I would venture to say that LoL is more dynamic than sc2. Sorry there's 50+ heroes against 3 races. If LoL could figure out how to balance more maps it would be quite a breakthrough.
I've played both. I'm only a 1600 level player in LoL after nearly 6 months of playing whereas I was a grandmaster in SC2 for multiple seasons. NA and EU although I played sc2 for nearly a year.
LoL is a different genre of game than sc2 and they really cant be compared. (yes I know I just compared them a little)
if people practice LoL just as hard as they practice SC2 or BW it would be just as difficult and high level. Remember how people used to say SC2 competition was a farce? Well yeah it was the first few seasons, LoL is in it's first few seasons as well.
On March 05 2012 14:09 docvoc wrote: is it true that he literally went snowboarding and got drunk? Seriously guys if thats trolling stop it he was the oGs.Cool that won GSL 1 and won it when zergs were having issues against terran, he was the "SaviOr-esque difference" of his time winning when terran seemed to dominate. Still i'm confused why he thinks his SC2 career is over, he could stay on TSL and play Starcraft, be like the TheWinD and coach etc. I'm confused, but maybe LoL is his calling.
He enjoys LoL, during his practice, you always saw him playing LoL just because he enjoys the game. It's an opinion, now people should stop calling LoL an easy game or whatever, it's different, it's still fun for certain people.
But it's a stupidly easy game to master with a low skill ceiling. I'm just as good as my friends who have been playing for two years, and probably even better than them. I just roll Garen and herp derp smash things in the face.
I'm not good at like any video game. I went semi pro in CoD 2, but after that I'm just mediocre at most video games so it's not like I'm a damn exception. I suck at Starcraft 2, it's just a completely different level of skill and strategy.
It's funny because so many BW players say the same thing about SC2...
Why does this thread have to be about shitting on LoL? Can't we just you know, talk about Fruitdealer?
On March 05 2012 13:14 FinestHour wrote: The LoL scene is growing at such a frightening fast pace, will definitely not be surprised to see it become as big as starcraft in korea...which made me start practicing it
thing is from what ive heard LoL doesnt have much long term viability, i think its mainly the makers who are sponsoring the tournys while Blizz has pretty much washed its hands off supporting SC2 after NASL
also with MLGs winter arena tournaments are starting to figure out how to turn a profit, Sundance has said that the winter arena is a sustainable bussiness without any sponsors (whicch i beleive is the only event in SC2 history) so to sponsors theyll look at LoL and see viewers and an industry that is gobbling up money and theyll look at SC2 and see a scene that is starting to become sustainable and start spending money over there
also i wouldnt be surprised if LoL teams are mainly springing up becuase they see big tourny prises and less that theres a huge giant viewrbase but i dont have access to any numbers here and just guessing
This is really wishful thinking, LoL has a base larger viewer base than SCII just because it's F2P, if SCII manages to ever find a model that is sustainable LoL will too and will have it better, if we don't... they still might, but if they fail with the support their getting and the much higher viewer count (and that's really what matters, the viewer count is what's going to decide how much money tournies make and whether they'll be able to float) then you can be sure that Starcraft will fail too.
lol is F2P which alot of people point at
oh look becuase its free alot of people paly it and watch it
MLG found out how to sustainable with PPV, how many people are gonna say "well if im not even willing to pay to paly the game why would i pay to watch it?"
SC2 viewerbase is growing fast, not jsut people who play the game but alot of people who dont, youll never walk into a bar and see LoL on the screen anytime soon
Please don't make up stuff, I don't like LoL that much either, but to shit on it or to lie about it isn't cool.
lol since when? Every mlg and GSL, the 2 biggest tournaments/leagues in the world had their numbers grow EVERY event last year. What are you talking about?
Have you even looked at GOM's vod/viewer numbers...? It's been pretty stable for the last few events (except Blizzard Cup), but it's well below that of several of their earlier events.
The recently finished HOT6iX GSL has higher viewer numbers than January 2011's GSL, which was one year ago and the first season still behind a pay-wall. Although the Open Season 1 and Open Season 2 peaked higher than the HOT6iX GSL's viewer numbers, they seem overall lower. GSL Open Season 3 peaked and has on-average lower views than the HOT6iX GSL.
