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On March 31 2012 09:28 GloPikkle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 09:21 Pantythief wrote:On March 31 2012 09:19 GloPikkle wrote:On March 31 2012 09:17 Pantythief wrote:On March 31 2012 09:16 GloPikkle wrote:On March 31 2012 09:13 WArped wrote:
Surely he cannot be sentenced, for the good of all humanity.. this is ridiculous. I would argue for the good of all humanity, he should be sentenced. Internet harassment can be pretty damaging. Yeah you can just say "grow a pair", but what if it was your kid, or wife, or sibling, or gf, or anyone that you cared about being harassed incessantly and viciously online. Would you tell your loved one to "grow a pair"? Of course. Let me know how that goes for you. It's been going great thus far. As the mentally healthy being I am, I don't let random people on the internet get to me. That wasn't my point. Laws aren't meant to protect people who clearly do not need protecting. Good for you that you can handle it, I say that without sarcasm. Some people can't. Some people commit suicide over it. Or develop emotional pathologies. From your response, it's pretty clear that you're thinking about this completely self-centeredly, ie "well I wouldn't react that way, this is what I would do, and that's why I think that's how the world is". Try thinking about it from the perspective of not being you.
What is wrong with you? Stop being a dishonest asshole putting words into peoples mouths claiming arguments you have never formed while hiding behind the shield of false chivalry. I'm glad everyone else is was mature enough to ignore your comments and not start the massive flame war you are trying to start. If you have a point then MAKE IT. Then discuss it. Don't just litter the thread with all sorts of incoherent nonsense you grabbed out of thin air.
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On March 31 2012 12:07 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:55 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them. the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic. Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives. Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected
sexism is alive becuase people want it to be
the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females
females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble
if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear
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On March 31 2012 12:01 stevarius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:00 hypercube wrote:On March 31 2012 11:56 stevarius wrote:On March 31 2012 11:54 hypercube wrote:On March 31 2012 11:49 stevarius wrote:On March 31 2012 11:48 snailz wrote:On March 31 2012 11:47 stevarius wrote:On March 31 2012 11:44 McFeser wrote:On March 31 2012 11:33 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 11:32 Blasterion wrote:
[quote]
I disagree. People should be expect to act with a minimum level of class, and be punished if they act with lack of it. People should strive to be higher and higher class. These acts of lack of class shouldn't be tolerated and should be punished and made an example of. why? why do the people of "higher class" have the right to force there views and beliefs on us "lower class" people? He's not using the right word but he is right. Everyone should act with a minimum amount of decency if only because that is was the majority of people expect/want from others. I don't think anyone would argue that this man's acts were beneficial to anyone. Also, I generally assume the best in people but for those saying we don't need laws to tell people not to be dicks - we do. I would rather have laws then some culturally pressured restriction on what is right and what is wrong concerning public behavior. As for this man's actions, they are unacceptable within what is culturally acceptable and within legal boundaries (just the Korean laws though I'm sure if someone was shouting obscenities at me at the grocery store everyday, and waiting there to do so, I could get them in some sort of trouble). Now I don't think he should be put in prison for seven years. That's just stupid. But how anyone could defend him I don't know. Any American understands that this guy getting taken to civil court for being a dick is just retarded, but this is a different country we're talking about. You can't legislate good behavior. Good fucking luck trying. I don't defend his actions, but I will forever defend his right to be an asshole.... on American soil or at least a country that has sane laws involving some internet BM. so condescending... Condescending? No, American ideal of liberty. Be an asshole, but I have every right to be an asshole back within legal boundaries. You can't legislate morality. Jessica is a spaz. To the guy above: You won't find yourself in a courtroom for insulting your co-workers, but you will find yourself without a job. So if you have money you can influence social norms but the democratically elected government is explicitly forbidden. If that isn't a fallacious statement, I don't know what is. Laws can't enforce morality. Try all you must, but people will continue to be dicks on the internet. Not true. People are less likely to be dicks if they expect negative consequences. Not on the internet.
