EPTLarva disappearing Glitch in 1.5 (not about 20th larva) -…
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Gelenn
United States87 Posts
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
On March 25 2012 07:13 kcdc wrote: No. The hatchery doesn't do the auto-spawn in that situation because it's already at 3+ larvae. If the inject happens right before the auto-spawn and you don't spend the larvae to get the standing larvae under 3, then it will skip that auto-spawn. It's not a bug--hatcheries just don't spawn larvae when there are already 4 sitting there. Because a ton of you seemed to have not read the first page. This isn't a bug, it's working as intended. I'm going to assume if the animation for the auto-spawn larva starts before the inject larva animation, then it will indeed spawn. | ||
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lpunatic
235 Posts
 Scenario 1: larva pops before spawn larva animation, no problem Scenario 2: larva would pop after spawn larva animation, pops as soon as excess larva is spent, no problem Scenario 3: larva that should pop during spawn larva animation doesn't pop, not even when excess larva is spent. Bug. Edit: scenario 3 only applies to the single larva that should have spawned when the excess larva was spent. | ||
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gondolin
France332 Posts
On March 25 2012 11:57 Uncultured wrote: Because a ton of you seemed to have not read the first page. This isn't a bug, it's working as intended. I'm going to assume if the animation for the auto-spawn larva starts before the inject larva animation, then it will indeed spawn. You did not understand the OP The OP says that if a "natural" larva spans during the animation of the "queen" larvas, then this larva disappear. This is not the same as the fact that the hatchery larva timer is paused when there is 4+ larva at the hatchery. | ||
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VictorJones
United States235 Posts
EDIT: Yeah okay, it's been said. I suppose they should change the hatchery animation for the sake of consistency if it really matters.. lol | ||
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
On March 25 2012 12:03 gondolin wrote: You did not understand the OP The OP says that if a "natural" larva spans during the animation of the "queen" larvas, then this larva disappear. This is not the same as the fact that the hatchery larva timer is paused when there is 4+ larva at the hatchery.I'm having a hard time noticing where you draw the distinction between larva in animation to pop, and larva already on the ground. Are you saying you think the "count" of the larva shouldn't be effective till the animation is completed, because this would arbitrarily change nothing but an extremely tiny buff given to zergs all because it "should" be that way? I assure you blizzard does balance around hypothetical potential larva counts that generate at a certain speed. This doesn't all of the sudden throw a wrench into the balance of the game, like it was just an unseen hindrance. If anything it's another opportunity to get better at the game. | ||
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Phyrful
United States248 Posts
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
But, you documented it too well. You know people can't read and comprehend all that text. | ||
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gondolin
France332 Posts
On March 25 2012 12:13 Uncultured wrote: I'm having a hard time noticing where you draw the distinction between larva in animation to pop, and larva already on the ground. Are you saying you think the "count" of the larva shouldn't be effective till the animation is completed, because this would arbitrarily change nothing but an extremely tiny buff given to zergs all because it "should" be that way? I assure you blizzard does balance around hypothetical potential larva counts that generate at a certain speed. This doesn't all of the sudden throw a wrench into the balance of the game, like it was just an unseen hindrance. If anything it's another opportunity to get better at the game. Ok let's see it this way: during the time it takes for the larvas injected by the queen to spawn, the hatchery naturally generates 4 larvaes. So (assuming you consume them all) after the larva spawn you have used 8 larvas in total. The 9th will appear 15s later. Well there is a bug where sometimes only 7 larvas have spawned rather than 8. The 8th (which should have been the 9th) will appear 15s later, so there is really a lost larva. | ||
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SDream
Brazil896 Posts
But I did confirm everything, even the bug. So, I will post this on official forums soon if you don't do it yourself pretty soon. Edit: Posted here: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4253897379 If you want to clarify anything in the battle.net forums, you can and should post there, PM me here on teamliquid if you want me to edit anything I wrote there. Thanks again for your finding. | ||
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JoeBot
Australia8 Posts
Im sure terran and protoss players would love having a miscellaneous percentage of units not pop out of their production facilities after unit completion (with no loss of resources at the start of production). This would be the non-zerg equivalent. As it stands it can actually benefit a zerg player to inject larvae at a later time to avoid this glitch (Case L) so there is no real balance reason that it shouldn't be fixed. | ||
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
I wonder if they will patch it. | ||
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nakedsurfer
Canada500 Posts