You're looking at very specific events in regards to others. The graph on the previous page illustrates what I'm talking about mostly. There are certainly spikes at times, but all in all it's been steadily going down.
On March 05 2012 13:07 Forikorder wrote: whats with all the SC players going to LoL coachs...?
they basically gave-up their youth, education, and lives to play video games.. not a lot going for them
ya im sure BoxeR gave up his life to be a succesful SC player, i mean if he did something worthwhile he might be famous world wide made tons of money and had a hot GF
and Polt, i mean he could ahve gone to a high level university or something
There are those that burn out and have nothing left- the people you can't name off the top of your head. And while Polt is a nice example, he's an exception. There's a reason why you singled him out and only him- there are so few SC players in University that those that are are known for it.
your acting like SC2 is a dead end profession, it isnt you can win enough money to transition out of it if you really badly want to or you can go into coaching or commentating
the only difference between a SC2 player and any other sport player except Chess i guess is theres less money in the SC2 community for now but with the salaries palyers make from there teams theres nothing stopping them from pursuing tertiary education
People have already mentioned this but nice job picking the best SC player ever and a huge exception to the rule in Polt, the fact is for every Polt there are a dozen B-teamers that we never see who are giving up years of their lives that could go to classes or jobs to play a video game that just by the numbers the majority of them won't be stars in, that's how being a star works. And right now the SCII scene isn't big enough or strong enough to give real prospects to non-stars, hell even some of the most successful players see this, look at Stephano if anyone can make it just on Starcraft he could but he still would rather retire early and start into something else.
i say stephano is talking out of both sides of his mouth with one
hes trying to pretend he doesnt care about starcraft at all and that he only practices a couple hours a day and only cares about the money, then he throws away free money by forfeiting a tournament so he doesnt show bad games, he obviously cares alot more about the game then he lets on no way hell retire early
Yes those professions exist, but there aren't enough of them to go around for every retired A-teamer, let alone B-teamers and practice partners. If you want to talk about real sports, how many retired professionals can move on and get casting/coaching jobs? Some do, but saying that all do is completely false. Yes you can go to college later but then you're years behind, and by the time you get into the job market you're either competing against people your own age who have the same degrees as well as experience, or younger people who have brighter prospects and longer careers ahead of them.
well this makes him pulling out of IEM make a lot more sense. Good for him extending his career and doing something else in e-sports even after he stopped being a top contender.
On March 05 2012 14:09 docvoc wrote: is it true that he literally went snowboarding and got drunk? Seriously guys if thats trolling stop it he was the oGs.Cool that won GSL 1 and won it when zergs were having issues against terran, he was the "SaviOr-esque difference" of his time winning when terran seemed to dominate. Still i'm confused why he thinks his SC2 career is over, he could stay on TSL and play Starcraft, be like the TheWinD and coach etc. I'm confused, but maybe LoL is his calling.
He enjoys LoL, during his practice, you always saw him playing LoL just because he enjoys the game. It's an opinion, now people should stop calling LoL an easy game or whatever, it's different, it's still fun for certain people.
But it's a stupidly easy game to master with a low skill ceiling. I'm just as good as my friends who have been playing for two years, and probably even better than them. I just roll Garen and herp derp smash things in the face.
I'm not good at like any video game. I went semi pro in CoD 2, but after that I'm just mediocre at most video games so it's not like I'm a damn exception. I suck at Starcraft 2, it's just a completely different level of skill and strategy.
Hey man SC2 has had 2 years of evolution, we don't know what LoL will be like in 2 years. Just give it time and wait till its fully matured. Look how much HotS will change SC2, you have no idea how much can change, and we will have just as high level play just like SC2.
Also there is no such thing as a skill ceiling, removing tedious things like macro frees up apm so the players can focus better on other more interesting tasks, no macro means more micro and more strategy. Now you don't need to have 300 apm to be good at the game, and people who are better at strategy will win instead of just whoever is a korean mechanical robot.
damn its a bummer hes gone. I remember hearing stories after he won that he just got content and was being lazy. Its unfortunate cause his GSL run was actually pretty good at one time.
Viewership may have declined since the Open Seasons and early 2011, but it's not just because of waning interest. Many people probably did just move on to other stuff, just as many stopped playing multiplayer, and that's probably the biggest overall reason. Balance and watching terran all the time, or boring deathball vs deathball cold wars has been detrimental as well. There is still hope though.
