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They need to come up with a solution in regards to Feedback, whether a nerf or changing it all together.
Feedback affects:
Medivacs
Ghosts
BCs
Thors
Ravens + PDD
Really? Make feedback deal 50% or even no damage to Mechanical Units, I don't know--- but having it make Ravens 100% useless, Thors vulnerable and pointless--- as you can't use strike cannons to attack archons/colossus/immortals and it takes a long time to reach a lot of energy on that unit, just seem downright absurd. Medivacs lose their main focus of healing, and damaging BCs/preventing yamato (though I suppose you rarely do see yamato in TvP).
The struggle with TvP late game is Terran can't transition out of bio play. Why build Thors when your opponent will probably have chargelots/templars/robotech?
Why mass BCs when they will have archons/stalkers/templars, and more than likely you will be extremely behind on upgrades?
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On March 03 2012 07:17 SniXSniPe wrote:
Feedback affects:
Medivacs
Ghosts
BCs
Thors
Ravens + PDD
Emp affects:
Every protoss units shield
Sentries
High templars
phenixes
Mothership
It basically damage any unit it hits, prevents spellcasters to cast any spell and unlike feedback it's in a zone. I really don't think balance suggestions should be done in this post...
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On March 03 2012 07:17 SniXSniPe wrote:
They need to come up with a solution in regards to Feedback, whether a nerf or changing it all together.
Feedback affects:
Medivacs
Ghosts
BCs
Thors
Ravens + PDD
Really? Make feedback deal 50% or even no damage to Mechanical Units, I don't know--- but having it make Ravens 100% useless, Thors vulnerable and pointless--- as you can't use strike cannons to attack archons/colossus/immortals and it takes a long time to reach a lot of energy on that unit, just seem downright absurd. Medivacs lose their main focus of healing, and damaging BCs/preventing yamato (though I suppose you rarely do see yamato in TvP).
The struggle with TvP late game is Terran can't transition out of bio play. Why build Thors when your opponent will probably have chargelots/templars/robotech?
Why mass BCs when they will have archons/stalkers/templars, and more than likely you will be extremely behind on upgrades?
I don't get this complaint. Thos have 400 HP and at most they can have 200 energy Bs have 550 HP. While it does a lot of damage if the Thors have full energy I don't see how Feedback makes Thors THAT vulnerable or pointless. Though I wouldn't mind a change back to Cooldown. But as far as Bcs and Thors I don't think Feedback is their biggest problem. As for the raven I think its relation with feedback is fine as its an anticaster unit. I do think that the Raven should be made more "movable" as its vulnerability IMO is more due to being relatively slow.
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On March 03 2012 07:29 Iblis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:17 SniXSniPe wrote:
Feedback affects:
Medivacs
Ghosts
BCs
Thors
Ravens + PDD
Emp affects: Every protoss units shield Sentries High templars phenixes Mothership It basically damage any unit it hits, prevents spellcasters to cast any spell and unlike feedback it's in a zone. I really don't think balance suggestions should be done in this post...
Well, to be fair Feedback can potentially kill an unit and remove it from the "board" all together. While EMP if you retreat is only temporary.Its dumb to compare abilities directly though....
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On March 03 2012 07:29 Iblis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:17 SniXSniPe wrote:
Feedback affects:
Medivacs
Ghosts
BCs
Thors
Ravens + PDD
Emp affects: Every protoss units shield Sentries High templars phenixes Mothership It basically damage any unit it hits, prevents spellcasters to cast any spell and unlike feedback it's in a zone. I really don't think balance suggestions should be done in this post...
That's a stupid comparison. Both races have different units and the skills affect differently.
The point being is EMP doesn't stop Protoss players from building Archons/Colossus/Motherships/sentries, now does it?
How OFTEN do you see a Thor/Raven/or even a successful BC build in a late game TvP?
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Blizzard should just wait now and see imo, I don't hope we see some sudden nerfs/buffs
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On March 03 2012 07:36 eYeball wrote:
Blizzard should just wait now and see imo, I don't hope we see some sudden nerfs/buffs
Definitely, and the charts support that. International looks pretty balanced and Korea looks really unstable. Either way I don't think they can be confident that there's imbalance or what it might be.
That said, nerf protoss!@ 
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On March 03 2012 07:29 Iblis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:17 SniXSniPe wrote:
Feedback affects:
Medivacs
Ghosts
BCs
Thors
Ravens + PDD
Emp affects: Every protoss units shield Sentries High templars phenixes Mothership It basically damage any unit it hits, prevents spellcasters to cast any spell and unlike feedback it's in a zone. I really don't think balance suggestions should be done in this post...
God this is among the dumbest and least productive lines of thought. Snixsnipe pointed out multiple reasons why feedback makes it virtually impossible to tech swap out of bio. EMP hardly does that to protoss. You can't just say they cancel each other out and it's balanced.
