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On March 31 2012 11:21 Zennith wrote:
I'm just baffled by how many people support this. Freedom of speech is so important, I don't understand how anyone can believe otherwise?
freedom of speech is important. so should trolls doing everything they can to harm someone's reputation, finance and emotion be allowed with no consequences?
intentional trolling with means to do damage, isn't freedom of speech.
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orb comparison is actually best thing in this thread.
because racism is big in america, orb gets linched, literally.
but when an inocent woman is being called a cunt and deals with it within her power, she's a self righteus bitch and saying stuff like that is okay.
racism, N word = no no
sexism, C word = why not
it's so sad to read such things...
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On March 31 2012 11:06 Blasterion wrote:
Well let's not support cyber defamation, since that'll lower us to the level of the Fighting game community, and you wouldn't want to do that, Whether this is the right solution though, that's another thing, but to out right criticize Jessica for punishing Cyber defamation will make us seem as if we support it.
Everyone needs to first, disagree with cyber defamation then Criticize Jessica.
Omitting the first step of the proper process will come back to bite ourselves in the ass
Any "defamation" is bad. But most people should be intelligent enough to see that its a lie or troll, irl or on the net. Additionally, Jessica makes herself a target by being attention seeking and dramatic. its kind of stupid that society needs laws that protect people from each other, instead of holding people responsible for ignoring and shunning dicks.
The law that grew out of people committing suicide over such words indicates that those who killed themselves were not in control of their behavior, but being controlled by another person's behavior. It's counter to the idea that people are responsible for themselves.
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On March 31 2012 11:23 snailz wrote:
orb comparison is actually best thing in this thread.
because racism is big in america, orb gets linched, literally.
but when a inocent woman is being called a cunt and deals with it within her power, she's a self righteus bitch and saying stuff like that is okay.
racism, N word = no no
sexism, C word = why not
it's so sad to read such things...
I was wrong to expect more class from the SC2 community than the fighting game community. BW community would've never stood for this shit. Now I know why BW community gets preference now, they just have more class.
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On March 31 2012 11:19 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:18 gwaihir wrote:On March 31 2012 11:14 ch33psh33p wrote:On March 31 2012 11:12 ProBot wrote:On March 31 2012 10:32 Capulet wrote:On March 31 2012 10:15 ProBot wrote:
still don't think it's stupid one thing about the internet is people say ignorant shit because there's really no accountability for anything they say ... now there is and maybe some idiots will think twice about being idiots / degrading or whatever. I completely agree with this. The amount of hostility found on the internet is becoming absurd and it's about time people are held accountable for their actions. Contrary to popular belief, simply brushing hate messages aside by labeling it "rage" or "trolling" does not make it any more acceptable. Although, I feel that the community might be more receptive to this whole suing ordeal if it wasn't Jessica who is doing it... It's kinda funny tho, community defends the dude for calling her a whore / slut or whatever yet lynch orb for saying "nigger". This community is fucked. Exactly what I came in here to say. Sexism, racism, ethnocentrism, or whatever you want to call it. This community is fucked up beyond belief. thats retarded shit....nobody defends him....people are just wondering why the fuck you would sue somebody for that....would you sue someone who calls you a cocksucking nigger gay???....no you wouldnt, you would just laugh at this pathetic human being.... "defending" you must be kiddin......... what if that person fabricated evidence to prove you're a "cocksucking nigger gay", harass you on daily bases and the people around you. you'll still just sit by and take it?
that is much different, that would be harassment and would by necessity require multiple forums of communication in order to spread the evidence and harass the people around you
the dude was on a chat system, its easy to ban people on chat systems maybe instead of suing this person Jessica should find a good moderator
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Canada4020 Posts
On March 31 2012 11:24 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:23 snailz wrote:
orb comparison is actually best thing in this thread.
because racism is big in america, orb gets linched, literally.
but when a inocent woman is being called a cunt and deals with it within her power, she's a self righteus bitch and saying stuff like that is okay.
racism, N word = no no
sexism, C word = why not
it's so sad to read such things... I was wrong to expect more class from the SC2 community than the fighting game community. BW community would've never stood for this shit. Now I know why BW community gets preference now, they just have more class.
