No overlapping of orb drama. Keep the two topics separate. People bringing the orb discussion over to this thread will be warned/banned (starting on page 25*).
Before people start taking sides based on her English tweets, I'd like to translate her Korean tweets so that people don't misunderstand her or jump to conclusions.
Slayers_Jessica: 스타2를 취미로 할거라고 팀탈퇴하더니.. 새로운 팀으로 가네..쩝 타팀에 간다고 못가게 한적도 없고..다른 선수들은 본인의 의사를 정확히 말하고 팀이적했는데.. 그 선수들이랑 참 비교된다.응? 거짓말하는 건 좀 좋지 않은데?? 간다고 안막는단다... 거짓말하는게 참 기분이 나쁘구나..다른데가서는 그러지마라 응? 우리팀 출신이라고 자랑스럽게 얘기도 하지마렴.. 난 너처럼 거짓말하는 선수가 우리팀에 잇엇다는 게 부끄럽다. 갈수록 실망주는 사람들이 느는구나..이래서 키워봐야 소용없단 말이 맞는건가? 내가 왜 이러고있지? http://twtkr.olleh.com/view.php?long_id=L10NjE
He said he'd play sc2 as a hobby but he joins a new team. We never stopped anyone from joining different teams, and other players directly state their intentions and leave the team... he's really incomparable to those players huh? It's not good to lie?? We don't stop people from leaving, so the fact that you lied really hurts my feelings. Don't do that on the other teams please? Don't be proud of your Slayers roots... The fact that we had a liar like you on the team is embarrassing. As time goes on, more people are starting to dissapoint.. maybe this is why there's a saying "you get nothing out of raising people"? Why am I doing this?
xSixSleep: @Slayers_Jessica ㅠㅠ기사랑 다르길래뭐지 싶엇어요...
(sad crying face) it was different from the article so I was wondering what it was
SlayersJessica: @xSixSleep 누구 말하는지 알지? 너나 명환이 같이 사실도 말하지 못하고 거짓말이나 하는 겁쟁이같으니라고....난 저런애들이 싫다.. 저런 애들을 내 새끼라고 키운 내가 미친게지...
You know who I am talking about right? He couldn't tell the truth like you or myung hwan (golden) and lied like a coward... I don't like kids like that... I was crazy for raising kids like them as if they were my own children.
xSixSleep: @Slayers_Jessica ㅠㅠㅠㅠ
(crying face again)
Slayers_Jessica: 사실 팀탈퇴도 본인이 자기트윗에 떡하니 올려서 탈퇴햇다고 해서 나도 그때서야알았다는거지. 말도없이 탈퇴하고 이유를 물으니 취미로 하고 직장복귀한다길래 그러라 했더니..
I found out that he left Slayers only after reading his post on twitter. He left without saying a word to me so I asked him why, and he said that he wanted to play sc2 as a hobby and go back to his job.
I heard the news, it must be like getting hit in the back of your head... please let go of your anger..
Slayers_Jessica: @Empire_viOLet 그걸 편드는애들이 더웃겨 ... 질투하냐는 말에 개뿜었다. 거기가서도 또 그런짓하면 우리팀 욕먹을까 무섭다 설마 거기선 안그러겠지? 인기관리하려면말야.
The people who take his side seem more ridiculous... It was ridiculous when someone asked me if I was jealous. I am scared that he'll pull the same thing on the new team and give Slayers a bad rep. He won't do that right? He's got popularity to retain?
EDIT: Mistranslation on the 3rd tweet, I'd like to apologize for that. It was a confusing construction, and I misread it.
SlayersJessica: @xSixSleep 누구 말하는지 알지? 너나 명환이 같이 사실도 말하지 못하고 거짓말이나 하는 겁쟁이같으니라고....난 저런애들이 싫다.. 저런 애들을 내 새끼라고 키운 내가 미친게지...
You know who I am talking about right? He's like you and myung hwan (Golden) who can't even tell the truth and lie like cowards... I don't like kids like that... I was crazy for raising kids like them as if they were my own children
Is there a typo in this? Coz I recall Golden told the truth that he wanted to leave a team. I'm sure Sleep did as well.
SlayersJessica: @xSixSleep 누구 말하는지 알지? 너나 명환이 같이 사실도 말하지 못하고 거짓말이나 하는 겁쟁이같으니라고....난 저런애들이 싫다.. 저런 애들을 내 새끼라고 키운 내가 미친게지...
You know who I am talking about right? He's like you and myung hwan (Golden) who can't even tell the truth and lie like cowards... I don't like kids like that... I was crazy for raising kids like them as if they were my own children
Is there a typo in this? Coz I recall Golden told the truth that he wanted to leave a team. I'm sure Sleep did as well.
i am pretty sure that's what she said. as for what happened with golden and sleep and jessica personally, i donno
SlayersJessica: @xSixSleep 누구 말하는지 알지? 너나 명환이 같이 사실도 말하지 못하고 거짓말이나 하는 겁쟁이같으니라고....난 저런애들이 싫다.. 저런 애들을 내 새끼라고 키운 내가 미친게지...
You know who I am talking about right? He's like you and myung hwan (Golden) who can't even tell the truth and lie like cowards... I don't like kids like that... I was crazy for raising kids like them as if they were my own children
Is there a typo in this? Coz I recall Golden told the truth that he wanted to leave a team. I'm sure Sleep did as well.
Pretty sure she is talking about Dragon, when he left slayers he said he wants to focus on a job, then he went and joined Mill.
But yes, this is not very professional of her to be doing all of this all over twitter. But she has done this in the past so it is not to much of a shocker.
I do not disagree with Jessica's feelings, however I do disagree with her actions. I understand why she has her feelings of betrayal, but this is definitely not the way to go about it. In the tweet with Violet she mentions how she's scared about how Dragon's actions in the foreign scene might possibly hurt SlayerS reputation... however her ranting is hurting their reputation as well. It creates unnecessary drama, in my opinion.
On March 07 2012 17:36 Aserrin wrote: Do you guys honestly believe that Jessica calling Dragon out hurts SlayerS' reputation?
To the extent Dragon fans have to go... this is unreal.
Dragon fans? Looking at this from a completely business perspective, do you think that people would want to do business with slayers after seeing how crazy jessica gets when things that aren't completely in her favor go? Even if dragon completely lied, do you think that it's smart to slander people over twitter where everyone can see it? I'm a dragon fan but im also a huge slayers fan as well. This is not in the best interest for slayers by far.
honestly, I think that people have been giving dragon a ton of negative attention ever since the katu incident. not sure why but, it's really disheartening to read. It's a shame how much hate goes around. Especially on this site.
On March 07 2012 17:36 Aserrin wrote: Do you guys honestly believe that Jessica calling Dragon out hurts SlayerS' reputation?
To the extent Dragon fans have to go... this is unreal.
Dragon fans? Looking at this from a completely business perspective, do you think that people would want to do business with slayers after seeing how crazy jessica gets when things that aren't completely in her favor go? Even if dragon completely lied, do you think that it's smart to slander people over twitter where everyone can see it? I'm a dragon fan but im also a huge slayers fan as well. This is not in the best interest for slayers by far.
This helps neither Jessica's nor Dragon's respective reputations, but considering what an esteemed organization SlayerS is it will hardly affect them (it will, but mostly just Jessica)
On March 07 2012 17:36 Aserrin wrote: Do you guys honestly believe that Jessica calling Dragon out hurts SlayerS' reputation?
To the extent Dragon fans have to go... this is unreal.
I think you have misunderstood me. I do not think that the fact that Jessica called Dragon out hurts SlayerS' reputation, I think the fact that Jessica addresses issues like this in a non-professional manner is what hurts reputation. I do not mean to disrespect Jessica at all; I admire her management skills and I have often told people that I really love how passionate she is and how much love she pours into her work. However, I just think that this is the wrong way to go about dealing with such an issue. Like I have previously mentioned, this is my personal opinion. I am not defending Dragon against Jessica or trying to say "Jessica is X for saying Y about Dragon." I am commenting on her methodology as someone else currently learning about eSports and how things are run in this scene. I hope you understand.
I think her being all public like this actually enhances Slayers reputation. It shows she has a deep passion about her team, and it gives the impression of it being more of a family than a team.
SlayersJessica: @xSixSleep 누구 말하는지 알지? 너나 명환이 같이 사실도 말하지 못하고 거짓말이나 하는 겁쟁이같으니라고....난 저런애들이 싫다.. 저런 애들을 내 새끼라고 키운 내가 미친게지...
You know who I am talking about right? He's like you and myung hwan (Golden) who can't even tell the truth and lie like cowards... I don't like kids like that... I was crazy for raising kids like them as if they were my own children
Is there a typo in this? Coz I recall Golden told the truth that he wanted to leave a team. I'm sure Sleep did as well.
i am pretty sure that's what she said. as for what happened with golden and sleep and jessica personally, i donno
I think the 같이 is conveying an idea "like you guys" and not "you two". She already adds Sleep and Golden together. Sentence reads more like, He couldn't tell me the truth like you two did, instead... (IMHO)
I think she meant to say Dragon lied unlike Sleep and Golden. I think it's a mistranslation and it's supposed to say something to the effect of "Unlike you and Golden who told the truth, he's a coward who lied"
SlayersJessica: @xSixSleep 누구 말하는지 알지? 너나 명환이 같이 사실도 말하지 못하고 거짓말이나 하는 겁쟁이같으니라고....난 저런애들이 싫다.. 저런 애들을 내 새끼라고 키운 내가 미친게지...
You know who I am talking about right? He's like you and myung hwan (Golden) who can't even tell the truth and lie like cowards... I don't like kids like that... I was crazy for raising kids like them as if they were my own children
Is there a typo in this? Coz I recall Golden told the truth that he wanted to leave a team. I'm sure Sleep did as well.
i am pretty sure that's what she said. as for what happened with golden and sleep and jessica personally, i donno
I think the 같이 is conveying an idea "like you guys" and not "you two". She already adds Sleep and Golden together. Sentence reads more like, He couldn't tell me the truth like you two did, instead... (IMHO)
On March 07 2012 17:45 smileface wrote: i really am trying to determine who makes the bigger indignant comments about former players. Is it Coach Lee or Jessica?
Both were in position to do those comments. They were completely justified.
Poor Jessica, I dont think she is very angry, she seems more hurt. I think she putts alott of emotion and trust into her players, so they become somewhat of a family, Slayers fight and care for eachother.
And most of us dont understand the way of the Koreans, they care much more about honesty and honour then "foreigners".
And yes, if someone didnt understand it is Dragon she is talking about.
While Slayers is my favourite team and I have nothing against Jessica, people should stop using social media as a place to rant and express their feelings, especially famous people as this is just sad to watch. There's nothing to be gained for anyone by her doing this, Jessica is turning into bit of a drama queen by now.
It's her Twitter she can post her feelings on it! Social networking is kinda used as blogging... She can say whatever is on her mind imo... We don't know what she does on the inside. All we look at is her Tweets.
If I wanna bitch about work on my Twitter or Facebook, I will!
Crying over twitter and netizen comments, multiple occasions of lashing out at people over social media.. her behaviour is imo more toxic than the ones she has a go at.
So, why is she freaking out? Just cause Dragon joined a foreign team? What is so bad about that, just cause he changed his mind on his future doesn't mean it is the end of the world for SlayerS. He isn't even associated with them anymore so why is she getting all mad and frustrated over it? It just seems to me that it is a pointless arguement on her side. What happened has happened she can't change that. Maybe this will jump start Dragon into something amazing and we will see him succeed.
Guys, if I'm not mistaken, it's her PERSONAL twitter no? That means she can tweet w/e the hell she wants. It's not like she's spreading random lies or anything, all her so called "drama" actually makes reasonable and logical sense.
On March 07 2012 17:50 Zerothegreat wrote: It's her Twitter she can post her feelings on it! Social networking is kinda used as blogging... She can say whatever is on her mind imo... We don't know what she does on the inside. All we look at is her Tweets.
If I wanna bitch about work on my Twitter or Facebook, I will!
Problem is, people are free to interpret things by looking at these messages, and that's what we have going on right now. While anyone can express their own feelings or opinions on their own twitter or facebook, they better know that someone's going to interpret it in whatever way they want.
SlayersJessica: @xSixSleep 누구 말하는지 알지? 너나 명환이 같이 사실도 말하지 못하고 거짓말이나 하는 겁쟁이같으니라고....난 저런애들이 싫다.. 저런 애들을 내 새끼라고 키운 내가 미친게지...
You know who I am talking about right? He's like you and myung hwan (Golden) who can't even tell the truth and lie like cowards... I don't like kids like that... I was crazy for raising kids like them as if they were my own children
Is there a typo in this? Coz I recall Golden told the truth that he wanted to leave a team. I'm sure Sleep did as well.
i am pretty sure that's what she said. as for what happened with golden and sleep and jessica personally, i donno
I think the 같이 is conveying an idea "like you guys" and not "you two". She already adds Sleep and Golden together. Sentence reads more like, He couldn't tell me the truth like you two did, instead... (IMHO)
It's not surprising she'd feel a bit hurt by this. They gave a known cheater another chance and even welcomed him into their team house, and he repays them by slinking off under the cover of some flimsy lies to go and find a foreign team who'll pay him for being funny more than for his play =/
On March 07 2012 17:50 Zerothegreat wrote: It's her Twitter she can post her feelings on it! Social networking is kinda used as blogging... She can say whatever is on her mind imo... We don't know what she does on the inside. All we look at is her Tweets.
If I wanna bitch about work on my Twitter or Facebook, I will!
If you are essentially the PR person for a relatively large company, it is BAD BUSINESS to do what Jessica just did. I love her, but this makes her looks rather silly.
On March 07 2012 17:53 Pjammies wrote: So, why is she freaking out? Just cause Dragon joined a foreign team? What is so bad about that, just cause he changed his mind on his future doesn't mean it is the end of the world for SlayerS. He isn't even associated with them anymore so why is she getting all mad and frustrated over it? It just seems to me that it is a pointless arguement on her side. What happened has happened she can't change that. Maybe this will jump start Dragon into something amazing and we will see him succeed.
To quote Jessica from the very (translations of) tweets in the OP, "We never stopped anyone from joining different teams, and other players directly state their intentions and leave the team..."
She's not insulted by the fact Dragon joined a new team, but she seems hurt that Dragon seems to have lied to them about his intentions (unlike, say, Golden and Sleep).
Guys, please also remember that Korean culture is different from American/"western", so don't jump into conclusions and into judging people as-is.
On March 07 2012 17:50 Zerothegreat wrote: It's her Twitter she can post her feelings on it! Social networking is kinda used as blogging... She can say whatever is on her mind imo... We don't know what she does on the inside. All we look at is her Tweets.
If I wanna bitch about work on my Twitter or Facebook, I will!
If you are essentially the PR person for a relatively large company, it is BAD BUSINESS to do what Jessica just did. I love her, but this makes her looks rather silly.
She's a person first and a PR person last. I agree it's bad business, but is that so important? People should be more understanding of the team atmosphere at SlayerS, it doesn't operate like a business, but more like a family, hence why familial roles are adopted by the members and why feelings of betrayal like Jessica is feeling end up being so much more personal than in another organization.
honestly, maybe at the time dragon didn't really know what he wanted. The news that he's going to mil is surprising to even his fans and people who follow him.
Either way, this is not the way to react to things....
On March 07 2012 17:36 Aserrin wrote: Do you guys honestly believe that Jessica calling Dragon out hurts SlayerS' reputation?
To the extent Dragon fans have to go... this is unreal.
Dragon fans? Looking at this from a completely business perspective, do you think that people would want to do business with slayers after seeing how crazy jessica gets when things that aren't completely in her favor go? Even if dragon completely lied, do you think that it's smart to slander people over twitter where everyone can see it? I'm a dragon fan but im also a huge slayers fan as well. This is not in the best interest for slayers by far.
I'm not saying I disagree or agree with your post, however, I must point out that you used "slander" wrong. Proof: If it's true that Dragon lied, which you state in your supposition, then by definition of "slander", it is not slander to call him a liar, because people who lie are liars. This completes the proof by contradiction.
On March 07 2012 18:16 AegiS_ wrote: Sighhhh. Guy just wants to play casually, and she freaks out that he is.. leaving? I feel bad for sleep, he has every right to leave a team if he just wants to get a job and play casuall wth??
On March 07 2012 18:16 AegiS_ wrote: Sighhhh. Guy just wants to play casually, and she freaks out that he is.. leaving? I feel bad for sleep, he has every right to leave a team if he just wants to get a job and play casuall wth??
Yeah i missed the other one, this one makes it look like sleep is the one who left as it doesnt say dragon (in this OP).. my bad :p. Still, no need to be so harsh on dragon IMO.
On March 07 2012 17:53 Pjammies wrote: So, why is she freaking out? Just cause Dragon joined a foreign team? What is so bad about that, just cause he changed his mind on his future doesn't mean it is the end of the world for SlayerS. He isn't even associated with them anymore so why is she getting all mad and frustrated over it? It just seems to me that it is a pointless arguement on her side. What happened has happened she can't change that. Maybe this will jump start Dragon into something amazing and we will see him succeed.
To quote Jessica from the very (translations of) tweets in the OP, "We never stopped anyone from joining different teams, and other players directly state their intentions and leave the team..."
She's not insulted by the fact Dragon joined a new team, but she seems hurt that Dragon seems to have lied to them about his intentions (unlike, say, Golden and Sleep).
Guys, please also remember that Korean culture is different from American/"western", so don't jump into conclusions and into judging people as-is.
Agreed, there's not only a language barrier, but a cultural barrier as well.
On March 07 2012 17:53 Pjammies wrote: So, why is she freaking out? Just cause Dragon joined a foreign team? What is so bad about that, just cause he changed his mind on his future doesn't mean it is the end of the world for SlayerS. He isn't even associated with them anymore so why is she getting all mad and frustrated over it? It just seems to me that it is a pointless arguement on her side. What happened has happened she can't change that. Maybe this will jump start Dragon into something amazing and we will see him succeed.
To quote Jessica from the very (translations of) tweets in the OP, "We never stopped anyone from joining different teams, and other players directly state their intentions and leave the team..."
She's not insulted by the fact Dragon joined a new team, but she seems hurt that Dragon seems to have lied to them about his intentions (unlike, say, Golden and Sleep).
Guys, please also remember that Korean culture is different from American/"western", so don't jump into conclusions and into judging people as-is.
Agreed, there's not only a language barrier, but a cultural barrier as well.
This.
Especially in Korean culture, where honesty is a virtue that is held above all others, this kind of "lying" from Dragon really hits where it hurts.
Furthermore, Koreans place a great deal of respect with regards to age, which is why you rarely see people addressing older progamers with their full names, preferring to use honorifics such as 'hyung'. I don't think I need to point out that SlayerS_Jessica is whole lot older than Dragon is, and thus demands some respect. A little honesty is the least that can be expected, can't it?
"I was crazy for raising kids like them as if they were my own children."
... Come on, stop the freakin drama, girl! I may be wrong but it looks like clear exageration... It's not like they lost MMA or Puzzle, and maybe he was honest and just changed his mind. I'm so mad at her, who does she think she is?
"maybe this is why there's a saying "you get nothing out of raising people"? Why am I doing this?" Yeah, poor Jessica, you're a victim. Seriously, what is she thinking...
tbh, Its her own twitter profile. It should have nothing to do with SlayerS team. But she is mixing those things up and does in general a bad job about stating things.
Seems to be a cultural issue, because I can perfectly understand the perspective behind her tweets. Ironic though, that people are criticizing Jessica for overblowing things when they themselves are overblowing her comments. An exasperated rant is an exasperated rant, it's not like she's making death threats or something.
yes... calling out and exposing people over the internet is part of Korean culture. NO IT'S NOT. If she has a problem with Dragon and wants to let the world know she feels betrayed don't mention his NAME in your post. If you have something negative to say about someone you know, why would you say their names in your status unless you are trying to shame them?
people should read this: "Don't do that on the other teams please? Don't be proud of your Slayers roots... The fact that we had a liar like you on the team is embarrassing."
Joining slayers means something special, she raised the team like a family, with a family value, the Slayers root.
It's her personal twitter, I don't see why you guys are criticizing her when the other korean progamers seems to understand her perfectly well
It's just a personal rant. I think Dragon should have followed proper etiquette and communicated his new plans with his former team. Nevertheless, I think this issue will be resolved sooner or later.
I don't really see any 'drama' here, but I guess some people will look for a soap opera everywhere.
Y'know the issue with Jessica's laments is that it now actually creates a public problem. What is the public going to do about knowing how you feel about Dragon? Didn't anyone interpret Dragon's move as a backstab to SlayerS and if so, did you assume it was a valid theory or idea? Well Jessica has now just validated it and on top of that, SlayerS name gets tarnished because people will now associate this whole issue with Slayers in the back of their mind.
Before, it was all about Dragon going to Millenium after being teamless and reconsider going back to professional player rather than just an entertainer due to his past [and who knows if SlayerS would have put him back on the roster, especially with CoCa just returning). No one thought of it as a cowardly-way to get away from SlayerS, even if it was, it's not that huge of an issue for the public. Just the team and that team should complain purely amongst friends and themselves, the public won't side with you and even if they do, he's not going back SlayerS and you're certainly not taking him back.
So who wins here? You make an issue, you furthered it with outrageous potential claims and now you just tarnished your team's name. That's three strikes you're out.
On March 07 2012 18:48 ETisME wrote: people should read this: "Don't do that on the other teams please? Don't be proud of your Slayers roots... The fact that we had a liar like you on the team is embarrassing."
I don't think she said anything like that in her twitter... You might have misread her twitter. She said she is worried that if Dragon continues to lie, people will hate Slayer clan. She didn't say that it was embarrasing to have him on their team. The way that she writes, I still think she thinks Dragon of family.
Shit dragon isn't the 1337 awesome guy reddit sees in him, what a surprise... Poor SlayerS team, first CoCa and now dragon, good thing it's Boxer's team afterall should help them a lot in korea when they get all this bad publiciety.
On March 07 2012 18:58 Torte de Lini wrote: Y'know the issue with Jessica's laments is that it now actually creates a public problem. What is the public going to do about knowing how you feel about Dragon? Didn't anyone interpret Dragon's move as a backstab to SlayerS and if so, did you assume it was a valid theory or idea? Well Jessica has now just validated it and on top of that, SlayerS name gets tarnished because people will now associate this whole issue with Slayers in the back of their mind.
Before, it was all about Dragon going to Millenium after being teamless and reconsider going back to professional player rather than just an entertainer due to his past [and who knows if SlayerS would have put him back on the roster, especially with CoCa just returning). No one thought of it as a cowardly-way to get away from SlayerS, even if it was, it's not that huge of an issue for the public. Just the team and that team should complain purely amongst friends and themselves, the public won't side with you and even if they do, he's not going back SlayerS and you're certainly not taking him back.
So who wins here? You make an issue, you furthered it with outrageous potential claims and now you just tarnished your team's name. That's three strikes you're out.
What.
SlayerS name didn't get tarnished in my eyes. How does people associating the issue with SlayerS in the back of their mind tarnish anything?
There's some misunderstanding, perhaps. But nothing is more dramatic than 'That's three strikes you're out'.
On March 07 2012 18:58 Torte de Lini wrote: Y'know the issue with Jessica's laments is that it now actually creates a public problem. What is the public going to do about knowing how you feel about Dragon? Didn't anyone interpret Dragon's move as a backstab to SlayerS and if so, did you assume it was a valid theory or idea? Well Jessica has now just validated it and on top of that, SlayerS name gets tarnished because people will now associate this whole issue with Slayers in the back of their mind.
Before, it was all about Dragon going to Millenium after being teamless and reconsider going back to professional player rather than just an entertainer due to his past [and who knows if SlayerS would have put him back on the roster, especially with CoCa just returning). No one thought of it as a cowardly-way to get away from SlayerS, even if it was, it's not that huge of an issue for the public. Just the team and that team should complain purely amongst friends and themselves, the public won't side with you and even if they do, he's not going back SlayerS and you're certainly not taking him back.
So who wins here? You make an issue, you furthered it with outrageous potential claims and now you just tarnished your team's name. That's three strikes you're out.
What.
SlayerS name didn't get tarnished in my eyes. How does people associating the issue with SlayerS in the back of their mind tarnish anything?
There's some misunderstanding, perhaps. But nothing is more dramatic than 'That's three strikes you're out'.
What? When I think of SlayerS now, I will think of this and all the other issues with them such as the CoCa issue. Jessica and SlayerS Eve, how she is going to sue people for bad-mouthing SlayerS, etc. It stacks, if she didn't want people to think badly of SlayerS based on Dragon's actions, why raise the issue up at all. If Dragon leaves Millenium now or "lies/deceives" them for another team, it would be on him and the association would be purely on him.
Now it's about Dragon and SlayerS and just puts him in the dirt in addition to giving SlayerS a pointless victim role if anything or an organization with a tempered manager.
The three strikes thing was me trying to be the writer. As you can tell, I'm not Fitzgerald.
On March 07 2012 18:48 ETisME wrote: people should read this: "Don't do that on the other teams please? Don't be proud of your Slayers roots... The fact that we had a liar like you on the team is embarrassing."
I don't think she said anything like that in her twitter... You might have misread her twitter. She said she is worried that if Dragon continues to lie, people will hate Slayer clan. She didn't say that it was embarrasing to have him on their team. The way that she writes, I still think she thinks Dragon of family.
I read it from the translation @OP Not sure if that is an accurate translate or not but that feels like a comment that she would make
I see no reason why this should hit public area, she's only looking to hurt the player. Stuff like this happens all time in sports, and will continue to happen anyway: Dragon's behavior was wrong, but there is no way a team manager should be trying to publically crucify the player.
This is, in my opinion, highly unproffessional behavior from Jessica and is working TERRIBLY for Slayer's PR. Can't say I'm surprised thou, especially after previous 'drama queen' situations that already took place in the past.
Someone really needs to step in an stop Jessica from tweeting like this.. It doesn't matter how to feel about Dragon she is clearly overreacting, and to make it worse she's doing it publicly. Dragon joining a new team isn't hurting her and the only thing that's embarrassing SlayerS is Jessica's tweets.
On March 07 2012 18:56 Terrafros wrote: Though I feel Jessica goes too far in her tweets, the point she is raising is essential.
Rather than being upfront and honest, Dragon gave a false reason for wanting to leave Slayers. Very unprofessional, and very immature.
Or maybe he didn't give a false reason, wasn't decided on any particular team, and Jessica isn't a mind reader.
This is absurd behavior on her part. A team is an employer, end of story. If I decide to seek employment elsewhere, I am not in any way obligated to tell my boss about it. I just have to honor my contract.
Maybe in Korea it's okay to discuss things like this but it just comes across as massively unprofessional and petty to me... (And i'm not someone who watches Dragon's stream / cares about him at all)
EDIT: Although maybe you can lump this in with recent statements by FXOBoss so maybe it's just how SC2 management acts...
On March 07 2012 18:58 Torte de Lini wrote: Y'know the issue with Jessica's laments is that it now actually creates a public problem. What is the public going to do about knowing how you feel about Dragon? Didn't anyone interpret Dragon's move as a backstab to SlayerS and if so, did you assume it was a valid theory or idea? Well Jessica has now just validated it and on top of that, SlayerS name gets tarnished because people will now associate this whole issue with Slayers in the back of their mind.
Before, it was all about Dragon going to Millenium after being teamless and reconsider going back to professional player rather than just an entertainer due to his past [and who knows if SlayerS would have put him back on the roster, especially with CoCa just returning). No one thought of it as a cowardly-way to get away from SlayerS, even if it was, it's not that huge of an issue for the public. Just the team and that team should complain purely amongst friends and themselves, the public won't side with you and even if they do, he's not going back SlayerS and you're certainly not taking him back.
So who wins here? You make an issue, you furthered it with outrageous potential claims and now you just tarnished your team's name. That's three strikes you're out.
What.
SlayerS name didn't get tarnished in my eyes. How does people associating the issue with SlayerS in the back of their mind tarnish anything?
There's some misunderstanding, perhaps. But nothing is more dramatic than 'That's three strikes you're out'.
What? When I think of SlayerS now, I will think of this and all the other issues with them such as the CoCa issue. Jessica and SlayerS Eve, how she is going to sue people for bad-mouthing SlayerS, etc. It stacks, if she didn't want people to think badly of SlayerS based on Dragon's actions, why raise the issue up at all. If Dragon leaves Millenium now or "lies/deceives" them for another team, it would be on him and the association would be purely on him.
Now it's about Dragon and SlayerS and just puts him in the dirt in addition to giving SlayerS a pointless victim role if anything or an organization with a tempered manager.
The three strikes thing was me trying to be the writer. As you can tell, I'm not Fitzgerald.
Seems you are just as emotional as Jessica. It is twitter not a PR statement, people like you just create unnecessary drama, or if not create then put more oil on the flames.
On March 07 2012 18:56 Terrafros wrote: Though I feel Jessica goes too far in her tweets, the point she is raising is essential.
Rather than being upfront and honest, Dragon gave a false reason for wanting to leave Slayers. Very unprofessional, and very immature.
Or maybe he didn't give a false reason, wasn't decided on any particular team, and Jessica isn't a mind reader.
This is absurd behavior on her part. A team is an employer, end of story. If I decide to seek employment elsewhere, I am not in any way obligated to tell my boss about it. I just have to honor my contract.
it's not just about the contract. people are not emotionless robots, there are human factors involved as well. don't tell me you won't at least feel a bit hurt if you were led around like that.
I like to watch Dragon's stream but I'm not a fan in particular. I seem to remember him saying something like "I want to have SC2 as a hobby, or find new opportunities" (not a direct quote, just how I remember it). This is a new opportunity and he should be proud!
Jessica, however, seems to be a bit of a cry-baby. She is worried about team Slayers reputation and then tweets stuff like this..? Unfortunate for such a great time to be represented by her in those situations..
Jessica's allowed to have an opinion or emotion on the matter that you may not agree with. Heck, the majority might not even agree with. However, I'm sure you have opinions or emotions on a certain topic that the mass doesn't agree with and I imagine you tell them something along the lines of "deal with it."
On March 07 2012 18:56 Terrafros wrote: Though I feel Jessica goes too far in her tweets, the point she is raising is essential.
Rather than being upfront and honest, Dragon gave a false reason for wanting to leave Slayers. Very unprofessional, and very immature.
Or maybe he didn't give a false reason, wasn't decided on any particular team, and Jessica isn't a mind reader.
This is absurd behavior on her part. A team is an employer, end of story. If I decide to seek employment elsewhere, I am not in any way obligated to tell my boss about it. I just have to honor my contract.
As many, many people have already said: There's a huge difference between asian and western views on stuff like this. Regardless of how you personally feel people should act culture is ingrained and impossible to just change over night.
On March 07 2012 19:52 ShotgunMike wrote: I like to watch Dragon's stream but I'm not a fan in particular. I seem to remember him saying something like "I want to have SC2 as a hobby, or find new opportunities" (not a direct quote, just how I remember it). This is a new opportunity and he should be proud!