The reason Korea is having laws like this, is because they want you to be treated the same everywhere. Yeah, I know I can call you a fucktard on the internet, and if TL's mods were not so lovely I could write a PM that says that every single day (btw, I'm not calling you a fucktard). On a lot of websites I could get away with that and I could stalk/harass you all I want. Yeah, you could write that off as the internet, whatever, it shouldn't bug you, but I think the same behaviour that would get in trouble in real life should have the same consequences here.
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On March 31 2012 12:09 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:07 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 31 2012 11:55 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them. the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic. Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives. Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected sexism is alive becuase people want it to be the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear
Ummm what? How old are you dude? lol... You have to be trolling. No way you believe this crap. People WANT it to exist? The only people who do are those who are sexist... man... you are crazy.
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She can do whatever is within her right as far as I`m concerned. Why should anyone defend this stupid troll?
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On March 31 2012 12:09 McFeser wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:01 stevarius wrote:On March 31 2012 12:00 hypercube wrote:On March 31 2012 11:56 stevarius wrote:On March 31 2012 11:54 hypercube wrote:On March 31 2012 11:49 stevarius wrote:On March 31 2012 11:48 snailz wrote:On March 31 2012 11:47 stevarius wrote:On March 31 2012 11:44 McFeser wrote:On March 31 2012 11:33 Forikorder wrote:
[quote]
why?
why do the people of "higher class" have the right to force there views and beliefs on us "lower class" people? He's not using the right word but he is right. Everyone should act with a minimum amount of decency if only because that is was the majority of people expect/want from others. I don't think anyone would argue that this man's acts were beneficial to anyone. Also, I generally assume the best in people but for those saying we don't need laws to tell people not to be dicks - we do. I would rather have laws then some culturally pressured restriction on what is right and what is wrong concerning public behavior. As for this man's actions, they are unacceptable within what is culturally acceptable and within legal boundaries (just the Korean laws though I'm sure if someone was shouting obscenities at me at the grocery store everyday, and waiting there to do so, I could get them in some sort of trouble). Now I don't think he should be put in prison for seven years. That's just stupid. But how anyone could defend him I don't know. Any American understands that this guy getting taken to civil court for being a dick is just retarded, but this is a different country we're talking about. You can't legislate good behavior. Good fucking luck trying. I don't defend his actions, but I will forever defend his right to be an asshole.... on American soil or at least a country that has sane laws involving some internet BM. so condescending... Condescending? No, American ideal of liberty. Be an asshole, but I have every right to be an asshole back within legal boundaries. You can't legislate morality. Jessica is a spaz. To the guy above: You won't find yourself in a courtroom for insulting your co-workers, but you will find yourself without a job. So if you have money you can influence social norms but the democratically elected government is explicitly forbidden. If that isn't a fallacious statement, I don't know what is. Laws can't enforce morality. Try all you must, but people will continue to be dicks on the internet. Not true. People are less likely to be dicks if they expect negative consequences. Not on the internet. The reason Korea is having laws like this, is because they want you to be treated the same everywhere. Yeah, I know I can call you a fucktard on the internet, and if TL's mods were not so lovely I could write a PM that says that every single day (btw, I'm not calling you a fucktard). On a lot of websites I could get away with that and I could stalk/harass you all I want. Yeah, you could write that off as the internet, whatever, it shouldn't bug you, but I think the same behaviour that would get in trouble in real life should have the same consequences here.
wanna know what else he could do? jsut put you on his ignore list then he never has to see anything you write to him again
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On March 31 2012 12:04 INFDexter wrote:
1) Jessica should develop a thicker skin.
2) People shouldn't be dicks.
I agree, except with one slight difference...
1) People shouldn't be dicks
2) Jessica should develop a thicker skin
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On March 31 2012 12:04 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:58 tree.hugger wrote:
Do unto others... Or they'll sue you.
Fair. If its a persistent troll, then let a judge hash it out. the punishments for this kind of thing seem so out of wack though. in all these internet meets court situations the crimes are so poorly defined, and the judges normally illinformed that people get harsh punishments. if someone went to the police saying id been horrible to them, even with video evidence, i would barely get a slap on the wrists. probably a restraining order if i did it for months. op post says most options are jail time? just sounds stupid.
