|
Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 10 2012 08:16 threshy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:09 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 08:05 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 08:01 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 07:57 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 07:52 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 07:33 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 07:30 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 07:26 Soma Cruz wrote:On March 10 2012 07:16 threshy wrote:
[quote]
If times have changed, why do so many people persist in using racist language? It's not as though times changing makes the language less racist (if you think it does, please explain your reasoning).
Edit: note that I agree that times have changed in some ways--I just don't see how that's relevant here. As time goes on, words begin to change. Like faggot. It used to be a bundle of sticks, then it's a word for gay people, now people also use it synonymously with other insults. It really boggles my mind how people here (which are mostly suburban white dudes) get offended over a straight word. It really boggles my mine how heterosexual people think their in a position to say whether or not faggot is an offensive word. agreed lol It's because they've made some preliminary philosophical discoveries about how signifiers are not externally motivated and apply in arbitrary fashion to their signifieds, don't examine this discovery in any rigorous fashion and conclude "words mean whatever man" and use this as an excuse not to examine their own actions and/or the social power of language. It's pathetic. You're giving a transparently post-hoc rationalization borne directly out of cognitive dissonance far too much credit. (Though I don't blame you for wanting to believe these people are capable of more.) What? I'm not giving these people any credit, I'm calling them fools. They explicitly make the arbitrariness of signifiers argument in their blatherings, although they don't know enough to call it that. Sorry if I seemed combative. I disagree with you only to the extent that you think these people are thinking this through at all. I don't think there's any kernel of an idea under their arguments except "I can't be accountable for this." Otherwise I've generally enjoyed your posts in this thread, so, again, sorry! NP I was just confused :D There's generally two camps of apologists. The first are the basements dwellers and the second are the people who try to pursue the "if you are offended you give the word power" line, which is total bs. I'm referring to the second camp here. Yeah. Those in the second group strike me as simply disingenuous. The argument can't survive even cursory disinterested scrutiny. They're just offering up the nonsense that cognitive dissonance flushes into their heads when confronted with their irreconcilable positions that (1) there is a good reason to be using racist language, but (2) they are not racist. But maybe we're saying the same thing at this point?
The pretentious condescension in this post is literally awe-inspiring. The constant assumptions you make about the people who disagree with you make me think you have some severe hypocritical prejudices against people on the internet who may not have the same paradigm as you.
|
On March 10 2012 08:16 threshy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:09 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 08:05 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 08:01 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 07:57 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 07:52 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 07:33 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 07:30 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 07:26 Soma Cruz wrote:On March 10 2012 07:16 threshy wrote:
[quote]
If times have changed, why do so many people persist in using racist language? It's not as though times changing makes the language less racist (if you think it does, please explain your reasoning).
Edit: note that I agree that times have changed in some ways--I just don't see how that's relevant here. As time goes on, words begin to change. Like faggot. It used to be a bundle of sticks, then it's a word for gay people, now people also use it synonymously with other insults. It really boggles my mind how people here (which are mostly suburban white dudes) get offended over a straight word. It really boggles my mine how heterosexual people think their in a position to say whether or not faggot is an offensive word. agreed lol It's because they've made some preliminary philosophical discoveries about how signifiers are not externally motivated and apply in arbitrary fashion to their signifieds, don't examine this discovery in any rigorous fashion and conclude "words mean whatever man" and use this as an excuse not to examine their own actions and/or the social power of language. It's pathetic. You're giving a transparently post-hoc rationalization borne directly out of cognitive dissonance far too much credit. (Though I don't blame you for wanting to believe these people are capable of more.) What? I'm not giving these people any credit, I'm calling them fools. They explicitly make the arbitrariness of signifiers argument in their blatherings, although they don't know enough to call it that. Sorry if I seemed combative. I disagree with you only to the extent that you think these people are thinking this through at all. I don't think there's any kernel of an idea under their arguments except "I can't be accountable for this." Otherwise I've generally enjoyed your posts in this thread, so, again, sorry! NP I was just confused :D There's generally two camps of apologists. The first are the basements dwellers and the second are the people who try to pursue the "if you are offended you give the word power" line, which is total bs. I'm referring to the second camp here. Yeah. Those in the second group strike me as simply disingenuous. The argument can't survive even cursory disinterested scrutiny. They're just offering up the nonsense that cognitive dissonance flushes into their heads when confronted with their irreconcilable positions that (1) there is a good reason to be using racist language, but (2) they are not racist. But maybe we're saying the same thing at this point?