Jessica, however, seems to be a bit of a cry-baby. She is worried about team Slayers reputation and then tweets stuff like this..? Unfortunate for such a great time to be represented by her in those situations..
she is still a woman, and they do tend to be a bit more emotional then men. also given the context of how dragon left the team and then joined the new team, i'd say she has grounds to feel like what she is feeling now
I don't understand really, so Jessica is upset because Dragon left SlayerS and didn't tell them? So she heard about it on twitter? Or was it something more I missed?
Sorry it's hard to understand the translations. :/
Ye, plus once she did find out, he explained its because he no longer wants to play sc2 professionally, but apparently was planning on joining a new team all along
Can we really call him a liar for this? Everyone has a change of mind at some point, sometimes even instantly. I believe Dragon's initial intention was to go back to work as he was thinking of leaving Slayers weeks before he actually left. He probably changed his mind and try to give pro-gaming another shot. If he didn't find a team within a month, he was going back to work regardless.
How can you claim ownership of a person. What he does after he leaves the team isn't her business. He doesn't owe anyone an explanation. Especially since SlayerS was his team by name only. He might as well have been in the SlayerS clan, which anyone can join.
How has he given them a bad rep at all? For free he gave them exposure by being the most popular SlayerS streamer.
On March 07 2012 18:56 Terrafros wrote: Though I feel Jessica goes too far in her tweets, the point she is raising is essential.
Rather than being upfront and honest, Dragon gave a false reason for wanting to leave Slayers. Very unprofessional, and very immature.
Or maybe he didn't give a false reason, wasn't decided on any particular team, and Jessica isn't a mind reader.
This is absurd behavior on her part. A team is an employer, end of story. If I decide to seek employment elsewhere, I am not in any way obligated to tell my boss about it. I just have to honor my contract.
it's not just about the contract. people are not emotionless robots, there are human factors involved as well. don't tell me you won't at least feel a bit hurt if you were led around like that.
It's not leading around, for the love of god.
Jessica is not the "mother" of every person on Slayers. She's their boss. Their employer.
If I am unhappy at my current job and resign, I don't have to tell my employer if and when I decide to get a new job.
The idea that a progaming team, management included, is an actual family is a crock of shit perpetuated by people who, in this metaphor, would be the Mom and Dad controlling purse strings.
Yes of course you can feel kinship and gratitude and loyalty towards your teammates and even your manager. But it is not an obligation to do so, and has to be mutually earned, instead of assumed a priori.
On March 07 2012 18:56 Terrafros wrote: Though I feel Jessica goes too far in her tweets, the point she is raising is essential.
Rather than being upfront and honest, Dragon gave a false reason for wanting to leave Slayers. Very unprofessional, and very immature.
Or maybe he didn't give a false reason, wasn't decided on any particular team, and Jessica isn't a mind reader.
This is absurd behavior on her part. A team is an employer, end of story. If I decide to seek employment elsewhere, I am not in any way obligated to tell my boss about it. I just have to honor my contract.
As many, many people have already said: There's a huge difference between asian and western views on stuff like this. Regardless of how you personally feel people should act culture is ingrained and impossible to just change over night.
I understand that, but that doesn't mean I need to respect it, or not criticize someone for acting in this way on a global stage, which the SC2 scene most certainly is.
Much as I dislike Western attitudes towards sex and violence (too prudish about the former, too permissive about the latter), I also dislike Asian attitudes towards professional relationships. It is simply a way too convenient mindset perpetuated by those who are in positions to exploit their subordinates.
This is not appropriate public behavior from a person representing a major team with international sponsors.
A. Korean culture is different from "western" one, values different things (differently), expects different behaviour from people, etc.
B. I think the people creating "the drama" are the people overblowing Jessica's statement of disappointment with Dragon's behaviour towards his clan and teammates.
So Dragon changes his mind on the direction he wishes to take his life and his former employer spouts verbal drama. Jessica looks petty in these tweets.
On March 07 2012 18:56 Terrafros wrote: Though I feel Jessica goes too far in her tweets, the point she is raising is essential.
Rather than being upfront and honest, Dragon gave a false reason for wanting to leave Slayers. Very unprofessional, and very immature.
Or maybe he didn't give a false reason, wasn't decided on any particular team, and Jessica isn't a mind reader.
This is absurd behavior on her part. A team is an employer, end of story. If I decide to seek employment elsewhere, I am not in any way obligated to tell my boss about it. I just have to honor my contract.
it's not just about the contract. people are not emotionless robots, there are human factors involved as well. don't tell me you won't at least feel a bit hurt if you were led around like that.
It's not leading around, for the love of god.
Jessica is not the "mother" of every person on Slayers. She's their boss. Their employer.
If I am unhappy at my current job and resign, I don't have to tell my employer if and when I decide to get a new job.
The idea that a progaming team, management included, is an actual family is a crock of shit perpetuated by people who, in this metaphor, would be the Mom and Dad controlling purse strings.
Yes of course you can feel kinship and gratitude and loyalty towards your teammates and even your manager. But it is not an obligation to do so, and has to be mutually earned, instead of assumed a priori.
and i would say that jessica has earnt it from what she has sacrificed to help the team, not to mention how the rest of the players in the team look up to her and boxer as their big brother and sister.
besides, you are trying to view this from a western point of view. in an eastern context, especially in korea, the culture there has already dictated that since they are your elders, you need to respect them, more so if it's your team manager.
the way progaming teams in korea work is probably very different and alien to most people outside their culture, add to that the traditional korean cultural view, it would be very dissimilar to the workings of a normal job
On March 07 2012 18:58 Torte de Lini wrote: Y'know the issue with Jessica's laments is that it now actually creates a public problem. What is the public going to do about knowing how you feel about Dragon? Didn't anyone interpret Dragon's move as a backstab to SlayerS and if so, did you assume it was a valid theory or idea? Well Jessica has now just validated it and on top of that, SlayerS name gets tarnished because people will now associate this whole issue with Slayers in the back of their mind.
Before, it was all about Dragon going to Millenium after being teamless and reconsider going back to professional player rather than just an entertainer due to his past [and who knows if SlayerS would have put him back on the roster, especially with CoCa just returning). No one thought of it as a cowardly-way to get away from SlayerS, even if it was, it's not that huge of an issue for the public. Just the team and that team should complain purely amongst friends and themselves, the public won't side with you and even if they do, he's not going back SlayerS and you're certainly not taking him back.
So who wins here? You make an issue, you furthered it with outrageous potential claims and now you just tarnished your team's name. That's three strikes you're out.
What.
SlayerS name didn't get tarnished in my eyes. How does people associating the issue with SlayerS in the back of their mind tarnish anything?
There's some misunderstanding, perhaps. But nothing is more dramatic than 'That's three strikes you're out'.
What? When I think of SlayerS now, I will think of this and all the other issues with them such as the CoCa issue. Jessica and SlayerS Eve, how she is going to sue people for bad-mouthing SlayerS, etc. It stacks, if she didn't want people to think badly of SlayerS based on Dragon's actions, why raise the issue up at all. If Dragon leaves Millenium now or "lies/deceives" them for another team, it would be on him and the association would be purely on him.
Now it's about Dragon and SlayerS and just puts him in the dirt in addition to giving SlayerS a pointless victim role if anything or an organization with a tempered manager.
The three strikes thing was me trying to be the writer. As you can tell, I'm not Fitzgerald.
I don't know how your mind works, but when I think Slayers, I think of Boxer, MMA.. etc. When I think SlayerS, SC2 comes to mind. My objection is with the fact that you took your thinking and portrayed it as the 'people's. Sorry I wasn't being very clear. I'm no Fitzgerald either. :D
On March 07 2012 20:39 ChriS-X wrote: and i would say that jessica has earnt it from what she has sacrificed to help the team, not to mention how the rest of the players in the team look up to her and boxer as their big brother and sister.
besides, you are trying to view this from a western point of view. in an eastern context, especially in korea, the culture there has already dictated that since they are your elders, you need to respect them, more so if it's your team manager.
the way progaming teams in korea work is probably very different and alien to most people outside their culture, add to that the traditional korean cultural view, it would be very dissimilar to the workings of a normal job
I'm sorry, but that seems like a very convenient "cultural context" for people who make lucrative sponsorship and endorsement deals, and a very shitty "cultural context" for people who get whatever trickles down.
It's not all that different the "work ethic" horseshit they peddle in the US, so it's not necessarily an East/West thing.
I am not viewing this from a western perspective, I am viewing this from a modern liberal democracy perspective.
If progaming takes off in India, should we also be respectful of the caste system?
On March 07 2012 17:48 Atoissen wrote: Poor Jessica, I dont think she is very angry, she seems more hurt. I think she putts alott of emotion and trust into her players, so they become somewhat of a family, Slayers fight and care for eachother.
From what we can see, sure. Looks like a false facade though if you ask me. If not I'd almost call it 'freaky'.
And most of us dont understand the way of the Koreans, they care much more about honesty and honour then "foreigners".
I don't buy this one bit, honour and honesty is just bullcrap to put on a false show. I think they are just as dirty as the next businessman. Coach Lee incidents, corruptive government, etc?
On March 07 2012 17:48 Atoissen wrote: Poor Jessica, I dont think she is very angry, she seems more hurt. I think she putts alott of emotion and trust into her players, so they become somewhat of a family, Slayers fight and care for eachother.
From what we can see, sure. Looks like a false facade though if you ask me. If not I'd almost call it 'freaky'.
And most of us dont understand the way of the Koreans, they care much more about honesty and honour then "foreigners".
I don't buy this one bit, honour and honesty is just bullcrap to put on a false show. I think they are just as dirty as the next businessman. Coach Lee incidents, corruptive government, etc?
Yeah, European culture used to be all about honor and tradition and respecting authority too. And that culminated in millions upon millions of people marched into trenches to die for "honor and loyalty" in the name of King and country.
Just because something is cultural doesn't make it right and immune to criticism.
She seems like a very passonate lady, I really don't know any more I just presumed that Dragon, Golden and Sleep were kicked out of slayers. There wasn't really anything that made me think otherwise but I just presumed that. I got to say though what she is saying sounds like she feels pretty hurt about the whole thing and that is a shame.
On March 07 2012 21:13 FlukyS wrote: She seems like a very passonate lady, I really don't know any more I just presumed that Dragon, Golden and Sleep were kicked out of slayers. There wasn't really anything that made me think otherwise but I just presumed that. I got to say though what she is saying sounds like she feels pretty hurt about the whole thing and that is a shame.
So we're calling tantrum throwing and recklessness "passion" now? Obviously anyone who is civil and polite is just completely apathetic!
If this is a bad PR move for SlayerS on Jessica's part, it's not because it's a bad PR move. It's because the people on the receiving end are too stupid to separate a personal opinion from an organization.
FYI, it's Jessica's twitter account, not SlayerS.
Edit: You know, like in those instances when you hear "The following opinions do not represent blah blah blah". It's like that, except it should just be assumed because it's her own personal twitter account.
It honestly upsets me a bit that people think that Jessica's reaction is unreasonable. Maybe it really is a cultural thing as mentioned earlier, as I am Korean
Seriously, I hope that people would stop to talk about everthing publicly. She can feel bad about it, being hurt and all... it's normal. But going on twitter to talk about it is NOT, that's for sure.
Playing the victim publicly, after an internal issue, is making you look silly and petty.
"The people who take his side seem more ridiculous... "
Seriously?
I love SlayerS, but god, someone should tell her to stop using twitter for those shits. She is making all the team look really bad, that's for sure.
On March 07 2012 21:31 Xalorian wrote: Seriously, I hope that people would stop to talk about everthing publicly. She can feel bad about it, being hurt and all... it's normal. But going on twitter to talk about it is NOT, that's for sure.
Playing the victim publicly, after an internal issue, is making you look silly and petty.
"The people who take his side seem more ridiculous... "
Seriously?
I love SlayerS, but god, someone should tell her to stop using twitter for those shits. She is making all the team look really bad, that's for sure.
It's her PERSONAL twitter. It's pretty much implied she's doing it in her own capacity as an individual.
Actually I think the Korean culture, particularly sponsors, will see it as respect towards Jessica only because of her outwardly care about her team and the quality of her players.
Wow, seriously what is Jessica doing? Someone really needs to stop her. Everyone knows tweeting or using facebook talking about things like this can get you fired from your job and end up embarrassing you in the future.
On March 07 2012 21:31 Xalorian wrote: Seriously, I hope that people would stop to talk about everthing publicly. She can feel bad about it, being hurt and all... it's normal. But going on twitter to talk about it is NOT, that's for sure.
Playing the victim publicly, after an internal issue, is making you look silly and petty.
"The people who take his side seem more ridiculous... "
Seriously?
I love SlayerS, but god, someone should tell her to stop using twitter for those shits. She is making all the team look really bad, that's for sure.
It's her PERSONAL twitter. It's pretty much implied she's doing it in her own capacity as an individual.
AND?
What the fuck about it?
If I own or manage a team, I can't just go on twitter and tell shit to try to gain people sympathy and being silly and petty about a team issue, just because it's my personnal twitter. That is retarded.
And stop about this "It's a korean cultural thing!"... So Korea love useless drama about internal business? I, for sure, don't... and SlayerS need and want the support from all over the world, not just from Korea, or they will just go bankrupt. So, no, sorry, but it makes no senses, It's a good thing if Korean are not seeing this as Petty and Silly, but must of us do, here, that's for sure. Twitter is not Korean only.
Clash of cultures. I don't necessarily think he should be playing competitively so soon after doing the purported cheating he did. Oh well its not like he shouldn't get a second chance.
Some people just get hurt so bad when someone breaks their trust.
Well, she's definitely brought up a fair amount of suspect content in the past via twitter, and I've never respected her for it, but it seems she means well. Feel kinda sorry for her, but she really needs to chill.
I am not going to argue one way or the other but I am pretty sure Dragon's move can be explained as:
1. He was B-team in SlayerS and only got one month in the training house (in recent times at least). 2. Then SlayerS started collaborating with EG which probably reduced the available spots for the B-teamers. 3. Dragon work for a living and can't keep up with SlayerS training regime, so he quits and looks for a team with a more relaxed schedule OR somewhere where he can live in a teamhouse. 4. He gets an opportunity with Millenium.
On March 07 2012 21:31 Xalorian wrote: Seriously, I hope that people would stop to talk about everthing publicly. She can feel bad about it, being hurt and all... it's normal. But going on twitter to talk about it is NOT, that's for sure.
Playing the victim publicly, after an internal issue, is making you look silly and petty.
"The people who take his side seem more ridiculous... "
Seriously?
I love SlayerS, but god, someone should tell her to stop using twitter for those shits. She is making all the team look really bad, that's for sure.
It's her PERSONAL twitter. It's pretty much implied she's doing it in her own capacity as an individual.
There is no such thing as a personal twitter for a public person.
Twitter is a PUBLIC service. If you have personal feelings you don't feel like sharing, don't publish them online for the world to see!
I suppose it's a cultural thingy which makes her upset etc.. but tbh even in their culture they need to realize that she cant treat ex-members like this and call them out on twitter.., THIS makes the team SlayerS look bad. It's her own fault basically. Ignorant person Imo.
On March 07 2012 17:05 .Sic. wrote: Before people start taking sides based on her English tweets, I'd like to translate her Korean tweets so that people don't misunderstand her or jump to conclusions.
Slayers_Jessica: 스타2를 취미로 할거라고 팀탈퇴하더니.. 새로운 팀으로 가네..쩝 타팀에 간다고 못가게 한적도 없고..다른 선수들은 본인의 의사를 정확히 말하고 팀이적했는데.. 그 선수들이랑 참 비교된다.응? 거짓말하는 건 좀 좋지 않은데?? 간다고 안막는단다... 거짓말하는게 참 기분이 나쁘구나..다른데가서는 그러지마라 응? 우리팀 출신이라고 자랑스럽게 얘기도 하지마렴.. 난 너처럼 거짓말하는 선수가 우리팀에 잇엇다는 게 부끄럽다. 갈수록 실망주는 사람들이 느는구나..이래서 키워봐야 소용없단 말이 맞는건가? 내가 왜 이러고있지? http://twtkr.olleh.com/view.php?long_id=L10NjE
He said he'd play sc2 as a hobby but he joins a new team. We never stopped anyone from joining different teams, and other players directly state their intentions and leave the team... he's really incomparable to those players huh? It's not good to lie?? We don't stop people from leaving, so the fact that you lied really hurts my feelings. Don't do that on the other teams please? Don't be proud of your Slayers roots... The fact that we had a liar like you on the team is embarrassing. As time goes on, more people are starting to dissapoint.. maybe this is why there's a saying "you get nothing out of raising people"? Why am I doing this?
xSixSleep: @Slayers_Jessica ㅠㅠ기사랑 다르길래뭐지 싶엇어요...
(sad crying face) it was different from the article so I was wondering what it was
SlayersJessica: @xSixSleep 누구 말하는지 알지? 너나 명환이 같이 사실도 말하지 못하고 거짓말이나 하는 겁쟁이같으니라고....난 저런애들이 싫다.. 저런 애들을 내 새끼라고 키운 내가 미친게지...
You know who I am talking about right? He couldn't tell the truth like you or myung hwan (golden) and lied like a coward... I don't like kids like that... I was crazy for raising kids like them as if they were my own children.
xSixSleep: @Slayers_Jessica ㅠㅠㅠㅠ
(crying face again)
Slayers_Jessica: 사실 팀탈퇴도 본인이 자기트윗에 떡하니 올려서 탈퇴햇다고 해서 나도 그때서야알았다는거지. 말도없이 탈퇴하고 이유를 물으니 취미로 하고 직장복귀한다길래 그러라 했더니..
I found out that he left Slayers only after reading his post on twitter. He left without saying a word to me so I asked him why, and he said that he wanted to play sc2 as a hobby and go back to his job.
I heard the news, it must be like getting hit in the back of your head... please let go of your anger..
Slayers_Jessica: @Empire_viOLet 그걸 편드는애들이 더웃겨 ... 질투하냐는 말에 개뿜었다. 거기가서도 또 그런짓하면 우리팀 욕먹을까 무섭다 설마 거기선 안그러겠지? 인기관리하려면말야.
The people who take his side seem more ridiculous... It was ridiculous when someone asked me if I was jealous. I am scared that he'll pull the same thing on the new team and give Slayers a bad rep. He won't do that right? He's got popularity to retain?
EDIT: mistranslation on the 3rd tweet, I'd like to apologize for that it was a confusing construction and I misread it.
Jessica's frustration is understandable from my point of view.
It seems to me from the limited information available that the player who left felt badly about leaving and may not have wanted to tell others, including Jessica, for fear of a negative reaction from them.
If this is the case, it means this player didn't consider the worse consequences which would come from not being honest with people.
This suggests to me that the player is just like me, and doesn't appreciate the work that others put in for their own sake. They don't consider the effort invested in them by those around them (the Slayers team members, in this case), and they only consider what happens to themselves - i.e. they may feel bad for a few days after seeing Jessica sad when they tell her they are leaving. This is in comparison to not feeling bad, at least in the short-term, by avoiding to tell Jessica that they were leaving the team because there was something they didn't like about it, or because there was something that they preferred about another team.
This is commonly called being selfish. It's associated with being brought up by parents who give too much. Which is quite common in SE Asia, I guess.
On March 07 2012 21:41 ShatterZer0 wrote: EH, she had emotional capital in them...
And a child has emotional capital in the toy their parents refused to buy them.
It seems pretty far-fetched that she had a deep, personal relationship with Dragon. It seems highly likely that she feels slighted and disrespected as the boss.
Well, what does she expect to hear from Dragon? Even I can see he's not gonna play any pro tournament while he's in Slayers. It's actually nice of him to ask for leave in a way that doesn't hurt her feelings. If Slayers really cared, they would make a effort to make him happy on the team. Well, now he's gone, and he found a team that accomodates him AFTER he left Slayers. And this is not like he left on monday and found a team on tuesday. It was actually weeks before Dragon was picked up by Millenium. And what does Jessica do? Smear it all over the internet. It's bloody petty that's what it is.
Sigh.... Every time it looks like Dragon will finally be able to enjoy his happiness, something always screws with him. Whether it be his cheating past (which is his fault), Katu, Jessica....
I just want to make this clear, I asked Dragon a while ago why he left in chat, this was before he really took off with popularity, he said he couldn't make the team house, and that, from my understanding, there were way too many good players on SlayerS for him to even remotely have a chance at making even the B team never mind A team.
Now, one can always come to assumptions of his reason for leaving, was he really looking for another team at the time, was he indecisive, or did he lie because he didn't want to hurt the feelings of a team that gave him, essentially, a second chance. We'll never know.
I understand lying is a big aspect of Korean culture, but I also think representing SlayerS in any way, you should not be making private things public, no matter how angry you are, as that negatively affects not only your image, but the image of your team as well - even though you aren't representing them because it's your personal twitter.
Side note: The tweet of him looking for a team is months old, and it was well known he was looking for a team, why this is being brought up now, I have no idea.
Another note: I'm a Dragon fan, and I think both parties should be accountable for what has gone down. In terms of Dragon lying about his future intentions, and Jessica making a huge drama over his true reasons for leaving SlayerS.
On March 07 2012 21:55 birdmanilikeflying wrote: Jessica's frustration is understandable from my point of view.
It seems to me from the limited information available that the player who left felt badly about leaving and may not have wanted to tell others, including Jessica, for fear of a negative reaction from them.
If this is the case, it means this player didn't consider the worse consequences which would come from not being honest with people.
This suggests to me that the player is just like me, and doesn't appreciate the work that others put in for their own sake. They don't consider the effort invested in them by those around them (the Slayers team members, in this case), and they only consider what happens to themselves - i.e. they may feel bad for a few days after seeing Jessica sad when they tell her they are leaving. This is in comparison to not feeling bad, at least in the short-term, by avoiding to tell Jessica that they were leaving the team because there was something they didn't like about it, or because there was something that they preferred about another team.
This is commonly called being selfish. It's associated with being brought up by parents who give too much. Which is quite common in SE Asia, I guess.
This is just my hypothesis...
The amount of cognitive dissonance in your post makes my brain hurt. Why is it that whenever these "asian values" things come up, it's ALWAYS the assumption that the person in power is utterly blameless, a selfless champion who gave their subordinates their everything? Why is the subordinate ALWAYS assumed to be deceitful and selfish?
Why isn't it possible that Jessica is making wild assumptions, and getting offended because she thinks her authority was undermined? Why isn't it possible that Dragon left Slayers to find new opportunities to support himself (as he wasn't receiving any income from Slayers), and then received an offer from Mill?
On March 07 2012 21:57 TheChairman wrote: Didn't Dragon tweet in like January that he was looking for a team? Why is this just coming out now?
He did, and i completely agree. Also, this sounds alot like Jessica is forbidding him from ever joining a new team and abandoning all dreams of playing SC2 professionally because there's a chance Dragon pulls another Dragon and SlayerS gets bad reputation because of it.
Did i get it right? Edit: Why is she arguing over Twitter when this is clearly an internal discussion between Dragon, Slayers and Millenium?
On March 07 2012 22:19 Faust852 wrote: Jessica is the one who gives bad reputation to Slayers with her useless dramas.
Except that most of the Korean community don't see this as bad rep, and even here in the foreign community, you see a lot of people supporting her. Oh, and did I mention Slayers won the most popular team award last year?
On March 07 2012 22:19 Faust852 wrote: Jessica is the one who gives bad reputation to Slayers with her useless dramas.
Except that most of the Korean community don't see this as bad rep, and even here in the foreign community, you see a lot of people supporting her. Oh, and did I mention Slayers won the most popular team award last year?
so you think what she is doing when she is calling out ex-teamplayers on twitter and insulting them is alright? Is that how you make sure the team gets a good reputation?
I don't get the "omg stop her!" mentality here. She's insulted and hurt that she was told one thing, and something drastically different happened. If anything this kind of response gets an emotional person like me more on her/slayers side. She's been stabbed in the back. She doesn't seem miffed at Sleep/Golden because they told her "hey, we're going to go looking for a foreign team" which was up front and honest. If you've ever felt stabbed in the back you should be able to understand the situation.
On March 07 2012 22:27 Noobity wrote: I don't get the "omg stop her!" mentality here. She's insulted and hurt that she was told one thing, and something drastically different happened. If anything this kind of response gets an emotional person like me more on her/slayers side. She's been stabbed in the back. She doesn't seem miffed at Sleep/Golden because they told her "hey, we're going to go looking for a foreign team" which was up front and honest. If you've ever felt stabbed in the back you should be able to understand the situation.
He's joining a new team.....not murdering her first born after she let him sleep in the house.
I think people are also overreacting to her tweets.
On March 07 2012 22:27 Noobity wrote: I don't get the "omg stop her!" mentality here. She's insulted and hurt that she was told one thing, and something drastically different happened. If anything this kind of response gets an emotional person like me more on her/slayers side. She's been stabbed in the back. She doesn't seem miffed at Sleep/Golden because they told her "hey, we're going to go looking for a foreign team" which was up front and honest. If you've ever felt stabbed in the back you should be able to understand the situation.
How was she stabbed ?
On March 07 2012 21:52 StatorFlux wrote: I am not going to argue one way or the other but I am pretty sure Dragon's move can be explained as:
1. He was B-team in SlayerS and only got one month in the training house (in recent times at least). 2. Then SlayerS started collaborating with EG which probably reduced the available spots for the B-teamers. 3. Dragon work for a living and can't keep up with SlayerS training regime, so he quits and looks for a team with a more relaxed schedule OR somewhere where he can live in a teamhouse. 4. He gets an opportunity with Millenium.
Dragon saw a good opportunity, and he took it. If he had stopped SC2, he would probably have a shitty job. Here he can get a name and be recognize for his skill.
People should forgive him seriously. He's not like Deezer, he's not a BM, he's very funny, respectful and funny to watch.
Be happy for him, and if it's to hard for you, ignore him but please, STOP BASHING HIM, I think he was enough punished for what he had done.
On March 07 2012 22:19 Faust852 wrote: Jessica is the one who gives bad reputation to Slayers with her useless dramas.
Except that most of the Korean community don't see this as bad rep, and even here in the foreign community, you see a lot of people supporting her. Oh, and did I mention Slayers won the most popular team award last year?
so you think what she is doing when she is calling out ex-teamplayers on twitter and insulting them is alright? Is that how you make sure the team gets a good reputation?
It's definitely not hurting their reputation, as I have explained in my last post
[Yeah, European culture used to be all about honor and tradition and respecting authority too. And that culminated in millions upon millions of people marched into trenches to die for "honor and loyalty" in the name of King and country.
Just because something is cultural doesn't make it right and immune to criticism.
European culture has at no point in history been even close to being similar to eastern cultures.
On March 07 2012 22:19 Faust852 wrote: Jessica is the one who gives bad reputation to Slayers with her useless dramas.
Except that most of the Korean community don't see this as bad rep, and even here in the foreign community, you see a lot of people supporting her. Oh, and did I mention Slayers won the most popular team award last year?
so you think what she is doing when she is calling out ex-teamplayers on twitter and insulting them is alright? Is that how you make sure the team gets a good reputation?
It's definitely not hurting their reputation, as I have explained in my last post
As I explained in my previous post, she is indirectly hurting their reputation.
On March 07 2012 20:39 ChriS-X wrote: and i would say that jessica has earnt it from what she has sacrificed to help the team, not to mention how the rest of the players in the team look up to her and boxer as their big brother and sister.
besides, you are trying to view this from a western point of view. in an eastern context, especially in korea, the culture there has already dictated that since they are your elders, you need to respect them, more so if it's your team manager.
the way progaming teams in korea work is probably very different and alien to most people outside their culture, add to that the traditional korean cultural view, it would be very dissimilar to the workings of a normal job
I'm sorry, but that seems like a very convenient "cultural context" for people who make lucrative sponsorship and endorsement deals, and a very shitty "cultural context" for people who get whatever trickles down.
It's not all that different the "work ethic" horseshit they peddle in the US, so it's not necessarily an East/West thing.
I am not viewing this from a western perspective, I am viewing this from a modern liberal democracy perspective.
If progaming takes off in India, should we also be respectful of the caste system?
So much this. For all those crying "it's a family", I don't know how your parents raised you, but the expectations of Korean team managers with regard to their players seem more in line with a master-slave relationship than a parent-child one.
Anybody else see a parallel between what the Cavs owner did when Lebron left and this? It was almost universal that how Lebron handled his situation was wrong, but then when the owner publicly makes a statement that crapped all over him everyone said they could understand why nobody would ever want to play for him. Why would you want to play under someone like Jessica, or any team shes affiliated with, when this happens over and over?
Jessica has the right to be upset and say it out loud, but I cannot agree on the way she did it. She should have just pointed out that Dragon promised to her to never play professionally again and left for the fans to judge.
Kinda like Lukaschenko told the German foreign minister that he'd rather be a tyrant, than gay, and to which the German minister just shrugged it off saying that such a statement judges itself.
Every time any incident happens to SlayerS, Jessica seems to freak out and chuck all her toys out of the pram. I can't blame Dragon for wanting to make a speedy exit before he got thrown in the dungeon with CoCa
On March 07 2012 22:19 Faust852 wrote: Jessica is the one who gives bad reputation to Slayers with her useless dramas.
Except that most of the Korean community don't see this as bad rep, and even here in the foreign community, you see a lot of people supporting her. Oh, and did I mention Slayers won the most popular team award last year?
so you think what she is doing when she is calling out ex-teamplayers on twitter and insulting them is alright? Is that how you make sure the team gets a good reputation?
It's definitely not hurting their reputation, as I have explained in my last post
Because you explained it, it's definitely true, right?
I lost respect even more for her. Most post in the thread is against what she said.
So, obviously, that is hurting their reputation. The real question is more like if it hurted it a little bit or a lot.
I don't think dragon wanted to lie entirely. I think that from the way jessica handles these things he was just afraid of her >.>. But He should have just been honest with Slayers from the start
Oh man, Jessica my dear, what have you done? This is a PR problem, if she had an issue with this she should have contacted him personally, instead she chose to call him out on twitter. As a business operator this is not a good decision.
When will people stop defending Dragon? He has stream cheated, exploited on ladder, lied about quitting as a pro gamer, and now this. Only becase he's korean and has an entertaining stream he gets special treatment?
On March 07 2012 23:03 Odal wrote: When will people stop defending Dragon? He has stream cheated, exploited on ladder, lied about quitting as a pro gamer, and now this. Only becase he's korean and has an entertaining stream he gets special treatment?
Regardless of what he's done in the past, the problem is how Jessica is handling the situation. From a PR perspective you NEVER call out a former employee after they've left, ever. I'd fire anyone on my PR team for pulling a stunt like this. You never let your emotions take over to this extent publicly.
On March 07 2012 22:19 Faust852 wrote: Jessica is the one who gives bad reputation to Slayers with her useless dramas.
