EPTThat´s exactly how I feel when playing Toss. It lacks quite a lot of flexibility/mobility. Don´t get me wrong, I love playing it, but most of the time you try to defend, macro and survive instead of attacking - like Zerg but without the mobility and map awareness. Apart from certain timings where you can apply pressure or even go for the kill if you are ahead, there is really not much room to move out with many units. Protoss got bad harass units. There´s the phoenix, which works early on, but T simply got marines in their standard unit composition so it´s a dead end as a fighting unit later on, as soon as Zerg sees the phoenix a lot of queens and crawlers are out - so there you also got only a small timing window(though Zealot/VR harass @10 min mark is nice vs Zerg - if they take a quick third). Effective drops can be done either mid game with sentries/zealots(in very rare cases dts) or late game dts - especially vs zerg. Other than that? I would love to have half the various things Ts have: Reaper, Banshee, hellion, marine/marauder or pure marine drop(only thing close that can decimate a worker line that fast is storm/colossi drop - tell me which one is more cost effective?) I really don´t get the whining from all the Ts, yes late game is pretty hard, but I went from high plat to diamond(EU) in the last couple of weeks and all dia terrans sat in the storms and did NOT move. emps usually hit nothing @ that level, and people seem to have never heard of snipe.
TLPD winrates February 2012 - Page 7
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Doublemint
Austria8366 Posts
That´s exactly how I feel when playing Toss. It lacks quite a lot of flexibility/mobility. Don´t get me wrong, I love playing it, but most of the time you try to defend, macro and survive instead of attacking - like Zerg but without the mobility and map awareness. Apart from certain timings where you can apply pressure or even go for the kill if you are ahead, there is really not much room to move out with many units. Protoss got bad harass units. There´s the phoenix, which works early on, but T simply got marines in their standard unit composition so it´s a dead end as a fighting unit later on, as soon as Zerg sees the phoenix a lot of queens and crawlers are out - so there you also got only a small timing window(though Zealot/VR harass @10 min mark is nice vs Zerg - if they take a quick third). Effective drops can be done either mid game with sentries/zealots(in very rare cases dts) or late game dts - especially vs zerg. Other than that? I would love to have half the various things Ts have: Reaper, Banshee, hellion, marine/marauder or pure marine drop(only thing close that can decimate a worker line that fast is storm/colossi drop - tell me which one is more cost effective?) I really don´t get the whining from all the Ts, yes late game is pretty hard, but I went from high plat to diamond(EU) in the last couple of weeks and all dia terrans sat in the storms and did NOT move. emps usually hit nothing @ that level, and people seem to have never heard of snipe. | ||
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XiGua
Sweden3085 Posts
Terran has a winrate lower than 50%? Damn. Times are changing. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
and they're both unimportant but you'd think people care more about the graph featuring the best players in the world, and not the graph of foreigners. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/games#tblt-7515-2-1-DESC look at all these balancer determiners | ||
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Hakanfrog
Sweden690 Posts
Great post agree completely, I think that besides PvZ and PvT, you should also look at PvP when you want to see the flaws with protoss. That matchup shows the design problems that protoss has. I think you should post that on the battle.net forums and blizzard might see it. | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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GwSC
United States1997 Posts
Or on second thought maybe more appropriately....dat small sample size. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 03 2012 01:36 Twistacles wrote: Maybe they'll stop nerfing terran now? One can hope. It shows that with a small sample size the results are completely wonky, in KOR, but with 30k replays it makes a lot more sense. PvT just seems off. P's early pressure can be just as good as early T pressure, but their lategame is much better. Kind of frustrating, but there's no simple answer. We can't nerf them without affecting top level or other MUs, and we can't just 'make them harder to play'. How would we do that? It is unclear, but buffing some unused units(raven) may allow for a more robust terran late game. Also, the whole "terran has problems with late game vs Protoss" is a weird. Every macro game I win against a terran involves me getting a lead and then starving them out. Attacking into a 2 base terran that is turtling is a good way to throw away a lead. So most of my games end up in the late game, but I really won when I denied their 3rd for 7 minutes straight. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
But I loathe to post any of this on battle.net forums, what's the point? The vast majority of players will not understand, they'll still be stuck in their "x race OP" mindset, they won't have the reference points and mental frame to make sense of it. And there is no guarantee Blizzard will read it, so what is the point? So some bronze noobs can come and complain to me how I don't know anything and terran or zerg are OP? No thanks. If I knew for for a fact the devs would truly read it, and that they might act upon it, I'd be happy, but I don't think that will ever happen. You need to know people to make the wheels turn. | ||
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mEtRoSG
Germany192 Posts
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Kira__
Sweden2672 Posts
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
On March 03 2012 03:04 Kira__ wrote: how come winrates for mirror matchups arent included? lol | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43769 Posts
On March 02 2012 18:06 Joedaddy wrote: Wow at the Protoss dominance for February. That's pretty nuts. Edit: fucking lol @ medrea :p As Z>P, rofl It's nice to see Protoss ahead of Terran on their graph for once. Almost never ever see that x.x Gives me hope, as a Protoss player ^^ Is this the first time Terran has technically been last, ignoring the fact that they're all pretty much neck and neck? This month looks more balanced than most months  | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On March 03 2012 03:03 mEtRoSG wrote: its time for the first protoss nerf in the history of sc2! :D ...yeah. First. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On March 02 2012 18:27 HavocGG wrote: The korean chart's never been very balanced mainly due to how low the amount of games played is compared to international, keep that in mind guys. Korean : 363 games International : 2208 games korean sample size to small, international sample way too varied skill level This is some nice trivia, but people seem to think it's some sort of Bible, well at least those who can't see past the numbers but still want to voice "their" "objective" opinion | ||
pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
On March 03 2012 03:03 mEtRoSG wrote: its time for the first protoss nerf in the history of sc2! :D You must be new here They killed manzenith  | ||
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Hakanfrog
Sweden690 Posts
On March 03 2012 03:03 mEtRoSG wrote: its time for the first protoss nerf in the history of sc2! :D Protoss has had two of the biggest nerfs ever in the game: Khaydarin amulet removal and warp gate research time increase. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On March 03 2012 03:03 Destructicon wrote: I know PvP is a really terrible MU as well and very indicative of the short comings of the race, and I've often theorized on how it could be improved as well. But I loathe to post any of this on battle.net forums, what's the point? The vast majority of players will not understand, they'll still be stuck in their "x race OP" mindset, they won't have the reference points and mental frame to make sense of it. And there is no guarantee Blizzard will read it, so what is the point? So some bronze noobs can come and complain to me how I don't know anything and terran or zerg are OP? No thanks. If I knew for for a fact the devs would truly read it, and that they might act upon it, I'd be happy, but I don't think that will ever happen. You need to know people to make the wheels turn. Yeah. PvP really needs to be fixed. I thought it would settle and become less knife-edge, less BO dependant, but instead it seems to have become more so. At least when everyone 4gated it came down to micro, now it mostly comes down to who picked the right build order. Just change Protoss a bit so that there is a stable build for PvP, that is fun to watch and doesn't straight out die to certain BOs. Don't make that the ONLY build viable, but make it so that it is the standard, and any variation on that is unusual. I don't even mind the lack of macro games. I don't mind the lack of high tech units, or big army battles. What I do mind is how notoriously ridiculous the matchup is, in terms of stability, build orders and guesswork. | ||
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eighteen8
105 Posts
game now seems pretty balanced for the top 1% of players. fuck the 99%. wait...aren't we the..? shit | ||
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