We're in agreement. There's a good example in the post directly above yours.
|
I really miss the days of gaming where you could speak your mind and act like a human being, without red tape and censorship everywhere. I am proud to admit that I speak extremely foul, vulgar and hateful, and I will never, ever change who I am or my speech patterns to please anybody, regardless of how big the paycheck becomes.
As a Personal Statement: Yes, Alex, I do own Evil Geniuses apparel. So don't take my statement as if I hate your company or you. I just don't respect your decision whatsoever, because I too am a very educated man, and my view on speech is an inverse-correlation to your linear mindset of speech and human behavior. Sorry to say.
Best of luck to Orb. He was my third favorite non-Korean caster.
|
On March 10 2012 08:16 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:12 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 08:11 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 08:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 07:57 SeraKuDA wrote:On March 10 2012 07:16 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 07:10 SeraKuDA wrote:
Oh what the hell... I don't even like orb's casting, but I feel sympathetic for him here. Who gives a shit about random words like that? It's not like we live in the 1950s. Times have changed. People are oversensitive sometimes, and they need to grow up. If you can't even say the word, let alone spell it I think you have a problem. If times have changed, why do so many people persist in using racist language? It's not as though times changing makes the language less racist (if you think it does, please explain your reasoning). Edit: note that I agree that times have changed in some ways--I just don't see how that's relevant here. Times have changed in the sense that the words don't have the same connotation to them. None of us grew up during slavery, and only our parents, and grandparents have a real understanding of what it was like to live in a very racist era. This is a new time, new generation, and our culture is diversified. The words don't carry the same weight they once did, and thus when spoken people generally aren't offended. It's the select few, the sensitive ones, that cry out over the use of them. Those people are the problem-starters. You know what? Fuck you and people like you who willfully remain grossly ignorant of the world in which we live. Try growing up as a minority. We have a very real understanding of what it's like to grow up in a very racist era. Would you like an example? When my family went to a restaurant during pride week in my city my father would not go to the bathroom by himself because "he didn't want the faggots doing anything to him in there." I am not being overly sensitive. I am reacting to a word that is regularly thrown in my face with hatred and vitriol. If you legitimately believe that nigger means the same thing today that it did 20 years ago you're completely lost. It doesn't have to mean the same thing in order to still be off limits. It's a word. Some people make a big deal out of it... Me making a noise with my mouth doesn't give you the right to attack me or something. It may bug you, but learn to deal with it because it's just a word that isn't harming you. There's a difference in calling someone a nigger and actually treating them differently because of skin color.
People "deal with it" by labeling those who use racist language as racists and drawing reasonable assumptions about their character.
Could you elaborate on the distinction you draw in your last sentence? What is that difference, and how does it ever matter?
|
On March 10 2012 08:20 Megabuster123 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:16 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 08:09 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 08:05 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 08:01 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 07:57 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 07:52 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 07:33 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 07:30 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 07:26 Soma Cruz wrote:
[quote]
As time goes on, words begin to change.
Like faggot. It used to be a bundle of sticks, then it's a word for gay people, now people also use it synonymously with other insults.
It really boggles my mind how people here (which are mostly suburban white dudes) get offended over a straight word. It really boggles my mine how heterosexual people think their in a position to say whether or not faggot is an offensive word. agreed lol It's because they've made some preliminary philosophical discoveries about how signifiers are not externally motivated and apply in arbitrary fashion to their signifieds, don't examine this discovery in any rigorous fashion and conclude "words mean whatever man" and use this as an excuse not to examine their own actions and/or the social power of language. It's pathetic. You're giving a transparently post-hoc rationalization borne directly out of cognitive dissonance far too much credit. (Though I don't blame you for wanting to believe these people are capable of more.) What? I'm not giving these people any credit, I'm calling them fools. They explicitly make the arbitrariness of signifiers argument in their blatherings, although they don't know enough to call it that. Sorry if I seemed combative. I disagree with you only to the extent that you think these people are thinking this through at all. I don't think there's any kernel of an idea under their arguments except "I can't be accountable for this." Otherwise I've generally enjoyed your posts in this thread, so, again, sorry! NP I was just confused :D There's generally two camps of apologists. The first are the basements dwellers and the second are the people who try to pursue the "if you are offended you give the word power" line, which is total bs. I'm referring to the second camp here. Yeah. Those in the second group strike me as simply disingenuous. The argument can't survive even cursory disinterested scrutiny. They're just offering up the nonsense that cognitive dissonance flushes into their heads when confronted with their irreconcilable positions that (1) there is a good reason to be using racist language, but (2) they are not racist. But maybe we're saying the same thing at this point? The pretentious condescension in this post is literally awe-inspiring. The constant assumptions you make about the people who disagree with you make me think you have some severe hypocritical prejudices against people on the internet who may not have the same paradigm as you.