Except that most of the Korean community don't see this as bad rep, and even here in the foreign community, you see a lot of people supporting her. Oh, and did I mention Slayers won the most popular team award last year?
so you think what she is doing when she is calling out ex-teamplayers on twitter and insulting them is alright? Is that how you make sure the team gets a good reputation?
It's definitely not hurting their reputation, as I have explained in my last post
Because you explained it, it's definitely true, right?
I lost respect even more for her. Most post in the thread is against what she said.
So, obviously, that is hurting their reputation. The real question is more like if it hurted it a little bit or a lot.
It's always the vocal minority that speaks up, so it's natural to have a lot of posts in this particular thread against what she said. But fact is, even in this thread there are a lot of people defending her; and I'm sure even more people who just don't care or unaffected to post. And it is true that the korean community didn't see this as a negative PR thing.
For people saying that she needs to stop and its a PR disaster I think we all need to remember this is her personal twitter account. And while she posts some things in English to help her practice and so foreign fans know whats up on the team she has the right to post her opinion on her own twitter.
But I do feel bad for SlayerS as a team if Dragon didn't even explain to them directly when he left or anything like that.
I'm getting so sick of this nonsense to be honest.
This isn't the first time Jessica busts out some top tier histrionics and I doubt it will be the last. It's not just about being emotionally invested in her team, I'm sure there are plenty of managers and coaches who are invested in theirs just as well. It's about behaving like a child and throwing fits in public.
On March 07 2012 18:01 Asha` wrote: It's not surprising she'd feel a bit hurt by this. They gave a known cheater another chance and even welcomed him into their team house, and he repays them by slinking off under the cover of some flimsy lies to go and find a foreign team who'll pay him for being funny more than for his play =/
Definitely agree. And it's clearly about Dragon.
I also think she needs to be sooo careful with what becomes public though. Is it "acceptable" (professional for her, her team, her sponsors, etc.) for her to be saying such things out in the open? I'm not entirely sure. It could probably have a little more tact if she desperately needed to make a statement, and I really don't think that anyone is going to think any less of SlayerS just because of Dragon anyway >.>
Everything she says is now a reflection on SlayerS. Her opinion- especially when relating to SC2- is part of SlayerS's opinion. She needs to be super careful with her wording in general. She needs to always be on guard with what she says.
I'm getting a little tired of people saying things like "OMG dragon he was stream cheater, he lied, bla bla bla". When in fact he apologized for the stream cheating, (never admitted to the accusation of map hacking), he didn't lie he said he was taking a break from the sc2 pro scene to get more serious with work and then he changed his mind. Does nobody else see how all of this is completely socially acceptable? Dragon doesn't live in a fantasy world he has to take care of his needs. If joining a foreign team so that he can get paid and live in a team house is what is taking care of his needs then so be it. If a company you joined doesn't offer you better benefits then another company and you feel like you could do better and have the opportunity to YOU WOULD TAKE THAT OTHER JOB!!! Stop living in a dream world where starcraft is the only factor to take into consideration here, this is real life with real life decisions that have to be made. Any other environment this is ok but when it comes to starcraft NOOooOoOoOOoooo. If you want Esports to become a business and become officially recognized by the entire world START TREATING IT LIKE ONE!
On March 07 2012 23:24 Doomville wrote: I'm getting a little tired of people saying things like "OMG dragon he was stream cheater, he lied, bla bla bla". When in fact he apologized for the stream cheating, (never admitted to the accusation of map hacking), he didn't lie he said he was taking a break from the sc2 pro scene to get more serious with work and then he changed his mind. Does nobody else see how all of this is completely socially acceptable? Dragon doesn't live in a fantasy world he has to take care of his needs. If joining a foreign team so that he can get paid and live in a team house is what is taking care of his needs then so be it. If a company you joined doesn't offer you better benefits then another company and you feel like you could do better and have the opportunity to YOU WOULD TAKE THAT OTHER JOB!!! Stop living in a dream world where starcraft is the only factor to take into consideration here, this is real life with real life decisions that have to be made. Any other environment this is ok but when it comes to starcraft NOOooOoOoOOoooo. If you want Esports to become a business and become officially recognized by the entire world START TREATING IT LIKE ONE!
Again, pure western mindset, you're really not taking the Korean cultural and their value into consideration.
Again, pure western mindset, you're really not taking the Korean cultural and their value into consideration.
That may be, but who has the more successful teams business wise right now? You cant say things like "oh thats western mindset" because it INCLUDES the western hemisphere. Everyone needs to stop thinking in terms of korea vs. foreigner and start thinking in terms of Esports vs. everyone else if you wanna make this a real thing. And when you start thinking in those terms you cant just sit there and excuse one side of things and then say that it's acceptable on the other. You decide a firm ground or the Esports foundation is going to crumble from the ground up.
On March 07 2012 23:24 Doomville wrote: I'm getting a little tired of people saying things like "OMG dragon he was stream cheater, he lied, bla bla bla". When in fact he apologized for the stream cheating, (never admitted to the accusation of map hacking), he didn't lie he said he was taking a break from the sc2 pro scene to get more serious with work and then he changed his mind. Does nobody else see how all of this is completely socially acceptable? Dragon doesn't live in a fantasy world he has to take care of his needs. If joining a foreign team so that he can get paid and live in a team house is what is taking care of his needs then so be it. If a company you joined doesn't offer you better benefits then another company and you feel like you could do better and have the opportunity to YOU WOULD TAKE THAT OTHER JOB!!! Stop living in a dream world where starcraft is the only factor to take into consideration here, this is real life with real life decisions that have to be made. Any other environment this is ok but when it comes to starcraft NOOooOoOoOOoooo. If you want Esports to become a business and become officially recognized by the entire world START TREATING IT LIKE ONE!
Again, pure western mindset, you're really not taking the Korean cultural and their value into consideration.
Why would you? Culture-BS dosn't make things right.
On March 07 2012 23:24 Doomville wrote: I'm getting a little tired of people saying things like "OMG dragon he was stream cheater, he lied, bla bla bla". When in fact he apologized for the stream cheating, (never admitted to the accusation of map hacking), he didn't lie he said he was taking a break from the sc2 pro scene to get more serious with work and then he changed his mind. Does nobody else see how all of this is completely socially acceptable? Dragon doesn't live in a fantasy world he has to take care of his needs. If joining a foreign team so that he can get paid and live in a team house is what is taking care of his needs then so be it. If a company you joined doesn't offer you better benefits then another company and you feel like you could do better and have the opportunity to YOU WOULD TAKE THAT OTHER JOB!!! Stop living in a dream world where starcraft is the only factor to take into consideration here, this is real life with real life decisions that have to be made. Any other environment this is ok but when it comes to starcraft NOOooOoOoOOoooo. If you want Esports to become a business and become officially recognized by the entire world START TREATING IT LIKE ONE!
Again, pure western mindset, you're really not taking the Korean cultural and their value into consideration.
Why would you? Culture-BS dosn't make things right.
The irony in that post. What defines what is "right" and "wrong" is completely subjective based on morals and values, which can be different for different cultures.
Again, pure western mindset, you're really not taking the Korean cultural and their value into consideration.
That may be, but who has the more successful teams business wise right now? You cant say things like "oh thats western mindset" because it INCLUDES the western hemisphere. Everyone needs to stop thinking in terms of korea vs. foreigner and start thinking in terms of Esports vs. everyone else if you wanna make this a real thing. And when you start thinking in those terms you cant just sit there and excuse one side of things and then say that it's acceptable on the other. You decide a firm ground or the Esports foundation is going to crumble from the ground up.
putting "western" all into one hat is not really a good thing either. when you talk about western, you pretty much mean the usa, because that is what you know, what you grew up with and what you "perceive" as logical and correct.
Asian cultures tend to be very high context cultures, whereas the USA can be found on the very other side of the continuum. How you express things or American companies express things is not necessarily the right move for a culture so very different from yours. I could very well imagine, that Jessica is afraid of SlayerS losing their face or being hurt in terms of their honour.
However, it is actually quite interesting in my opinion, how openly Jessica is discussing this. And I pereceive her actions as the wrong move too. Just trying to understand her reasons.
On March 07 2012 23:03 Odal wrote: When will people stop defending Dragon? He has stream cheated, exploited on ladder, lied about quitting as a pro gamer, and now this. Only becase he's korean and has an entertaining stream he gets special treatment?
* Edit: look the different balances between him and Combatex
Again, pure western mindset, you're really not taking the Korean cultural and their value into consideration.
That may be, but who has the more successful teams business wise right now? You cant say things like "oh thats western mindset" because it INCLUDES the western hemisphere. Everyone needs to stop thinking in terms of korea vs. foreigner and start thinking in terms of Esports vs. everyone else if you wanna make this a real thing. And when you start thinking in those terms you cant just sit there and excuse one side of things and then say that it's acceptable on the other. You decide a firm ground or the Esports foundation is going to crumble from the ground up.
I don't know about you, but I clearly see Korea has the bigger foundation for Esport, and has more successful teams; I mean, name one other area in the world that made as big of a esport scene as Korea did for BW;
My hope (because I like dragon) is that he left slayers because he wants to continue playing SC2 at a hobby streaming level, with the occasional foreign tourny. There's a BIG difference between the amount of work the mid tier foreigners and the top players on korean teams put in. My hope is he didn't want to get into that forced 8-12 hour a day of practice and instead play at his own pace, which Millenium would allow him to do, while still supporting him.
On March 07 2012 23:39 Bumblebee wrote: Has she ever considered that people can change their minds and might not have been lying? Gees...
jessica is overdramatic about everything. the irony is that she does it while talking about the importance of slayers' image. -
personally im not making any killing or saving dragon yet. i know people think he's funny. until he actually attends a tournament and shows himself to be anything other than a troll streamer ill wonder why mill. picked him up. and that's not to bash on him for being a troll streamer either; it entertains a lot of people and he's not actually harming the community by doing that. i dont really care.
On March 07 2012 23:39 Bumblebee wrote: Has she ever considered that people can change their minds and might not have been lying? Gees...
This was my first thought exactly. You can't really expect someone to never join a team again if they somehow changed their mind.
I don't know that much about korean culture, so this might be how they see things over there. But from my perspective, this makes Jessica come off as a mental person... And this is not the first time time shes done that imo.
Might add i've been a huge SlayerS fanboi ever since they started. But this, and some previous comments by Jessica, is just too much.
I dated a Korean girl once. Acting like this is really more about attention and trying to win sympathy. Maybe not all Korean girls are like this, but I can only dig from my own personal experience. The whole "how could you do this to me" attitude over something so little is really unbearable.
If I had to think about a Canadian or American acting like this it would be impossible. Think about the part where she says "I'm only concerned about [this guy] doing the same thing to a different team". The typical response is more like... "if you didn't want to be here you could have just say so, good luck on your journey (or f*ck you)"
Then there is the part where she is jumping to the conclusion that he lied. People change their minds all the time. Sometimes better opportunities prop up when you leave a team - opportunities that may not have been options or dreamt about while you are part of Slayers. Maybe he just didn't feel like it was a right fit and found that fit while he was returning to his old life.
I'm not a big fan of Dragon, but this type of attitude is really annoying. Thank god I don't have to deal with it anymore. (The Korean girl and I simply did not work out).
Either way... poor post in general. Why bother posting twitter drama about some girl who is upset about some guy leaving some team.
She is nothing but a drama queen always trying to stir shit up and trying to make herself look like some innocent victim. Her true character shines through when she says 'You get nothing out of raising people'. Sorry your little investment didn't pay off jessica. rofl. You shouldn't be doing shit like this to get something out of it. Thats just selfish. ;(. And as someone else stated earlier, Its entirely possible that someone changed their mind. She is so quick to make a public accusation its disgusting. She is the one making slayers look bad lol.
On March 07 2012 21:55 birdmanilikeflying wrote: Jessica's frustration is understandable from my point of view.
It seems to me from the limited information available that the player who left felt badly about leaving and may not have wanted to tell others, including Jessica, for fear of a negative reaction from them.
If this is the case, it means this player didn't consider the worse consequences which would come from not being honest with people.
This suggests to me that the player is just like me, and doesn't appreciate the work that others put in for their own sake. They don't consider the effort invested in them by those around them (the Slayers team members, in this case), and they only consider what happens to themselves - i.e. they may feel bad for a few days after seeing Jessica sad when they tell her they are leaving. This is in comparison to not feeling bad, at least in the short-term, by avoiding to tell Jessica that they were leaving the team because there was something they didn't like about it, or because there was something that they preferred about another team.
This is commonly called being selfish. It's associated with being brought up by parents who give too much. Which is quite common in SE Asia, I guess.
This is just my hypothesis...
The amount of cognitive dissonance in your post makes my brain hurt. Why is it that whenever these "asian values" things come up, it's ALWAYS the assumption that the person in power is utterly blameless, a selfless champion who gave their subordinates their everything? Why is the subordinate ALWAYS assumed to be deceitful and selfish?
Why isn't it possible that Jessica is making wild assumptions, and getting offended because she thinks her authority was undermined? Why isn't it possible that Dragon left Slayers to find new opportunities to support himself (as he wasn't receiving any income from Slayers), and then received an offer from Mill?
What is cognitive dissonance? I thought it was a description of a situation where there is a discrepancy between what a person is doing and what a person is thinking, creating a situation where their actions are confusing their thought and thus influencing them - usually adversely.
I'm not very sure about this though. I have only really encountered this term once in a book before.
In any case I am not sure what sort of cognitive dissonance you are talking about.
If I assume you are talking about it as I understand it, then perhaps you are assuming I always assume the person in power is utterly blameless? That I always assume the person with less power to be always deceitful and selfish? That I don't think it is possible that Jessica is making wild assumptions, and getting offended because she thinks her authority was undermined? That it isn't possible that Dragon left Slayers to find new opportunities to support himself?
I don't think like this. I agree with you that these are all possibilities...
...however from the information I gleaned, I had only made a hypothesis based on my life experience.
According to what I "know" of the situation, Jessica has written on Twitter that certain events took place. The translation, assuming it is correct, has allowed people who do not understand written Korean, and who do understand written English, to hear her point of view. She has said that he has lied to her/people about simply playing SC2 as a hobby etc.
MY interpretation of these events is now my hypothesis, based on my life experience. I am Asian, though I am not Korean. I was born in rural Australia and grew up in city Australia. I THINK (I do not know) that this situation has to do with Korean culture, but it also, in EQUAL PARTS, has to do with general personal/social etiquette.
The ideal of respect for elders exists in every culture, albeit probably in non-equal measure. Honesty is something viewed positively in general. Gratitude to ones who think they have done something for you (whether they have actually done anything or not) is an important part of general personal and social etiquette.
Now, I am thinking that even if Slayers did nothing for Dragon at all, he did not show tact in taking his leave from the team in such a way. It would seem to be in his best interests to pursue the path of action that would maintain a good relationship with Slayers, one of the most popular Korean teams, even after leaving.
About his choice of career path, I can see that it was prudent of him to join Mil. The SC2 scene in the "West" is certainly doing significantly better than inside Korea. Financially and for publicity, it is probably a wise move.
Is my hypothesising, yeint, really something to be so looked down upon?
As some of the posts here mentioned, there is a huge cultural barrier that most people do not understand so please don't underestimate the problem and blame jessica for her behaviours. As collectivist culture, koreans respect 'group work' or 'family' more so than individual situations. As such, I can understand the emotional stress that Jessica has gone through and it should not be blamed. Please, don't be ignorant guys.
On March 07 2012 18:07 fighter2_40 wrote: honestly, maybe at the time dragon didn't really know what he wanted. The news that he's going to mil is surprising to even his fans and people who follow him.
Either way, this is not the way to react to things....
It's pretty common knowledge dragon was not concentrating on his job after he left slayers, in fact I believe he sent out several tweets over the course of a month or two about how he wants a foreigner team. Clearly he went about it in a way that hurt some feelings but yeah, man, Jessica seems to get a wee bit too emotional publically for my tastes. But then again, I don't know e culture as well; most of us don't.
On March 07 2012 23:39 Bumblebee wrote: Has she ever considered that people can change their minds and might not have been lying? Gees...
Exactly. If she really cared about him as much as she's making it seem, she would be congratulating him right now.
Even if he did lie, I've never known a job where you need your bosses blessing to quit. Especially one that isn't paying you.
What kind of jobs have you had? The jobs I've worked, it's always been policy (not just common courtesy) to give two weeks' notice and why. The fact that he wasn't bound to SlayerS by money makes it even worse that he would lie about why he would leave. If he really did leave because he wanted to play less and then changed his mind, he could have been nice enough to explain things to his old team instead of letting them hear through public channels. I support SlayerS Jessica.
I'm sad we live in a society where when people show their emotions and feelings people flock to shit on them as drama queens. If Cold-hearted business-like approach is what you want to see, then maybe you shouldn't follow Korean exploits, and just stick to supporting American and European teams.
The worst part is people that come out to say all this is not okay because it hurts the Slayers Team as a business, because it's bad PR. Slayers is doing perfectly fine as a business, and is one of the most popular teams for a reason. That reason mostly being the closeness we feel with the players and staff.
Jessica can post whatever the crap she wants with twitter. If Jessica represent a negative image to SlayerS team, Golden and Violet won't contact her.
She is an actress, a pretty famous one and also being boxer's GF, do you really think she won't know anything about Public reputation and need to "Take some course in PR training?" Asia culture values relationship much more than western culture which emphasis on contact conditions.
It hurts me to see how many people here just judging Jessica because they don't understand there is a cultural difference. They aren't afraid to tell out their thoughts, Naniwa was criticized on twitter as well by Mr Chae as well.
Could have been avoided if Dragon just talked to Jessica or anyone from SlayerS about his plan. I can understand that Jessica is frustrated that Dragon goes on to join another team after he tells her that he is only going to play as a hobby, Dragon doesn't have a obligation too tell her or anyone from SlayerS of his plans after leaving but is definitely a courtesy that doesn't take a lot of time and is much more respectful for the people in SlayerS rather than hearing about it when Millenium releases their statement.
I just want to say that SlayerS werent allowing him to compete so leaving to play as a hobby isnt that bad. I think was a cheating scandal that wasnt really mentioned where he was watching a live stream and playing. Afterwards he told the team he wouldnt play in GSL etc.
But if SlayerS were going to allow him to play then that is wrong to blindside them like that, wait i guess its just generally wrong to blindside a person.
im sure that most of us can agree that Jessica is just a drama queen.... I do get where she's coming from, but tweets have a sense of overly dramatic tone.
On March 08 2012 01:21 ETisME wrote: Guys, show some respect please.
Jessica can post whatever the crap she wants with twitter. If Jessica represent a negative image to SlayerS team, Golden and Violet won't contact her.
She is an actress, a pretty famous one and also being boxer's GF, do you really think she won't know anything about Public reputation and need to "Take some course in PR training?" Asia culture values relationship much more than western culture which emphasis on contact conditions.
It hurts me to see how many people here just judging Jessica because they don't understand there is a cultural difference. They aren't afraid to tell out their thoughts, Naniwa was criticized on twitter as well by Mr Chae as well.
I don't see why you bring up her being famous as though it really means anything in regards to her ability to handle the PR of a Starcraft team, particularly when she has a track record of behaving childishly on her twitter and lashing out at people constantly.
Citing cultural differences doesn't really work for me either I'm afraid, there are plenty of coaches in the Korean scene who have gone basically drama free for as long as I can remember. Despite players leaving and joining, they've managed to remain professional, Jessica calls her players out when they leave, and acts the victim if she gets accused of taking players.
It's getting old and it's part of the reason why I've lost interest in SlayerS.
On March 08 2012 01:21 ETisME wrote: Guys, show some respect please.
Jessica can post whatever the crap she wants with twitter. If Jessica represent a negative image to SlayerS team, Golden and Violet won't contact her.
She is an actress, a pretty famous one and also being boxer's GF, do you really think she won't know anything about Public reputation and need to "Take some course in PR training?" Asia culture values relationship much more than western culture which emphasis on contact conditions.
It hurts me to see how many people here just judging Jessica because they don't understand there is a cultural difference. They aren't afraid to tell out their thoughts, Naniwa was criticized on twitter as well by Mr Chae as well.
It is Jessica who should think about the cultural difference when she is tweeting in English. Which started all this fiasco and made people translate her posts.
On March 07 2012 17:01 Corrosive wrote: As far as i know dragon had a change of heart when he realized that he actually would like to play sc2 professionally after leaving slayers. so he searched for a team. I don't really even know how much dragon was involved with slayers. He seemed like an independant entity to me. He participated in ONE team league for slayers? and he never stayed in the house right? seems like a gigantic overreaction. o_o
based on these two tweets I really doubt he just changed his mind... just look at the dates. dragon can do what he wants, but there is probably truth to what jessica is saying.
After Dragon was accused of maphacking, streamcheating and match fixing on PlayXP-forums[10], he then replied that "he was sorry for what he had done" but didn't go into detail which parts of the allegations were true. Furthermore he stated that he would “never dream of other tournaments, televised matches, or pursue a career as a pro-gamer.”
After getting eliminated by NesTea in the first round (of Open season 3), he wrote an apology for breaking his earlier promise.
This isn't even the first time Dragon has "changed his mind." I hope he does well as long it's on the level. I doubt Dragon has any malicious intent, but in Jessica's words, he's a "kid," and if he's maturing, it's been awfully slow.
Also consider the fact that SlayerS was the team to give him a second chance in Korea.
I think Dragon did it to get in a as Millenium. I think Jessica is right its not nice of him but i think this rage is even more un nicer but like somedays after he left Slayers i saw in his status : looking for team. But Dragon is like that and thats why i love him xD
[Yeah, European culture used to be all about honor and tradition and respecting authority too. And that culminated in millions upon millions of people marched into trenches to die for "honor and loyalty" in the name of King and country.
Just because something is cultural doesn't make it right and immune to criticism.
European culture has at no point in history been even close to being similar to eastern cultures.
On March 08 2012 01:12 StimFesT wrote: I dont think dragon lied because he wanted to get off the SlayerS team. People change their minds all the time
Why wouldn't he tell Slayers first?
Equally why would he? Its not like he's on the team anymore and hasnt been for a while.
When Dragon left he didn't tell SlayerS directly, and only posted on Twitter that he had left. Dragon also said it was because he wanted to take SC2 only as a hobby and not as a professional. The "lie" being talked about is Dragon's reason for leaving SlayerS. He was contracted to the team, I believe, so to terminate that contract there had to be a legitimate reason (moving to another team is not, but can be considered if the teams agree), so Dragon supposedly lied to get out of that contract. Soon after he was proven to be looking for a new team. If his intention was to move to another team, he should have told SlayerS first so that they could have arranged a more amicable transfer. Instead Dragon got out of his contract with a "made up excuse" (according to most informed sources).
So yes, he was wrong for what he did and should have told SlayerS the real reason.
It is unfortunate though, because we are dealing with children (teenagers) who've yet to go to university or work full time (I assume for most) so many do not understand the value and significance of contracts and professionalism.
I mean come on, maybe he could not find a job and he is REALLY good at sc2. A team offered him a spot, with Money, he took it. I know the Slayers team is a family and they care about each other A LOT, but sometimes life happens and things happen differently then what people initially said at the time! Too much drama imo also...
And for quite a while there boxer was doing a good job keeping jessica away from the computer/twitter. I really like slayers, but jessicas constant aggressive tweeting really makes me not like her, and by proximity like slayers less.
I think Dragon really did leave Slayers to start working and he did for awhile. I think the support he got from his viewers when he started streaming again around November of last year renewed his passion and confidence and made him want to pursue a competitive career again. It's pretty simple really. I don't think Dragon had joining a foreign team in mind or when he left Slayers.
On March 08 2012 02:23 Clayton77 wrote: I think Dragon really did leave Slayers to start working and he did for awhile. I think the support he got from his viewers when he started streaming again around November of last year renewed his passion and confidence and made him want to pursue a competitive career again. It's pretty simple really. I don't think Dragon had joining a foreign team in mind or when he left Slayers.
If you look a few posts above you, there is a post that shows that Dragon was looking for a team 1 month after leaving SlayerS
On March 08 2012 02:23 Clayton77 wrote: I think Dragon really did leave Slayers to start working and he did for awhile. I think the support he got from his viewers when he started streaming again around November of last year renewed his passion and confidence and made him want to pursue a competitive career again. It's pretty simple really. I don't think Dragon had joining a foreign team in mind or when he left Slayers.
Then you haven't been paying attention. Dragon tweeted about his search for a foreign team almost right after leaving SlayerS, tweeted how hard it was to find a foreign team and even said so on his stream. Whatever you think of the tweets, Dragon definitely lied to Jessica about his reasons for leaving.
I didn't understood the traduction. I don't understand this thread. Looks like it's about Jessica ranting on Dragon. Jessica is really awful at PR and she should stop using twitter.
maintaining a team is a business and she appearantly is treating the teammates as a part of her family. leaving a team because of retirement and leaving due to a team switch is very different too. the latter one usually has know how issues (practice methods etc) too. it is however not very smart to do this publically like she is doing.
On March 07 2012 17:43 Nekovivie wrote: I think her being all public like this actually enhances Slayers reputation. It shows she has a deep passion about her team, and it gives the impression of it being more of a family than a team.
This was my impression aswell. I dont get why people are upset or w/e with Jessica at all. Its just tweets its not like some interview or something official. Settle down dudes. lmao@PR=Twitter
Really, I feel for Jessica, and for SlayerS, but I have to take Dragon's side.
The dude wasn't going anywhere on SlayerS. They wouldn't support him, iirc from what I read, and he couldn't really compete in local Korean tournaments, because he wasn't there. He made a huge life decision to leave what is, in my opinion, one of the best teams globally, because he felt that he would be better off playing the game as a hobby, and then after over a year (factchecker?) off of SlayerS, he started to look for a team that would take him. Enter the Millenium Dragon.
Did Dragon truly believe a year ago that he would get snatched up by a foreign team?
EDIT: I'm dumb and need to read the thread better. Dragon did post about how he was looking for a foreign team. Sorry TL, I'll leave this post up for legacy reasons. >.<
I swear this community likes stupid drama more than high school girls. All the drama threads always have hundreds of useless posts (yes, I get this is one too).
OT: She comes off as sort of... unstable. They need to put a lid on her.
i think we can all agree that mio werra aka slayers dragon is a shady ass man.
he was known for cheating before he joined slayers and the whole team moving business is shady too.
if dragon would have transferred to millenium, dragon would have had to pay slayers a transfer fee probably (which millenium would pay for him). by quitting due to retirement he got away from this and after a quiet period now he just joined millenium without a need for millenium to compensate slayers for the knowhow loss
On March 08 2012 02:46 HardlyNever wrote: I swear this community likes stupid drama more than high school girls. All the drama threads always have hundreds of useless posts (yes, I get this is one too).
OT: She comes off as sort of... unstable. They need to put a lid on her.
On March 08 2012 02:30 Kimaker wrote: Culture difference may contribute to the "acceptability" being questionable.
Is this viewed as okay to do in Korea? (Jessica tweeting everything publicly that is.)
Honestly, when she's also tweeting in English to a foreign audience, she should take into consideration the way other cultures will view her behavior, if she doesn't care, then there should be no complaints about the backlash from it.
Well if you look at it this way, This keeps slayerS in the spotlight..for whatever reason. I am trying to see how the korean culture reacts to tweets like this.
She needs to shut up unless she knows everything about it. Didn't Dragon say he wanted to go back to normal work first but then decided AFTER to try joining a foreign team which is something completely different.
it's awful that she is doing all of this publicly, and she's lucky she's related to something as small as a random esports team that doesn't deserve media recognition that would tear her apart. imagine if a big-time baseball coach was being such a baby about a similar issue...it would be on the front page of every sports section across the country. grow up plz, nobody cares that you have psychological problems.
On March 08 2012 03:57 Olsson wrote: She needs to shut up unless she knows everything about it. Didn't Dragon say he wanted to go back to normal work first but then decided AFTER to try joining a foreign team which is something completely different.
Yeah, that is what he said and if you followed his twitter like I do then you know it was not true, hence the part about Dragon lying. He took the easy way out by lying to get out of SlayerS instead of being honest about it, and Jessica (who did a lot for dragon after his cheating scandal) feels like he is ungrateful.
Dragon always changes his mind, it's not something new. How many times has he said he won't play in any more tournaments and then he pops right back up? It's like playing whac a mole with dragon.
I can't read this thread anymore, its just a bunch of foreign idiots walking into the thread with no background in the situation calling Jessica a psychotic drama queen.
Jessica is a drama queen, lets not forget the time she lash out of netizens. As for dragon tweeting that he wants to be on foreign team, you would think Jessica would've gotten the hint since she loves tweeting so much. How in the world that zefreak caught all of dragon tweet while Jessica was oblivious to it all. Why didn't she lash out then when he post his desire to be on a foreign team? Why did she wait for him to join a team than call him an embarrassment to Slayers? I'll tell you why, DRAMA QUEEN!
On March 08 2012 02:46 HardlyNever wrote: I swear this community likes stupid drama more than high school girls. All the drama threads always have hundreds of useless posts (yes, I get this is one too).
OT: She comes off as sort of... unstable. They need to put a lid on her.
Really... she just cares alot as in the team is her family. I actually side with her on this. Though she probably shouldn't have gone on twitter about it but yea.
This really hurts Slayers' image to me. Seriously, calm the fuck down. Why does it seem like every time I hear about Jessica, its her totally flipping shit?
I think it was the right thing for Jessica to speak with Dragon about this, however I would had done it privately and not in public, I don't understand why she needed to tweet him about this. This is something that should be between SlayerS, Jessica and Dragon.
She is trying to play the victim card saying "OMG I was lie to and I am hurt" but if its as simple as that than its fine. But when she says how terrible he is for it and worried that he would do that on another team that will tarnish the Slayers name and call him an embarrassment to slayers... well now she sounds like a whiny little ....girl.
wow, jessica seems whiny and overemotional and victimizing herself all the time.. Not to mention constantly talking shit whenever something doesn't go her/Slayers way. Not sure if Dragon left the team and really did mean to play sc2 as a hobby, but then after about a year Mill contacted him with an offer that made him reconsider. People have the right to change their mind about things, it doesn't make them a liar.
Meanwhile, more and more shit talking and whining, i could never imagine being in a relationship with her. Boxer deserves a way cooler gf than this.
edit: I realize there is a history of Dragon tweeting/streaming about seeking foreign teams.. but should you really be airing your dirty laundry in public all the time, on twitter?
I didn't realize her tweets so whiny. I'm not even sure if this is a publicity stunt. Jessica comes off as a lunatic. One day she'll realize that she doesn't control other people's lives. This whole disastrous ordeal should be kept between Dragon and Jessica, in private.
Don't be proud of your Slayers roots... The fact that we had a liar like you on the team is embarrassing.
Who even says these things? She's so full of herself. Boxer's rep getting to her head.
I am scared that he'll pull the same thing on the new team and give Slayers a bad rep
I don't even know how Dragon will give Slayers bad rep while he runs around with an M tag.
Dragon fans are dumb. Read the tweets, she is mad cause he left under false pretenses. He joins a new team, she is upset and rightly so. How hard can this be to understand? Honestly. Dragon is an idiot.