Blizzard Cup Finals was a pretty big spike in viewership (310k views), and it would probably be even larger if people felt they were buying a longer season--more games for the buck. As the quality of the games improve, people may be drawn back. Leenock vs Jjakji was a smaller spike but the higher viewer count shows that people will tune in for quality games. I don't know why Mvp vs Top has 220k views and Mvp vs MMA has only 140k, other than people being tired of TvT. They were already tired of it in August, or even in the ST, I would have thought. One explanation for October final's low numbers may be Blizzard's higher quality Blizzcon stream, which I believe was available for a couple days afterward.
Other small factors may contribute, such as people simply having more time to view older vods, plus possibly more interest during the winter. Having watched guild stagnation during summer of WoW, I believe there is at least some basis for that. Those don't explain away everything, however. Interest has definitely declined, but I believe when the quality improves, including being rid of Protoss death ball play, some people may come back. Who knows with HotS though.
An additional note: I thought the crowd for DRG vs Genius was the biggest I've seen in Korea SC2 finals (not Blizzcon's crowd). Also noteworthy: it feels that with more tournaments now, viewership may also be spreading out. When people say there is too much stuff to watch it all, they actually mean it.
On March 05 2012 14:20 lkjewq wrote: I would venture to say that LoL is more dynamic than sc2. Sorry there's 50+ heroes against 3 races. If LoL could figure out how to balance more maps it would be quite a breakthrough.
I've played both. I'm only a 1600 level player in LoL after nearly 6 months of playing whereas I was a grandmaster in SC2 for multiple seasons. NA and EU although I played sc2 for nearly a year.
LoL is a different genre of game than sc2 and they really cant be compared. (yes I know I just compared them a little)
if people practice LoL just as hard as they practice SC2 or BW it would be just as difficult and high level. Remember how people used to say SC2 competition was a farce? Well yeah it was the first few seasons, LoL is in it's first few seasons as well.
50 heroes that get reduced to a few different roles. League champs are super similar. There's so many aspects to SC2 that make it more dynamic that I really refuse to believe that you were grandmaster. There's economy, maps, more than 50 units, multitasking, air units, building placement, timings, the list literally goes on forever. If you want a truly dynamic MOBA, you should be playing DOTA2. BTW, a grandmaster of SC2 should EASILY be able to be 2k elo+ in League. I only played SC2 when there was diamond league, and that was my league. I played League for a little while and hit 2k easily and quickly after getting to level 30. Seriously, you queue and you fulfill either bruisier top, ap mid, jungle, and ad carry or support bottom. The champions fulfill those roles, and their designs and really prevent what you think could be dynamic. I quit playing as soon as I got a beta key to DOTA2.
That said, I feel like League is still in its infancy stages when it comes to the pro scene. It's seriously a joke. All the of the top teams of League atm are a joke, none of them are very professional at all. They're pretty much all a bunch of decent players together on a team. If there were any disciplined team out there like a Staretale that looked at the game, figured it out, and aimed to elevate the game then that would be great. The level of skill in League I'd say is comparable to SC2 beta where everyone just all-in'd all the time.
edit: People talking about skill ceilings in SC2 is ridiculous. Mechanically, people may have gotten to the sufficient level. But people are getting better all of the time and at a good rate. There's still a lot to learn and explore. How confident would you be sending in the top player of right now in the future to about a year from now to play against their top players? Not very confident!!
On March 05 2012 13:14 FinestHour wrote: The LoL scene is growing at such a frightening fast pace, will definitely not be surprised to see it become as big as starcraft in korea...which made me start practicing it
thing is from what ive heard LoL doesnt have much long term viability, i think its mainly the makers who are sponsoring the tournys while Blizz has pretty much washed its hands off supporting SC2 after NASL
also with MLGs winter arena tournaments are starting to figure out how to turn a profit, Sundance has said that the winter arena is a sustainable bussiness without any sponsors (whicch i beleive is the only event in SC2 history) so to sponsors theyll look at LoL and see viewers and an industry that is gobbling up money and theyll look at SC2 and see a scene that is starting to become sustainable and start spending money over there
also i wouldnt be surprised if LoL teams are mainly springing up becuase they see big tourny prises and less that theres a huge giant viewrbase but i dont have access to any numbers here and just guessing
This is really wishful thinking, LoL has a base larger viewer base than SCII just because it's F2P, if SCII manages to ever find a model that is sustainable LoL will too and will have it better, if we don't... they still might, but if they fail with the support their getting and the much higher viewer count (and that's really what matters, the viewer count is what's going to decide how much money tournies make and whether they'll be able to float) then you can be sure that Starcraft will fail too.
lol is F2P which alot of people point at
oh look becuase its free alot of people paly it and watch it
MLG found out how to sustainable with PPV, how many people are gonna say "well if im not even willing to pay to paly the game why would i pay to watch it?"