Culture does not function in terms of paradigms. I suggest you read Kuhn's "Structure of Scientific Revolution," where the idea of paradigm shift is introduced, and think about how it DOES NOT apply to culture.
I mean, your entire post is incoherent so I don't know why I point out that in particular.
|
On March 10 2012 08:16 enanoretozon wrote:
Personally I think this focus on nigger as poster-word of discrimination and such is pretty ridiculous.
As a Panamanian/Soviet (it was soviet in my time!) I've been called beaner, spic, mexican (lol?) to my face by black people in Atlanta when I went to the states on vacation in 2003. White guys accelerated their step when I was trying to ask for directions and one even said something about having no change. Spanish people think I'm a dumb sudaca that lives in trees. Well, americans also frequently think Panamanians live in trees and I still vividly remember the attitude, the looks and disdain of many americans here when they had their bases in my country. I am too dark for ukranians, too gringo-looking for panamanians, too puertoricany for americans, etc. etc. This is to my face, online? just multiply that by a large number. As an atheist I have also no shortage of hate directed towards me from every sort of religious variation.
My point is, *people*, human beings all over the world sure love their racism, their labels, their regionalism and especially their discrimination. The labels and such are the excuse to treat someone in a certain way. More on topic: All this drama about what that Orb guy said, only makes me think one thing:
Get over yourselves for pete's sake...
Ooo he said nigger. From the reaction I've seen you'd think he made freaking hats out of babies. And people patting themselves in the back, yeah SC2 community so mature, zero tolerance towards intolerance.
Disgusting...
Sounds like you chose a pretty crappy vacation spot.
It's totally mind boggling how a little bm in a ladder game garners a mass response like this. Jesus. He's not even a big figurehead in the community.
|
On March 10 2012 08:22 threshy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:16 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 10 2012 08:12 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 08:11 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 08:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 07:57 SeraKuDA wrote:On March 10 2012 07:16 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 07:10 SeraKuDA wrote:
Oh what the hell... I don't even like orb's casting, but I feel sympathetic for him here. Who gives a shit about random words like that? It's not like we live in the 1950s. Times have changed. People are oversensitive sometimes, and they need to grow up. If you can't even say the word, let alone spell it I think you have a problem. If times have changed, why do so many people persist in using racist language? It's not as though times changing makes the language less racist (if you think it does, please explain your reasoning). Edit: note that I agree that times have changed in some ways--I just don't see how that's relevant here. Times have changed in the sense that the words don't have the same connotation to them. None of us grew up during slavery, and only our parents, and grandparents have a real understanding of what it was like to live in a very racist era. This is a new time, new generation, and our culture is diversified. The words don't carry the same weight they once did, and thus when spoken people generally aren't offended. It's the select few, the sensitive ones, that cry out over the use of them. Those people are the problem-starters. You know what? Fuck you and people like you who willfully remain grossly ignorant of the world in which we live. Try growing up as a minority. We have a very real understanding of what it's like to grow up in a very racist era. Would you like an example? When my family went to a restaurant during pride week in my city my father would not go to the bathroom by himself because "he didn't want the faggots doing anything to him in there." I am not being overly sensitive. I am reacting to a word that is regularly thrown in my face with hatred and vitriol. If you legitimately believe that nigger means the same thing today that it did 20 years ago you're completely lost. It doesn't have to mean the same thing in order to still be off limits. It's a word. Some people make a big deal out of it... Me making a noise with my mouth doesn't give you the right to attack me or something. It may bug you, but learn to deal with it because it's just a word that isn't harming you. There's a difference in calling someone a nigger and actually treating them differently because of skin color. People "deal with it" by labeling those who use racist language as racists and drawing reasonable assumptions about their character. Could you elaborate on the distinction you draw in your last sentence? What is that difference, and how does it ever matter?
I think context is hugely important if you're going to make sweeping character judgments. Is a comedian telling a racist joke on par with a Klan member? Probably not. Is a person swearing a fit of rage a homophobe like the Westboro Baptists? Probably not. I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's fair to judge people on the basis of what they say when they're angry.
|
So...I was just watching EG.DeMoN's dota2 stream, and he said "n-----fucker" live over the air. What happens to him?
|
On March 10 2012 08:20 Megabuster123 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:16 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 08:09 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 08:05 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 08:01 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 07:57 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 07:52 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 07:33 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 07:30 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 07:26 Soma Cruz wrote:
[quote]
As time goes on, words begin to change.