Half the people on here are from BW  at least a 1/4 These children are just judging her because of her past and such which is stupid.
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On March 31 2012 11:20 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:19 Gheed wrote:On March 31 2012 11:17 Blasterion wrote:On March 31 2012 11:15 Roe wrote:On March 31 2012 11:07 Goldfish wrote:On March 31 2012 10:47 Whitewing wrote:On March 31 2012 10:44 callthecops wrote:
If you seriously want to make a person pay up to 44,000 dollars and possibly spend 7 years in prison just because your feelings were hurt online, you don't deserve to exist. If you want to risk 44,000 dollars and risk spending 7 years in prison just to hurt someone's feelings, you don't deserve to exist. See what I did there? This guy knew the law, he knew the risks of what he was doing, and he went ahead and did it anyway. He wanted to insult Jessica THAT badly? Agreed. Similar lawsuits against people trolling on the internet has happened countless times in SK before. Heck, even KT almost sued someone for flaming Flash.These things are serious business in South Korea, and these people should have known better. That doesn't mean the law is right. I mean come on, would you argue against someone who is fighting a racist or misogynistic government who enforces the law in kind? "But that black person should've known better than to sit at the front of the bus...the country has laws for segregation and she should obey them." I think we should all be able to agree these status quo kinds of statements are void in this argument and serve no purpose. It is right, if the law makes people be less dickery and have higher class it helps the image of the community as a whole, I can't believe all the people defending this crap. Have you not learned your lesson on what happened to the fighting game community? If we've reached the point as a society where we need the law to stop people from hurting other people's feelings, I'd say something has gone awry. If we've reached the point as a society when people are allowed to be dicks as much as they want, I'd say something has gone awry.
I disagree. You should be able to act the way you'd like. Punishments shouldn't be serious for offending people with harmless words.
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Canada13379 Posts
On March 31 2012 11:23 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:21 Zennith wrote:
I'm just baffled by how many people support this. Freedom of speech is so important, I don't understand how anyone can believe otherwise? freedom of speech is important. so should trolls doing everything they can to harm someone's reputation, finance and emotion be allowed with no consequences? intentional trolling with means to do damage, isn't freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech, In my opinion, is very different from being a sexist person on the internet moving into directed personal comments towards a specific woman publicly.
Its ok to say and think what you want, but when that starts to infringe upon others rights its not ok.
No one was saying freedom of speech for Orb and the N word so no one should be saying freedom of speech for this guy and his use of the C word.
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On March 31 2012 11:14 UTL_Unlimited wrote:I don't understand a lot of the statements here saying Jessica being Jessica. I feel that this issue was addressed in previous cases when Jessica was protecting Eve and other such issues. In Korea, the #1 most wired country in the world, views the internet as a place where ideas and such as shared. Korea is connected with the fastest internet as is because the government strictly promotes the connection throughout the country. Therefore, Korea truly believes in the idea that people should be at least protected for the ideas that they share through the medium. The laws regarding Korea exists as such because of the fact that in the past, numerous issues arose due TO the 'trolling' that people have done to others in the past. Koreans can be extremely harsh when they wish to be and while others argue that words do not hurt, in reality, they do. A very popular example would be the gay Korean celebrity : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Ji-hoohttp://www.fridae.asia/newsfeatures/2008/10/09/2137.2-openly-gay-trans-south-korean-actors-commit-suicideA lot of these issues came about due to a medium such as the internet committing internet bullying. Of course this is a much different example and a lesser one in comparison to the own3d 'troll', but the reactions is due to the fact that Jessica, as a celebrity, knows about the growing issue with things such as this and she wants to stop it before it blows out of proportion. This isn't her just 'losing her cool to a troll', this is a serious issue in a DIFFERENT culture that has plagued our society for quite some time. She was a celebrity, she is now into esports, and I think these actions imply that she wants to at least help impede the growth of these kinds of 'offensive trolling'. Besides, the actual text, in our culture, really is offensive. The guy basically wrote: JESSICA! SHOW ME YOUR PUSSY! HURRY THE FUCK UP I WANT TO BANG YOU! some are blurred