Hell, I would leave Slayers if someone as annoying as Jessica was there. I cannot even believe how much stupid stuff she tweets/posts.
If I remember correctly, Dragon left the team to focus on work. Then after a while he changed his mind (after leaving the team). Then he joins a new team. I don't get how this is really bad. I imagine he is getting paid more anyway.
Someone should just revoke Jessica's tweeting privileges so she doesn't embarrass herself further.
On the one hand, I can see why Jessica is upset. Any employer would be upset if they had an employee quit without giving them a two weeks notice. However as many have said before the way she went about it could have been better. She probably should have privately talked with Dragon about why he did what he did. However Dragon is also free to do what he wants, especially considering he apparently was never really in the Team House and the fact that Slayers have a lot of great players would make it especially difficult to make it into the main competing roster. I can see why Dragon would want to go to a foreign team besides more money he can possibly play more in tournaments reprensenting his team and he would have a chance to be on a roster instead of some "reserve" player.
In my opinion the moment the Korean-Western culture difference ended was when Jessica decided to tweet in English which I see as meant for the foreign audience hence why foreigners aren't as upset since it doesn't effect us as much as it would to the Korean Scene. If anything I think Slayers should get someone fluent in English and Korean so that if and when Jessica or Slayers would like to tweet in English for their foreign fans, then there would be no possibility of mistranslation.
I am half Korean (Mother's side) and being born in the US gives me a view on all sides of this. I see where she is coming from and it is true that the Korean community has great respect for older people, though Dragon needs a break from all this drama.
Everyone knows about Dragon's "stream cheating" and controversy", but seriously it needs to be dropped. It happened already and there is nothing Dragon nor anyone else could do about it except accept the fact and move on. There is really no point on dwelling on past mistakes because from what I have seen Dragon has done nothing more to prove that while he did make mistakes (We all do) at least he learned and changed his ways instead of being like "Well fuck them" and keep doing things like Stream Cheating. How many players like Dragon can play in games especially Playhem's tournies with the amount of lag that Dragon deals with and still come out often as the winner?
To anyone thinking "Oh since it is something like Twitter and Facebook, I can say whatever I want be about my employers, co-workers,etc.." However realize that a lot of companies now are monitoring social networking of their employee's in order to see what they are up to.
On March 08 2012 04:25 Chessz wrote: wow, jessica seems whiny and overemotional and victimizing herself all the time.. Not to mention constantly talking shit whenever something doesn't go her/Slayers way. Not sure if Dragon left the team and really did mean to play sc2 as a hobby, but then after about a year Mill contacted him with an offer that made him reconsider. People have the right to change their mind about things, it doesn't make them a liar.
Meanwhile, more and more shit talking and whining, i could never imagine being in a relationship with her. Boxer deserves a way cooler gf than this.
edit: I realize there is a history of Dragon tweeting/streaming about seeking foreign teams.. but should you really be airing your dirty laundry in public all the time, on twitter?
it wasnt a year, it was 2 months. i do think jessica is over reacting, but dragon seems to have no integrity at all, its not the first time hes 'changed his mind' after saying something
On March 08 2012 04:25 Chessz wrote: wow, jessica seems whiny and overemotional and victimizing herself all the time.. Not to mention constantly talking shit whenever something doesn't go her/Slayers way. Not sure if Dragon left the team and really did mean to play sc2 as a hobby, but then after about a year Mill contacted him with an offer that made him reconsider. People have the right to change their mind about things, it doesn't make them a liar.
Try two weeks. Not a year. Two weeks.
On 16 January 2012, SlayerS issued a statement on Facebook reading in part:
We are sad to announce that Dragon and Golden decided to leave our team. ... Dragon, however, decided to put gaming aside, at least from a professional perspective, in order to fully focus on work.
We wish both players the best of luck, and we would like our appreciation towards both for being a part of our teama in 2011.
On 29 January, Dragon tweeted that he was looking for a new team. And now, in early March, he's been signed by Millenium.
So your chronology, which is retirement, long break, contacted and brought out of retirement by a team, is counterfactual in seemingly every regard.
On March 08 2012 04:37 Trealador wrote: Dragon fans are dumb. Read the tweets, she is mad cause he left under false pretenses. He joins a new team, she is upset and rightly so. How hard can this be to understand? Honestly. Dragon is an idiot.
It's not hard to understand at all. Dragon wanted to leave the team, so he did. He joined a new team. His old boss goes crazy and makes herself look like a child in numerous tweets. She calls him names and insults him. She is anh idiot.
On March 08 2012 04:39 Rybaia wrote: What an amazing Drama Queen she is, alf of the stuff she wrote is hilarious better then a comedy show.
On March 08 2012 04:39 Blargh wrote: Hell, I would leave Slayers if someone as annoying as Jessica was there. I cannot even believe how much stupid stuff she tweets/posts.
If I remember correctly, Dragon left the team to focus on work. Then after a while he changed his mind (after leaving the team). Then he joins a new team. I don't get how this is really bad. I imagine he is getting paid more anyway.
Someone should just revoke Jessica's tweeting privileges so she doesn't embarrass herself further.
Read dragons tweets, Tweet1"leaves slayers" Tweet2"Still looking for a team 1~2 months later"...... doesn't seem like he "focused on work" much. Jessica is the mother of slayers, she treats every member like a child of her own. If you lied to your own mother wouldn't she be mad as hell?
On March 08 2012 04:39 Blargh wrote: Hell, I would leave Slayers if someone as annoying as Jessica was there. I cannot even believe how much stupid stuff she tweets/posts.
If I remember correctly, Dragon left the team to focus on work. Then after a while he changed his mind (after leaving the team). Then he joins a new team. I don't get how this is really bad. I imagine he is getting paid more anyway.
Someone should just revoke Jessica's tweeting privileges so she doesn't embarrass herself further.
Read dragons tweets, Tweet1"leaves slayers" Tweet2"Still looking for a team 1~2 months later"...... doesn't seem like he "focused on work" much. Jessica is the mother of slayers, she treats every member like a child of her own. If you lied to your own mother wouldn't she be mad as hell?
She would but she would not use twitter to scold me for it. ~~
On March 08 2012 04:39 Blargh wrote: Hell, I would leave Slayers if someone as annoying as Jessica was there. I cannot even believe how much stupid stuff she tweets/posts.
If I remember correctly, Dragon left the team to focus on work. Then after a while he changed his mind (after leaving the team). Then he joins a new team. I don't get how this is really bad. I imagine he is getting paid more anyway.
Someone should just revoke Jessica's tweeting privileges so she doesn't embarrass herself further.
Read dragons tweets, Tweet1"leaves slayers" Tweet2"Still looking for a team 1~2 months later"...... doesn't seem like he "focused on work" much. Jessica is the mother of slayers, she treats every member like a child of her own. If you lied to your own mother wouldn't she be mad as hell?
It sounds like her problem. If she can't seperate business from treating people as family, then that is her problem. I don't understand why she even cares so much. Dragon didn't live in the house, never competed for Slayers and didn't even seem to be an asset to them.
BTW, if my mom found out I lied, she wouldn't call me names and try to degrade me in front of thousands of people on a social media website, like Twitter, in 2 different languages to make sure as many people saw it as possible. She is petty.
On March 08 2012 04:39 Blargh wrote: Hell, I would leave Slayers if someone as annoying as Jessica was there. I cannot even believe how much stupid stuff she tweets/posts.
If I remember correctly, Dragon left the team to focus on work. Then after a while he changed his mind (after leaving the team). Then he joins a new team. I don't get how this is really bad. I imagine he is getting paid more anyway.
Someone should just revoke Jessica's tweeting privileges so she doesn't embarrass herself further.
Read dragons tweets, Tweet1"leaves slayers" Tweet2"Still looking for a team 1~2 months later"...... doesn't seem like he "focused on work" much. Jessica is the mother of slayers, she treats every member like a child of her own. If you lied to your own mother wouldn't she be mad as hell?
It's important to note that the second of those tweets, where he says he's been waiting for 1-2 months, is kinda chronologically strange. That tweet was on 16 February, which puts it exactly one month out from the retirement announcement, and a bit more than two weeks after his first public acknowledgement that he was looking for a team. So either he's got his dates mixed up, or he was actively looking for a team before leaving Slayers.
Goddamnit Jessica... Maybe she shoudnt be allowed near things that allow her to talk to other people besides SlayerS... This is getting ridiculous and I dont know how she is ever going to learn her lesson.
A player getting paid no salary and most likely not under a contract that holds any weight leaves a team thinking he wont play anymore. He then receives an offer that sounds good to him and accepts. Former team that was giving him a shit offer is mad that he got and accepted a better offer...
Jessica always comes across as being completely crazy. Every time there is a thread that mentions Jessica it's about her crying and whining, it's getting old.
Jessica needs to relax. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong, but there are more professional ways to phrase things. By acting out in the manner she did, she draws attention to not only herself but the entire Slayers team. She should make sure her actions reflect well on the team. It seems like she is prioritizing her emotions over the well being of the team. If this is actually true then it is a sad day for Slayers fans because there is absolutely no doubt in my mind, that the foreign fans posting in this thread seem to be confirming in their heads that a leader figure in the Slayers group is being completely irrational and immature.
It's funny how everyone bashes on Jessica for the situation and how she's reacting. Do you even know Jessica's job? what she does with the team, how she raises the team, etc etc. I'm sure she's put in a lot of effort to keep the team together and progressing as it should yet everyone bashes on her as if she's simply "the owner" of team SlayerS. No one outside of SlayerS or Korea even know the relationship/bond she has with her teammates, and perhaps how her teammates return that relationship to her. So don't act like she's just your ordinary boss or your ordinary teacher because in Korean culture, lots of strong relationships happen whether it looks unprofessional in the U.S. or in EU or whatever other country. As residents of the U.S. or where ever you are, you're not going to fully understand the situation given the circumstances (culture, ethics, morality, business). So stop judging. Lying is a big deal in Korea, they put a lot of emphasis in integrity honor, etc, and as a citizen of USA I'd easily admit that this type of shit doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes to money.
I dont understand why it's any of her business what he does outside of Slayers. When you leave a job, you don't need to give your employer a reason. I guess in teams, there is a more family-like atmosphere sometimes, but this is over the top. I generally do not like people who would rather publicly expose a person that they have issues with rather than deal with it in private. Especially when you have a close relationship with that person. Instead of resolving the problem and dealing with with loose feelings, she would rather attempt to deface him publicly.
People keep saying that Slayers and other SC2 teams are family. You're wrong, they're not family. They're teams. While the bond that a team can create is strong and special, unlike any other, your manager is not your parent. They are your manager and they should act that way. Jessica is not his mom and is not the mother of all the Slayers members. People need to get this idea out of their heads and she should definitely not be approaching her position this way. It creates an unhealthy environment to have someone being that intrusive when you've only known them for a short amount of time.
edit: yea i know Dragon told them that he wanted to play as a hobby, but instead decided to look for a team. I get more fed up with behavior like Jessica's than his though.
On March 08 2012 05:11 LittleAtari wrote: I dont understand why it's any of her business what he does outside of Slayers. When you leave a job, you don't need to give your employer a reason. I guess in teams, there is a more family-like atmosphere sometimes, but this is over the top. I generally do not like people who would rather publicly expose a person that they have issues with rather than deal with it in private. Especially when you have a close relationship with that person. Instead of resolving the problem and dealing with with loose feelings, she would rather attempt to deface him publicly.
People keep saying that Slayers and other SC2 teams are family. You're wrong, they're not family. They're teams. While the bond that a team can create is strong and special, unlike any other, your manager is not your parent. They are your manager and they should act that way. Jessica is not his mom and is not the mother of all the Slayers members. People need to get that out of their heads and she should definitely not be approaching her position that way. It creates an unhealthy environment to have someone being that intrusive when you've only known them for a short amount of time.
I wonder what would happen is something actually serious happened, like a player caught to actual match fixing (not the much lesser and trivial coca thing) or an ace like MMA was poached behind their back. If she is this pissed and upset about Dragon joining a foreign team...
It's the internet. It's twitter. I don't see why Jessica can't express her frustration. I don't see why dragon can't make retaliations of his own. People should make up their own minds and have their own opinions. Seems healthy to me.
No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
On March 08 2012 04:37 Trealador wrote: Dragon fans are dumb. Read the tweets, she is mad cause he left under false pretenses. He joins a new team, she is upset and rightly so. How hard can this be to understand? Honestly. Dragon is an idiot.
you sir, do not read. First of all, when you start your post with "Dragon fans are dumb," you lose 100% of your credibility and might as well just erase your message. Second of all, most of the posts are not saying its bad that she is angry with dragon. In fact, most people agree she has the right to be upset. What people think is immature is her overreaction, the publicity of her reaction, and how she is making the entire issue about herself when she really barely factors into it at all. You just posted that to incite a flame war. We can only hope that trolling will go out of style some day :/
ffs. the guy had a change of mind. what's their deal -___-. He played it as a hobby for a while, had a job, didn't like it. He went back to pro starcraft and looked for a foreign team. It's been known for months that he's been looking. Why only respond now anyway.
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
If it's Korean culture don't suddenly tweet it in English too and expect foreigners to sympathise with what we perceive to be grossly overexaggerated.
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
I guess watching Starcraft makes you an expert in Korean culture?
edit: lives in Korea, my bad, stupid of me. Ty to the poster below me for pointing that out.
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
I guess watching Starcraft makes you an expert in Korean culture?
Even if she is right Jessica is quite old, while Dragon is young, i believe. The last thing older, "parenting", people should do is call out their "raised children" in public. You gotta expect young people to make stupid descisions. This hurts my respect for Jessica more than my respect for Dragon. Also, I don´t think Dragon made this descision for no reason.
Dragon is just a kiddy and what he's done is unacceptable. The Westerners, please stop blaming on Jessica since you guys wouldn't never understand the Asian culture. Korean scene is still fine with Jessica's reactions, you know why ?
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
If it's Korean culture don't suddenly tweet it in English too and expect foreigners to sympathise with what we perceive to be grossly overexaggerated.
Wasn't it tweeted in korean and we were the ones that went and translated it?
I don't know what to make of this, but I do know that dragon fucking loves sc2 and hes really good at it. You can see the smile on his face whenever he plays, and thats part of why he gets so many viewers when hes fucking around or playing seriously. I'm glad he's playing, and its not my place to say whether its right or wrong of him to do so.
Do you think she even undertands the power of the english words she's saying? Fuck no. They memorize basic meanings, the same way I can memorize basic meanings of Korean words. Do I understand the power of the words in full? No. And so things can be taken out of context, misunderstood, and their power misintrepreted, she probably has no idea the magnitude of the things she has said. People need to remember she's not an English speaker, and like that, she's just speaking memorized phrases... Look at her english, it's pretty obvious she doesn't have a command over it...
On March 08 2012 05:32 lastshadow wrote: Do you think she even undertands the power of the english words she's saying? Fuck no. They memorize basic meanings, the same way I can memorize basic meanings of Korean words. Do I understand the power of the words in full? No. And so things can be taken out of context, misunderstood, and their power misintrepreted, she probably has no idea the magnitude of the things she has said. People need to remember she's not an English speaker, and like that, she's just speaking memorized phrases... Look at her english, it's pretty obvious she doesn't have a command over it...
Then once again, that's her mistake. Alright, maybe what she's saying is slightly less dramatic and crazy but it still comes off that way in her tweets.
She just always seems to play the victim in every single situation. This isn't something that every other Korean team and their manager/coach does or deals with on a regular or semi-regular basis, but for some reason every couple of months Jessica is involved in some kind of drama.
If she tweets in English, she should expect the foreign community to respond to what she tweets, at that point she needs to consider how foreign cultures will view her actions, which appear to be absolutely ridiculous to me.
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
Oh please the moment Jessica tweeted in English is the moment the Korean-Western Culture barrier ceased to exist. Because that tweet now is gone to a foreign audience. Get off your high horse. [/QUOTE] Lastshadow lives in korea. [/QUOTE] So what? Because he lives in Korea that means everything he says is right and we should accept it? Is he even Korean in the first place or just another foreigner living there? I am pretty sure growing up with Korean culture from birth > Living in Korea as an expat for years.
Seeing as my mother is Korean and the fact that I grew up with Korean/American culture, I can see both sides of the spectrum and the fact that lastshadow thinks anyone who disagrees with Jessica obviously doesn't know Korean culture is condenscending. The amount of Drama Jessica seems to rival that of a Korean drama on TV.
On March 08 2012 05:32 lastshadow wrote: Do you think she even undertands the power of the english words she's saying? Fuck no. They memorize basic meanings, the same way I can memorize basic meanings of Korean words. Do I understand the power of the words in full? No. And so things can be taken out of context, misunderstood, and their power misintrepreted, she probably has no idea the magnitude of the things she has said. People need to remember she's not an English speaker, and like that, she's just speaking memorized phrases... Look at her english, it's pretty obvious she doesn't have a command over it...
Then maybe should shouldn't have tried to tweet anything in English in the first place. It is not our fault she doesn't speak English. Maybe she should hire a native English speaker for Slayers Twitter,etc...so that if she wants to tweet in English then she has help and she will not have to worry about any backlash due to misunderstandings. Misunderstandings or not what is said has been said and now the consquences have come.
On March 08 2012 04:25 Chessz wrote: wow, jessica seems whiny and overemotional and victimizing herself all the time.. Not to mention constantly talking shit whenever something doesn't go her/Slayers way. Not sure if Dragon left the team and really did mean to play sc2 as a hobby, but then after about a year Mill contacted him with an offer that made him reconsider. People have the right to change their mind about things, it doesn't make them a liar.
Meanwhile, more and more shit talking and whining, i could never imagine being in a relationship with her. Boxer deserves a way cooler gf than this.
edit: I realize there is a history of Dragon tweeting/streaming about seeking foreign teams.. but should you really be airing your dirty laundry in public all the time, on twitter?
it wasnt a year, it was 2 months. i do think jessica is over reacting, but dragon seems to have no integrity at all, its not the first time hes 'changed his mind' after saying something
Slayers could have kept him under contract until his contract expired if he even had one. Just because your retiring or your changing your mind..etc etc...doesn't mean the team has to have poor planning in how they want to address this. You really think they didn't sit around and say "I wonder if dragon is looking for another team... "
Either slayers is the dumbest management in the world or the best...I think its the latter, trying to play the 1st just is tiresome and dramaful.
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
Oh please the moment Jessica tweeted in English is the moment the Korean-Western Culture barrier ceased to exist. Because that tweet now is gone to a foreign audience. Get off your high horse.
Lastshadow lives in korea.
So what? Because he lives in Korea that means everything he says is right and we should accept it? Is he even Korean in the first place or just another foreigner living there? I am pretty sure growing up with Korean culture from birth > Living in Korea as an expat for years.
Seeing as my mother is Korean and the fact that I grew up with Korean/American culture, I can see both sides of the spectrum and the fact that lastshadow thinks anyone who disagrees with Jessica obviously doesn't know Korean culture is condenscending. The amount of Drama Jessica seems to get rivals that of a Korean drama on TV.
On March 08 2012 05:32 lastshadow wrote: Do you think she even undertands the power of the english words she's saying? Fuck no. They memorize basic meanings, the same way I can memorize basic meanings of Korean words. Do I understand the power of the words in full? No. And so things can be taken out of context, misunderstood, and their power misintrepreted, she probably has no idea the magnitude of the things she has said. People need to remember she's not an English speaker, and like that, she's just speaking memorized phrases... Look at her english, it's pretty obvious she doesn't have a command over it...
Then maybe should shouldn't have tried to tweet anything in English in the first place. It is not our fault she doesn't speak English. Maybe she should hire a native English speaker for Slayers Twitter,etc...so that if she wants to tweet in English then she has help and she will not have to worry about any backlash due to misunderstandings. Misunderstandings or not what is said has been said and now the consquences have come.
On March 08 2012 05:16 ddrddrddrddr wrote: It's the internet. It's twitter. I don't see why Jessica can't express her frustration. I don't see why dragon can't make retaliations of his own. People should make up their own minds and have their own opinions. Seems healthy to me.
Jessica seems to have no problem lighting people up on twitter with all kinds of accusations and insults. But, she has no problem going to the police when other do the exact same thing about her or her team. She is the definition of a hypocrite.
so, this is, what "blown out of proportion" means ? interesting ..
someone is venting over something on twitter, people make a 15 page thread on teamliquid about it ...
all she said is that she's pissed about someone telling her he doesn't want to play the game professionally anymore and then joined another team ... i'd be pissed too if something like that happened to me. I dunno if i would use twitter to vent about such a situation, but hey, everyone reacts differently.
She no doubt feels betrayed. They put in a lot of time, money, and energy into developing their team. They take care of them and evidentally treat them like their own children. Then those kids grow up and get a job. Except in this place he didn't. He joined a different "family" instead. I get it.
Sort of like how Bret Favre played for his entire career for the Packers. Then he retired and was a celebrated hero when he did. The people were ok with him retiring. Then he came back. But not with the Packers. He played for their rivals the Vikings. Every Green Bay fan on the planet hated him for it. I'm a Lions fan myself so it didn't really matter but a friend of mine at work who was a huge Green Bay fan wouldn't even say his name she hated him so bad. Seems like a similar story here.
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
You mean changing his mind about not working and playing as a pro again ? Or leaving the team without talking to her beforehand... I can understand the latter, it still doesn't deserve the term "liar" in both cases. People have the right to change their mind. Now, if he planned it all along, it's another problem...
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
You mean changing his mind about not working and playing as a pro again ? Or leaving the team without talking to her beforehand... I can understand the latter, it still doesn't deserve the term "liar" in both cases. People have the right to change their mind. Now, if he planned it all along, it's another problem...
Read the thread. He was looking for a team right after leaving, and from some of his tweets probably before he even left.
Not gonna lie, she does come off as a control freak. Yeah dragon may have lied about leaving the team, but no need to air this all out to public it just makes you look silly.
On March 08 2012 06:01 Magic_Mike wrote: She no doubt feels betrayed. They put in a lot of time, money, and energy into developing their team. They take care of them and evidentally treat them like their own children. Then those kids grow up and get a job. Except in this place he didn't. He joined a different "family" instead. I get it.
Sort of like how Bret Favre played for his entire career for the Packers. Then he retired and was a celebrated hero when he did. The people were ok with him retiring. Then he came back. But not with the Packers. He played for their rivals the Vikings. Every Green Bay fan on the planet hated him for it. I'm a Lions fan myself so it didn't really matter but a friend of mine at work who was a huge Green Bay fan wouldn't even say his name she hated him so bad. Seems like a similar story here.
one packer fan hates him... im from madison and all of my fellow packer fans and i still totally respect brett favre for a decade and a half of amazing play. ... lions fans -____-
So what? Because he lives in Korea that means everything he says is right and we should accept it? Is he even Korean in the first place or just another foreigner living there? I am pretty sure growing up with Korean culture from birth > Living in Korea as an expat for years.
Seeing as my mother is Korean and the fact that I grew up with Korean/American culture, I can see both sides of the spectrum and the fact that lastshadow thinks anyone who disagrees with Jessica obviously doesn't know Korean culture is condenscending. The amount of Drama Jessica seems to rival that of a Korean drama on TV.
I am Korean and I approve that statement. We do have stronger belief in family as we are collectivist people. Although Jessica's response may seems absurd, it is totally understandable and even netizens from Korean forum critisized dragon for such behaviour.
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
You mean changing his mind about not working and playing as a pro again ? Or leaving the team without talking to her beforehand... I can understand the latter, it still doesn't deserve the term "liar" in both cases. People have the right to change their mind. Now, if he planned it all along, it's another problem...
He left Slayers while claiming to intend on focusing on his job and only playing Starcraft as a hobby, then tweeted a few days after leaving that he was searching for a team and now joined Millenium. So, he claimed to leave the team to pursue other interests and then continues on focusing on Starcraft. This contrasts, eg. with Golden's and Sleep's behaviour, who were straightforward to Slayers about their intent to search for a new team, and had their "blessing" to do so (whereas Dragon seems to have acted less with less honesty).
Dragon's case is particularly sensitive because he has a history of stream cheating (among other allegations), and as Slayers gave him a "home" after being publicly shamed (with Dragon going so far as to state to "never dream of other tournaments, televised matches, or pursue a career as a pro-gamer") they no doubt expected him to appreciate their gesture and pay in kind, as in acting properly (to Korean standards).
One should also remember that very recently Slayers had their official twitter and facebook accounts hijacked by a person formerly in their employ (/cooperating with them), which no doubt has stressed Jessica and the team as well (no doubt this has involved [actual] drama which the community doesn't know about).
Further, one ought to keep in mind that Korean culture differs from the one we westerners are used to, so if anything, one should read those tweets/statements with a benign perspective, and not overblow the voiced frustrations of a person - especially from a culture which so values family and interpersonal relationships in general.
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
You mean changing his mind about not working and playing as a pro again ? Or leaving the team without talking to her beforehand... I can understand the latter, it still doesn't deserve the term "liar" in both cases. People have the right to change their mind. Now, if he planned it all along, it's another problem...
He left Slayers while claiming to intend on focusing on his job and only playing Starcraft as a hobby, then tweeted a few days after leaving that he was searching for a team and now joined Millenium. So, he claimed to leave the team to pursue other interests and then continues on focusing on Starcraft. This contrasts, eg. with Golden's and Sleep's behaviour, who were straightforward to Slayers about their intent to search for a new team, and had their "blessing" to do so (whereas Dragon seems to have acted less with less honesty).
Dragon's case is particularly sensitive because he has a history of stream cheating (among other allegations), and as Slayers gave him a "home" after being publicly shamed (with Dragon going so far as to state to "never dream of other tournaments, televised matches, or pursue a career as a pro-gamer") they no doubt expected him to appreciate their gesture and pay in kind, as in acting properly (to Korean standards).
One should also remember that very recently Slayers had their official twitter and facebook accounts hijacked by a person formerly in their employ (/cooperating with them), which no doubt has stressed Jessica and the team as well (no doubt this has involved [actual] drama which the community doesn't know about).
Further, one ought to keep in mind that Korean culture differs from the one we westerners are used to, so if anything, one should read those tweets/statements with a benign perspective, and not overblow the voiced frustrations of a person - especially from a culture which so values family and interpersonal relationships in general.
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
You mean changing his mind about not working and playing as a pro again ? Or leaving the team without talking to her beforehand... I can understand the latter, it still doesn't deserve the term "liar" in both cases. People have the right to change their mind. Now, if he planned it all along, it's another problem...
He left Slayers while claiming to intend on focusing on his job and only playing Starcraft as a hobby, then tweeted a few days after leaving that he was searching for a team and now joined Millenium. So, he claimed to leave the team to pursue other interests and then continues on focusing on Starcraft. This contrasts, eg. with Golden's and Sleep's behaviour, who were straightforward to Slayers about their intent to search for a new team, and had their "blessing" to do so (whereas Dragon seems to have acted less with less honesty).
Dragon's case is particularly sensitive because he has a history of stream cheating (among other allegations), and as Slayers gave him a "home" after being publicly shamed (with Dragon going so far as to state to "never dream of other tournaments, televised matches, or pursue a career as a pro-gamer") they no doubt expected him to appreciate their gesture and pay in kind, as in acting properly (to Korean standards).
One should also remember that very recently Slayers had their official twitter and facebook accounts hijacked by a person formerly in their employ (/cooperating with them), which no doubt has stressed Jessica and the team as well (no doubt this has involved [actual] drama which the community doesn't know about).
Further, one ought to keep in mind that Korean culture differs from the one we westerners are used to, so if anything, one should read those tweets/statements with a benign perspective, and not overblow the voiced frustrations of a person - especially from a culture which so values family and interpersonal relationships in general.
Given this, it seems that even a foreign team would be extraordinarily pissed off at him.
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
You mean changing his mind about not working and playing as a pro again ? Or leaving the team without talking to her beforehand... I can understand the latter, it still doesn't deserve the term "liar" in both cases. People have the right to change their mind. Now, if he planned it all along, it's another problem...
He left Slayers while claiming to intend on focusing on his job and only playing Starcraft as a hobby, then tweeted a few days after leaving that he was searching for a team and now joined Millenium. So, he claimed to leave the team to pursue other interests and then continues on focusing on Starcraft. This contrasts, eg. with Golden's and Sleep's behaviour, who were straightforward to Slayers about their intent to search for a new team, and had their "blessing" to do so (whereas Dragon seems to have acted less with less honesty).
Dragon's case is particularly sensitive because he has a history of stream cheating (among other allegations), and as Slayers gave him a "home" after being publicly shamed (with Dragon going so far as to state to "never dream of other tournaments, televised matches, or pursue a career as a pro-gamer") they no doubt expected him to appreciate their gesture and pay in kind, as in acting properly (to Korean standards).
One should also remember that very recently Slayers had their official twitter and facebook accounts hijacked by a person formerly in their employ (/cooperating with them), which no doubt has stressed Jessica and the team as well (no doubt this has involved [actual] drama which the community doesn't know about).
Further, one ought to keep in mind that Korean culture differs from the one we westerners are used to, so if anything, one should read those tweets/statements with a benign perspective, and not overblow the voiced frustrations of a person - especially from a culture which so values family and interpersonal relationships in general.
Why are you writing things that make sense ? Most people in this thread are kids full of entitlement and love of drama that even korean teenage girls from tv series cannot ever compete with. The funniest thing is I did not consider Jessica's tweets drama, the only drama I see is in this thread, with its fake "high horse" internet warriors. You do not need to be Korean to not be screaming bloody murder because of what Jessica wrote.
Boxer needs to get a lid on Jessica, she seems to be ruled by emotion and her expressive outlet is twitter. That, I feel is more likely to give Slayers a bad rap. In the players eyes. Who wants to be on a team with a vindictive manager? If your upset how a player left your team, talk about it privately. Don't air your dirty laundry on twitter.
People can blaim culture all they want, it has nothing to do with that. Shes a girl venting over the internet for the world to see, when she could just discuss it internally, but she likes to cause drama obviously this isnt the first time. You guys never seem to care about american culture but as soon as some korean causes drama its ok because they care about their "family" but apparently we dont! lol
On March 07 2012 18:33 SolidMustard wrote: "I was crazy for raising kids like them as if they were my own children."
... Come on, stop the freakin drama, girl! I may be wrong but it looks like clear exageration... It's not like they lost MMA or Puzzle, and maybe he was honest and just changed his mind. I'm so mad at her, who does she think she is?
"maybe this is why there's a saying "you get nothing out of raising people"? Why am I doing this?" Yeah, poor Jessica, you're a victim. Seriously, what is she thinking...
With all due respect, sir, you are a victim.
Most of you guys are criticizing Jessica not understanding the culture and I even see people trying to define Korean culture in an untrue way.
Do I support Jessica ongoing public on her private social network with this issue? I'm on the fence with that one. Can I emphasize with Jessica for her anger? Definitely.