Like faggot. It used to be a bundle of sticks, then it's a word for gay people, now people also use it synonymously with other insults.
It really boggles my mind how people here (which are mostly suburban white dudes) get offended over a straight word. It really boggles my mine how heterosexual people think their in a position to say whether or not faggot is an offensive word. agreed lol It's because they've made some preliminary philosophical discoveries about how signifiers are not externally motivated and apply in arbitrary fashion to their signifieds, don't examine this discovery in any rigorous fashion and conclude "words mean whatever man" and use this as an excuse not to examine their own actions and/or the social power of language. It's pathetic. You're giving a transparently post-hoc rationalization borne directly out of cognitive dissonance far too much credit. (Though I don't blame you for wanting to believe these people are capable of more.) What? I'm not giving these people any credit, I'm calling them fools. They explicitly make the arbitrariness of signifiers argument in their blatherings, although they don't know enough to call it that. Sorry if I seemed combative. I disagree with you only to the extent that you think these people are thinking this through at all. I don't think there's any kernel of an idea under their arguments except "I can't be accountable for this." Otherwise I've generally enjoyed your posts in this thread, so, again, sorry! NP I was just confused :D There's generally two camps of apologists. The first are the basements dwellers and the second are the people who try to pursue the "if you are offended you give the word power" line, which is total bs. I'm referring to the second camp here. Yeah. Those in the second group strike me as simply disingenuous. The argument can't survive even cursory disinterested scrutiny. They're just offering up the nonsense that cognitive dissonance flushes into their heads when confronted with their irreconcilable positions that (1) there is a good reason to be using racist language, but (2) they are not racist. But maybe we're saying the same thing at this point? The pretentious condescension in this post is literally awe-inspiring. The constant assumptions you make about the people who disagree with you make me think you have some severe hypocritical prejudices against people on the internet who may not have the same paradigm as you.
So, show how my "assumptions" are wrong. Present a coherent argument. I'm not ashamed of condescending to those who won't do their homework.
What's "pretentious" about my posts anyway? What am I pretending to be, in your opinion?
|
On March 10 2012 08:12 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:11 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 08:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 07:57 SeraKuDA wrote:On March 10 2012 07:16 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 07:10 SeraKuDA wrote:
Oh what the hell... I don't even like orb's casting, but I feel sympathetic for him here. Who gives a shit about random words like that? It's not like we live in the 1950s. Times have changed. People are oversensitive sometimes, and they need to grow up. If you can't even say the word, let alone spell it I think you have a problem. If times have changed, why do so many people persist in using racist language? It's not as though times changing makes the language less racist (if you think it does, please explain your reasoning). Edit: note that I agree that times have changed in some ways--I just don't see how that's relevant here. Times have changed in the sense that the words don't have the same connotation to them. None of us grew up during slavery, and only our parents, and grandparents have a real understanding of what it was like to live in a very racist era. This is a new time, new generation, and our culture is diversified. The words don't carry the same weight they once did, and thus when spoken people generally aren't offended. It's the select few, the sensitive ones, that cry out over the use of them. Those people are the problem-starters. You know what? Fuck you and people like you who willfully remain grossly ignorant of the world in which we live. Try growing up as a minority. We have a very real understanding of what it's like to grow up in a very racist era. Would you like an example? When my family went to a restaurant during pride week in my city my father would not go to the bathroom by himself because "he didn't want the faggots doing anything to him in there." I am not being overly sensitive. I am reacting to a word that is regularly thrown in my face with hatred and vitriol. If you legitimately believe that nigger means the same thing today that it did 20 years ago you're completely lost. If you legitimately believe that you're in a position to understand what nigger means then you should never be given a platform from which to speak.
Let me rephrase this:
If you know what you are talking about, you should never be heard.
The prevalence of this thought is the major problem of modern democracy.
|
On March 10 2012 08:21 gulati wrote:
I really miss the days of gaming where you could speak your mind and act like a human being, without red tape and censorship everywhere. I am proud to admit that I speak extremely foul, vulgar and hateful, and I will never, ever change who I am or my speech patterns to please anybody, regardless of how big the paycheck becomes.