Oh, come on that's not true. Certainly not in the UK. The guy who left abusive messages on the memorial page of a kid who committed suicide got 18 weeks in jail.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-14894576
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On March 31 2012 12:10 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:09 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 12:07 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 31 2012 11:55 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them. the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic. Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives. Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected sexism is alive becuase people want it to be the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear Ummm what? How old are you dude? lol... You have to be trolling. No way you believe this crap. People WANT it to exist? The only people who do are those who are sexist... man... you are crazy.
women say they want to be treated the same as men, then they dont leave there houses without make-up, they say they want to be treated the same as men and then spend so much time and effort on there looks
they dont want to be treated like men they want to be treated better then men
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On March 31 2012 12:11 TheRealPaciFist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:04 INFDexter wrote:
1) Jessica should develop a thicker skin.
2) People shouldn't be dicks. I agree, except with one slight difference... 1) People shouldn't be dicks 2) Jessica should develop a thicker skin
QFT. And to all those people who say "just ban the person", the point is to reinforce proper conduct not cover the problem. Nice to know at least some people still value manners.
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On March 31 2012 12:10 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:09 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 12:07 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 31 2012 11:55 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them. the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic. Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives. Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected sexism is alive becuase people want it to be the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear Ummm what? How old are you dude? lol... You have to be trolling. No way you believe this crap. People WANT it to exist? The only people who do are those who are sexist... man... you are crazy.
he isnt wrong. Holding doors for women, paying for dinner for women, thats sexism because you're treating them differently due to their sex bits.
Prove this isnt so.
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On March 31 2012 12:09 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:07 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 31 2012 11:55 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them. the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic. Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives. Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected sexism is alive becuase people want it to be the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear
What? I can't tell if you are being serious. You are implying that no one discriminates based on gender. You can't possibly believe that... no one can be that ignorant, so can I assume you are a troll?
If you aren't implying that no one discriminates then why would it just go away? Sure if it was talked about less, we would hear about it less, but then the people who were already discriminating would be unopposed, and feel more comfortable to continue discriminating freely.
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On March 31 2012 12:07 sc2effort wrote:
this is craz rofl this could never ever happen in america rofl
User was warned for this post
No, in America its crazy people that sue big companies over the most retarded things ever (cat in microwave example)
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On March 31 2012 12:02 cscarfo1 wrote:
Suck. Jessica couldn't do stuff like this in the U.S. But since it's Korea, anything can happen T.T
I don't know about the US, but here in Canada there are definitely laws against verbal harassment, defamation and cyber bullying.
And honestly, I don't see a problem with that.
+ Show Spoiler +Cyberbullying can be addressed under civil law or criminal law, based on the situation.
Civil law: This is the branch of law that deals with property rights, personal dignity and freedom from injury. Under civil law, there are three approaches to cyberbullying:
A cyberbully may be engaged in defamation. This is when the bully causes harm to someone’s reputation by spreading false information about that person. In general, defamation that appears temporarily (as unrecorded speech or in a live broadcast) is called slander, and defamation that appears permanently (in a book or on a Web site) is called libel.
To be libellous a statement must: do harm to someone’s reputation, have a clear and obvious target, and be seen by people other than the person making the statement and the target.
In libel cases, the target can lay a suit against the person making the statement. If the suit is successful, the person making the statement will have to pay damages (money) to the target.
A person accused of libel may defend himself or herself by saying that the statement was true, that it was a fair comment (a genuine criticism, not a personal attack), or that he or she innocently reproduced the statement without knowing what it was.
A perpetrator may be creating an unsafe environment by making the target feel that she or he cannot go to school without facing violence, teasing or exclusion. Schools and workplaces are required to provide a safe environment for their students or employees, and must take any appropriate action to do so. A school, therefore, might punish a student for online behaviour that is making it hard for other students to learn in a safe environment. In Ontario, the Safe Schools Act has been changed to specifically include online behaviour: students can now be suspended or expelled for cyberbullying, even if it is done outside the school.
A school or workplace that does not do everything it can to provide a safe environment can be sued by the target(s). Even if a statement is not libellous, spreading it around might still create an unsafe environment.
Finally, a person is responsible for any consequences that he or she might reasonably have guessed would happen. Therefore, a perpetrator who suggests that a depressed student should kill herself would be liable if the student actually did kill herself, as long as the perpetrator had reason to believe it was a likely result.