First of all, let me make it clear that Jessica's exasperation comes from the fact that person not being honest and open-ended with the team - hiding the fact that he wants to join a different team. And don't try to shelter that person by saying that 'maybe he didn't know what he wanted at that time' or that it was a matter of miscommunication. Such things don't happen - especially in Korean culture.
Secondly, a team is much more personal in Korea than it is here in North America. Things are much more business like over here - if it doesn't fit your personal need, the hell with the team. In Korea, it's almost like (at least traditionally) a real family - if a member of your family leaves ur family (ie. a mother running away) it hurts the family no matter what. HOWEVER if there's a reason good enough for the person to leave the family, you could let that person go. THAT's why Jessica was hurt, and if u can't understand that, don't you dare attack her with your narrow-view of the world.
For those of you blindly accusing her of doing bad PR, while I am not 100% sure (being lived outside of Korea for about 20 years) how much more acceptable her action would be to the Koreans living in Korea, keep in mind that Jessica is someone living in Korea, managing a Korean team that has its base deeply rooted in Korean tradition and mentality.
Her utmost priority is to manage the team in the most efficient way, which is to manage it in Korean way, and if that causes displeasing the foreign fans, so be it.
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
You mean changing his mind about not working and playing as a pro again ? Or leaving the team without talking to her beforehand... I can understand the latter, it still doesn't deserve the term "liar" in both cases. People have the right to change their mind. Now, if he planned it all along, it's another problem...
He left Slayers while claiming to intend on focusing on his job and only playing Starcraft as a hobby, then tweeted a few days after leaving that he was searching for a team and now joined Millenium. So, he claimed to leave the team to pursue other interests and then continues on focusing on Starcraft. This contrasts, eg. with Golden's and Sleep's behaviour, who were straightforward to Slayers about their intent to search for a new team, and had their "blessing" to do so (whereas Dragon seems to have acted less with less honesty).
Dragon's case is particularly sensitive because he has a history of stream cheating (among other allegations), and as Slayers gave him a "home" after being publicly shamed (with Dragon going so far as to state to "never dream of other tournaments, televised matches, or pursue a career as a pro-gamer") they no doubt expected him to appreciate their gesture and pay in kind, as in acting properly (to Korean standards).
One should also remember that very recently Slayers had their official twitter and facebook accounts hijacked by a person formerly in their employ (/cooperating with them), which no doubt has stressed Jessica and the team as well (no doubt this has involved [actual] drama which the community doesn't know about).
Further, one ought to keep in mind that Korean culture differs from the one we westerners are used to, so if anything, one should read those tweets/statements with a benign perspective, and not overblow the voiced frustrations of a person - especially from a culture which so values family and interpersonal relationships in general.
Very good post, especially where Dragon states that he'd never pursue a career as a pro-gamer.
"you get nothing out of raising people"? Why am I doing this?
It makes you look very petty and insecure.
I know you're angry, but you are the adult and he's just a kid. You have to stay classy...
These are korean to english translations. You have to understand that these translations are NOT exact in any shape or form because there are words in korean that are extremely difficult to translate. So don't take the tweet as such drama
On March 08 2012 05:20 lastshadow wrote: No matter what, in Korean culture what Dragon did is unacceptable. This is strictly culture and everyone that is making a comment can't comprehend why, and you can't, until you come to Korea. Even if it seems small to people, it's actually not to Koreans.
You mean changing his mind about not working and playing as a pro again ? Or leaving the team without talking to her beforehand... I can understand the latter, it still doesn't deserve the term "liar" in both cases. People have the right to change their mind. Now, if he planned it all along, it's another problem...
He left Slayers while claiming to intend on focusing on his job and only playing Starcraft as a hobby, then tweeted a few days after leaving that he was searching for a team and now joined Millenium. So, he claimed to leave the team to pursue other interests and then continues on focusing on Starcraft. This contrasts, eg. with Golden's and Sleep's behaviour, who were straightforward to Slayers about their intent to search for a new team, and had their "blessing" to do so (whereas Dragon seems to have acted less with less honesty).
Dragon's case is particularly sensitive because he has a history of stream cheating (among other allegations), and as Slayers gave him a "home" after being publicly shamed (with Dragon going so far as to state to "never dream of other tournaments, televised matches, or pursue a career as a pro-gamer") they no doubt expected him to appreciate their gesture and pay in kind, as in acting properly (to Korean standards).
One should also remember that very recently Slayers had their official twitter and facebook accounts hijacked by a person formerly in their employ (/cooperating with them), which no doubt has stressed Jessica and the team as well (no doubt this has involved [actual] drama which the community doesn't know about).
Further, one ought to keep in mind that Korean culture differs from the one we westerners are used to, so if anything, one should read those tweets/statements with a benign perspective, and not overblow the voiced frustrations of a person - especially from a culture which so values family and interpersonal relationships in general.
Why are you writing things that make sense ? Most people in this thread are kids full of entitlement and love of drama that even korean teenage girls from tv series cannot ever compete with. The funniest thing is I did not consider Jessica's tweets drama, the only drama I see is in this thread, with its fake "high horse" internet warriors. You do not need to be Korean to not be screaming bloody murder because of what Jessica wrote.
Glad to see that at least some of you are being mature & rational, instead of being juvenile and attacking someone/something they do not understand.
Mehh...Jessica is still acting hysteric, cultural stuff or not. I can understand where Jessica's coming from but that doesn't mean I disagree with her actions any less. Dragon left SlayerS, all connections were cut. He played sc2 as a hobby for a couple of months, had a change of heart and looked for a team. Slayers has nothing to say about him, he left, that's the end of their relationship. How he lives his life afterwards is none of their business. He even picked a foreign team, he's even moving to France; left the Korean scene. He's completely out of SlayerS sight and yet they still make a big deal of it. He wasn't even particularly high-ranked in SlayerS...
I feel bad for Jessica, but it's not like he specifically left to join Mill.
He left using the pretense of work; which I don't see the problem with. Why would you live in the SlayerS house, be a progamer if you don't even compete as one... hence he went to work, decided that he wanted to try one more time to be a pro-gamer and was offered a spot on Mil on a foreign team.
On March 07 2012 17:36 Aserrin wrote: Do you guys honestly believe that Jessica calling Dragon out hurts SlayerS' reputation?
To the extent Dragon fans have to go... this is unreal.
Dragon fans? Looking at this from a completely business perspective, do you think that people would want to do business with slayers after seeing how crazy jessica gets when things that aren't completely in her favor go? Even if dragon completely lied, do you think that it's smart to slander people over twitter where everyone can see it? I'm a dragon fan but im also a huge slayers fan as well. This is not in the best interest for slayers by far.
Dragon lied, how is this bad for slayers? Should this have come out on twitter? No, but at the end of the day did Dragon lie? Yes.
On March 08 2012 07:46 Sickkiee wrote: I feel bad for Jessica, but it's not like he specifically left to join Mill.
He left using the pretense of work; which I don't see the problem with. Why would you live in the SlayerS house, be a progamer if you don't even compete as one... hence he went to work, decided that he wanted to try one more time to be a pro-gamer and was offered a spot on Mil on a foreign team.
Whats so bad about that.
Too lazy to read the post at the top of this page? Or any of the posts in the last 10? Jesus.
Why can't people just be happy with the success of others - Dragon was going nowhere on SlayerS and now he's on a successful international team and will be attending foreign events.
It is so petty to come out and insult him in public, Jessica needs some business acumen training so she doesn't put her foot in her mouth again and ruin SlayerS' reputation.
On March 07 2012 17:09 johnnywup wrote: jessica needs to stop responding publicly to this stuff >_>
Jessica needs to shut the fuck up. This attitude is ridiculous.
calm down
On March 08 2012 07:28 LuciferSC wrote: Let me add one more thing.
For those of you blindly accusing her of doing bad PR, while I am not 100% sure (being lived outside of Korea for about 20 years) how much more acceptable her action would be to the Koreans living in Korea, keep in mind that Jessica is someone living in Korea, managing a Korean team that has its base deeply rooted in Korean tradition and mentality.
Her utmost priority is to manage the team in the most efficient way, which is to manage it in Korean way, and if that causes displeasing the foreign fans, so be it.
this is something people need to consider before posting.
Ok, I think everyone understands there is a difference in our cultures. But when you bring the situation TO teamliquid, you have to expect people to be angry when she says stuff like: "The fact that we had a liar like you on the team is embarrassing", or "Why am I doing this?". These are very cold-hearted words for a community of like-minded gamers, and as such it causes drama/ complaining from the community (as much as I would like there to be no threads like this in the first place..).
I'm wondering if someone can explain what Jessica or Boxer really did for Dragon. I'm not being sarcastic or an ass, I'm genuinely curious. Sure, he got to put the SlayerS tag in front of his name after he screwed up early in the game's life. However, he never lived in the SlayerS house aside from very brief stints for Code A qualifiers. If he had any salary at all it had to be minuscule as he still had to work at the shipyard for money.
If anyone has anymore insight on how Dragon was raised by Jessica, I'd be really interested to hear and could help shed light on why she is upset yet again.
I'd understand if she was some random girl tweeting about her life, but shes a team manager and going all drama about this kind of things doesn't look good at all...
But whatever, aren't some of you guys from the USA? Jessica has a right to voice her opinions. I don't get why her doing so offends people. I've never heard any horror stories telling me that SlayerS have an internal dark side, they don't mistreat their players - they treat them like family.
So Boxer / Jessica's team's word (as people keep pointing out, she represents the team) vs a proven stream cheater and liar? Who's side, if I had to take one (which I don't, who care's seriously), do you think you should take?
She's right, Dragon is an ungrateful traitorous brat. Calling a spade a spade. Leopard and spots and all that, cheater grows into a liar.
There need to be more players in Korea leaving their team and joining others. So that managers etc. finally understand that the players are neither their property nor part of the family or whatever. It is just a team, not more and not less. And as long as there is no contract that says otherwise players are free to leave their team at any time.
On March 08 2012 08:29 Redox wrote: There need to be more players in Korea leaving their team and joining others. So that managers etc. finally understand that the players are neither their property nor part of the family or whatever. It is just a team, not more and not less. And as long as there is no contract that says otherwise players are free to leave their team at any time.
I'm certain something like this has been said before in this thread, but it's an important point to drill home: Not every culture is like yours (or mine). The Korean (asian in general) culture is much different from conventional Western culture, and there is more of a family-like social structure in things that we would have a different structure. Heck, it's not even specific to Korea. Japanese companies has long been known for the difference in their employee-employer relationship, specifically with regards to employee/employer loyalty.
People here are interpreting her personal statements regarding this situation as something more than they are. This is a personal reaction to something Dragon did. It's not much different from someone in the Western world saying they felt like they got stabbed in the back because someone left their organization and joined a competitor the next week. Anyone who says they don't feel at least a bit betrayed didn't value that person to begin with.
On March 08 2012 08:21 DaemonX wrote:Dragon is an ungrateful brat. Calling a spade a spade.
You mean Slayers weren't paying him a lot or even playing him in leagues and stuff? So he figures he will leave, with the -intention- to not pursue programing any more after this experience.
Then another team sees him leave and goes "wait a sec, this guy is actually sick good, we should pick him up and give him a chance how he's teamless", and encourages him out of retirement. The fact someone else jumped on this oppurtunity doesn't mean Dragon misrepresented himself to Slayers.
I don't know if any of this is fact, but Jessica is not giving any basis to her ranting. We don't know for sure when Millienium started showing interest in Dragon. If someone can prove it's before he announced he was leaving Slayers, Jessica might have a point, but idk.
Jessica seems a bit obsessive about this type of thing. Even for korean standards it's a bit odd. No disrespect meant here, I just mean to say that her behaviour is a bit on the extreme side of things.
On March 08 2012 08:29 Redox wrote: There need to be more players in Korea leaving their team and joining others. So that managers etc. finally understand that the players are neither their property nor part of the family or whatever. It is just a team, not more and not less. And as long as there is no contract that says otherwise players are free to leave their team at any time.
So you're saying that we should enforced the way we see and grasp business as on to them because their cultural influences on teams and business etc is wrong and we're right? ok..........
On March 07 2012 17:30 dearyuna wrote: I do not disagree with Jessica's feelings, however I do disagree with her actions. I understand why she has her feelings of betrayal, but this is definitely not the way to go about it. In the tweet with Violet she mentions how she's scared about how Dragon's actions in the foreign scene might possibly hurt SlayerS reputation... however her ranting is hurting their reputation as well. It creates unnecessary drama, in my opinion.
I have to agree with this..but also have to bring in the cultural differences when talking about her actions of thinking he was one of her own. Bleh..I hope this drama blows over and everything can go back to normal.
On March 08 2012 08:21 DaemonX wrote:Dragon is an ungrateful brat. Calling a spade a spade.
You mean Slayers weren't paying him a lot or even playing him in leagues and stuff? So he figures he will leave, with the -intention- to not pursue programing any more after this experience.
Then another team sees him leave and goes "wait a sec, this guy is actually sick good, we should pick him up and give him a chance how he's teamless", and encourages him out of retirement. The fact someone else jumped on this oppurtunity doesn't mean Dragon misrepresented himself to Slayers.
I don't know if any of this is fact, but Jessica is not giving any basis to her ranting. We don't know for sure when Millienium started showing interest in Dragon. If someone can prove it's before he announced he was leaving Slayers, Jessica might have a point, but idk.
Wait I specificaly remember reading about Dragon leaving Slayers to pursue a foreign team. And on his stream he is constantly vying for attention and asking questions about foreign teams. Retirement my butt, he couldn't get on the B team and he felt like he would have better chances outside. That's great. But being too much of a pussy to tell the people who gave him his first chance after he ruined his own image by cheating? That means he is a child. And Jessica is specifically scolding...a child.
What confuses me is how noone can see her point? He could just apologize and say he is sorry and that he was too much of a coward to tell his team the truth. And that would be the end of it. No need for you nubs to come out and cry for him, ok?
On March 08 2012 08:29 Redox wrote: There need to be more players in Korea leaving their team and joining others. So that managers etc. finally understand that the players are neither their property nor part of the family or whatever. It is just a team, not more and not less. And as long as there is no contract that says otherwise players are free to leave their team at any time.
So you're saying that we should enforced the way we see and grasp business as on to them because their cultural influences on teams and business etc is wrong and we're right? ok..........
What? I did not say we should do anything. You seem to be kinda confused.
Wow.. just wow.. there is waaaay too much drama in this community, and jessica doesn't understand it obviously. Its like the press for Movie stars anything seen public will make drama.. It will just hurt her more..
Dragon lied, end of story. I'm happy for him, but isn't it a tad weird that he's the only one that was leaving to try to find a foreign team that lied?
I'm not a big fan of Dragon. Watched his stream a couple times, and he just wasn't that interesting. On the other hand, I deeply respect Boxer and consider him to perhaps be the single most important person for Esports. That's where my biases lie.
That said, I think Jessica is acting with terrible PR. What she seems to not understand is, she is no longer an individual with personal opinions. She is one of the faces of Team SlayerS. Her actions are no longer her own; they are the actions of SlayerS. She is not allowed to act as unprofessional as this. Imagine the outrage if coL had publicly attacked Stephano after the incident with Mill. She can't get a free ride on this because of "Korean tradition" or the popularity of Team SlayerS. You don't see this from anyone else in the Korean proscene, except maybe Coach Lee. She is acting horribly unprofessionally, regardless of what Dragon did, and at this point I think Boxer needs to bite the bullet and get someone other than his girlfriend to be responsible for PR. Bitching and whining on Twitter is not acceptable from anyone.
I'm not 100% sure on the whole story, but from what I have heard from Dragon, I don't think he flat out lied to SlayerS and made up stuff about going to work else where full time. Pretty sure after he joined Mill he stated that he had intentions to go to work, but wanted to give it about a month just to see what happens. It does appear that Dragon could have been more up front with SlayerS, but I really have yet to see anything that makes me think he lied to them in order to sneak off to another team.
Of course there is probably more to this story than any of us will ever know.
I'd be terrified to even join Slayers if I was a progamer. You could forget to leave the seat down and you'd have Jessica tweeting about how big of a piece of shit you are.
Occam's razor tells me that it is unlikely that Dragon would flat out lie if he were intending to move directly to Mill. What does he gain from lying? It's not that difficult to tell your team manager that you're leaving to join a foreign team, he should know that they'd be supportive of that. I'm sure he was shopping around for a team for awhile, but who knows whether he actually found Mill before or after he talked to Jessica about leaving?
Don't get me wrong, in my opinion anyone who cheats is a scumbag and does not deserve a second chance, I take a very hard view on such things. But scumbag or not, Jessica is greatly overreacting.
On March 08 2012 09:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote: I'd be terrified to even join Slayers if I was a progamer. You could forget to leave the seat down and you'd have Jessica tweeting about how big of a piece of shit you are.
LOL amen to that. I don't know about you guys, but I've lost a bit of faith in Boxer after this... not to sound misogynistic, but I kind of expected Boxer to step in after all this drama, and all the previous tweets. After all, it is HIS team, and HIS wife. I'm not saying I expect Boxer to put his women in her place, but as team leader/life partner/role model, I'd expected him to end this by now.
If SlayerS doesn't show the players that they have that they want to keep them in their team, through whatever means neccissary, then it's ridiculous to cause so much drama when a player leaves.
Proteams are employers, players are employees. If someone offers you a better job it isn't the employees fault for leaving, it's the employers.
On March 08 2012 09:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote: I'd be terrified to even join Slayers if I was a progamer. You could forget to leave the seat down and you'd have Jessica tweeting about how big of a piece of shit you are.
LOL amen to that. I don't know about you guys, but I've lost a bit of faith in Boxer after this... not to sound misogynistic, but I kind of expected Boxer to step in after all this drama, and all the previous tweets. After all, it is HIS team, and HIS wife. I'm not saying I expect Boxer to put his women in her place, but as team leader/life partner/role model, I'd expected him to end this by now.
there is no drama...you guys are creating drama out of nothing.
she was frustrated and just tweeted, people do this all the time on fb and tweeter.
On March 08 2012 09:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote: I'd be terrified to even join Slayers if I was a progamer. You could forget to leave the seat down and you'd have Jessica tweeting about how big of a piece of shit you are.
LOL amen to that. I don't know about you guys, but I've lost a bit of faith in Boxer after this... not to sound misogynistic, but I kind of expected Boxer to step in after all this drama, and all the previous tweets. After all, it is HIS team, and HIS wife. I'm not saying I expect Boxer to put his women in her place, but as team leader/life partner/role model, I'd expected him to end this by now.
there is no drama...you guys are creating drama out of nothing.
she was frustrated and just tweeted, people do this all the time on fb and tweeter.
Any other PR person for any other company would have been fired over continuous mistakes though. A PR person is not supposed to act this way. It's immature and childish. How can we expect SC2 to be taken seriously if the people running it are children?
On March 08 2012 09:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote: I'd be terrified to even join Slayers if I was a progamer. You could forget to leave the seat down and you'd have Jessica tweeting about how big of a piece of shit you are.
LOL amen to that. I don't know about you guys, but I've lost a bit of faith in Boxer after this... not to sound misogynistic, but I kind of expected Boxer to step in after all this drama, and all the previous tweets. After all, it is HIS team, and HIS wife. I'm not saying I expect Boxer to put his women in her place, but as team leader/life partner/role model, I'd expected him to end this by now.
there is no drama...you guys are creating drama out of nothing.
she was frustrated and just tweeted, people do this all the time on fb and tweeter.
most of those 'people who do this all the time' are teenage girls, not PR/Managers of famous organizations.
it just seems like beating a dead horse, like how some people still bring up naniwa. maybe she shouldn't say such personal things to public, maybe its no big deal. shes just pissed and is venting on her tweeter like any other person would. it wouldn't be her fault for tweeting not because shes famous/pr/whatever but because she forgot what she says could cause a shitstorm for no reason.
On March 08 2012 09:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote: I'd be terrified to even join Slayers if I was a progamer. You could forget to leave the seat down and you'd have Jessica tweeting about how big of a piece of shit you are.
LOL amen to that. I don't know about you guys, but I've lost a bit of faith in Boxer after this... not to sound misogynistic, but I kind of expected Boxer to step in after all this drama, and all the previous tweets. After all, it is HIS team, and HIS wife. I'm not saying I expect Boxer to put his women in her place, but as team leader/life partner/role model, I'd expected him to end this by now.
there is no drama...you guys are creating drama out of nothing.
she was frustrated and just tweeted, people do this all the time on fb and tweeter.
Any other PR person for any other company would have been fired over continuous mistakes though. A PR person is not supposed to act this way. It's immature and childish. How can we expect SC2 to be taken seriously if the people running it are children?
This is primarily a cultural difference issue, actually - Not really comparable to a company's PR person stepping out of line. This is also something that's fairly unique to StarCraft's community as far as eSports goes. I'm pretty sure people in this community would faint if they saw how controversies are handled and talked about in other eSports.
Don't delude yourselves, SC2 isn't big enough to the point that Jessica's tweets actually have an effect on the way sponsors view SlayerS, lmao. Celebrities rant on twitter, professionals rant on facebook, it happens.
I'm am multicultural, intimately familiar with both eastern and western cultures. I understand the whole thing about respecting your elders, etc. This whole thing about Jessica behaving in the context of the Korean culture to excuse her behavior, it is nonsense.
First, let's consider a couple of scenarios that most likely happened. 1st scenario: Dragon leaves the team because he can't commit fully to them, intending to work a regular job and play as a hobby, then later changes his mind. 2nd scenario: Dragon doesn't want to create any drama for the team about his departure. He doesn't want to say anything bad about his former teammates and team. So he says he's leaving for a neutral reason to save their face, and later "changes his mind". He left the team without creating any bad impression of them. Also, he may still have truly intended regular work as an alternative.
It's debatable this thing about truth/lies, but sometimes there are good white lies. If you know a stalker asking for the address of his victim, and you know the address, you should not tell the truth.
Back to Jessica. Please grow up. If she look at what she says, it's selfish, narcissistic type "why do I even bother raising them", etc. It likes the boss who buys pizza for his subordinates, but no one acknowledges him like "wow, you're awesome, thanks for buying the pizza for us" and he rants about how no one appreciates him and what he does for them. The boss misses the point completely, too into himself. With Jessica's tweet, she's trying to destroy his image. That's really ugly drama.
As for Dragon's past, people make mistakes. His was minor and deserves complete redemption. If you can't forgive, then leave him alone. Why the hate? What has he done to you?
Paul Allen, cofounder of Microsoft, writes in his biography how he overheard Bill Gates and Steve Balmer conspiring to reduce his share in the company because they felt he wasn't contributing enough. When Bill Gates was asked about that, he said "I don't remember it happening like that". Most likely it happened, and he "lied" about it. But Bill Gates is a prominent figure of philanthropy. Whatever mistakes he made in his past, he's probably trying to atone for it with current actions.
Bill Clinton. "What is 'is'?" 'nuff said. Now he's a leading figure in the humanitarian world.
Newt Gringrich, a presidential candidate, was asked in a news interview about him telling some agency head to "overlook a certain policy", and he said "I don't recall that happening".
Dragon's mistake. Very minor. He learned from it. He handled it by gracefully apologizing.
On March 08 2012 07:46 Sickkiee wrote: I feel bad for Jessica, but it's not like he specifically left to join Mill.
He left using the pretense of work; which I don't see the problem with. Why would you live in the SlayerS house, be a progamer if you don't even compete as one... hence he went to work, decided that he wanted to try one more time to be a pro-gamer and was offered a spot on Mil on a foreign team.
Whats so bad about that.
Too lazy to read the post at the top of this page? Or any of the posts in the last 10? Jesus.
People are blowing this out of proportion.... Jessica was just venting on Twitter because she deeply cares about her team SlayerS image and she was insulted because of Dragon's actions. Although she might have crossed the line with some fierce statements lets not jump to bear pitchforks just like the time she tweeted about the SlayerS_Eve controversy.
On March 08 2012 09:52 xiaofan wrote: LOL amen to that. I don't know about you guys, but I've lost a bit of faith in Boxer after this... not to sound misogynistic, but I kind of expected Boxer to step in after all this drama, and all the previous tweets. After all, it is HIS team, and HIS wife. I'm not saying I expect Boxer to put his women in her place, but as team leader/life partner/role model, I'd expected him to end this by now.
First of all, Boxer and Jessica are not husband and wife, they are just in a relationship for all we know. Second of all, Boxer is the team's coach and also a player, he focuses on improving his own play while coaching the other SlayerS members' play at the same time, organizing practice, discussing strategy, etc. Jessica is the team manager, she handles the overall team structure and is the voice of the team. She is EXTREMELY sensitive about her team's image and will fight anyone who tries to tarnish it(see SlayerS_Eve incident.) Boxer is no position nor does he have the time to make a statement for a drama that shouldn't exist in the first place.
On March 08 2012 10:44 hsun wrote: I'm am multicultural, intimately familiar with both eastern and western cultures. I understand the whole thing about respecting your elders, etc. This whole thing about Jessica behaving in the context of the Korean culture to excuse her behavior, it is nonsense.
First, let's consider a couple of scenarios that most likely happened. 1st scenario: Dragon leaves the team because he can't commit fully to them, intending to work a regular job and play as a hobby, then later changes his mind. 2nd scenario: Dragon doesn't want to create any drama for the team about his departure. He doesn't want to say anything bad about his former teammates and team. So he says he's leaving for a neutral reason to save their face, and later "changes his mind". He left the team without creating any bad impression of them. Also, he may still have truly intended regular work as an alternative.
It's debatable this thing about truth/lies, but sometimes there are good white lies. If you know a stalker asking for the address of his victim, and you know the address, you should not tell the truth.
Back to Jessica. Please grow up. If she look at what she says, it's selfish, narcissistic type "why do I even bother raising them", etc. It likes the boss who buys pizza for his subordinates, but no one acknowledges him like "wow, you're awesome, thanks for buying the pizza for us" and he rants about how no one appreciates him and what he does for them. The boss misses the point completely, too into himself. With Jessica's tweet, she's trying to destroy his image. That's really ugly drama.
As for Dragon's past, people make mistakes. His was minor and deserves complete redemption. If you can't forgive, then leave him alone. Why the hate? What has he done to you?
Paul Allen, cofounder of Microsoft, writes in his biography how he overheard Bill Gates and Steve Balmer conspiring to reduce his share in the company because they felt he wasn't contributing enough. When Bill Gates was asked about that, he said "I don't remember it happening like that". Most likely it happened, and he "lied" about it. But Bill Gates is a prominent figure of philanthropy. Whatever mistakes he made in his past, he's probably trying to atone for it with current actions.
Bill Clinton. "What is 'is'?" 'nuff said. Now he's a leading figure in the humanitarian world.
Newt Gringrich, a presidential candidate, was asked in a news interview about him telling some agency head to "overlook a certain policy", and he said "I don't recall that happening".
Dragon's mistake. Very minor. He learned from it. He handled it by gracefully apologizing.
You are correct that Jessica is being very dramatic about the whole issue and should not have said so much on twitter for everyone to see. Her feelings are understandable but that does not mean that they should be expressed openly for everyone to read. She has fault in this, obviously.
However you are not giving Dragon his due fault in this issue. Your two scenarios are biased twists on the actual situation, which has been more or less determined for a while now.
Dragon tweeted that he had decided to leave SlayerS without actually informing the team beforehand. When asked about his reasons, he stated that it was because he wanted to focus on work and only play Sc2 as a hobby. For those claiming he was not actively searching for a team, Dragon tweeted one month later that he had been searching for a team the whole time, and those who watch him stream also attest to his frequent inquiries into foreign teams. This is not a "white lie". He was on the team, and decided to lie to get out of the team when all he had to do was tell the truth.
And about his "minor mistake", it was not minor. He cheated during a tournament (and supposedly on ladder as well). In no way is that minor and immediately forgiveable. His apology was not "graceful" in any way because he went overboard, stating he would no longer pursue a progaming career (which he obviously did not mean, so he should not have said it). He was criticized when he joined a tournament right after. His mistake was not minor. Your view on the subject is unfortunately misguided.
I do think he deserves to be given a chance to prove himself, but forgiveness should be earned. He will be redeemed when he proves that he has learned his lesson, has matured, and now understands the consequences of his actions.
I just could care less what she has to say at this point. Only hear about her when she is bitching about something or calling somebody out. Bizarre behavior, demonstrated over and over again.
I feel that Jessica is doing this and it's perfectly fine, SlayerS is a team a lot of fans enjoy and one of the main reasons we enjoy it is because it has emotion involved in it, and I personally feel invested in it emotionally when I see the players play, I'm more of a SlayerS fan than any other team, and I enjoy to watch all their players play and always hope they all perform well. Much like I feel about Team Liquid, I love TL because it is similar to me. And TL is the kind of team that doesn't leave it's people in the cold either.
On March 08 2012 05:08 Avril_Lavigne wrote: It's funny how everyone bashes on Jessica for the situation and how she's reacting. Do you even know Jessica's job? what she does with the team, how she raises the team, etc etc. I'm sure she's put in a lot of effort to keep the team together and progressing as it should yet everyone bashes on her as if she's simply "the owner" of team SlayerS. No one outside of SlayerS or Korea even know the relationship/bond she has with her teammates, and perhaps how her teammates return that relationship to her. So don't act like she's just your ordinary boss or your ordinary teacher because in Korean culture, lots of strong relationships happen whether it looks unprofessional in the U.S. or in EU or whatever other country. As residents of the U.S. or where ever you are, you're not going to fully understand the situation given the circumstances (culture, ethics, morality, business). So stop judging. Lying is a big deal in Korea, they put a lot of emphasis in integrity honor, etc, and as a citizen of USA I'd easily admit that this type of shit doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes to money.
You are probably right in your assessment that most people here do not know what they are talking about. Admittedly I probably do not know enough about the situation to make definitive comments. However it is indicative that the majority of fans representing themselves in this thread seem to have a lesser opinion of Jessica based on her reaction. That should be taken into account on by her since it isn't the first time she has received criticism from the this community. Also it seems a large number of critics here are more bothered by the way she handled the issue (unprofessionally) rather than her position on the issue. I am not saying that an ignorant community should be appeased or that people shouldn't educate themselves on a situation before discussing, but that the general reaction is indicative that a lot of people think less of her (and possibly of Slayers) because of her actions. And if that is the case she and everyone else handling PR in the same community should be able to learn from it.
I don't think bashing should be encouraged, but if people are annoyed by her then she deserves to know by reading the specific responses of the masses. So as a community we shouldn't automatically tell people to shut up when the ignorant reactions could be helpful. What we should do is encourage good informative posting and still allow helpful posts that may not be as informative.
Jessica single-handedly managed to stop me supporting SlayerS as a team a while ago. I never had the emotional connection to SlayerS as some of the BW fans. In the beginning though I thought Jessica was one of the cooler figures in the SC2 scene, so I started liking SlayerS as a team because of her (and Ryung, who I still think is cool, only if he would play more interesting T_T). She then started to show a very aggressive behavior (both in her promotion of her team and in defending it), and as a fan I felt more and more uneasy.