As a Personal Statement: Yes, Alex, I do own Evil Geniuses apparel. So don't take my statement as if I hate your company or you. I just don't respect your decision whatsoever, because I too am a very educated man, and my view on speech is an inverse-correlation to your linear mindset of speech and human behavior. Sorry to say.
Best of luck to Orb. He was my third favorite non-Korean caster.
well congrats mate.. its great to have the political conscience and capacity to say anything you want and then use that to be an asshole.
|
Good!
I'm sure all of us have said really bad things raging about games/sports when we're alone or with close friends. But streaming/recording it and sharing it with a larger audience that doesn't know you as a person? Well then it'll most likely come back to bite u in the a**!
|
On March 10 2012 08:24 slipperhat wrote:
So...I was just watching EG.DeMoN's dota2 stream, and he said "n-----fucker" live over the air. What happens to him?
That's fucking hilarious, maybe we should ruin his career too now that we're on it...
|
On March 10 2012 08:24 slipperhat wrote:
So...I was just watching EG.DeMoN's dota2 stream, and he said "n-----fucker" live over the air. What happens to him?
Contact the sponsors immediately! It seems only fair!
I am so disappointed in humanity right now. There's no reason for this to turn out like it did, except for people trying to hurt other people.
|
On March 10 2012 08:24 slipperhat wrote:
So...I was just watching EG.DeMoN's dota2 stream, and he said "n-----fucker" live over the air. What happens to him?
Nothing because EG management are a bunch of fucking hypocrites....
|
On March 10 2012 08:25 Thrombozyt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:12 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 08:11 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 08:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 07:57 SeraKuDA wrote:On March 10 2012 07:16 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 07:10 SeraKuDA wrote:
Oh what the hell... I don't even like orb's casting, but I feel sympathetic for him here. Who gives a shit about random words like that? It's not like we live in the 1950s. Times have changed. People are oversensitive sometimes, and they need to grow up. If you can't even say the word, let alone spell it I think you have a problem. If times have changed, why do so many people persist in using racist language? It's not as though times changing makes the language less racist (if you think it does, please explain your reasoning). Edit: note that I agree that times have changed in some ways--I just don't see how that's relevant here. Times have changed in the sense that the words don't have the same connotation to them. None of us grew up during slavery, and only our parents, and grandparents have a real understanding of what it was like to live in a very racist era. This is a new time, new generation, and our culture is diversified. The words don't carry the same weight they once did, and thus when spoken people generally aren't offended. It's the select few, the sensitive ones, that cry out over the use of them. Those people are the problem-starters. You know what? Fuck you and people like you who willfully remain grossly ignorant of the world in which we live. Try growing up as a minority. We have a very real understanding of what it's like to grow up in a very racist era. Would you like an example? When my family went to a restaurant during pride week in my city my father would not go to the bathroom by himself because "he didn't want the faggots doing anything to him in there." I am not being overly sensitive. I am reacting to a word that is regularly thrown in my face with hatred and vitriol. If you legitimately believe that nigger means the same thing today that it did 20 years ago you're completely lost. If you legitimately believe that you're in a position to understand what nigger means then you should never be given a platform from which to speak. Let me rephrase this: If you know what you are talking about, you should never be heard. The prevalence of this thought is the major problem of modern democracy.
My assumption there was that he was a white guy acting like he understood discrimination. He responded that he is in fact, half black. While I still vehemently disagree with his point of view he does ACTUALLY speak with more authority than any non-minority that posts in this thread.
|
On March 10 2012 08:24 slipperhat wrote:
So...I was just watching EG.DeMoN's dota2 stream, and he said "n-----fucker" live over the air. What happens to him?
