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Horseballs I disagree. I think the reason BW never hit it off in the west was the fact that nobody knew about progaming, internet wasn't as good as it is now or anything. You have to remember that BW was casted on TV and live audience and unless I am mistaken there were no live streams for awhile due to how bad internet was at the time. I remember some old TL vets saying they had to wait something like 24 hours before vods would be posted online and then they would have to wait another hour or so for the video to buffer so that they could watch it.
I for example didn't even know there was such a thing as progaming or esports until I was a junior or senior in high school (in 2009 was around when I found out and got super interested in it). Now today it obviously is a lot more known about professionals, I know my friends have commentated on it a few times on how crazy it is that in korea they play starcraft professionally.
With how internet is now I imagine if BW was released (with better graphics as I don't see a 2D game selling that well anymore for the most part) I imagine it would have hit off very well in the west compared to now.
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On April 06 2012 04:09 blade55555 wrote:
Horseballs I disagree. I think the reason BW never hit it off in the west was the fact that nobody knew about progaming, internet wasn't as good as it is now or anything. You have to remember that BW was casted on TV and live audience and unless I am mistaken there were no live streams for awhile due to how bad internet was at the time. I remember some old TL vets saying they had to wait something like 24 hours before vods would be posted online and then they would have to wait another hour or so for the video to buffer so that they could watch it.
I for example didn't even know there was such a thing as progaming or esports until I was a junior or senior in high school (in 2009 was around when I found out and got super interested in it). Now today it obviously is a lot more known about professionals, I know my friends have commentated on it a few times on how crazy it is that in korea they play starcraft professionally.
With how internet is now I imagine if BW was released (with better graphics as I don't see a 2D game selling that well anymore for the most part) I imagine it would have hit off very well in the west compared to now.
It still requires an audience that is interested in the game. Your points are valid, however I don't want my argument to be twisted and turned away from my main point, which is that considerations also have to be made for your everyday battlenet player as well as for the pro scene - and that it may even be the case that it is more important to give attention to your average player.
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I think part of why the international graph always looks so balanced is because lots of international tournaments have open brackets, while in korea TLPD only records games of the best of the best.
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Awful lot of mindless Protoss bashing in this thread...getting pretty sick of all the unfounded hate.
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On April 06 2012 03:19 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 03:13 Yonnua wrote:On April 06 2012 01:25 DrowSwordsman wrote:On April 05 2012 23:54 Noocta wrote:
I guess the Ghost patch did his effect. :/ These are a month old, in the latest Terran beats Protoss handily both Korea-only and international. http://imgur.com/a/XmBDVBlizzard should let the game be for awhile. The Korea graph is just a duplicate of the international one. It even says international at the bottom. <.< Would like to see the actual Korean stats. Here is the korean one: http://i.imgur.com/VCQcQ.pngAs a terran it makes me sad, since TvP is already very hard (macro terran), and when I see these stats, we can expect another nerf...
I blame Byun.
But seriously, if there's another Terran nerf because of this, I don't think I can handle it. It's just not going to be fun anymore.
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On April 06 2012 04:14 Horseballs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 04:09 blade55555 wrote:
Horseballs I disagree. I think the reason BW never hit it off in the west was the fact that nobody knew about progaming, internet wasn't as good as it is now or anything. You have to remember that BW was casted on TV and live audience and unless I am mistaken there were no live streams for awhile due to how bad internet was at the time. I remember some old TL vets saying they had to wait something like 24 hours before vods would be posted online and then they would have to wait another hour or so for the video to buffer so that they could watch it.
I for example didn't even know there was such a thing as progaming or esports until I was a junior or senior in high school (in 2009 was around when I found out and got super interested in it). Now today it obviously is a lot more known about professionals, I know my friends have commentated on it a few times on how crazy it is that in korea they play starcraft professionally.
With how internet is now I imagine if BW was released (with better graphics as I don't see a 2D game selling that well anymore for the most part) I imagine it would have hit off very well in the west compared to now. It still requires an audience that is interested in the game. Your points are valid, however I don't want my argument to be twisted and turned away from my main point, which is that considerations also have to be made for your everyday battlenet player as well as for the pro scene - and that it may even be the case that it is more important to give attention to your average player.
Ad Sc2 still has a large audience. You don't have to play 1v1 SC2 at a high level to enjoy watching it. There are plenty of people who watch it who don't even play 1v1 or SC2 at all. Also I'd argue that if you want to cry for low league balance changes, you've come to the wrong place. Tl.net is not a place that is meant for balance complaining, or crying for balance changes. Also I think the attitude of "I refuse to get better so I want the game to cater to my skill level" is a bad one to have, and will most likely not be taken to too kindly on these forums. Honestly, in your post you basically said "balance around my skill level or I will quit and never watch SC2 again." Is that really the sort of customers blizzard and esports needs? Ones who will cry and threaten to leave if they don't get their way?
