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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
"sponsors got pissed, we don't give a hoot but the sponsors do, so he's outta here. fudge no i ain't getting rid of idra no matter what he says until he costs me money. right now, idra makes us money, so he stays." cause that's what it's really all about. | ||
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1st_Panzer_Div.
United States621 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:47 sc2superfan101 wrote: dude could have saved a lot of time by just saying: "sponsors got pissed, we don't give a hoot but the sponsors do, so he's outta here. fudge no i ain't getting rid of idra no matter what he says until he costs me money. right now, idra makes us money, so he stays." cause that's what it's really all about. Or you could read what he actually wrote as he doesn't say this at all. It's a well thought out well written response that addresses all of these concerns. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
It's because they've made some preliminary philosophical discoveries about how signifiers are not externally motivated and apply in arbitrary fashion to their signifieds, don't examine this discovery in any rigorous fashion and conclude "words mean whatever man" and use this as an excuse not to examine their own actions and/or the social power of language. It's pathetic. | ||
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Megabuster123
Canada1837 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:50 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: Or you could read what he actually wrote as he doesn't say this at all. It's a well thought out well written response that addresses all of these concerns. His post is basically masturbation. The reality of the situation is that everyone knows about Orbs past, but it hasn't ever bled into his professionalism in his casts. EG definitely knew about and the only reason they're firing him about it is because Reddit caused a shit storm and started messaging their sponsors. | ||
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SuperNinja
Canada33 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45022 Posts
On March 10 2012 06:19 Prplppleatr wrote: I understand that what you said was a joke (I said it was a joke), what I don't understand is why you didn't get banned for this joke. When I made a similar type of joke about the french people, I was banned. I just want some consistency from moderators. If this type for joke is unacceptable then it shouldn't matter if you are making fun of your own nation, it is the type of joke that is unacceptable, regardless of who says it. I have no idea what you said, how similar it was to anything, your history/ post history on TL, or anything at all- so there's no reason for you to jump to the conclusion that there is being inconsistent moderating. Nor do I really care to be involved with your drama, to be honest. All I know is that I've seen and heard light-skinned people (correctly or incorrectly) labeled as Americans, and treated worse as a result (because of negative American stereotypes). Furthermore, I know of non-Americans who point out, while traveling, that they aren't Americans, just to make sure such problems don't arise, as well as Americans who pretend not to be American so that they don't have these problems either. Kinda fucked up? Yeah, prejudice is in general. Perhaps if I shared that elaboration from the get-go, you wouldn't be so eager to question my post, but I really see no problem with it. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:50 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: Or you could read what he actually wrote as he doesn't say this at all. It's a well thought out well written response that addresses all of these concerns. i read it, and i can read between the lines. it was a huge post about how little of a racist he is and how he can prove it with his degree and why he's not a racist, then some stuff about orb and responsibility, than scolding people for going to the sponsors. i don't want to sound mean, but the guy spent more time talking about how not racist he was than he did about anything else. if he really gave a crap, idra would be off the team. dude has said "retard" and "faggot" more than any other pro SC2 player i've ever seen. actually, thinking about that, he said it more than all the other pros i've seen combined. his response is "oh, i scold him." you know why he "scolds" idra but fires orb? idra makes him money. orb was losing him money. got no problems with that personally, you gotta take care of the wallet. but let's not pretend that's not what it was about. that is what it is about. i understand why he can't come on here and say that, because then the sponsors would still be pissed, but that is what the truth is. like i said, i don't really mind him being PC and deflecting the issue, cause he's got a wallet to think about, i just thought it was funny. | ||
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lowreezy08
United States143 Posts
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SeraKuDA
Canada343 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:16 threshy wrote: If times have changed, why do so many people persist in using racist language? It's not as though times changing makes the language less racist (if you think it does, please explain your reasoning). Edit: note that I agree that times have changed in some ways--I just don't see how that's relevant here. Times have changed in the sense that the words don't have the same connotation to them. None of us grew up during slavery, and only our parents, and grandparents have a real understanding of what it was like to live in a very racist era. This is a new time, new generation, and our culture is diversified. The words don't carry the same weight they once did, and thus when spoken people generally aren't offended. It's the select few, the sensitive ones, that cry out over the use of them. Those people are the problem-starters. | ||
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threshy