I think the last drop was the Eve spectacle. First she introduces Eve dressed up in Jessica's medic vest and not the standard SlayerS outfit. When Jessica used this costume, I thought it was cute. Jessica, the medic and Boxer, the marine. It fit, since they were a couple, and Jessica had a special position as a PR manager. When Eve was dressed up in the same costume, my alarm bells were ringing loudly. Why is she not using the standard SlayerS player uniform? Is she not part of the team? Is she just for show? Apparently Jessica wanted to use her as a publicity stunt. The backlash was imminent, and then Jessica was perplexed of the negative reaction following this. I actually got angry, because I could see it miles away that this would create an outrage. Jessica played the victim and called everybody evil, and Eve is suffering because of those evil people. I am not going to defend the people who rage against female gamers (I am actually one of the infamous white knights), but Jessica made a huge blunder and approached the introduction of a female gamer in worst way possible. Because of the little foresight of Jessica, and her eagerness to get cheap publicity, Eve had a very rough start in the Esports world. It kinda went downhill from there.
Oh, and about the Dragon business? I never liked Dragon very much, and Jessica is probably right. Her approach of the situation is horrible as usual though. [/rant]
On March 07 2012 17:36 Aserrin wrote: Do you guys honestly believe that Jessica calling Dragon out hurts SlayerS' reputation?
To the extent Dragon fans have to go... this is unreal.
Dragon fans? Looking at this from a completely business perspective, do you think that people would want to do business with slayers after seeing how crazy jessica gets when things that aren't completely in her favor go? Even if dragon completely lied, do you think that it's smart to slander people over twitter where everyone can see it? I'm a dragon fan but im also a huge slayers fan as well. This is not in the best interest for slayers by far.
And from what do you base these assumptions? do you know anything about korean culture/society and the way in which businesses interact with? the same culture/society that slayers is based in? I'm guessing not. So seriously you kids need to stop talking about shit you don't know, it makes the community look stupid when in reality these individuals simply are the vocal minority.
I actually dont mind this from dragon, he left and maybe he gave a b.s. excuse as to why but it was jessica's fault for making it public which makes slayers and dragon both look bad, if she would've just kept it to herself no one would've thought twice about it.
On March 08 2012 11:25 lichter wrote: You are correct that Jessica is being very dramatic about the whole issue and should not have said so much on twitter for everyone to see. Her feelings are understandable but that does not mean that they should be expressed openly for everyone to read. She has fault in this, obviously.
However you are not giving Dragon his due fault in this issue. Your two scenarios are biased twists on the actual situation, which has been more or less determined for a while now.
Dragon tweeted that he had decided to leave SlayerS without actually informing the team beforehand. When asked about his reasons, he stated that it was because he wanted to focus on work and only play Sc2 as a hobby. For those claiming he was not actively searching for a team, Dragon tweeted one month later that he had been searching for a team the whole time, and those who watch him stream also attest to his frequent inquiries into foreign teams. This is not a "white lie". He was on the team, and decided to lie to get out of the team when all he had to do was tell the truth.
And about his "minor mistake", it was not minor. He cheated during a tournament (and supposedly on ladder as well). In no way is that minor and immediately forgiveable. His apology was not "graceful" in any way because he went overboard, stating he would no longer pursue a progaming career (which he obviously did not mean, so he should not have said it). He was criticized when he joined a tournament right after. His mistake was not minor. Your view on the subject is unfortunately misguided.
I do think he deserves to be given a chance to prove himself, but forgiveness should be earned. He will be redeemed when he proves that he has learned his lesson, has matured, and now understands the consequences of his actions.
You did not comprehend anything I said. I have acknowledged that Dragon make mistakes in his past; that is giving him his due fault, and I forgave him. Also, I never said he lied, I said even if he lied, it was still a white lie because his intent was to probably save their face. Do you understand the concept of saving face?
My scenarios and your scenario are conjectures, true, but there is no reason for me to believe or accept your version over mine. I have watched him stream. I know he wanted a foreign team. So what? What's the big deal? He left Slayers, then changed his mind; what the one guy posted about occam's razor, and is probably closest to the truth.
Cheating during a tournament. We agree he should be given a second chance, but how long do you plan to crucify him? He has been crucified enough, when it happened and even now, especially in his streams by haters who come and talk smack to him. And how should he redeem himself? Not handling it gracefully? What are you talking about? Look at Bill Clinton, going into the very definition of the word "is" and only later, after trials, officially making an apology. And some people just deny worse situations they're guilty of, saying there's no conclusive evidence. Dragon APOLOGIZED immediately, and true, he went overboard in the spur of the moment, saying he would not participate in future tournaments, because he felt deeply ashamed and regretful over it. He wants to play again, and you want to kill him over what he said.
Minor/not minor mistake. This is subjective. No one ever said anything about it being immediately forgivable. What, is more than a year and half too short a time span for you?
I think we have mostly different viewpoints, and we are going to continue to disagree about alot of things in anger, so I'm ending my discussion with you here.
normal reaction imo, not a fan of talking about it public mode, but its still better then whats common in eu, talking behind the backs of people.
Probably got to be korean to belief someone leaving like dragon did and saying, they go for rl and don't plan to comeback. Dragon acts pretty immature and i wouldn't be surprised if he pulls of one of his old habits again. But i don't think this would affect slayers reputation. Nevertheless immature behavior is often overlooked on the western internet, but complaining about it gives alot of drama reactions. So yeah jessica's reaction is hurting slayers international rep, but how should she know we accept such childish behavior.
lol amazing a lot of people are talking like they had first hand experience with the situation when in fact, I'm sure nobody has. First off, It's her twitter and she can write whatever the fuck she wants on her page. It's not like she went to the press and had them write an article on the situation or went on somebody else's twitter writing shit. She had invested time and trusted the players the SlayerS team recruited. During the team leagues, SlayerS always put out lesser known players on the team so they could get exposure and make a big name for themselves which will make SlayerS looks like an all around dominant team. It's slap in the face when you help somebody get a name, help them get the necessary training to become a fanatical player and then they leave to another team but only after lying to you or not even communicating to the coach that your leaving their team. Unprofessional on both sides but if you look at the coaching side of it, SCII isn't a professional sport; there's no Kespa, Government entity, Pro Gaming Licensing or even a complete rule book stating what can and what can't be done. In other words, she can say whatever the fuck she'd like. Also, it was in korean for a reason; if she really wanted you peoples opinions she would have had both a copy in Korean and English.
Also, "Shelke14" you saying that Jessica tweeting like this makes you less and less of a fan of SlayerS only shows that you weren't really a fan to begin with lol
On March 08 2012 11:59 hunts wrote: It's kinda weird how she says "I raised those kids like they were my own" when she is still basically acting like a child.
She basically put her career on hold to help manage the team. She definitely acts like a mother figure to the team.
On March 08 2012 11:59 hunts wrote: It's kinda weird how she says "I raised those kids like they were my own" when she is still basically acting like a child.
She basically put her career on hold to help manage the team. She definitely acts like a mother figure to the team.
In interviews of SlayerS players they always mention how Jessica takes care of all of them and acts as their mom in the team house. Not a big fan of the team but I admire the family environment that they foster.
I think she needs to just calm down alittle an not speak her mind in such a way that comes off as unprofessional as it currently does. An to play devil's advocate it could be completely possible that Dragon did intend to only play SC2 as a hobby an go back to his old job then Mil. came along an offered him an amount of money that he just couldn't turn down. I mean look at the Huk situation, EG came along an offered Huk a megafuckton of cash an even though he loved liquid moved teams. SO really only Dragon knows the whole story between his leaving SlayerS an joining Mil. a month or so later.
On March 08 2012 12:44 Catatonic wrote: I think she needs to just calm down alittle an not speak her mind in such a way that comes off as unprofessional as it currently does. An to play devil's advocate it could be completely possible that Dragon did intend to only play SC2 as a hobby an go back to his old job then Mil. came along an offered him an amount of money that he just couldn't turn down. I mean look at the Huk situation, EG came along an offered Huk a megafuckton of cash an even though he loved liquid moved teams. SO really only Dragon knows the whole story between his leaving SlayerS an joining Mil. a month or so later.
Someone needs to update the OP with more information so that people know all the facts.
Dragon posted on twitter one month after leaving SlayerS that he had been searching for a team for a month already. Basically he'd been searching for a new team since right after leaving.
Jessica's behavior is bad but it's not all that uncommon for managers of pro sports teams to also vent their anger in public at bad situations, although it's kind of weird that she does it on a public forum where she herself types it all out. I think it's fine to be upset about this because she does feel deceived by a player that she may have invested a lot of time and effort into developing. I think the tone is a little inappropriate but it conveys the message that she is outraged and feels betrayed.
On March 08 2012 11:25 lichter wrote: You are correct that Jessica is being very dramatic about the whole issue and should not have said so much on twitter for everyone to see. Her feelings are understandable but that does not mean that they should be expressed openly for everyone to read. She has fault in this, obviously.
However you are not giving Dragon his due fault in this issue. Your two scenarios are biased twists on the actual situation, which has been more or less determined for a while now.
Dragon tweeted that he had decided to leave SlayerS without actually informing the team beforehand. When asked about his reasons, he stated that it was because he wanted to focus on work and only play Sc2 as a hobby. For those claiming he was not actively searching for a team, Dragon tweeted one month later that he had been searching for a team the whole time, and those who watch him stream also attest to his frequent inquiries into foreign teams. This is not a "white lie". He was on the team, and decided to lie to get out of the team when all he had to do was tell the truth.
And about his "minor mistake", it was not minor. He cheated during a tournament (and supposedly on ladder as well). In no way is that minor and immediately forgiveable. His apology was not "graceful" in any way because he went overboard, stating he would no longer pursue a progaming career (which he obviously did not mean, so he should not have said it). He was criticized when he joined a tournament right after. His mistake was not minor. Your view on the subject is unfortunately misguided.
I do think he deserves to be given a chance to prove himself, but forgiveness should be earned. He will be redeemed when he proves that he has learned his lesson, has matured, and now understands the consequences of his actions.
You did not comprehend anything I said. I have acknowledged that Dragon make mistakes in his past; that is giving him his due fault, and I forgave him. Also, I never said he lied, I said even if he lied, it was still a white lie because his intent was to probably save their face. Do you understand the concept of saving face?
My scenarios and your scenario are conjectures, true, but there is no reason for me to believe or accept your version over mine. I have watched him stream. I know he wanted a foreign team. So what? What's the big deal? He left Slayers, then changed his mind; what the one guy posted about occam's razor, and is probably closest to the truth.
Cheating during a tournament. We agree he should be given a second chance, but how long do you plan to crucify him? He has been crucified enough, when it happened and even now, especially in his streams by haters who come and talk smack to him. And how should he redeem himself? Not handling it gracefully? What are you talking about? Look at Bill Clinton, going into the very definition of the word "is" and only later, after trials, officially making an apology. And some people just deny worse situations they're guilty of, saying there's no conclusive evidence. Dragon APOLOGIZED immediately, and true, he went overboard in the spur of the moment, saying he would not participate in future tournaments, because he felt deeply ashamed and regretful over it. He wants to play again, and you want to kill him over what he said.
Minor/not minor mistake. This is subjective. No one ever said anything about it being immediately forgivable. What, is more than a year and half too short a time span for you?
I think we have mostly different viewpoints, and we are going to continue to disagree about alot of things in anger, so I'm ending my discussion with you here.
Dragon did not apologize immediately. He kept denying it over and over and WeRRa clan actually pressured STC to apologize for his initial accusations. However, evidences just kept piling up, all people were talking about on the Korean forums was Dragon, and he finally cracked and made a rude post saying something along the lines of "Yeah, I did it, so what?", which he took down shortly. Cella and Gundam later made him put up an actual apology post.
Come on... just how many times do I need to correct people making up stories?
PS: Oh, and about his apology, it is obviously debatable how sincere it was, but most Koreans who read it in their native language didn't think it sounded sincere at all. That is, at least the ones who were posting on the forums during that period.
I'm surprised that people freak out when Jessica gets so mad and defensive about her players, it is honestly one of the reasons I like the SlayerS team so much. Her attachment to the players perhaps isn't the best for her mentality and running the team, but it sure as hell makes the team feel much more like a family. She does a ton of little things for her players, like making them all food at foreign tournies to make sure they don't get sick from strange food, and making sure they feel comfortable. The whole team seems much more like a family than some of the other teams, which is saying something, as most of the Korean teams seem to be very tightly-knit.
And I can see why she is upset, I would be pretty disappointed if I had been lied to as well. It isn't like leaving SlayerS is a poisonous situation, as she pointed out. Others have done it before. But to lie about your intentions is just rude and should be frowned upon. Should the community be focusing on it? Probably not, but I can see why Jessica would be mad about it. I would be, if I was in her situation.
On March 08 2012 11:25 lichter wrote: You are correct that Jessica is being very dramatic about the whole issue and should not have said so much on twitter for everyone to see. Her feelings are understandable but that does not mean that they should be expressed openly for everyone to read. She has fault in this, obviously.
However you are not giving Dragon his due fault in this issue. Your two scenarios are biased twists on the actual situation, which has been more or less determined for a while now.
Dragon tweeted that he had decided to leave SlayerS without actually informing the team beforehand. When asked about his reasons, he stated that it was because he wanted to focus on work and only play Sc2 as a hobby. For those claiming he was not actively searching for a team, Dragon tweeted one month later that he had been searching for a team the whole time, and those who watch him stream also attest to his frequent inquiries into foreign teams. This is not a "white lie". He was on the team, and decided to lie to get out of the team when all he had to do was tell the truth.
And about his "minor mistake", it was not minor. He cheated during a tournament (and supposedly on ladder as well). In no way is that minor and immediately forgiveable. His apology was not "graceful" in any way because he went overboard, stating he would no longer pursue a progaming career (which he obviously did not mean, so he should not have said it). He was criticized when he joined a tournament right after. His mistake was not minor. Your view on the subject is unfortunately misguided.
I do think he deserves to be given a chance to prove himself, but forgiveness should be earned. He will be redeemed when he proves that he has learned his lesson, has matured, and now understands the consequences of his actions.
You did not comprehend anything I said. I have acknowledged that Dragon make mistakes in his past; that is giving him his due fault, and I forgave him. Also, I never said he lied, I said even if he lied, it was still a white lie because his intent was to probably save their face. Do you understand the concept of saving face?
My scenarios and your scenario are conjectures, true, but there is no reason for me to believe or accept your version over mine. I have watched him stream. I know he wanted a foreign team. So what? What's the big deal? He left Slayers, then changed his mind; what the one guy posted about occam's razor, and is probably closest to the truth.
Cheating during a tournament. We agree he should be given a second chance, but how long do you plan to crucify him? He has been crucified enough, when it happened and even now, especially in his streams by haters who come and talk smack to him. And how should he redeem himself? Not handling it gracefully? What are you talking about? Look at Bill Clinton, going into the very definition of the word "is" and only later, after trials, officially making an apology. And some people just deny worse situations they're guilty of, saying there's no conclusive evidence. Dragon APOLOGIZED immediately, and true, he went overboard in the spur of the moment, saying he would not participate in future tournaments, because he felt deeply ashamed and regretful over it. He wants to play again, and you want to kill him over what he said.
Minor/not minor mistake. This is subjective. No one ever said anything about it being immediately forgivable. What, is more than a year and half too short a time span for you?
I think we have mostly different viewpoints, and we are going to continue to disagree about alot of things in anger, so I'm ending my discussion with you here.
I'm not angry at all, I just don't want people to throw out such harsh criticism on one side and downplay the fault of the other.
You didn't say he lied; I said he lied. And his lie was to save his own face, not SlayerS. I cannot imagine how you could interpret his actions as one that intended to protect SlayerS. It doesn't matter if it was a white lie, a blue lie, or a flat out lie. He was on the team and the team trusted him. The least he could do was inform them properly, and to tell them the real reason. Getting out of contracts/agreements (verbal or written) with lies is a reprehensible act no matter how you look at it.
Evidence already shows that he did not change his mind (or at least, it took him less than a day to). He posted on twitter a month after leaving that he had already spent that month searching for a new team. If he wanted a new team, he should have left SlayerS properly. Then there would not be any problem.
I'm not crucifying him; in fact I am open to forgive him. He's done little to help or harm his reputation since the incident, and that's why I have not judged him. You'll see that I have never called him any name, insulted him, or said anything about never forgiving him.
His apology was not, in any way, graceful, as a poster above me explains.
If people here can forgive Dragon for what he's done (cheating in a tournament and lying to SlayerS), I fail to see why everyone is so upset and overreacting to Jessica venting her frustrations (on her personal account) on twitter. Yes, it was not in the bet interest of all parties involve for her to do so, and she was mistaken. Just as Dragon was mistaken. So why so much mudslinging from each side at each other? Seriously guys.
On March 08 2012 14:06 RicochetSEA wrote: If there's one thing you cannot fault Jessica for, it's her commitment and passion to SlayerS
Yah, nothing screams passion like publicly berating a former player. Jessica is a drama queen and examples like these should not be put in a positive light. Her conduct is wrong not matter if there is truth to what she's saying.
On March 07 2012 20:49 -orb- wrote: Jessica should take some courses on PR
Her business sense is amazing but holy shit does she handle these situations poorly
d'ohohoho
edit: btw i fully support jessica on this, dragon shouldn't have lied.
Whether or not Dragon lied and how bad a thing that is to do is not necessarily relevant. You do not criticize former members of your team like this in a public domain. It only serves to make you (and possibly the target) look bad, you gain nothing. This should have been handled privately if it should have been handled at all.
If you really feel a public statement is in order, then make an official well thought out press release. Do not go post emotional outbursts about it on twitter.
People keep saying Korean culture is different, but these days that seems a catch-all excuse for any problem in the Korean scene. Often the people bringing it up have no extensive experience with Korean business practices. Even if it is traditionally handled like this in Korea (which I doubt, no other team have these ridiculous twitter posts all the time), then a team wishing to operate within an international industry needs to be considerate of other cultures. All successful global enterprises have learned to leave behind cultural idiosyncrasies that make them look retarded to a large part of their market.
SlayerS is only hurting themselves, and even if they are somehow entitled to this response by Korean culture, it is still in their best interest to not act like this.
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
I thought everyone was aware that Dragon was looking for a team right after leaving Slayers? Am I wrong? He even tweeted about looking for a new team a while back.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Jessica is incredibly out of her mind. Why wouldn't he join a foreign team where he could actually get paid for it? Obviously she didn't appreciate him enough to give him some incentive to stick around. What's he supposed to do? Work at a crappy shipyard and then be expected to practice a few hours to keep up with the rest of the team?
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
WOW...
Just WOW.
Now, I definitely can't stand her. She is completly crazy. It's really hard to stay a SlayerS fan with all of this bullcrap. At least, Boxer and MMA are still making up for it... for now.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
O.O This is Jessica still calling out Dragon for leaving?
Apparently someone posted a Twitter comment on Jessica's Twitter (with curse words) inciting this, but how Jessica lost her cool this badly and explicitly calls Dragon a bad player ("if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills") is pretty embarrassing for SlayerS.
The lack of professionalism is rather appalling, but I'm glad she's at least passionate. Well actually, I was glad she was passionate the first time she talked smack about Dragon. Now I'm just shaking my head and hoping that she'll stop, or that Boxer/ someone else will kindly let her know that this isn't helpful for their image. I'm pretty sure that concerned fans could keep her making extreme comments... so who knows what trolls could do to her o.o
I'm a SlayerS fan for reasons other than Jessica (Boxer, their work ethic, their family image, MMA/ Ryung/ the other players, etc.), so this won't stop me from liking SlayerS... but I definitely feel that this is damaging for them. Dragon's moving on. It may or may not have been shady. Okay then. But Jessica needs to let this go.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Just read this as well. Thanks for the translations. I love Slayers as a whole, but this is taking it too far. I know she's upset, but her emotions are overriding any rationale that she has in such a situation.
Guys, I know it's a common practice out here in America to not express yourself publicly and just talk behind each other's back while sucking up and being fake infront of each other to gain benefits for yourself, but you guys gotta realize, there are countries out there that do things differently...
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
She's been like this since forever, and Slayers is still one of the fan favourite team, even winning the favourite team of the year at GSL for 2011. So keep bashing at them, but you vocal minorities are pretty irrelevant when it comes to the bigger picture, especially if you consider the korean community.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
wow this is so unprofessional and childish... this kind of stuff isnt only hurting jessica's reputation but definately also the whole team slayers
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Just read this as well. Thanks for the translations. I love Slayers as a whole, but this is taking it too far. I know she's upset, but her emotions are overriding any rationale that she has in such a situation.
Please read the context before judging. The person who she was responding to was trolling her, but she didn't know because her english is poor.
The guy writes: "you stupid. Millenium = money, Slayers = no money. Jealous? Stop crying, bitch. DRAGON #1" His next tweet was, "You are so fucking annoying. Every day, you cry like a baby. FUCK YOU. Dragon needs a job. Not everything is about you."
I would be angry too, but I have a feeling he was just trying to get a reaction out of her.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
Remove Jessica? That's like Liquid firing Nazgul. Self-destructive to the team and won't happen.
Jessica the drama queen strikes one more time. I mean, she might be right about everything she is saying but does she really have to do it in such an annoying manner?
If you don't like what she's doing, you can always unfollow her on twitter. Which is what I did. I ain't gonna bother with anything Jessica related now.
[QUOTE]On March 08 2012 23:44 yellowmoe wrote: [QUOTE]On March 08 2012 23:31 Reaper9 wrote: [QUOTE]On March 08 2012 18:03 yoojaein0131 wrote: [QUOTE]On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.[/QUOTE]
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;/QUOTE]
Just read this as well. Thanks for the translations. I love Slayers as a whole, but this is taking it too far. I know she's upset, but her emotions are overriding any rationale that she has in such a situation. [/QUOTE]
Please read the context before judging. The person who she was responding to was trolling her, but she didn't know because her english is poor.
The guy writes: "you stupid. Millenium = money, Slayers = no money. Jealous? Stop crying, bitch. DRAGON #1" His next tweet was, "You are so fucking annoying. Every day, you cry like a baby. FUCK YOU. Dragon needs a job. Not everything is about you."
I would be angry too, but I have a feeling he was just trying to get a reaction out of her.
The problem is exactly the fact he is getting a reaction out of her. She still should not respond in such a way. She does admit she can talk at "their level too" but that just means that got exactly what they wanted- her yelling in frustration. Keeping her cool would silence the nay-sayers, about her acting unprofessional.
On March 07 2012 21:24 Vista wrote: It honestly upsets me a bit that people think that Jessica's reaction is unreasonable. Maybe it really is a cultural thing as mentioned earlier, as I am Korean
Consider these two possibilities:
1) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers for another team. He decides to lie about why, and tells them he is leaving to focus on work. A few months later, dragon joins another team.
2) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers to focus on work. He tells them this is why is leaving. A few months later, he decides that he misses being on a team and gives himself a month to find a new one, otherwise he sticks with focusing on work. He gets an offer, and joins a new team.
To anyone other than dragon, these two scenarios will look exactly the same. There is no possible way to know which one is true. The only person who knows which is true is dragon.
Now you want to claim cultural difference? Here's the difference as I see it.
1) You don't care about understanding the difference between when you know something, and when you are just deciding to believe something. You then use your imagined belief, which happens to be the most insulting option, and begin insulting someone based on your chosen belief.
2) You understand and value the difference between when you know something and when you don't. So when you don't, you keep your mouth shut and don't insult people based on your imagination about what is and is not the truth.
Is that the cultural difference of which you speak? Because in my opinion, option 1) above demonstrates a childish, ignorant, insulting culture that I could never have any respect for.
Option 2) above is how normal, intelligent, rational people behave, and demonstrates a culture that has value.
On March 08 2012 23:39 Fubi wrote: Guys, I know it's a common practice out here in America to not express yourself publicly and just talk behind each other's back while sucking up and being fake infront of each other to gain benefits for yourself, but you guys gotta realize, there are countries out there that do things differently...
Talking behind the back and backstabing is very used in Europe and USA...
Its all fun and games until someone attacks Dragon , then all hell breaks lose , and we cannot even see KSL now ! thanks Dragon
On March 07 2012 21:24 Vista wrote: It honestly upsets me a bit that people think that Jessica's reaction is unreasonable. Maybe it really is a cultural thing as mentioned earlier, as I am Korean
Consider these two possibilities:
1) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers for another team. He decides to lie about why, and tells them he is leaving to focus on work. A few months later, dragon joins another team.
2) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers to focus on work. He tells them this is why is leaving. A few months later, he decides that he misses being on a team and gives himself a month to find a new one, otherwise he sticks with focusing on work. He gets an offer, and joins a new team.
To anyone other than dragon, these two scenarios will look exactly the same. There is no possible way to know which one is true. The only person who knows which is true is dragon.
Now you want to claim cultural difference? Here's the difference as I see it.
1) You don't care about understanding the difference between when you know something, and when you are just deciding to believe something. You then use your imagined belief, which happens to be the most insulting option, and begin insulting someone based on your chosen belief.
2) You understand and value the difference between when you know something and when you don't. So when you don't, you keep your mouth shut and don't insult people based on your imagination about what is and is not the truth.
Is that the cultural difference of which you speak? Because in my opinion, option 1) above demonstrates a childish, ignorant, insulting culture that I could never have any respect for.
Option 2) above is how normal, intelligent, rational people behave, and demonstrates a culture that has value.
Yes the cultural difference is that if 2) is true, he would of went back to Slayers and they would of gladly accepted him, because from the Korean cultural point of view, they are a family, so to Jessica, it was either
1) He lied 2) He changed his mind about studying, but then decided to join a team that benefits himself more than being with his family
So either way it's bad from her point of view, which is understandable from a Korean cultural context
On March 07 2012 21:24 Vista wrote: It honestly upsets me a bit that people think that Jessica's reaction is unreasonable. Maybe it really is a cultural thing as mentioned earlier, as I am Korean
Consider these two possibilities:
1) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers for another team. He decides to lie about why, and tells them he is leaving to focus on work. A few months later, dragon joins another team.
2) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers to focus on work. He tells them this is why is leaving. A few months later, he decides that he misses being on a team and gives himself a month to find a new one, otherwise he sticks with focusing on work. He gets an offer, and joins a new team.
To anyone other than dragon, these two scenarios will look exactly the same. There is no possible way to know which one is true. The only person who knows which is true is dragon.
Now you want to claim cultural difference? Here's the difference as I see it.
1) You don't care about understanding the difference between when you know something, and when you are just deciding to believe something. You then use your imagined belief, which happens to be the most insulting option, and begin insulting someone based on your chosen belief.
2) You understand and value the difference between when you know something and when you don't. So when you don't, you keep your mouth shut and don't insult people based on your imagination about what is and is not the truth.
Is that the cultural difference of which you speak? Because in my opinion, option 1) above demonstrates a childish, ignorant, insulting culture that I could never have any respect for.
Option 2) above is how normal, intelligent, rational people behave, and demonstrates a culture that has value.
Dont call Koreans childish just because everyone who is on TV is screaming , making sad/happy panda faces or dancing
On March 07 2012 21:24 Vista wrote: It honestly upsets me a bit that people think that Jessica's reaction is unreasonable. Maybe it really is a cultural thing as mentioned earlier, as I am Korean
Consider these two possibilities:
1) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers for another team. He decides to lie about why, and tells them he is leaving to focus on work. A few months later, dragon joins another team.
2) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers to focus on work. He tells them this is why is leaving. A few months later, he decides that he misses being on a team and gives himself a month to find a new one, otherwise he sticks with focusing on work. He gets an offer, and joins a new team.
To anyone other than dragon, these two scenarios will look exactly the same. There is no possible way to know which one is true. The only person who knows which is true is dragon.
Now you want to claim cultural difference? Here's the difference as I see it.
1) You don't care about understanding the difference between when you know something, and when you are just deciding to believe something. You then use your imagined belief, which happens to be the most insulting option, and begin insulting someone based on your chosen belief.
2) You understand and value the difference between when you know something and when you don't. So when you don't, you keep your mouth shut and don't insult people based on your imagination about what is and is not the truth.
Is that the cultural difference of which you speak? Because in my opinion, option 1) above demonstrates a childish, ignorant, insulting culture that I could never have any respect for.
Option 2) above is how normal, intelligent, rational people behave, and demonstrates a culture that has value.
Yes the cultural difference is that if 2) is true, he would of went back to Slayers and they would of gladly accepted him, because from the Korean cultural point of view, they are a family, so to Jessica, it was either
1) He lied 2) He changed his mind about studying, but then decided to join a team that benefits himself more than being with his family
So either way it's bad from her point of view, which is understandable from a Korean cultural context
Acting like his only option, if he changed his mind and wanted to get back on a team, was to rejoin slayers is just plain silly. It ignores one important point. He didn't say he was giving a month to see if he could find a team. He said he was giving a month to see if he could find a foreign team. slayers was not an option. He wanted something different. To ignore that, as Jessica is doing, is extremely disrespectful and outrageously selfish.
It's dragon's life, dragon's choice, dragon's desires that count. For her to ignore that is ridiculous.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
She's been like this since forever, and Slayers is still one of the fan favourite team, even winning the favourite team of the year at GSL for 2011. So keep bashing at them, but you vocal minorities are pretty irrelevant when it comes to the bigger picture, especially if you consider the korean community.
I hate to say this, but... just wait. The more she does this, the sicker people will get of her immaturity. In particular, do you think that anyone will want to do business with SlayerS, knowing that Jessica will start Twittering about it? Each individual action might not lose very much support, but the longer this goes on the worse it will become.
On March 08 2012 23:16 Acritter wrote: Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
Remove Jessica? That's like Liquid firing Nazgul. Self-destructive to the team and won't happen.
If Nazgul were saying things like "HuK, why are you betraying your family?", then I would hope Liquid would fire him, and I would respect them all the more for the decision. To the contrary, Nazgul has been nothing but professional, and thus should not be fired. You're comparing apples and oranges here.
On March 07 2012 21:24 Vista wrote: It honestly upsets me a bit that people think that Jessica's reaction is unreasonable. Maybe it really is a cultural thing as mentioned earlier, as I am Korean
Consider these two possibilities:
1) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers for another team. He decides to lie about why, and tells them he is leaving to focus on work. A few months later, dragon joins another team.
2) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers to focus on work. He tells them this is why is leaving. A few months later, he decides that he misses being on a team and gives himself a month to find a new one, otherwise he sticks with focusing on work. He gets an offer, and joins a new team.
To anyone other than dragon, these two scenarios will look exactly the same. There is no possible way to know which one is true. The only person who knows which is true is dragon.
Now you want to claim cultural difference? Here's the difference as I see it.
1) You don't care about understanding the difference between when you know something, and when you are just deciding to believe something. You then use your imagined belief, which happens to be the most insulting option, and begin insulting someone based on your chosen belief.
2) You understand and value the difference between when you know something and when you don't. So when you don't, you keep your mouth shut and don't insult people based on your imagination about what is and is not the truth.