out but it implies hurry up or the generic death threats and the like. Here's another one: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/01/world/la-fg-korea-cyberthugs2-2010jan02Korea, due to it being the wired country it is, suffers from these cases much more in comparison to other countries such as the United States. Certainly the US is different and have different standards, but Korea has recognized the problem from the early stages. Therefore, you NEED to have social security ID to sign up to forums, play games like Starcraft, and the like. I'm not at all saying that the United States need to step it up because the culture is different and the art of 'trolling' is seen as a 'gesture of fun' while in Korea, we don't take such things as jokes when it is presented in the context that it has been in the chat. This guy fully understood what he was getting into with his background and even if he did it as a 'joke', I hardly think such comments are appropriate enough to be a joke. Maybe saying: GO BACK TO THE KITCHEN would have been a better troll. Another way to look at this is of Orb: If him saying nigger is something that everyone was up and in arms about due to his position, why can't Jessica do the same for someone insulting her as she was? Is it just because that person is not important at all that it is fair? So someone who is at a lower status in the community shouldn't be held account for the actions that he or she has taken? And if so, why not? Are they of lesser importance to anyone else? I understand that the world views the internet as a place of anonymity and thus we shouldn't take every offensive thing seriously. But if we, as Team Liquid members, were to all act kindly to one another through this different medium of communication, then maybe such issues would at least recede a little. Day[9] stated in regards to Orb's situation that there's different ways to express one's frustration or anger or the such through the internet by saying the generic cuss words, but he also mentioned that if everyone was just nice to one another, these issues wouldn't happen. So I ask that before you put in the: it's just Jessica being Jessica or she's being overdramatic, consider the culture difference and the way we treat this different medium of communication and keep in mind that there are different history and developments with the internet than other places. If you believe that words are simply words and saying bad things shouldn't matter, then for all things go ahead. But at least try and be in the other's shoes and understand others may take more offense and lead to the extreme cases that exist today. We can't deny that the extremes don't exist: but to assume that one's single action wouldn't lead to the worst is certainly a bit of a irresponsible belief. I hope that this post at least have people think of the other side and understand that the issue is bigger than the immediate bandwagon jump of: it's just Jessica being Jessica.
its understandable, but what if you are one of the many millions of people who dont agree that what you say or do or troll should be moderated so strongly by law? what if you want the freedom to make religious jokes (illegal in some places) or use words like nigger because they dont mean anything to you (illegal in some places) or that you want to type swear words in your own public forum (soon to be illegal) or that you want to read books depicting rape scenes or schoolgirl romance ?
now you have a law where you cant tell someone to go fuck themselves or stick their dick up their own asshole . there is harrassment (a serious crime), there is social/cultural moderation (admin bans, admin censorship buttons, squelches and outcasting people from forums), but now you have also Laws to control further and further what people can and cant think or do or say
one day it will be illegal to swear in public street incase a child (or actually an adult) hears you and gets offended. i mean, not just "dont swear infront of policemen" illegal...but people fucking reporting you to the police or taking out personal law suits against you for this harassment to their precious and increasingly vulnerable earholes
progression is finding solutions to problems....it is not suppression by law but through understanding, adaptation and compromise.
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On March 31 2012 11:26 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:23 jinorazi wrote:On March 31 2012 11:21 Zennith wrote:
I'm just baffled by how many people support this. Freedom of speech is so important, I don't understand how anyone can believe otherwise? freedom of speech is important. so should trolls doing everything they can to harm someone's reputation, finance and emotion be allowed with no consequences? intentional trolling with means to do damage, isn't freedom of speech. Freedom of speech, In my opinion, is very different from being a sexist person on the internet moving into directed personal comments towards a specific woman publicly. Its ok to say and think what you want, but when that starts to infringe upon others rights its not ok. No one was saying freedom of speech for Orb and the N word so no one should be saying freedom of speech for this guy and his use of the C word.