On March 25 2012 12:03 VictorJones wrote: If you wait like 1.6 seconds after your larva pop before injecting again, you get slightly higher larva output. This isn't a problem. It separates the great zergs from the slightly greater zergs EDIT: Yeah okay, it's been said. I suppose they should change the hatchery animation for the sake of consistency if it really matters.. lol Actually, If you're going to make players wait a few seconds before every inject then it doesn't sound like you're encouraging better play. An amazing zerg player is one that can keep up with the injects everytime it pops. This glitch, if anything, rewards players who can't keep up with zerg macro because they get the extra larvae and not the better player(the one who is spot on with injects). In my eyes, it'd be harder to keep up perfectly with the injects rather than keeping the glitch and giving the player a 2 second leeway to get around to it since it'd be "better" to do anyway. So even though this glitch isn't balance breaking, this only really hurts the better player since they should be on top of their macro and the lesser player gets rewarded. Again, it should be about perfect spot on play and not oh just take your time to do it since you actually get a bonus for being the slower player EDIT: On March 25 2012 14:10 Baum wrote: The non-zerg equivalent is Mules mining and waisting 30 minerals when they don't return their last trip. You can avoid that by pulling them away before that just like you can time your inject correctly. As said things like this only make the game deeper and they don't matter at all at the level most of us are playing at. In fact there should be more things like this. I don't understand how people keep relating these topics. They are nothing similar. You're essentially making the zerg player wait 2 seconds per inject. That makes the injects slower on all hatcheries. Which makes all units coming from the larvae injecting come out slower. You're basically saying if you want an extra larva(per hatch) you must be slower at what you do and let your queens build up some energy. If there is 4 hatches and the player is playing perfectly, they will lose 4 larvae. But if they are not playing perfectly, then they can end up with 4 more larvae. The closest you can compare is like every warp-in, you must wait 2 seconds before warping things in again after the cooldown. If you don't, one of your gates won't work for a cycle of warp-in. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9104 Posts
On March 25 2012 14:10 Baum wrote: The non-zerg equivalent is Mules mining and waisting 30 minerals when they don't return their last trip. You can avoid that by pulling them away before that just like you can time your inject correctly. As said things like this only make the game deeper and they don't matter at all at the level most of us are playing at. In fact there should be more things like this. No, what the OP posted about is a real bug. The mule thing isn't a bug in any sense of the word. If you micro properly you can have the mule not waste those 30 minerals or I believe if they are on a close enough patch they will be able to return it. It took me a really long time to figure out what the OP was saying. I think an easier way of explaining it might be: 1. hatchery larvae generation is on a time counter 2. when the hatchery has 3 or more larvae this timer is paused 3. for some odd reason if the spawn larvae pops at the same time as the larvae generation then the timer is reset, when it should actually pop the larvae as soon and there are fewer than 3 larvae remaining, hence robbing the z player of a larvae they should have | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On March 25 2012 13:59 JoeBot wrote: Nice bug find. Im sure terran and protoss players would love having a miscellaneous percentage of units not pop out of their production facilities after unit completion (with no loss of resources at the start of production). This would be the non-zerg equivalent. As it stands it can actually benefit a zerg player to inject larvae at a later time to avoid this glitch (Case L) so there is no real balance reason that it shouldn't be fixed. Yes, one every 6 minutes for every base they have up, and it's always a worker. This is hardly noticeable. While it should be patched for the sake of consistency, this is not even remotely a balance issue. Zerg players always build their more expensive units first, so this will be almost entirely limited to Zerglings and Drones. One less Drone or pair of Zerglings per base for every six minutes is NOT going to make a noticeable difference, and any Zerg players saying so don't understand the game. | ||
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On March 25 2012 06:47 Orek wrote: Everything, with the exception of Queen, is morphed from a larva that spawns from Hatchery. not everything. you don't need to use larvae to create broodlings, which can even come from your first hatch | ||
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JoeBot
Australia8 Posts
On March 25 2012 14:27 Acritter wrote: Yes, one every 6 minutes for every base they have up, and it's always a worker. This is hardly noticeable. While it should be patched for the sake of consistency, this is not even remotely a balance issue. Zerg players always build their more expensive units first, so this will be almost entirely limited to Zerglings and Drones. One less Drone or pair of Zerglings per base for every six minutes is NOT going to make a noticeable difference, and any Zerg players saying so don't understand the game. It is more inclined to effect lower cost units, yes. Since this is the most common instance where all larvae is depleted. But it is possible to run out of larvae on higher cost units (where each unit has a bigger impact). And it also can effect the requirement of macro hatcheries. But overall the change is indeed insignificant (otherwise it would have been noticed sooner). | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On March 25 2012 14:46 JoeBot wrote: It is more inclined to effect lower cost units, yes. Since this is the most common instance where all larvae is depleted. But it is possible to run out of larvae on higher cost units (where each unit has a bigger impact). And it also can effect the requirement of macro hatcheries. But overall the change is indeed insignificant (otherwise it would have been noticed sooner). By the time you're making those high-cost units, you ought to have enough Hatcheries that you SHOULDN'T be able to deplete your larvae with them. At least, if you've been macroing properly, which turns this into a macro issue and not a balance issue. The most expensive units I see this ever being a problem with are Mutas, and one Muta more or less in the midgame is not going to be absolutely gamechanging. The only time this could EVER have a significant effect on the game is the 7RR. | ||
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