SC2 viewerbase is growing fast, not jsut people who play the game but alot of people who dont, youll never walk into a bar and see LoL on the screen anytime soon
Please don't make up stuff, I don't like LoL that much either, but to shit on it or to lie about it isn't cool.
lol since when? Every mlg and GSL, the 2 biggest tournaments/leagues in the world had their numbers grow EVERY event last year. What are you talking about?
Have you even looked at GOM's vod/viewer numbers...? It's been pretty stable for the last few events (except Blizzard Cup), but it's well below that of several of their earlier events.
The recently finished HOT6iX GSL has higher viewer numbers than January 2011's GSL, which was one year ago and the first season still behind a pay-wall. Although the Open Season 1 and Open Season 2 peaked higher than the HOT6iX GSL's viewer numbers, they seem overall lower. GSL Open Season 3 peaked and has on-average lower views than the HOT6iX GSL.
PS 2011 only PPS gomtv.com numbers are significantly higher than gomtv.net, because korean gsl is free and don't have a pay wall.
Am I the only one that realizes the combined VOD views are in no way representative of declining viewership. I don't know the specifics of how GOM tracks views if it counts one person watching a VOD 3 times as one view or three views. There is a few different things at play here, first thing is that these are VODs not the actual live stream count.(If these are live stream counts and just called VOD for whatever reason than disregard this entire post). Another point is that the older a VOD is the more time it has to accumulate views, so an older VOD will naturally have more views than a newer one(people going back and watching fruitdealer's run through GSL S1?). Another point I guess is the round of 32 having more views than the finals, this should be a dead giveaway that these numbers are meaningless. It's no secret that way more people watch the finals of GSL than any other matches, so the only reason the round of 32 or 16 and so on have more views is because of people going back and watching games they didn't catch live(the finals come to mind here.) Hopefully I have shed some light on what I think is pretty shady use of random statistics.
On March 05 2012 13:14 FinestHour wrote: The LoL scene is growing at such a frightening fast pace, will definitely not be surprised to see it become as big as starcraft in korea...which made me start practicing it
thing is from what ive heard LoL doesnt have much long term viability, i think its mainly the makers who are sponsoring the tournys while Blizz has pretty much washed its hands off supporting SC2 after NASL
also with MLGs winter arena tournaments are starting to figure out how to turn a profit, Sundance has said that the winter arena is a sustainable bussiness without any sponsors (whicch i beleive is the only event in SC2 history) so to sponsors theyll look at LoL and see viewers and an industry that is gobbling up money and theyll look at SC2 and see a scene that is starting to become sustainable and start spending money over there
also i wouldnt be surprised if LoL teams are mainly springing up becuase they see big tourny prises and less that theres a huge giant viewrbase but i dont have access to any numbers here and just guessing
This is really wishful thinking, LoL has a base larger viewer base than SCII just because it's F2P, if SCII manages to ever find a model that is sustainable LoL will too and will have it better, if we don't... they still might, but if they fail with the support their getting and the much higher viewer count (and that's really what matters, the viewer count is what's going to decide how much money tournies make and whether they'll be able to float) then you can be sure that Starcraft will fail too.
lol is F2P which alot of people point at
oh look becuase its free alot of people paly it and watch it
MLG found out how to sustainable with PPV, how many people are gonna say "well if im not even willing to pay to paly the game why would i pay to watch it?"
SC2 viewerbase is growing fast, not jsut people who play the game but alot of people who dont, youll never walk into a bar and see LoL on the screen anytime soon
Please don't make up stuff, I don't like LoL that much either, but to shit on it or to lie about it isn't cool.
lol since when? Every mlg and GSL, the 2 biggest tournaments/leagues in the world had their numbers grow EVERY event last year. What are you talking about?