Is that the cultural difference of which you speak? Because in my opinion, option 1) above demonstrates a childish, ignorant, insulting culture that I could never have any respect for.
Option 2) above is how normal, intelligent, rational people behave, and demonstrates a culture that has value.
Yes the cultural difference is that if 2) is true, he would of went back to Slayers and they would of gladly accepted him, because from the Korean cultural point of view, they are a family, so to Jessica, it was either
1) He lied 2) He changed his mind about studying, but then decided to join a team that benefits himself more than being with his family
So either way it's bad from her point of view, which is understandable from a Korean cultural context
Acting like his only option, if he changed his mind and wanted to get back on a team, was to rejoin slayers is just plain silly. It ignores one important point. He didn't say he was giving a month to see if he could find a team. He said he was giving a month to see if he could find a foreign team. slayers was not an option. He wanted something different. To ignore that, as Jessica is doing, is extremely disrespectful and outrageously selfish.
It's dragon's life, dragon's choice, dragon's desires that count. For her to ignore that is ridiculous.
You're basing your view on a western cultural context: a very heavy individualistic based culture.
Also, Jessica was fine with his team members going to foreign teams, she just wanted them to be honest with her like Golden and Sleep(?). She is just upset that he didn't say a word to them, hence not giving a shit about their "family", which in a collectivist culture such as Korea, is very important.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
She's been like this since forever, and Slayers is still one of the fan favourite team, even winning the favourite team of the year at GSL for 2011. So keep bashing at them, but you vocal minorities are pretty irrelevant when it comes to the bigger picture, especially if you consider the korean community.
I hate to say this, but... just wait. The more she does this, the sicker people will get of her immaturity. In particular, do you think that anyone will want to do business with SlayerS, knowing that Jessica will start Twittering about it? Each individual action might not lose very much support, but the longer this goes on the worse it will become.
You fail to remember that for every one of these "drama" event that she does (like what, maybe once every other month?), the Slayer's team as a whole is making more fans as well. I mean, it might SEEMS like a lot of people are hating on them just based on this post, but that's why it's called vocal minority: people that hate are 10times more likely to post. I mean even if you add up everyone that claims "I won't support slayers anymore cuz of this" in this thread, it's like less than 50-100; I'm pretty sure if a Slayer's player wins (or even get into top 4) of any major tournament will win them 100 times more fan than this lol.
On March 07 2012 21:24 Vista wrote: It honestly upsets me a bit that people think that Jessica's reaction is unreasonable. Maybe it really is a cultural thing as mentioned earlier, as I am Korean
Consider these two possibilities:
1) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers for another team. He decides to lie about why, and tells them he is leaving to focus on work. A few months later, dragon joins another team.
2) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers to focus on work. He tells them this is why is leaving. A few months later, he decides that he misses being on a team and gives himself a month to find a new one, otherwise he sticks with focusing on work. He gets an offer, and joins a new team.
To anyone other than dragon, these two scenarios will look exactly the same. There is no possible way to know which one is true. The only person who knows which is true is dragon.
Now you want to claim cultural difference? Here's the difference as I see it.
1) You don't care about understanding the difference between when you know something, and when you are just deciding to believe something. You then use your imagined belief, which happens to be the most insulting option, and begin insulting someone based on your chosen belief.
2) You understand and value the difference between when you know something and when you don't. So when you don't, you keep your mouth shut and don't insult people based on your imagination about what is and is not the truth.
Is that the cultural difference of which you speak? Because in my opinion, option 1) above demonstrates a childish, ignorant, insulting culture that I could never have any respect for.
Option 2) above is how normal, intelligent, rational people behave, and demonstrates a culture that has value.
Yes the cultural difference is that if 2) is true, he would of went back to Slayers and they would of gladly accepted him, because from the Korean cultural point of view, they are a family, so to Jessica, it was either
1) He lied 2) He changed his mind about studying, but then decided to join a team that benefits himself more than being with his family
So either way it's bad from her point of view, which is understandable from a Korean cultural context
Acting like his only option, if he changed his mind and wanted to get back on a team, was to rejoin slayers is just plain silly. It ignores one important point. He didn't say he was giving a month to see if he could find a team. He said he was giving a month to see if he could find a foreign team. slayers was not an option. He wanted something different. To ignore that, as Jessica is doing, is extremely disrespectful and outrageously selfish.
It's dragon's life, dragon's choice, dragon's desires that count. For her to ignore that is ridiculous.
You're basing your view on a western cultural context: a very heavy individualistic based culture.
Also, Jessica was fine with his team members going to foreign teams, she just wanted them to be honest with her like Golden and Sleep(?). She is just upset that he didn't say a word to them, hence not giving a shit about their "family", which in a collectivist culture such as Korea, is very important.
in a familty family members give u money i think ?? what would he say ? : look jessica im leaving one of the most powerful teams in korea becose you are not paying the players . how would that be ?
On March 07 2012 21:24 Vista wrote: It honestly upsets me a bit that people think that Jessica's reaction is unreasonable. Maybe it really is a cultural thing as mentioned earlier, as I am Korean
Consider these two possibilities:
1) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers for another team. He decides to lie about why, and tells them he is leaving to focus on work. A few months later, dragon joins another team.
2) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers to focus on work. He tells them this is why is leaving. A few months later, he decides that he misses being on a team and gives himself a month to find a new one, otherwise he sticks with focusing on work. He gets an offer, and joins a new team.
To anyone other than dragon, these two scenarios will look exactly the same. There is no possible way to know which one is true. The only person who knows which is true is dragon.
Now you want to claim cultural difference? Here's the difference as I see it.
1) You don't care about understanding the difference between when you know something, and when you are just deciding to believe something. You then use your imagined belief, which happens to be the most insulting option, and begin insulting someone based on your chosen belief.
2) You understand and value the difference between when you know something and when you don't. So when you don't, you keep your mouth shut and don't insult people based on your imagination about what is and is not the truth.
Is that the cultural difference of which you speak? Because in my opinion, option 1) above demonstrates a childish, ignorant, insulting culture that I could never have any respect for.
Option 2) above is how normal, intelligent, rational people behave, and demonstrates a culture that has value.
Yes the cultural difference is that if 2) is true, he would of went back to Slayers and they would of gladly accepted him, because from the Korean cultural point of view, they are a family, so to Jessica, it was either
1) He lied 2) He changed his mind about studying, but then decided to join a team that benefits himself more than being with his family
So either way it's bad from her point of view, which is understandable from a Korean cultural context
Acting like his only option, if he changed his mind and wanted to get back on a team, was to rejoin slayers is just plain silly. It ignores one important point. He didn't say he was giving a month to see if he could find a team. He said he was giving a month to see if he could find a foreign team. slayers was not an option. He wanted something different. To ignore that, as Jessica is doing, is extremely disrespectful and outrageously selfish.
It's dragon's life, dragon's choice, dragon's desires that count. For her to ignore that is ridiculous.
You're basing your view on a western cultural context: a very heavy individualistic based culture.
Also, Jessica was fine with his team members going to foreign teams, she just wanted them to be honest with her like Golden and Sleep(?). She is just upset that he didn't say a word to them, hence not giving a shit about their "family", which in a collectivist culture such as Korea, is very important.
in a familty family members give u money i think ?? what would he say ? : look jessica im leaving one of the most powerful teams in korea becose you are not paying the players . how would that be ?
That would be fine if he actually went upfront with her and said that; but he didnt and that's the whole point she was referring to.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
Remove Jessica? That's like Liquid firing Nazgul. Self-destructive to the team and won't happen.
For what it's worth...
1. I've never heard any bad press about Nazgul (from articles or other teams/ management) 2. I've never heard Nazgul make any unprofessional comments, especially team-related ones 3. I've specifically heard mountains of compliments regarding how well he takes care of his team
So I think removing Jessica would make far more sense than removing Nazgul, although I'm not exactly calling for her necessary removal (if she indeed provides essential qualities to SlayerS). She just needs to be careful with how she presents herself and SlayerS through her Twitter and other online forums/ media avenues.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
She's been like this since forever, and Slayers is still one of the fan favourite team, even winning the favourite team of the year at GSL for 2011. So keep bashing at them, but you vocal minorities are pretty irrelevant when it comes to the bigger picture, especially if you consider the korean community.
I hate to say this, but... just wait. The more she does this, the sicker people will get of her immaturity. In particular, do you think that anyone will want to do business with SlayerS, knowing that Jessica will start Twittering about it? Each individual action might not lose very much support, but the longer this goes on the worse it will become.
You fail to remember that for every one of these "drama" event that she does (like what, maybe once every other month?), the Slayer's team as a whole is making more fans as well. I mean, it might SEEMS like a lot of people are hating on them just based on this post, but that's why it's called vocal minority: people that hate are 10times more likely to post. I mean even if you add up everyone that claims "I won't support slayers anymore cuz of this" in this thread, it's like less than 50-100; I'm pretty sure if a Slayer's player wins (or even get into top 4) of any major tournament will win them 100 times more fan than this lol.
I have yet to see you address the issue of sponsorship. Who would want their business dealings with SlayerS to be relayed publically? Currently, the only things SlayerS has going for it are Boxer (admittedly huge) and MMA (tied to Boxer). That's all they really have in terms of skill and popularity. Jessica is dragging that down. Imagine, for a moment, that something happens between Jessica and MMA. The team will lose one of its greatest assets instantly. Who would keep sponsoring a team like that?
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
Remove Jessica? That's like Liquid firing Nazgul. Self-destructive to the team and won't happen.
For what it's worth...
1. I've never heard any bad press about Nazgul (from articles or other teams/ management) 2. I've never heard Nazgul make any unprofessional comments, especially team-related ones 3. I've specifically heard mountains of compliments regarding how well he takes care of his team
So I think removing Jessica would make far more sense than removing Nazgul, although I'm not exactly calling for her necessary removal (if she indeed provides essential qualities to SlayerS). She just needs to be careful with how she presents herself and SlayerS through her Twitter and other online forums/ media avenues.
But this is because Nazgul/TL is a western team, hence their actions and decisions would seem to make 100 times more sense because they have the same values as us. Slayers is different, and as some people have already pointed out, the Korean community don't see what the big deal with this is
Or maybe dragon was confronted by jessica about his rampant stream cheating, and he told her he was quiting anyways. She's just to classy to call him out after the fact.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
She's been like this since forever, and Slayers is still one of the fan favourite team, even winning the favourite team of the year at GSL for 2011. So keep bashing at them, but you vocal minorities are pretty irrelevant when it comes to the bigger picture, especially if you consider the korean community.
I hate to say this, but... just wait. The more she does this, the sicker people will get of her immaturity. In particular, do you think that anyone will want to do business with SlayerS, knowing that Jessica will start Twittering about it? Each individual action might not lose very much support, but the longer this goes on the worse it will become.
You fail to remember that for every one of these "drama" event that she does (like what, maybe once every other month?), the Slayer's team as a whole is making more fans as well. I mean, it might SEEMS like a lot of people are hating on them just based on this post, but that's why it's called vocal minority: people that hate are 10times more likely to post. I mean even if you add up everyone that claims "I won't support slayers anymore cuz of this" in this thread, it's like less than 50-100; I'm pretty sure if a Slayer's player wins (or even get into top 4) of any major tournament will win them 100 times more fan than this lol.
I have yet to see you address the issue of sponsorship. Who would want their business dealings with SlayerS to be relayed publically? Currently, the only things SlayerS has going for it are Boxer (admittedly huge) and MMA (tied to Boxer). That's all they really have in terms of skill and popularity. Jessica is dragging that down. Imagine, for a moment, that something happens between Jessica and MMA. The team will lose one of its greatest assets instantly. Who would keep sponsoring a team like that?
I don't get what the difference is for sponsors and fans. It's the same concept, for every Slayers players that wins a major tournament (or even just placing high), they would have much higher chance of gaining a sponsors than chance for something like this that will lose them one. Also, sponsors are tied to fan popularity, so the more fans they get, the more likely they will get sponsors; hence refer to my last post about fans.
Also, your "Slayers only has Boxers and MMA" comment makes no sense, I mean if you put it that way, every team only has 1-2 people going for them in terms of popularity/skills: MVP "only" has DRG and Genius, IM only has MVP and Nestea, Prime only has MKP, etc etc, so I don't see your point?
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
Remove Jessica? That's like Liquid firing Nazgul. Self-destructive to the team and won't happen.
For what it's worth...
1. I've never heard any bad press about Nazgul (from articles or other teams/ management) 2. I've never heard Nazgul make any unprofessional comments, especially team-related ones 3. I've specifically heard mountains of compliments regarding how well he takes care of his team
So I think removing Jessica would make far more sense than removing Nazgul, although I'm not exactly calling for her necessary removal (if she indeed provides essential qualities to SlayerS). She just needs to be careful with how she presents herself and SlayerS through her Twitter and other online forums/ media avenues.
But this is because Nazgul/TL is a western team, hence their actions and decisions would seem to make 100 times more sense because they have the same values as us. Slayers is different, and as some people have already pointed out, the Korean community don't see what the big deal with this is
Good point. Does the Korean community find Dragon to be very much at fault? Otherwise, I'm not sure why the repeated jabs at Dragon by Jessica would be found acceptable as opposed to "Okay we get it; it's time to let it go and move on".
I honestly dont see a problem with her reaction. I totally agree with what the majority of the people here are saying about professionalism. If Slayers was a company, then you guys are probably right.
But to many korean teams, the team is like a family. Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
Here is where the cultural part comes in, the korea or eastern culture would look at the team more as a family, where people share blood sweat and tears and progress together. But what most of you in this thread see as a team is a corporation and business. Hiring the players to win tournaments for your business and increasing publicity and all that.
Theres no right or wrong to either one, but when both cultures meet on a similar platform such as twitter, you get this shitfest.
On March 09 2012 00:23 LeSioN wrote: Or maybe dragon was confronted by jessica about his rampant stream cheating, and he told her he was quiting anyways. She's just to classy to call him out after the fact.
Just make shit up, believe it to be true and start insulting. That's your plan?
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"?
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
Remove Jessica? That's like Liquid firing Nazgul. Self-destructive to the team and won't happen.
For what it's worth...
1. I've never heard any bad press about Nazgul (from articles or other teams/ management) 2. I've never heard Nazgul make any unprofessional comments, especially team-related ones 3. I've specifically heard mountains of compliments regarding how well he takes care of his team
So I think removing Jessica would make far more sense than removing Nazgul, although I'm not exactly calling for her necessary removal (if she indeed provides essential qualities to SlayerS). She just needs to be careful with how she presents herself and SlayerS through her Twitter and other online forums/ media avenues.
But this is because Nazgul/TL is a western team, hence their actions and decisions would seem to make 100 times more sense because they have the same values as us. Slayers is different, and as some people have already pointed out, the Korean community don't see what the big deal with this is
Good point. Does the Korean community find Dragon to be very much at fault? Otherwise, I'm not sure why the repeated jabs at Dragon by Jessica would be found acceptable as opposed to "Okay we get it; it's time to let it go and move on".
That's not even true. Most of Koreans were not seeing the big deal... before she started to tell everyone to fuck off and starting to pretty much insult trolls or peoples randomly on twitter. Now that she is going outrage... (the one that translated, in this post, is Korean... and he told us that he tought that she was out of her mind) the foreigner opinion is even worst... and the Korean one is tainted a bit, too.
I reading this thread and I am realizing why many foreigners in my university, koreans in particular, generally don't hang out with the natives (even though hanging out with the natives would improve their English). Besides communication, foreigners and the natives have different cultures which clash with one another and so it is difficult to get ones point across.
I can get an example, where one of my friends had group project with a native but his group member didn't work hard enough for my friend's expectation and so there was a lot of fighting. This is only through my experience though, so it may be different with other areas, but I am seeing lots of culture differences it in this forum.
Jessica should just grow up. Dragon left months ago, clean and simple. It's not even close to being like a Puma thing where one can see why someone would be ticked off.
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"?
So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part.
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
Thats why people communicate. Depending on what Dragon said to Jessica when he left Slayers, the scale can tip to either side to further reinforce their point of view.
If he said he would NEVER play sc2 professionally again and focus on his job as he left, a nice gesture maybe would be to tell jessica that he changed his mind and will be looking for a foreign team. Unneeded, but it would have been a nice and mature gesture to at least inform Jessica since the SC2 professional community is pretty small and averted this PR shitfest.
But if he said he would play sc2 as a hobby and keep his options open regarding foreign teams as he is unsure of what he wanted, i dont think Jessica would be in such an outrage now (as evidenced by her quoting golden and sleep).
Hence my comment that we cant judge as outsiders. We can only speculate. But nothing wrong to have opinions. I have mine and you have yours, and its enlightening to see your PoV.
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"?
So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part.
By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz"
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"?
So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part.
By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz"
*Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart*
So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world?
Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling?
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"?
So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part.
By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz"
*Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart*
So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world?
Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling?
Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family.
So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better.
You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie.
edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ?
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"?
So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part.
By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz"
*Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart*
So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world?
Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling?
Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family.
So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better.
You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie.
edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ?
But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing.
No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see.
It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway.
And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans.
Finally, it's not a lie, no matter how you twist the fact. The only this could be a lie, is if he told Jessica that he would never join another team, ever. And there is no poof of that, she didn't told that herself either. He told her that he wanted to play SC2 has a hobby... and he can totaly do that in Millenium. Millenium is not asking their players to train 10 hours a day. Look at stephano, for example... he told the world many time that SC2 was still just an hobby.
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"?
So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part.
By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz"
*Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart*
So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world?
Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling?
Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family.
So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better.
You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie.
edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ?
But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing.
No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see.
It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway.
And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans.
It isn't a business to them, the team is as important as a family for them, I mean they even live together 24/7 for godsake. You can be all technical all you want with terminology, but in reality, they treat their team and hold the importance just as much as a family. Yes it doesn't make sense to us, that's because we have different values.
And for saying Dragon did nothing illegal? lmao guess what, Jessica did nothing illegal as well, so i don't see your point, we're not arguing legality here. Hell, she isn't even "officially" announcing this even, it's her personal twitter, something that is meant for one to post w/e the hell is on their mind. If she wanted to make it official, she would of made some post on TL forums or PlayXP.
And lastly, she didnt "start insulting people randomly", scroll about 2-3 pages back, someone posted the context of that replay, some idiot was basically swearing and insulting her directly first.
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"?
So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part.
By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz"
*Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart*
So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world?
Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling?
Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family.
So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better.
You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie.
edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ?
But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing.
No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see.
It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway.
And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans.
It isn't a business to them, the team is as important as a family for them, I mean they even live together 24/7 for godsake. You can be all technical all you want with terminology, but in reality, they treat their team and hold the importance just as much as a family. Yes it doesn't make sense to us, that's because we have different values.
And for saying Dragon did nothing illegal? lmao guess what, Jessica did nothing illegal as well, so i don't see your point, we're not arguing legality here. Hell, she isn't even "officially" announcing this even, it's her personal twitter, something that is meant for one to post w/e the hell is on their mind. If she wanted to make it official, she would of made some post on TL forums or PlayXP.
And lastly, she didnt "start insulting people randomly", scroll about 2-3 pages back, someone posted the context of that replay, some idiot was basically swearing and insulting her directly first.
Dragon lived there for only a short while and hadn't lived there for some time before he left.
This whole ordeal seems blown way over proportion. Dragon made a decision, circumstances made him change his mind. These things happen, even though I completely understand where Jessica is coming from.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"?
So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part.
By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz"
*Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart*
So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world?
Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling?
Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family.
So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better.
You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie.
edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ?
But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing.
No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see.
It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway.
And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans.
It isn't a business to them, the team is as important as a family for them, I mean they even live together 24/7 for godsake. You can be all technical all you want with terminology, but in reality, they treat their team and hold the importance just as much as a family. Yes it doesn't make sense to us, that's because we have different values.
And for saying Dragon did nothing illegal? lmao guess what, Jessica did nothing illegal as well, so i don't see your point, we're not arguing legality here. Hell, she isn't even "officially" announcing this even, it's her personal twitter, something that is meant for one to post w/e the hell is on their mind. If she wanted to make it official, she would of made some post on TL forums or PlayXP.
And lastly, she didnt "start insulting people randomly", scroll about 2-3 pages back, someone posted the context of that replay, some idiot was basically swearing and insulting her directly first.
Dragon lived there for only a short while and hadn't lived there for some time before he left.
On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip.....
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"?
So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part.
By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz"
*Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart*
So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world?
Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling?
Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family.
So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better.
You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie.
edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ?
But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing.
No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see.
It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway.
And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans.
Finally, it's not a lie, no matter how you twist the fact. The only this could be a lie, is if he told Jessica that he would never join another team, ever. And there is no poof of that, she didn't told that herself either. He told her that he wanted to play SC2 has a hobby... and he can totaly do that in Millenium. Millenium is not asking their players to train 10 hours a day. Look at stephano, for example... he told the world many time that SC2 was still just an hobby.
All the posts previously containing strong emotion were all in Korean and was fan translated on TL. The post in English has no real emotional rage on it. It just summed up on how she is disappointed at Dragon not telling her the true reason why he left the team.
Even though you think this is a business/corporation and Dragon just changed his mind blah blah blah. It is still a formality and custom to inform your ex-boss what you are up to even in the business world. It is like when you were working for some big company in a certain industry, and you told your manager that you would like to quit the job and have a change in career. When you changed your mind and decided to go back to the same industry in a different company, you will still contact your ex-boss for MANY reasons. 1. You keep in touch and stay in good term. It is just a nice thing to do, you never know if you will require help from them in your future. 2. Most likely when you apply for another position in another company, they will reference check you. It is nice to inform them first and make sure they won't screw you over when they reference you. 3. Even if referencing was not required. This help prevent awkwardness in future potential interactions with your old company/manager/boss. This is specially important in industry that is small in size and population. SCII is one very good example.
In general, this is a nice thing to practice and it only does good to your own career development and shows maturity in a person. If Jessica was unaware of Dragon's recruitment from Millenium until Millenium's official announcement, of course she will feel like getting slapped in the face. Professionalism is a mutual thing. When Dragon decided to deal with the matter unprofessionally and slap his ex-boss in the face, it is really not surprising for him to get a his own face slapped as well.
Why is this being painted in culture so deeply. There are player shuffles inside and outside Korea all the fucking time, it's only a big deal because Jessica makes it a big deal.
Not many other coach/manager/team has this much drama surrounding them on a regular basis. The only other one that comes close is probably the coach of TSL. This isn't a universally Korean thing otherwise there would be cries and shit-storms any time a player joined a foreign team or left their current team.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Dragon lied, but Jessica seems like such a difficult and overbearing person to talk to that I'm sure he'd have his reasons to avoid a massive guilt trip from her.
On March 07 2012 20:49 -orb- wrote: Jessica should take some courses on PR
Her business sense is amazing but holy shit does she handle these situations poorly
Are you seriously criticizing someone's public relations skills? It makes me sad to see this kind of negativity in our community.
well does she seem clever calling out players and bashing them on Twitter then? None wins on that.
1. She is by doing this giving Slayers team a bad reputation 2. and she is trying to rip a hole in Dragon to make him look untrustworthy which could damage his career.
None wins by her actions. It's stupid. This is a small thing she should take with him privately. Even tough I dont see how this is a lie or betrayal. Dragon was never going to play for Slayers, he left, he said that he would play Sc2 as a hobby, he got a new oppertunity (a fluke) and he ended up taking it. Jessica is very naive and ignorant. You dont turn down a good oppertunity.
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up.
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from.
How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous!
But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"?
So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part.
By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz"
*Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart*
So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world?
Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling?
Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family.
So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better.
You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie.
edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ?
But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing.
No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see.
It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway.
And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans.
Finally, it's not a lie, no matter how you twist the fact. The only this could be a lie, is if he told Jessica that he would never join another team, ever. And there is no poof of that, she didn't told that herself either. He told her that he wanted to play SC2 has a hobby... and he can totaly do that in Millenium. Millenium is not asking their players to train 10 hours a day. Look at stephano, for example... he told the world many time that SC2 was still just an hobby.
All the posts previously containing strong emotion were all in Korean and was fan translated on TL. The post in English has no real emotional rage on it. It just summed up on how she is disappointed at Dragon not telling her the true reason why he left the team.
Even though you think this is a business/corporation and Dragon just changed his mind blah blah blah. It is still a formality and custom to inform your ex-boss what you are up to even in the business world. It is like when you were working for some big company in a certain industry, and you told your manager that you would like to quit the job and have a change in career. When you changed your mind and decided to go back to the same industry in a different company, you will still contact your ex-boss for MANY reasons. 1. You keep in touch and stay in good term. It is just a nice thing to do, you never know if you will require help from them in your future. 2. Most likely when you apply for another position in another company, they will reference check you. It is nice to inform them first and make sure they won't screw you over when they reference you. 3. Even if referencing was not required. This help prevent awkwardness in future potential interactions with your old company/manager/boss. This is specially important in industry that is small in size and population. SCII is one very good example.
In general, this is a nice thing to practice and it only does good to your own career development and shows maturity in a person. If Jessica was unaware of Dragon's recruitment from Millenium until Millenium's official announcement, of course she will feel like getting slapped in the face. Professionalism is a mutual thing. When Dragon decided to deal with the matter unprofessionally and slap his ex-boss in the face, it is really not surprising for him to get a his own face slapped as well.
Again, feeling angry about it is normal, like I said many time...
The problem is not there. It is all about going on twitter. EVEN in your example... sure, getting in touch with your old boss would be fine... but even if you wouldn't, it doesn't give him the right to go on twitter and create drama and an uproar about it. Actually, i'm pretty sure that if he would do that, it would just be pretty bad PR for him, not for the employe.
And, again, no one, not even her, know the context of him, joining Millenium. We all know that Stephano play SC2 has an hobby and that he is not training 10 hours a day in a team house, but he is really good. If he is treated the same way by Millenium, then it would not be a lie in the first place, at all. This is exactly why Jessica can't just go on twitter and create drama each time something that she don't like happen... because if she is wrong or is shitting on a player, then it makes SlayerS in a whole look bad. She is NOT professional at all, about those issues.
If he left SlayerS with no knowledge or intent to join Millenium, or any other team, and wanted to start working again. Then Jessica is just taking this the wrong way.
If not, I can see why she is angry, most employers are sad/angry when employees leave for another company that's in the same line of work. It makes them think that all the work I put into this guy is now lost, and someone else is getting the benefits.
But I personally think Dragon should have told her that e wanted to join Mill if he knew at the time.. If he didnt know, then it's not a big deal at all.
On March 07 2012 21:24 Vista wrote: It honestly upsets me a bit that people think that Jessica's reaction is unreasonable. Maybe it really is a cultural thing as mentioned earlier, as I am Korean
Consider these two possibilities:
1) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers for another team. He decides to lie about why, and tells them he is leaving to focus on work. A few months later, dragon joins another team.
2) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers to focus on work. He tells them this is why is leaving. A few months later, he decides that he misses being on a team and gives himself a month to find a new one, otherwise he sticks with focusing on work. He gets an offer, and joins a new team.
To anyone other than dragon, these two scenarios will look exactly the same. There is no possible way to know which one is true. The only person who knows which is true is dragon.
Now you want to claim cultural difference? Here's the difference as I see it.
1) You don't care about understanding the difference between when you know something, and when you are just deciding to believe something. You then use your imagined belief, which happens to be the most insulting option, and begin insulting someone based on your chosen belief.
2) You understand and value the difference between when you know something and when you don't. So when you don't, you keep your mouth shut and don't insult people based on your imagination about what is and is not the truth.
Is that the cultural difference of which you speak? Because in my opinion, option 1) above demonstrates a childish, ignorant, insulting culture that I could never have any respect for.
Option 2) above is how normal, intelligent, rational people behave, and demonstrates a culture that has value.
If you read the entire thread, you'll see that Dragon started looking for a team almost immediately after he made that announcement of leaving SlayerS. That is not "A few months later, he decides that he misses being on a team and gives himself a month to find a new one".
On March 09 2012 03:20 KenZo- wrote: If he left SlayerS with no knowledge or intent to join Millenium, or any other team, and wanted to start working again. Then Jessica is just taking this the wrong way.
If not, I can see why she is angry, most employers are sad/angry when employees leave for another company that's in the same line of work. It makes them think that all the work I put into this guy is now lost, and someone else is getting the benefits.
But I personally think Dragon should have told her that e wanted to join Mill if he knew at the time.. If he didnt know, then it's not a big deal at all.
Apparently, the neutral standpoint is this. Dragon left SlayerS because he didn't really feel like his involvement in the team was going anywhere and he wanted to return to work, very shortly after he changes his mind(or he lied) and starts looking for a foreign team. Millenium is interested and picks him up. Jessica throws a fit about betrayal shortly after.
I don't see how your reason for, "I can see why she is angry" is because most employers get upset when an employee from one company goes to another company in the same line of work, this is eSports, this is the norm. Every 6 months to a year you are likely to see a fair few players switch teams. This isn't restricted to the foreign scene either. Even if considering this, you think a manager to should be upset at player switches I don't see how you could possibly justify Jessica's response. If that were acceptable, we'd be in the midst of a constant shit-storm between managers, coaches and teams.
Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Edit: I implore everyone, before you start making judgements about what happened, look at the chronology. Most of the theories here don't make any sense if you just look at the dates of the various statements.
Until Boxer starts doing these dumb Twitter assaults, SlayerS is ok, or at least inside the SC2 community. Its built much more around his reputation than anyone else's.
On March 09 2012 04:41 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Ya, I don't think people get that. They just see a girl whining.
I'll be writing a letter to slayers explaining the western view on the situation, and how we think it should be handled. Hopefully if enough people re-send it, then some action will be taken. Her actions are hurting e-sports, not helping them.
On March 09 2012 02:22 Mordiford wrote: Why is this being painted in culture so deeply. There are player shuffles inside and outside Korea all the fucking time, it's only a big deal because Jessica makes it a big deal.
Not many other coach/manager/team has this much drama surrounding them on a regular basis. The only other one that comes close is probably the coach of TSL. This isn't a universally Korean thing otherwise there would be cries and shit-storms any time a player joined a foreign team or left their current team.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Dragon lied, but Jessica seems like such a difficult and overbearing person to talk to that I'm sure he'd have his reasons to avoid a massive guilt trip from her.
What other dramas did Jessica create in which you felt she overreacted?
On March 09 2012 04:46 ranshaked wrote: I'll be writing a letter to slayers explaining the western view on the situation, and how we think it should be handled. Hopefully if enough people re-send it, then some action will be taken. Her actions are hurting e-sports, not helping them.
are you serious ? hurting e-sports and all ?
Internet makes everyone so angry , people don´t know how to relax these days..
On March 09 2012 04:41 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Edit: I implore everyone, before you start making judgements about what happened, look at the chronology. Most of the theories here don't make any sense if you just look at the dates of the various statements.