Actually, plenty of people were arguing that they didn't care what orb called people on the ladder.
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Um... well... considering its Jessica I guess... well actually no, this is still uncalled for.
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On March 31 2012 08:39 Golgotha wrote:
why didnt they just ban him? can own3d not do that? jessica please dont do this, you are making boxer look bad.
Exactly what I was thinking. Definitely Jessica being Jessica. When the problem can be solved with a click of a button but isn't its obvious that someone is seeking drama. However, I don't know why anyone would say that to her, she is such a cutie <3
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I remember when i first started researching politics i was like damn USA sucks! Then I learned about EU and the other shitty countries and I am so glad i live here  . This shit wouldn't even come close to being tolerated here in the states where we carry posters of our presidents with hitler mustaches.
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Northern Ireland23942 Posts
On March 31 2012 11:11 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 31 2012 10:53 Roe wrote:On March 31 2012 10:50 Wombat_NI wrote:
Constitutional freedom of speech does not mean you can say whatever you want, about anything and needlessly hurl abuse at people. Libel law, hate speech laws etc exist already that restrict 100%, no-holds-barred free speech. This notion that we have an inalienable right to say whatever we want, that is so often used in justification for abhorrent, obnoxious behaviour is just false.
I want to isolate this paragraph. You didn't even give an argument as to why the status quo is superior, other than the fact that anti-speech laws are good because they are the status quo. Would you mind elaborating on why those laws are good to have? I didn't say they were good to have or not actually, although my habit of not re-reading my posts is a bad one! For example I disagree with laws like holocaust denial laws in Germany/France and elsewhere in Europe. I don't personally feel that legal prevention of making such idiotic points is productive, as the proponents of holocaust denial make themselves look stupid. In essence the flow of my point was. 'We have free speech I can say what I want' is used as a justification for obnoxious behaviour, oblivious to the multitude of pre-existing laws that restrict speech to some, however just/unjust they may be. No country in the Western world that I am aware of has 100%, unrestricted free speech, it's a fantasy. To invoke this false concept of what is covered as free speech requires either disingenuity or ignorance on the part of whoever is acting in this way. It's a matter of human decency and decorum I guess, the internet is still not particularly regulated so there's a culture of acting with impunity so the onus is on internet communities themselves to self-regulate and get rid of the trash. It's for that reason that posts like 'oh it's the internet' piss me off, what's wrong with suggesting improvement? If every time you went out in the street people came up to your face and screamed abuse about your appearance/sexual orientation/race etc etc it'd be intolerable so why should online interaction be conducted in such a manner? But the internet doesn't need to be regulated by government. It can be regulated by itself. In this case, Jessica has the power to regulate her own chat room and IP ban the person.
In this individual case that would be the prudent course of action that I myself would have pursued. Not knowing the actual content of the material I can only speculate, perhaps it included personal details or something she didn't want in the public domain. Probably not the case as I'd assume putting someone's phone number or address online would fall under other laws dealing with those specifically.
The internet CAN self regulate, and should but it doesn't. Comments like 'oh if you don't want spammed and personally abused, get off the internet' don't bode augur well for the certain internet communities moving up from cesspool status anytime soon. Korean law on this is probably well-known, I mean prior to this I was aware that internet useage was more tightly regulated in that sense, so I doubt native Koreans are ignorant on this point. Bear in mind I am assuming the guy is Korean as he's being sued under laws pertaining to that state, if I'm wrong on this I apologise.
On a point unrelated to yours, there seems to be a diversion into other territories completely unrelated to the OP. For example, cultural relativism regarding things like FGM in Africa. Freedom of speech to criticise a practice like that is generally protected/accepted. It's a personal position, on an actual, material issue. Jessica was subjected to personal abuse directed at her person, of an explicit manner that appears to be unrelated to anything in particular.