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On April 06 2012 04:37 SolidMoose wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 03:19 Snowbear wrote:On April 06 2012 03:13 Yonnua wrote:On April 06 2012 01:25 DrowSwordsman wrote:On April 05 2012 23:54 Noocta wrote:
I guess the Ghost patch did his effect. :/ These are a month old, in the latest Terran beats Protoss handily both Korea-only and international. http://imgur.com/a/XmBDVBlizzard should let the game be for awhile. The Korea graph is just a duplicate of the international one. It even says international at the bottom. <.< Would like to see the actual Korean stats. Here is the korean one: http://i.imgur.com/VCQcQ.pngAs a terran it makes me sad, since TvP is already very hard (macro terran), and when I see these stats, we can expect another nerf... I blame Byun. But seriously, if there's another Terran nerf because of this, I don't think I can handle it. It's just not going to be fun anymore.
do you think its fun for the other races for last year? (specifically protoss) We have a few positive months and there is a crying unheard of. Terran have had alot of positive months. Alot
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i find the playhem one that actually included game lengths in their graphs infinitely more useful, personally.
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Canada13414 Posts
It always surprises me to see such high win rates for protoss when most of the time I see toss losing to zerg if they try to go for macro games. Seems like a lot of the koreans are going for 2 base timings more than anything else against Zerg
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On April 06 2012 04:54 ZeromuS wrote:
It always surprises me to see such high win rates for protoss when most of the time I see toss losing to zerg if they try to go for macro games. Seems like a lot of the koreans are going for 2 base timings more than anything else against Zerg
Exactly. The issue with SC2 right now is not balance, even though it occasionally manifests itself in balance. It's design. Protoss 2base timings against Zerg are too strong. Zerg 3base Roach max is too strong against Protoss. Terran early/midgame is too strong against Protoss. Protoss lategame is too strong against Terran. Sure, that can be made "balanced", but it makes for a hell of a boring game. In order for this game to become really interesting, serious changes are going to have to be made to Marines, Roaches, Banshees, Mutalisks, Warp Gate, Sentries, Colossi, Larva Inject, and hell, probably some other parts of the game as well.
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On April 06 2012 04:40 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 04:37 SolidMoose wrote:On April 06 2012 03:19 Snowbear wrote:On April 06 2012 03:13 Yonnua wrote:On April 06 2012 01:25 DrowSwordsman wrote:On April 05 2012 23:54 Noocta wrote:
I guess the Ghost patch did his effect. :/ These are a month old, in the latest Terran beats Protoss handily both Korea-only and international. http://imgur.com/a/XmBDVBlizzard should let the game be for awhile. The Korea graph is just a duplicate of the international one. It even says international at the bottom. <.< Would like to see the actual Korean stats. Here is the korean one: http://i.imgur.com/VCQcQ.pngAs a terran it makes me sad, since TvP is already very hard (macro terran), and when I see these stats, we can expect another nerf... I blame Byun. But seriously, if there's another Terran nerf because of this, I don't think I can handle it. It's just not going to be fun anymore. do you think its fun for the other races for last year? (specifically protoss) We have a few positive months and there is a crying unheard of. Terran have had alot of positive months. Alot
Exactly. I don't really get this attitude "oh noes, we are still owning the game hard and blizzard might nerf us once more, life is soo unfair for terran". Well buhu, what about the losing races?
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On April 06 2012 05:14 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 04:40 SuperYo1000 wrote:On April 06 2012 04:37 SolidMoose wrote:On April 06 2012 03:19 Snowbear wrote:On April 06 2012 03:13 Yonnua wrote:On April 06 2012 01:25 DrowSwordsman wrote:On April 05 2012 23:54 Noocta wrote:
I guess the Ghost patch did his effect. :/ These are a month old, in the latest Terran beats Protoss handily both Korea-only and international. http://imgur.com/a/XmBDVBlizzard should let the game be for awhile. The Korea graph is just a duplicate of the international one. It even says international at the bottom. <.< Would like to see the actual Korean stats. Here is the korean one: http://i.imgur.com/VCQcQ.pngAs a terran it makes me sad, since TvP is already very hard (macro terran), and when I see these stats, we can expect another nerf... I blame Byun. But seriously, if there's another Terran nerf because of this, I don't think I can handle it. It's just not going to be fun anymore. do you think its fun for the other races for last year? (specifically protoss) We have a few positive months and there is a crying unheard of. Terran have had alot of positive months. Alot Exactly. I don't really get this attitude "oh noes, we are still owning the game hard and blizzard might nerf us once more, life is soo unfair for terran". Well buhu, what about the losing races?
It's not fun when the hardest race to play gets even harder because the top koreans happen to play Terran. You should stop looking at top results because it is not representative of the experience 99.9% of Terrans are having. Another nerf is getting to the point where if you aren't pro, you simply can't play Terran. Congrats, the game is balanced at the top level. But I don't really care because it's no longer fun struggling.
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On April 06 2012 05:53 SolidMoose wrote:
It's not fun when the hardest race to play gets even harder because the top koreans happen to play Terran. You should stop looking at top results because it is not representative of the experience 99.9% of Terrans are having. Another nerf is getting to the point where if you aren't pro, you simply can't play Terran. Congrats, the game is balanced at the top level. But I don't really care because it's no longer fun struggling.
If you play the ladder you win 50% of your games do you not? How then is your extraordinary struggling manifesting itself?
It's not the game conspiring against you to make you lose - you even have have examples to look up to and strive to emulate. The solutions are out there within your grasp. Sure, you may not be pro, but then again neither are your opponents. Your non-pro control and macro should still prevail as long as you play better than your opponent.
For the other races they lacked even pros to look up to and emulate when they were having a hard time. You have the solutions laid out for you - you simply have to execute them to the best of your abilities.
I have zero sympathy for you when you say you are done struggling. Do you want easy wins without effort? If so this isn't the game for you. This game is all about the constant struggling.
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EPT