I already touched on that in an earlier post. Quite simply, I could understand if Dragon left to return to work, and then changed his mind very shortly afterwards. Also, I could understand why he would lie based on what I've seen of Jessica's behavior in the past, she's been involved in her fair share of drama and always comes off in the same overbearing and aggressive manner. If he wanted to leave SlayerS(a team he was getting little to nothing from aside from the name) and didn't want to have to go through Jessica(who honestly seems to be sort of a nightmare to me), I can understand why he would lie. I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable.
It's also important to note that Golden(I'm not sure about Sleep) was living in the SlayerS house for extended periods of time while Dragon was not. He seemed to be getting very little from SlayerS and they displayed no intention of investing more than they had in him. I don't see why Jessica is throwing such a colossal fit over a player that the team clearly never really considered an asset in the first place, even if he did lie.
Dragon would also have to be a moron to think that leaving the team, returning to work and then a week later returning to looking for a team would not be conspicuous. It is quite possible that in this time frame he realized that he could possibly get from a foreign team, all that he was not getting from SlayerS.
No matter how it goes though, this isn't the first time Jessica is at the center of a boat load of drama and I doubt it will be the last. She seems to have a penchant for histrionics and it does nothing but put me off her team.
On March 07 2012 20:49 -orb- wrote: Jessica should take some courses on PR
Her business sense is amazing but holy shit does she handle these situations poorly
Pretty funny how you should comment on handling things poorly seeing you handled the criticism after being outed by the community on giving racial slurs on ladder "poorly"
Violet gave her the best advice over Twitter and Jessica should have listened to it. Violet told her that she was right to feel hurt but that she should let go of her anger. Obviously Dragon is in the wrong for lying, but Jessica ignored Violet's advice and said 'the people supporting Dragon look even more ridiculous'
Maybe they do, the problem is that Jessica also looks ridiculous for airing all this shit out over Twitter. In sports, there's this saying that certain things should be "kept in the locker room." Jessica needs to understand that it's usually best NOT TO GO PUBLIC AT ALL with the drama that affects your team. It makes the team look bad more than any individual player, because this kind of conflict should never reach the public eye. If the team were managed better, we would not have heard that there was ever a problem with Dragon leaving the team.
And by the way, it's not like this is MMA leaving. They have better Zergs on the team (CoCa, at least), and they need to recruit more anyway. In no way is losing Dragon worse than causing a public shit storm related directly to Team Slayers.
On March 09 2012 04:46 ranshaked wrote: I'll be writing a letter to slayers explaining the western view on the situation, and how we think it should be handled. Hopefully if enough people re-send it, then some action will be taken. Her actions are hurting e-sports, not helping them.
No. You are assuming that the Western view is the way to go, which begins to draw parallels with cultural imperialism. It's best just to ignore all this drama. Secondly, many people probably will not want to spam Slayers Boxer, nor should they.
i have to state that im a slayers fan and i never like dragon even when he was on slayers
i dont know how it is in korea but in north america we like to keep business and personal stuff separate. dragon was very unprofessional and deceitful if he just left without saying anything/lied about it afterwards. but as a team manager, jessica shouldnt have vented her anger on twitter. i can see where shes coming from because if i was running a team and somebody just ditched and lied about the reason id be pissed, but you have to understand alot of these kids are immature and only looking to get more cash and dont really think about the consequences of their actions (theres many examples of this in the past). jessica needs to just relax and realize running a business is not going to be smooth sailing 24/7, plus why make a big fuss about a player who hasnt even achieved much in his gaming career.
On March 09 2012 04:46 ranshaked wrote: I'll be writing a letter to slayers explaining the western view on the situation, and how we think it should be handled. Hopefully if enough people re-send it, then some action will be taken. Her actions are hurting e-sports, not helping them.
No. You are assuming that the Western view is the way to go, which begins to draw parallels with cultural imperialism. It's best just to ignore all this drama. Secondly, many people probably will not want to spam Slayers Boxer, nor should they.
It's wrong what she is doing. It's not a cultural thing, it's a childish thing. It is immaturity at its best.
On March 09 2012 05:50 Inori wrote: I'm a fan of Slayers and Boxer specifically, but oh man is jessica a drama queen. It's not just this incident, it's every incident she decides to "handle".
Talking about rising as her own, betrayal, not being able to trust people anymore, she sounds like something actually serious happened instead of just another random teen doing what teens do (being inconsistent).
After trying to remember as many as I can, I could come up with 4 "dramas"off the top of my head. Eve incident, Coca transfer incident, and more recently her tweet about the SlayerS twitter/FB pages no longer being official, and of course the one we're discussing right here.
I would agree that she could have handled the Eve incident a little better, but I can also see where she was coming from as she was trying to protect Eve. Eve was getting bashed pretty hard on the forums, and there were even images of her photoshopped onto pornographic pictures with silly insults written under. I think ideally, what she should have done is announcing on her twitter "Please stop all this nonsense about Eve, and if you go too far like some of you seem to be doing, I'll have to bring in a lawsuit into this", and not respond to any obvious trolls trying to stir things up.
The Coca thing was started by the Zenex manager and later found out to have originated from miscommunications within the Zenex management from what I remember.
Twitter/FB - Most people don't know what actually happened to trigger this and are assuming that she is overreacting over nothing. She has her reasons on why she can't reveal everything here and I hope people can understand that.
On March 09 2012 04:46 ranshaked wrote: I'll be writing a letter to slayers explaining the western view on the situation, and how we think it should be handled. Hopefully if enough people re-send it, then some action will be taken. Her actions are hurting e-sports, not helping them.
No. You are assuming that the Western view is the way to go, which begins to draw parallels with cultural imperialism. It's best just to ignore all this drama. Secondly, many people probably will not want to spam Slayers Boxer, nor should they.
It's wrong what she is doing. It's not a cultural thing, it's a childish thing. It is immaturity at its best.
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't tweet like Jessica. But I wouldn't get worked up about someone tweeting like that unless they were calling me or someone close to me out. I'm just saying that it is best to ignore all of this. Often times it is just not worth it.
Besides, these types of stories can change rapidly. Remember TSL-Fnatic? Everyone was saying how Fnatic was just another no-good player-stealing team, then rekrul makes that post, and suddenly people are calling for Coach Lee's head? I admit that it was interesting for me to watch the story develop, but it is best to not get invested into this type of stuff. Don't spam Boxer to complain about his girlfriend.
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
No one's gonna give a fuck about what jessica is doing a couple weeks later or what she continues to do. It's not going to taint SlayerS image at all. As long as SlayerS keeps winning tournaments, matches, bring AMAZING games (MMA vs DRG GSL finals) then people are going to keep loving SlayerS no matter what.
Can we let this thread die please? Jessica got overly emotional on her personal twitter, its not the end of the world. She has legitimate beef with Dragon and the way she expressed herself hurt some peoples feelings. I never really noticed all the drama threads before but there have been so many in the last week its a joke.
Anyone who stops being a fan of slayers because of a couple of tweets that are honestly not even that offensive is retarded, or is a fan of slayers for the wrong reason. BOXER MMA COCA TAEJA RYUNG GANZI BROWN PUZZLE need I go on?
On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote: Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +
뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got: What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure.
ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too."
wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;;
Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
No one's gonna give a fuck about what jessica is doing a couple weeks later or what she continues to do. It's not going to taint SlayerS image at all. As long as SlayerS keeps winning tournaments, matches, bring AMAZING games (MMA vs DRG GSL finals) then people are going to keep loving SlayerS no matter what.
Avril Lavigne is right. No point in trying to raise pitchforks at Jessica, and especially not at Boxer or the rest of Slayers. If you don't like it, just ignore it. They are just tweets for crying out loud!
On March 09 2012 04:41 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Edit: I implore everyone, before you start making judgements about what happened, look at the chronology. Most of the theories here don't make any sense if you just look at the dates of the various statements.
I already touched on that in an earlier post. Quite simply, I could understand if Dragon left to return to work, and then changed his mind very shortly afterwards. Also, I could understand why he would lie based on what I've seen of Jessica's behavior in the past, she's been involved in her fair share of drama and always comes off in the same overbearing and aggressive manner. If he wanted to leave SlayerS(a team he was getting little to nothing from aside from the name) and didn't want to have to go through Jessica(who honestly seems to be sort of a nightmare to me), I can understand why he would lie. I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable.
It's also important to note that Golden(I'm not sure about Sleep) was living in the SlayerS house for extended periods of time while Dragon was not. He seemed to be getting very little from SlayerS and they displayed no intention of investing more than they had in him. I don't see why Jessica is throwing such a colossal fit over a player that the team clearly never really considered an asset in the first place, even if he did lie.
Dragon would also have to be a moron to think that leaving the team, returning to work and then a week later returning to looking for a team would not be conspicuous. It is quite possible that in this time frame he realized that he could possibly get from a foreign team, all that he was not getting from SlayerS.
No matter how it goes though, this isn't the first time Jessica is at the center of a boat load of drama and I doubt it will be the last. She seems to have a penchant for histrionics and it does nothing but put me off her team.
So you're saying that Dragon was justifid in lying to the management of his team because he didn't get to live in the house? We have absolutely no idea what his contract status was, how much if anything he was paid, how he interacted with people behind the scenes... Literally all we know about the guy is that he's a popular-ish streamer with a shady past.
If Slayers didn't value him, then you have to think they wouldn't oppose him moving somewhere else. The team had much more invested in Sleep and Golden, and yet both players openly moved to other teams. Jessica's position has always been extremely positive about those moves. So if Dragon just wanted to leave, then he has no reason to lie. The only way that action makes sense is if he was under contract, quote-unquote retired to get out of that contract, and then was able to sign with a new team. That's entirely consistent with his behavior after his maphacking/stream cheating scandal; he publically apologized and promised to retire from pro gaming forever, only to break that promise little more than a month later. This is a tool he's used before.
I mean, the most charitable interpretation you've offered is that Dragon was too cowardly to tell his management that he was leaving, despite other teammates moving along with nothing but well wishes from Jessica. That seems flimsy to me.
On March 07 2012 18:58 Torte de Lini wrote: Y'know the issue with Jessica's laments is that it now actually creates a public problem. What is the public going to do about knowing how you feel about Dragon? Didn't anyone interpret Dragon's move as a backstab to SlayerS and if so, did you assume it was a valid theory or idea? Well Jessica has now just validated it and on top of that, SlayerS name gets tarnished because people will now associate this whole issue with Slayers in the back of their mind.
Before, it was all about Dragon going to Millenium after being teamless and reconsider going back to professional player rather than just an entertainer due to his past [and who knows if SlayerS would have put him back on the roster, especially with CoCa just returning). No one thought of it as a cowardly-way to get away from SlayerS, even if it was, it's not that huge of an issue for the public. Just the team and that team should complain purely amongst friends and themselves, the public won't side with you and even if they do, he's not going back SlayerS and you're certainly not taking him back.
So who wins here? You make an issue, you furthered it with outrageous potential claims and now you just tarnished your team's name. That's three strikes you're out.
What.
SlayerS name didn't get tarnished in my eyes. How does people associating the issue with SlayerS in the back of their mind tarnish anything?
There's some misunderstanding, perhaps. But nothing is more dramatic than 'That's three strikes you're out'.
What? When I think of SlayerS now, I will think of this and all the other issues with them such as the CoCa issue. Jessica and SlayerS Eve, how she is going to sue people for bad-mouthing SlayerS, etc. It stacks, if she didn't want people to think badly of SlayerS based on Dragon's actions, why raise the issue up at all. If Dragon leaves Millenium now or "lies/deceives" them for another team, it would be on him and the association would be purely on him.
Now it's about Dragon and SlayerS and just puts him in the dirt in addition to giving SlayerS a pointless victim role if anything or an organization with a tempered manager.
The three strikes thing was me trying to be the writer. As you can tell, I'm not Fitzgerald.
Ya, I find myself agreeing with your sentiments. I don't want to say Jessica is bad for slayers, because she definitely has a passion for her team and its members. But there always seems to be some lame drama surrounding her and slayers, and over time it has tarnished their image in my mind. On one hand I think of slayers and I think of the great players like boxer and mma, but at the same time all the Jessica incidents come to mind and they make me cringe. She feels kind of like a drama-queen, and though she does have the right to be angry and indignant in these cases, I don't feel like it should always be as public and sensationalized as it is. But I guess thats the purpose twitter serves...
On March 09 2012 04:41 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Edit: I implore everyone, before you start making judgements about what happened, look at the chronology. Most of the theories here don't make any sense if you just look at the dates of the various statements.
I already touched on that in an earlier post. Quite simply, I could understand if Dragon left to return to work, and then changed his mind very shortly afterwards. Also, I could understand why he would lie based on what I've seen of Jessica's behavior in the past, she's been involved in her fair share of drama and always comes off in the same overbearing and aggressive manner. If he wanted to leave SlayerS(a team he was getting little to nothing from aside from the name) and didn't want to have to go through Jessica(who honestly seems to be sort of a nightmare to me), I can understand why he would lie. I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable.
It's also important to note that Golden(I'm not sure about Sleep) was living in the SlayerS house for extended periods of time while Dragon was not. He seemed to be getting very little from SlayerS and they displayed no intention of investing more than they had in him. I don't see why Jessica is throwing such a colossal fit over a player that the team clearly never really considered an asset in the first place, even if he did lie.
Dragon would also have to be a moron to think that leaving the team, returning to work and then a week later returning to looking for a team would not be conspicuous. It is quite possible that in this time frame he realized that he could possibly get from a foreign team, all that he was not getting from SlayerS.
No matter how it goes though, this isn't the first time Jessica is at the center of a boat load of drama and I doubt it will be the last. She seems to have a penchant for histrionics and it does nothing but put me off her team.
So you're saying that Dragon was justifid in lying to the management of his team because he didn't get to live in the house? We have absolutely no idea what his contract status was, how much if anything he was paid, how he interacted with people behind the scenes... Literally all we know about the guy is that he's a popular-ish streamer with a shady past.
If Slayers didn't value him, then you have to think they wouldn't oppose him moving somewhere else. The team had much more invested in Sleep and Golden, and yet both players openly moved to other teams. Jessica's position has always been extremely positive about those moves. So if Dragon just wanted to leave, then he has no reason to lie. The only way that action makes sense is if he was under contract, quote-unquote retired to get out of that contract, and then was able to sign with a new team. That's entirely consistent with his behavior after his maphacking/stream cheating scandal; he publically apologized and promised to retire from pro gaming forever, only to break that promise little more than a month later. This is a tool he's used before.
I mean, the most charitable interpretation you've offered is that Dragon was too cowardly to tell his management that he was leaving, despite other teammates moving along with nothing but well wishes from Jessica. That seems flimsy to me.
I never said Dragon was justified, so no. I said I understand why he(or someone in general) would lie to get out of dealing with Jessica based on her aggressive and dramatic behavior in the past. I have little love for Dragon, I've barely watched his stream and don't consider him a particularly impressive player, apparently, neither did SlayerS since they never really use him for anything. Now, if he lied to get out of his contract then it's a dick move, I have yet to say otherwise so I'm not sure why you'd try and put words in my mouth.
My response is in regards to Jessica's reaction which is absolutely ridiculous in regards to a player that SlayerS could not have considered much of an asset based on what I know of him. There is also the possibility(albeit unlikely) that he is just an indecisive person when it comes to gaming, immediately doubling back on decisions to quit.
The point I'm making is in regards to the topic of Jessica's tweets and her overreaction in general. This isn't the first time she's had outbursts like this and it probably won't be the last. She comes across as hypocritical, abrasive and overdramatic.
On March 07 2012 20:49 -orb- wrote: Jessica should take some courses on PR
Her business sense is amazing but holy shit does she handle these situations poorly
Pretty funny how you should comment on handling things poorly seeing you handled the criticism after being outed by the community on giving racial slurs on ladder "poorly"
This
On topic: Seems a bit melodramatic and unprofessional by western standards but without knowing exactly what has happened between Dragon and SlayerS I won't judge either of them
On March 09 2012 04:41 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Edit: I implore everyone, before you start making judgements about what happened, look at the chronology. Most of the theories here don't make any sense if you just look at the dates of the various statements.
I already touched on that in an earlier post. Quite simply, I could understand if Dragon left to return to work, and then changed his mind very shortly afterwards. Also, I could understand why he would lie based on what I've seen of Jessica's behavior in the past, she's been involved in her fair share of drama and always comes off in the same overbearing and aggressive manner. If he wanted to leave SlayerS(a team he was getting little to nothing from aside from the name) and didn't want to have to go through Jessica(who honestly seems to be sort of a nightmare to me), I can understand why he would lie. I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable.
It's also important to note that Golden(I'm not sure about Sleep) was living in the SlayerS house for extended periods of time while Dragon was not. He seemed to be getting very little from SlayerS and they displayed no intention of investing more than they had in him. I don't see why Jessica is throwing such a colossal fit over a player that the team clearly never really considered an asset in the first place, even if he did lie.
Dragon would also have to be a moron to think that leaving the team, returning to work and then a week later returning to looking for a team would not be conspicuous. It is quite possible that in this time frame he realized that he could possibly get from a foreign team, all that he was not getting from SlayerS.
No matter how it goes though, this isn't the first time Jessica is at the center of a boat load of drama and I doubt it will be the last. She seems to have a penchant for histrionics and it does nothing but put me off her team.
So you're saying that Dragon was justifid in lying to the management of his team because he didn't get to live in the house? We have absolutely no idea what his contract status was, how much if anything he was paid, how he interacted with people behind the scenes... Literally all we know about the guy is that he's a popular-ish streamer with a shady past.
If Slayers didn't value him, then you have to think they wouldn't oppose him moving somewhere else. The team had much more invested in Sleep and Golden, and yet both players openly moved to other teams. Jessica's position has always been extremely positive about those moves. So if Dragon just wanted to leave, then he has no reason to lie. The only way that action makes sense is if he was under contract, quote-unquote retired to get out of that contract, and then was able to sign with a new team. That's entirely consistent with his behavior after his maphacking/stream cheating scandal; he publically apologized and promised to retire from pro gaming forever, only to break that promise little more than a month later. This is a tool he's used before.
I mean, the most charitable interpretation you've offered is that Dragon was too cowardly to tell his management that he was leaving, despite other teammates moving along with nothing but well wishes from Jessica. That seems flimsy to me.
I never said Dragon was justified, so no. I said I understand why he(or someone in general) would lie to get out of dealing with Jessica based on her aggressive and dramatic behavior in the past. I have little love for Dragon, I've barely watched his stream and don't consider him a particularly impressive player, apparently, neither did SlayerS since they never really use him for anything. Now, if he lied to get out of his contract then it's a dick move, I have yet to say otherwise so I'm not sure why you'd try and put words in my mouth.
My response is in regards to Jessica's reaction which is absolutely ridiculous in regards to a player that SlayerS could not have considered much of an asset based on what I know of him. There is also the possibility(albeit unlikely) that he is just an indecisive person when it comes to gaming, immediately doubling back on decisions to quit.
The point I'm making is in regards to the topic of Jessica's tweets and her overreaction in general. This isn't the first time she's had outbursts like this and it probably won't be the last. She comes across as hypocritical, abrasive and overdramatic.
If you only judge her based on the drama threads that sprout up on TL then yeah, but then you wouldn't be very smart would you. She has done a lot for the team and there is a lot more to her than just TL drama. Then again, if it doesn't hurt e-sports it doesn't get a 50 page thread on TL so...
Maybe Dragon went about leaving the wrong way, but was he under contract? Shouldn't a contract have limitations on things like this?... I'm both a Dragon fan and a Slayers fan, that shouldn't matter, and its stupid alot of people on here are just trying to put one group vs the other. All I'm saying is if he isn't under contract, he can leave whenever right?... Mill came him a contract most likely, with a length of time and a set salary. If you had a better opportunity, and got more money you wouldn't bounce out of there either?
I think a buncha people on here is dwelling on the dumb shit, support him or don't why drag this out... Dragon fans just want to see him play, what does the opposition want to see? What if he could possibly be one of the best sc2 players right now(with practice and getting into form) you guys rather screw up his sc2 career? I really dont understand the goal, put yourself in his shoes... I would hate to have random internet people talk shit about me just cause they are bored and got nothing better do than keep threads like these going.
As far as Jessica's tweets, she sounds like she's just using twitter to take cheap shots at him. Takes me back to high school childish days...
On March 09 2012 04:41 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Edit: I implore everyone, before you start making judgements about what happened, look at the chronology. Most of the theories here don't make any sense if you just look at the dates of the various statements.
I already touched on that in an earlier post. Quite simply, I could understand if Dragon left to return to work, and then changed his mind very shortly afterwards. Also, I could understand why he would lie based on what I've seen of Jessica's behavior in the past, she's been involved in her fair share of drama and always comes off in the same overbearing and aggressive manner. If he wanted to leave SlayerS(a team he was getting little to nothing from aside from the name) and didn't want to have to go through Jessica(who honestly seems to be sort of a nightmare to me), I can understand why he would lie. I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable.
It's also important to note that Golden(I'm not sure about Sleep) was living in the SlayerS house for extended periods of time while Dragon was not. He seemed to be getting very little from SlayerS and they displayed no intention of investing more than they had in him. I don't see why Jessica is throwing such a colossal fit over a player that the team clearly never really considered an asset in the first place, even if he did lie.
Dragon would also have to be a moron to think that leaving the team, returning to work and then a week later returning to looking for a team would not be conspicuous. It is quite possible that in this time frame he realized that he could possibly get from a foreign team, all that he was not getting from SlayerS.
No matter how it goes though, this isn't the first time Jessica is at the center of a boat load of drama and I doubt it will be the last. She seems to have a penchant for histrionics and it does nothing but put me off her team.
So you're saying that Dragon was justifid in lying to the management of his team because he didn't get to live in the house? We have absolutely no idea what his contract status was, how much if anything he was paid, how he interacted with people behind the scenes... Literally all we know about the guy is that he's a popular-ish streamer with a shady past.
If Slayers didn't value him, then you have to think they wouldn't oppose him moving somewhere else. The team had much more invested in Sleep and Golden, and yet both players openly moved to other teams. Jessica's position has always been extremely positive about those moves. So if Dragon just wanted to leave, then he has no reason to lie. The only way that action makes sense is if he was under contract, quote-unquote retired to get out of that contract, and then was able to sign with a new team. That's entirely consistent with his behavior after his maphacking/stream cheating scandal; he publically apologized and promised to retire from pro gaming forever, only to break that promise little more than a month later. This is a tool he's used before.
I mean, the most charitable interpretation you've offered is that Dragon was too cowardly to tell his management that he was leaving, despite other teammates moving along with nothing but well wishes from Jessica. That seems flimsy to me.
I never said Dragon was justified, so no. I said I understand why he(or someone in general) would lie to get out of dealing with Jessica based on her aggressive and dramatic behavior in the past. I have little love for Dragon, I've barely watched his stream and don't consider him a particularly impressive player, apparently, neither did SlayerS since they never really use him for anything. Now, if he lied to get out of his contract then it's a dick move, I have yet to say otherwise so I'm not sure why you'd try and put words in my mouth.
My response is in regards to Jessica's reaction which is absolutely ridiculous in regards to a player that SlayerS could not have considered much of an asset based on what I know of him. There is also the possibility(albeit unlikely) that he is just an indecisive person when it comes to gaming, immediately doubling back on decisions to quit.
The point I'm making is in regards to the topic of Jessica's tweets and her overreaction in general. This isn't the first time she's had outbursts like this and it probably won't be the last. She comes across as hypocritical, abrasive and overdramatic.
If you only judge her based on the drama threads that sprout up on TL then yeah, but then you wouldn't be very smart would you. She has done a lot for the team and there is a lot more to her than just TL drama. Then again, if it doesn't hurt e-sports it doesn't get a 50 page thread on TL so...
You can do positive things for your team internally and still be a drama queen. I'm not judging Jessica as a person at all, I'm forming my opinion of her public image as team manager based on what she does airs in public as team manager. She has a bad track record in this regard.
No doubt she does a bunch of great things for SlayerS. Being histrionic on twitter is not among them.
I dont see a problem here... May be he wanted to go back to the job...then he started streaming, became good at the game...its not like he quit the team and joined new team on last day... and even so what difference does it make.????????
SlayerS (all the Korean teams really, but they seem the one to be the most attracted by dramas, along with TSL) absolutely needs a korean-english-PR, like a Hwanni or a Reis to manage their relations.
None questions Jessica's attachment to the team but she's already proven to be very emotional about team-related stuff and often does not answer publicly in a considerate way, but rather she heats things up and makes the matter even worse.
She's what, 40? One would think with enough experience in the spotlight, one would be able to maintain at least a little bit of tact in their reactions.
On March 09 2012 00:23 LeSioN wrote: Or maybe dragon was confronted by jessica about his rampant stream cheating, and he told her he was quiting anyways. She's just to classy to call him out after the fact.
Just make shit up, believe it to be true and start insulting. That's your plan?
never said i believe it to be true. just speculating, like everyone else in this thread. also who did i insult? im pretty sure i did not resort to the blatant sexism being thrown around Jessica.
But Dragon didn't live in the slayers house... at all if I'm not mistaken, how can Jessica treat him like he owed SlayerS so much? He's simply an amazing talent that found a team that would give him money and a place to live. From what I got of the history, Slayers had him for the sake of convenience and imo underutilized an amazing talent.
On March 09 2012 13:29 _Khandi_ wrote: But Dragon didn't live in the slayers house... at all if I'm not mistaken, how can Jessica treat him like he owed SlayerS so much? He's simply an amazing talent that found a team that would give him money and a place to live. From what I got of the history, Slayers had him for the sake of convenience and imo underutilized an amazing talent.
As I understand the back story, Dragon was caught stream cheating during a tournament back in 2010. Kicked off of Werra for it / publicly apologized / claimed to retire as penance (not sure on the order of things exactly).
Then as a teamless player he qualifies for GSL Open 3, loses to Nestea in the Ro64. There's a huge outcry over him breaking his 'never competing again' promise. Mr Chae even has to make a statement about why they let him compete at all.
Fast forward, apparently he joins Slayers saying he's just playing for fun. He gets the competing itch again and tells Slayers, I'm leaving to focus on my job, while instead looking for a foreign team.
Of course he played for Slayers in IPL TAC and was on the actual team (not clan); so they knew he wasn't done competing, but still he didn't play much, so maybe they thought he was just semi-pro. Or maybe they were keeping him on a short leach like they did Coca after his scandal. Either way, they took a risk taking on someone that was 'damaged goods' and rehabilitating his rep (no controversies about his playing for Slayers I believe) and he doesn't even give them a straight answer for leaving.
On March 09 2012 13:29 _Khandi_ wrote: But Dragon didn't live in the slayers house... at all if I'm not mistaken, how can Jessica treat him like he owed SlayerS so much? He's simply an amazing talent that found a team that would give him money and a place to live. From what I got of the history, Slayers had him for the sake of convenience and imo underutilized an amazing talent.
As I understand the back story, Dragon was caught stream cheating during a tournament back in 2010. Kicked off of Werra for it / publicly apologized / claimed to retire as penance (not sure on the order of things exactly).
Then as a teamless player he qualifies for GSL Open 3, loses to Nestea in the Ro64. There's a huge outcry over him breaking his 'never competing again' promise. Mr Chae even has to make a statement about why they let him compete at all.
Fast forward, apparently he joins Slayers saying he's just playing for fun. He gets the competing itch again and tells Slayers, I'm leaving to focus on my job, while instead looking for a foreign team.
Of course he played for Slayers in IPL TAC and was on the actual team (not clan); so they knew he wasn't done competing, but still he didn't play much, so maybe they thought he was just semi-pro. Or maybe they were keeping him on a short leach like they did Coca after his scandal. Either way, they took a risk taking on someone that was 'damaged goods' and rehabilitating his rep (no controversies about his playing for Slayers I believe) and he doesn't even give them a straight answer for leaving.
On March 07 2012 20:49 -orb- wrote: Jessica should take some courses on PR
Her business sense is amazing but holy shit does she handle these situations poorly
Says the guy who got kicked out of EG cause of bad manners?
Like the admin said, let's not discuss the orb issue in this thread. What he said about Jessica isn't necessarily wrong, considering that she didn't really seemed to have thought about what non-Koreans would have thought about her tweets. Furthermore, people who make mistakes (orb in this case) still have the ability to see them on others.
It makes a lot of sense. You can tell that the Slayers team is more like a family, and that even though Dragon was a streamcheater, they accepted him as one of their own and kept him with them. Then, he leaves saying he intends to focus on work and leave the e-sports zone forever. However, this was not the case, as his stream led to his immense fame and popularity with the western crowd. Then he comes back into the scene signed on with a new team, has no mention of his previous statements, and slides on in, with people shouting with joy. There at least could have been a letter of acknowledgement or information or something to the Slayers team that he started out with. Hell, maybe they would have even accepted him back onto the team. But no, no mention of anything, it's all in the past. Maybe that's what hurts Jessica the most. The fact that he comes back on Millenium, while Jessica still considered him part of her family.
On March 07 2012 17:09 johnnywup wrote: jessica needs to stop responding publicly to this stuff >_>
this
jessica has no fucking class at all. such a drama queen, always and always. she and coach lee should start a team dedicated to making mountains out of molehills and causing drama whenever possible.
On March 09 2012 07:07 Scojo wrote: it's obvious that jessica wants his dick
User was warned for this post
LOL 3xposter, obvious troll, and just a warning! The post had some hidden merit I suppose?.. a nugget of wisdom lacking in presentation?
Well anyway... Does anyone find this whole "mom" mentality a bit unsettling? Golden just wanted to get away from the stress of having another mother! What a nightmare. Nagging at home and nagging at work, enough to drive any man insane. It's no wonder Dragon lied. I lie to my mom all the time to keep from disappointing her!! What did Jessica expect?
On March 09 2012 07:07 Scojo wrote: it's obvious that jessica wants his dick
User was warned for this post
LOL 3xposter, obvious troll, and just a warning! The post had some hidden merit I suppose?.. a nugget of wisdom lacking in presentation?
Well anyway... Does anyone find this whole "mom" mentality a bit unsettling? Golden just wanted to get away from the stress of having another mother! What a nightmare. Nagging at home and nagging at work, enough to drive any man insane. It's no wonder Dragon lied. I lie to my mom all the time to keep from disappointing her!! What did Jessica expect?
i think though you don't really understand proteams in Korea that well.
The "mom" mentality has to be there in pro teams. Because you have a number of young people who has moved to the house from their homes, generally this is their first time away from home and living somewhere else. The coaches and managers have to act like parents sometimes because of the age of the players.
Jessica is refering to that role as being a mother to the players. Making sure they are taken care of, making sure they get the same love and support they would get at home. Maybe that is (in your opinion) nagging, but the players need it if they want to be at their best. If the coaches and managers didn't care, then we would not see some players do nearly as well as they are.
One of the reasons I think SlayerS is doing so well is because of Jessica. She takes care of everyone like their her sons. She makes sure everyone is at their best and fufills their potential.
of course when she does get lied to, it cuts a bit deeper than it would if she didn't care as much. but she does care, and thats a good thing. Teams with coaches and managers who don't care often do not succed.
EPT
/QUOTE]