I can have a hearty, back-and-forth debate on the benefits of universal healthcare, or how much I dislike a sports team and it's never going to be an issue that gives me personal pause for thought no matter how aggressively it is discussed. If however I go up to somebody and call them a cunt, or mail somebody explict abuse, why should that be protected speech? It's aggressive behaviour, but with no particular end goal/issue that is motivating it. Free speech regarding issues/practices is part of healthy discourse. and personal. I draw a distinction when it comes to personal, malicious abuse with no validity besides amusing the abuser for eliciting a response.
The latter paragraph is just my own personal view on how I'd conduct myself online or whatever by the way, not something I think should necessarily be legislated for.
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Isn't it normal for people to get angry when you hear that words or read it?
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On March 31 2012 11:26 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:23 jinorazi wrote:On March 31 2012 11:21 Zennith wrote:
I'm just baffled by how many people support this. Freedom of speech is so important, I don't understand how anyone can believe otherwise? freedom of speech is important. so should trolls doing everything they can to harm someone's reputation, finance and emotion be allowed with no consequences? intentional trolling with means to do damage, isn't freedom of speech. Freedom of speech, In my opinion, is very different from being a sexist person on the internet moving into directed personal comments towards a specific woman publicly. Its ok to say and think what you want, but when that starts to infringe upon others rights its not ok. No one was saying freedom of speech for Orb and the N word so no one should be saying freedom of speech for this guy and his use of the C word.
actually some people almost certainly said freedom of speech for orb
and theres a difference between a known community celebrity and a random chat troll
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On March 31 2012 11:26 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:23 jinorazi wrote:On March 31 2012 11:21 Zennith wrote:
I'm just baffled by how many people support this. Freedom of speech is so important, I don't understand how anyone can believe otherwise? freedom of speech is important. so should trolls doing everything they can to harm someone's reputation, finance and emotion be allowed with no consequences? intentional trolling with means to do damage, isn't freedom of speech. Freedom of speech, In my opinion, is very different from being a sexist person on the internet moving into directed personal comments towards a specific woman publicly. Its ok to say and think what you want, but when that starts to infringe upon others rights its not ok. No one was saying freedom of speech for Orb and the N word so no one should be saying freedom of speech for this guy and his use of the C word.
More people were mad at Orb for lying about it than for actually saying it.
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On March 31 2012 11:23 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:21 Zennith wrote:
I'm just baffled by how many people support this. Freedom of speech is so important, I don't understand how anyone can believe otherwise? freedom of speech is important. so should trolls doing everything they can to harm someone's reputation, finance and emotion be allowed with no consequences? intentional trolling with means to do damage, isn't freedom of speech.
did you believe what the troll said?
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haha i like this, hope she wins, but ignoring them is still the best cure to this disease, sadly everyone has to ignore them and there are to many white knights, that have to state their opinion. But an active clean up team is also quiet effective.
But some replies are interesting, basically the same thing, just different words, but a really heavily changed opinion on it.
Since it went public so fast, its obviously a scare tactic though. So no real drama or anything, just cold calculation.
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On March 31 2012 11:16 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:12 ProBot wrote:On March 31 2012 10:32 Capulet wrote:On March 31 2012 10:15 ProBot wrote:
still don't think it's stupid one thing about the internet is people say ignorant shit because there's really no accountability for anything they say ... now there is and maybe some idiots will think twice about being idiots / degrading or whatever. I completely agree with this. The amount of hostility found on the internet is becoming absurd and it's about time people are held accountable for their actions. Contrary to popular belief, simply brushing hate messages aside by labeling it "rage" or "trolling" does not make it any more acceptable. Although, I feel that the community might be more receptive to this whole suing ordeal if it wasn't Jessica who is doing it... It's kinda funny tho, community defends the dude for calling her a whore / slut or whatever yet lynch orb for saying "nigger". This community is fucked. It's not at all funny or witty observation. Was Orb sued or sent to jail?
I'ld saying losing his job and any rep he had in the community was quite substantial so yeah both cases are relevant, your argument ... not so much.
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