Qatar550 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:52 sam!zdat wrote: It's because they've made some preliminary philosophical discoveries about how signifiers are not externally motivated and apply in arbitrary fashion to their signifieds, don't examine this discovery in any rigorous fashion and conclude "words mean whatever man" and use this as an excuse not to examine their own actions and/or the social power of language. It's pathetic. You're giving a transparently post-hoc rationalization borne directly out of cognitive dissonance far too much credit. (Though I don't blame you for wanting to believe these people are capable of more.) | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:54 Megabuster123 wrote: His post is basically masturbation. The reality of the situation is that everyone knows about Orbs past, but it hasn't ever bled into his professionalism in his casts. EG definitely knew about and the only reason they're firing him about it is because Reddit caused a shit storm and started messaging their sponsors. This right here. What kills me is that the people who contacted the sponsers, if I had to guess, aren't even real members of the e-sports community. I mean, you could argue that only members of the e-sports community would really give a shit, but that's totally not the case on reddit. All manner of people visit Reddit and if something gets marked as funny or racist or whatever then who knows who saw it? I mean, if you think about it - why would EG's sponsers be contacted about something ORB said? Yeah they employed him to do some casting, but it's not like he plays for the team or anything. It looks like some people saw the pictures in question, did a tertiary search on EG, found their sponsers and expressed their concern. This kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME. It just sucks that it happened here, now, to orb. | ||
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SC2NeCro
Canada507 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:50 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: Or you could read what he actually wrote as he doesn't say this at all. It's a well thought out well written response that addresses all of these concerns. It doesn't matter what he says in his post. The truth is what superfan wrote. That's how the real world works. | ||
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threshy
Qatar550 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:57 SeraKuDA wrote: Times have changed in the sense that the words don't have the same connotation to them. None of us grew up during slavery, and only our parents, and grandparents have a real understanding of what it was like to live in a very racist era. This is a new time, new generation, and our culture is diversified. The words don't carry the same weight they once did, and thus when spoken people generally aren't offended. It's the select few, the sensitive ones, that cry out over the use of them. Those people are the problem-starters. These words clearly do have the same meaning (or at least an analogous meaning). That's why people get upset. Isn't that the more logical explanation than that the words have a different, inoffensive meaning, but everyone is confused about the change except for a core group of elite white adolescents? | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:57 threshy wrote: You're giving a transparently post-hoc rationalization borne directly out of cognitive dissonance far too much credit. (Though I don't blame you for wanting to believe these people are capable of more.) What? I'm not giving these people any credit, I'm calling them fools. They explicitly make the arbitrariness of signifiers argument in their blatherings, although they don't know enough to call it that. | ||
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Kernen
United States84 Posts
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Covariance
Canada59 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:46 Abrafred wrote: That was well said Mr. Garfield. Days like these make me proud to be a good Christian. He got what he deserved for having said n------ once in the past. What on earth does being a good christian have anything to do with it? Do you think you're somehow more ethical than me on the basis of subscribing to an arbitrary religious belief? | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
He's playing a game and calls someone a nigger? Is this really what all this is about? Is calling someone a cracker, gringo, chink, whatever else racist too? Honestly why is this such a big deal to people, it's not like he actual dislikes black people. When I play ladder and someone makes me mad, sure sometime I'll say you piece of shit, but that happens in tons of sports. This is becoming worse than that one time where Justin Bieber got a water bottle thrown at him. And the argument if we want starcraft to mainstream that can't happen. I can't tell if people are trolling, or are really lacking that much intelligence when they say that. Do you not see there's much more blocking esports from being mainstream? (Such as over 50% of the community being completely awkward, ugly, uninteresting, overweight, 99% guys, and boring?). I just cannot wrap my head around how silly this is, someone says "nigger" and this is what happens, people ENJOY watching orb cast, that's why they choose to watch him, even if his rage etc can get out of hand. If EG gets rid of people like this, I don't have much respect for them, luckily I can see them justifying their actions because the sponsors complained, but I wonder how they would have acted if the sponsors didn't say anything. | ||
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threshy
Qatar550 Posts
On March 10 2012 08:01 sam!zdat wrote: What? I'm not giving these people any credit, I'm calling them fools. They explicitly make the arbitrariness of signifiers argument in their blatherings, although they don't know enough to call it that. Sorry if I seemed combative. I disagree with you only to the extent that you think these people are thinking this through at all. I don't think there's any kernel of an idea under their arguments except "I can't be accountable for this." Otherwise I've generally enjoyed your posts in this thread, so, again, sorry! | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:30 Klondikebar wrote: It really boggles my mine how heterosexual people think they're in a position to say whether or not faggot is an offensive word. THANK YOU. The lengths that people on this board have gone to rationalize -- what, being an anti-social teenage jackass? -- just so they can avoid the social consequences of knowingly being obscene or offensive is HI-LAR-IOUS. | ||
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Megabuster123
Canada1837 Posts
On March 10 2012 08:05 Covariance wrote: What on earth does being a good christian have anything to do with it? Do you think you're somehow more ethical than me on the basis of subscribing to an arbitrary religious belief? I fucking knew someone was going to respond to this. Just let it go. We've already got enough of a shitstorm in here without it turning into a religious debate. | ||
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