Criminal law: This branch of law determines which actions are crimes against the state. In criminal law, there are two approaches to cyberbullying:
Harassment is a crime under the Criminal Code. Harassment is when something a person says or does makes someone fear for his or her safety, or for the safety of others. Even if the perpetrator did not intend to frighten someone, she or he can be charged with harassment if the target feels threatened. Criminal harassment is punishable by up to 10 years in prison.
Defamatory libel is a crime under the Criminal Code. It is most often treated as a crime if the libellous statement is directed against a person in authority and could seriously harm his or her reputation. Defamatory libel is punishable by up to five years in prison.
Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees freedom of expression. However, this right is guaranteed “subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society” and, in the case of cyberbullying, must be weighed against Section 7. The latter section guarantees “the right to life, liberty and security of the person.” In general, Section 2 of the Charter has not been accepted as a defence in civil or criminal bullying cases.
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Northern Ireland27471 Posts
On March 31 2012 12:09 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:07 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 31 2012 11:55 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them. the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic. Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives. Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected sexism is alive becuase people want it to be the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear
Perhaps, or perhaps putting your fingers in your ears and repeating 'lalala sexism isn't real will just bury whatever issues still remain to be resolved there. I'm not saying that women in liberal democracies have an awful time of it, but equally true parity between the sexes isn't there
I also fucking despise white knights, hence why I get tetchy when I'm called one. I'm nice to my girlfriend and female associates because, well I like them as people and. White knights as I perceive them tend to behave in a 'nice' manner with the intention of getting benefits at the end of it which makes their image as 'nice guys' completely illusory. They also whine like hell that a lot of women are actually wise to what they're up to and they don't get the vagina they so desire!
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On March 31 2012 12:07 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:55 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them. the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic. Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives. Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected
But this isn't about sexism this is about expecting a minimum level of class that a human being can have when acting in front of other people, internet or not.
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On March 31 2012 12:07 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:03 Luepert wrote:On March 31 2012 11:59 jinorazi wrote:On March 31 2012 11:57 Luepert wrote:
Do they have freedom of speech over there? as in are people allowed to harass an individual? yno, thats not allowed. Can you get arrested for walking around in a park for saying insults? No Streams have public chats, and unless specific rules are posted, speech shouldn't be prosecuted by the state especially when they have the power to just ban or kick they guy themselves. yes i'm sure you can get arrested or forcibly removed from the park for insulting people at a park. are you going to scream "freedom of speech" and cry injustice? this is avoidable if jessica was more tolerant but that isn't the issue here is it? she decided such troll/bm has gone far enough and decided to act upon it following korean laws. you seem to have a skewed idea of what "freedom of speech" means (like everyone other people that brings it up)
It wasn't like going up to someone and insulting them. It wasn't in her stream. Its like your insulting someone by you and the only thing they can do is call the cops and you can just stop, you can't be punished. Also they can be "forcibly removed" by ban.
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On March 31 2012 12:03 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:59 jinorazi wrote:On March 31 2012 11:57 Luepert wrote:
Do they have freedom of speech over there? as in are people allowed to harass an individual? yno, thats not allowed. Can you get arrested for walking around in a park for saying insults? No Streams have public chats, and unless specific rules are posted, speech shouldn't be prosecuted by the state especially when they have the power to just ban or kick they guy themselves.
I don't think this was a run of the mill troll she picked at random. It was a guy who was consistently insulting her.
Try following and insulting the same person all the time. How long until you're charged with harrassment?
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On March 31 2012 12:13 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:10 mrtomjones wrote:On March 31 2012 12:09 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 12:07 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 31 2012 11:55 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them. the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic. Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives. Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected sexism is alive becuase people want it to be the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear Ummm what? How old are you dude? lol... You have to be trolling. No way you believe this crap. People WANT it to exist? The only people who do are those who are sexist... man... you are crazy. he isnt wrong. Holding doors for women, paying for dinner for women, thats sexism because you're treating them differently due to their sex bits. Prove this isnt so.
How about it's just good manners to do so. Shows you have class, a minimum level of decency to treat women with respect.
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EPT