Have you even looked at GOM's vod/viewer numbers...? It's been pretty stable for the last few events (except Blizzard Cup), but it's well below that of several of their earlier events.
The recently finished HOT6iX GSL has higher viewer numbers than January 2011's GSL, which was one year ago and the first season still behind a pay-wall. Although the Open Season 1 and Open Season 2 peaked higher than the HOT6iX GSL's viewer numbers, they seem overall lower. GSL Open Season 3 peaked and has on-average lower views than the HOT6iX GSL.
PS 2011 only PPS gomtv.com numbers are significantly higher than gomtv.net, because korean gsl is free and don't have a pay wall.
Am I the only one that realizes the combined VOD views are in no way representative of declining viewership. I don't know the specifics of how GOM tracks views if it counts one person watching a VOD 3 times as one view or three views. There is a few different things at play here, first thing is that these are VODs not the actual live stream count.(If these are live stream counts and just called VOD for whatever reason than disregard this entire post). Another point is that the older a VOD is the more time it has to accumulate views, so an older VOD will naturally have more views than a newer one(people going back and watching fruitdealer's run through GSL S1?). Another point I guess is the round of 32 having more views than the finals, this should be a dead giveaway that these numbers are meaningless. It's no secret that way more people watch the finals of GSL than any other matches, so the only reason the round of 32 or 16 and so on have more views is because of people going back and watching games they didn't catch live(the finals come to mind here.) Hopefully I have shed some light on what I think is pretty shady use of random statistics.
I am pretty sure that stats were taken every end of each month. Correct me if I am wrong though
On March 05 2012 14:20 lkjewq wrote: I would venture to say that LoL is more dynamic than sc2. Sorry there's 50+ heroes against 3 races. If LoL could figure out how to balance more maps it would be quite a breakthrough.
I've played both. I'm only a 1600 level player in LoL after nearly 6 months of playing whereas I was a grandmaster in SC2 for multiple seasons. NA and EU although I played sc2 for nearly a year.
LoL is a different genre of game than sc2 and they really cant be compared. (yes I know I just compared them a little)
if people practice LoL just as hard as they practice SC2 or BW it would be just as difficult and high level. Remember how people used to say SC2 competition was a farce? Well yeah it was the first few seasons, LoL is in it's first few seasons as well.
50 heroes that get reduced to a few different roles. League champs are super similar. There's so many aspects to SC2 that make it more dynamic that I really refuse to believe that you were grandmaster. There's economy, maps, more than 50 units, multitasking, air units, building placement, timings, the list literally goes on forever. If you want a truly dynamic MOBA, you should be playing DOTA2. BTW, a grandmaster of SC2 should EASILY be able to be 2k elo+ in League. I only played SC2 when there was diamond league, and that was my league. I played League for a little while and hit 2k easily and quickly after getting to level 30. Seriously, you queue and you fulfill either bruisier top, ap mid, jungle, and ad carry or support bottom. The champions fulfill those roles, and their designs and really prevent what you think could be dynamic. I quit playing as soon as I got a beta key to DOTA2.
That said, I feel like League is still in its infancy stages when it comes to the pro scene. It's seriously a joke. All the of the top teams of League atm are a joke, none of them are very professional at all. They're pretty much all a bunch of decent players together on a team. If there were any disciplined team out there like a Staretale that looked at the game, figured it out, and aimed to elevate the game then that would be great. The level of skill in League I'd say is comparable to SC2 beta where everyone just all-in'd all the time.
edit: People talking about skill ceilings in SC2 is ridiculous. Mechanically, people may have gotten to the sufficient level. But people are getting better all of the time and at a good rate. There's still a lot to learn and explore. How confident would you be sending in the top player of right now in the future to about a year from now to play against their top players? Not very confident!!
LoL is to DOTA 2 what SC2 is to BW. Watching someone insult LoL while defending SC2 is hilarious.
On March 05 2012 15:00 Dfgj wrote: FD's a guy that was considered to have good talent but not be a hard worker. I'm not sure I'd want him coaching.
I always just thought his SC2 career declined because everyone else just got better than him. He's like the earlier and more successful version of Jinro. I know that he played SC2 to enjoy it, but I don't think that means he didn't work hard at SC2. Where did you hear that?
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ECAyc.png)