you serious bro? tweet that shit
|
On March 10 2012 08:24 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:22 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 08:16 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 10 2012 08:12 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 08:11 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 08:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 07:57 SeraKuDA wrote:On March 10 2012 07:16 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 07:10 SeraKuDA wrote:
Oh what the hell... I don't even like orb's casting, but I feel sympathetic for him here. Who gives a shit about random words like that? It's not like we live in the 1950s. Times have changed. People are oversensitive sometimes, and they need to grow up. If you can't even say the word, let alone spell it I think you have a problem. If times have changed, why do so many people persist in using racist language? It's not as though times changing makes the language less racist (if you think it does, please explain your reasoning). Edit: note that I agree that times have changed in some ways--I just don't see how that's relevant here. Times have changed in the sense that the words don't have the same connotation to them. None of us grew up during slavery, and only our parents, and grandparents have a real understanding of what it was like to live in a very racist era. This is a new time, new generation, and our culture is diversified. The words don't carry the same weight they once did, and thus when spoken people generally aren't offended. It's the select few, the sensitive ones, that cry out over the use of them. Those people are the problem-starters. You know what? Fuck you and people like you who willfully remain grossly ignorant of the world in which we live. Try growing up as a minority. We have a very real understanding of what it's like to grow up in a very racist era. Would you like an example? When my family went to a restaurant during pride week in my city my father would not go to the bathroom by himself because "he didn't want the faggots doing anything to him in there." I am not being overly sensitive. I am reacting to a word that is regularly thrown in my face with hatred and vitriol. If you legitimately believe that nigger means the same thing today that it did 20 years ago you're completely lost. It doesn't have to mean the same thing in order to still be off limits. It's a word. Some people make a big deal out of it... Me making a noise with my mouth doesn't give you the right to attack me or something. It may bug you, but learn to deal with it because it's just a word that isn't harming you. There's a difference in calling someone a nigger and actually treating them differently because of skin color. People "deal with it" by labeling those who use racist language as racists and drawing reasonable assumptions about their character. Could you elaborate on the distinction you draw in your last sentence? What is that difference, and how does it ever matter? I think context is hugely important if you're going to make sweeping character judgments. Is a comedian telling a racist joke on par with a Klan member? Probably not. Is a person swearing a fit of rage a homophobe like the Westboro Baptists? Probably not. I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's fair to judge people on the basis of what they say when they're angry.
Well, sure. But that's a red herring of an argument, because I haven't compared Orb to a klan member or anything like that. But I find this argument unavailing anyway, because, as I pointed out many pages ago in this thread, it is not particularly hard to refrain from saying racist stuff when you aren't harboring latent racial animus. When I get mad, I don't suddenly start to use racial slurs. I don't even struggle to hold them back. In fact, I don't wrestle with the issue at all. Do you?
|
On March 10 2012 08:28 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:25 Thrombozyt wrote:On March 10 2012 08:12 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 08:11 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 08:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 07:57 SeraKuDA wrote:On March 10 2012 07:16 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 07:10 SeraKuDA wrote:
Oh what the hell... I don't even like orb's casting, but I feel sympathetic for him here. Who gives a shit about random words like that? It's not like we live in the 1950s. Times have changed. People are oversensitive sometimes, and they need to grow up. If you can't even say the word, let alone spell it I think you have a problem. If times have changed, why do so many people persist in using racist language? It's not as though times changing makes the language less racist (if you think it does, please explain your reasoning). Edit: note that I agree that times have changed in some ways--I just don't see how that's relevant here. Times have changed in the sense that the words don't have the same connotation to them. None of us grew up during slavery, and only our parents, and grandparents have a real understanding of what it was like to live in a very racist era. This is a new time, new generation, and our culture is diversified. The words don't carry the same weight they once did, and thus when spoken people generally aren't offended. It's the select few, the sensitive ones, that cry out over the use of them. Those people are the problem-starters. You know what? Fuck you and people like you who willfully remain grossly ignorant of the world in which we live. Try growing up as a minority. We have a very real understanding of what it's like to grow up in a very racist era. Would you like an example? When my family went to a restaurant during pride week in my city my father would not go to the bathroom by himself because "he didn't want the faggots doing anything to him in there." I am not being overly sensitive. I am reacting to a word that is regularly thrown in my face with hatred and vitriol. If you legitimately believe that nigger means the same thing today that it did 20 years ago you're completely lost. If you legitimately believe that you're in a position to understand what nigger means then you should never be given a platform from which to speak. Let me rephrase this: If you know what you are talking about, you should never be heard. The prevalence of this thought is the major problem of modern democracy. My assumption there was that he was a white guy acting like he understood discrimination. He responded that he is in fact, half black. While I still vehemently disagree with his point of view he does ACTUALLY speak with more authority than any non-minority that posts in this thread.
If your defense is going to be subjective, then you can't really argue it, since by definition literally everyone not already discriminated against is incapable of arguing with you. To me, that's just a convenient excuse not to think, and this is coming from someone who regularly types essays trying to convince people that homosexuality is deserving of the same rights as heterosexuality. Apparently all of this is invalidated by the fact that I've called people "faggots" before when I'm angry.
|
On March 10 2012 08:24 slipperhat wrote:
So...I was just watching EG.DeMoN's dota2 stream, and he said "n-----fucker" live over the air. What happens to him?
Does reddit care? EG only cares if reddit cares.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