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Seeing the shift in korean PvT and PvZ is pretty incredible. The game is most definitely unstable. However, T and Z ain't really hurting for tourney results recently either.
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The korea winrates are very interesting. Surprisingly tvp is the only matchup that looks balanced. Quite a turnaround.
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i find these interesting but the amount of QQ from people that suck too hard to talk about balance (myself included) is unbelievable.
"Waaa zerg korea rates" this month
"Waaa terran International" the next month
I feel like im in the WOW battle net forums with how much people want stuff patched...
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On March 03 2012 07:00 xrapture wrote:
Toss deal with harrass easiest out of all the races. They have static defense that hits air and ground without costing supply, and they can warp in units in response to anything.
"Reapers/Hellions/Banshees can cheaply force a disproportionate amount of units to stay home and defend"
well 2 stalkers is enough for reapers (not to mention if the terran builds more than 1 the toss already won the game), warp in is enough for helions, and banshee openings are pretty common but only do damage if the toss isn't prepared. Zerg and terran preemptively get spore crawlers and missle turrets nearly every game, yet I never see toss place a single cannon.
If Toss is building statics (beyond the 1-2 of a PvZ forge expand) or leaving units home, he's not punishing you with a timing attack. If a Reaper and a Hellion can force the Protoss to leave a couple Stalkers home, and let you scout his base (and see a third) they've already done far more than pay for themselves.
Terrans are often frustrated that Protoss's Stalkers can always escape early on if the Protoss is wary enough -- until Stimpacks and Concussive, nothing can really catch them, so they can poke around the map to the limits of the Protoss's ability to multitask. Well, Hellions and Reapers can do the same unless Protoss has Phoenixes or Blink... sure, they're pretty awkward to mass, but I don't think there's any need to mass 'em, and they both fall right along the normal Terran tech paths. A Banshee or two can also scout brilliantly and pin Protoss units at home + force observers with the threat of cloak, and they pull their weight in a straight-up fight if they don't die harassing, but that's a much larger investment.
On March 03 2012 07:05 Recognizable wrote:
another problem in the TvP matchup is how there are almost zero viable all ins for terran. I can think of 2, marine scv all in, which any non greedy build can stop without having to be scouted, and 1-1-1, which any 1 gate FE crushes. However, on the other hand protoss has about 8+ viable all ins I can think off, and any of them will basically kill you if not prepared. This allows protoss to be super greedy and they are already taking 3rd at minute 6 whilst pressuring with 8+ gateways. Really scary stuff.
My TvP experience says a two rax no-gas opening which pulls ~half its SCVs can trade favorably against any 13 gate --> core opening that doesn't go Zealot-before-Stalker, can hide its second rax so that it likes like a 1 rax FE, and still has the economy to pump SCVs and transition into Marauder or marine-tank-banshee play or bunker expand; that was my build when I got tired of PvP. That was months ago and in masters, but I'm sure pros could micro marine-scv much better than I.
I don't think Terran has run out of scary timings.
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On March 03 2012 07:34 SniXSniPe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:29 Iblis wrote:On March 03 2012 07:17 SniXSniPe wrote:
Feedback affects:
Medivacs
Ghosts
BCs
Thors
Ravens + PDD
Emp affects: Every protoss units shield Sentries High templars phenixes Mothership It basically damage any unit it hits, prevents spellcasters to cast any spell and unlike feedback it's in a zone. I really don't think balance suggestions should be done in this post... That's a stupid comparison. Both races have different units and the skills affect differently. The point being is EMP doesn't stop Protoss players from building Archons/Colossus/Motherships/sentries, now does it? How OFTEN do you see a Thor/Raven/or even a successful BC build in a late game TvP?
About the same time I see it used at all, never. Never score if you don't shoot. 
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I wonder what the stats are for the hundreds of thousands of ladder games played everyday are. This is a good size sample but Blizzards numbers are a far better indicator of what the balance actually is and only they are able to see it.
IMO BLizzard should have just let the game play itself out long ago Take out the last two patches and think of where this game might be today. It really seems that whenever they come in to patch something that felt a little to strong people were just starting to figure out how to defend said strong strategy, then the patch comes in and basically takes out that strategy completely.
Anyways, leave the game as it is till HotS from now on and make some changes during the beta for HotS if need be.
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On March 03 2012 07:50 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:00 xrapture wrote:
Toss deal with harrass easiest out of all the races. They have static defense that hits air and ground without costing supply, and they can warp in units in response to anything.
"Reapers/Hellions/Banshees can cheaply force a disproportionate amount of units to stay home and defend"
well 2 stalkers is enough for reapers (not to mention if the terran builds more than 1 the toss already won the game), warp in is enough for helions, and banshee openings are pretty common but only do damage if the toss isn't prepared. Zerg and terran preemptively get spore crawlers and missle turrets nearly every game, yet I never see toss place a single cannon.
If Toss is building statics (beyond the 1-2 of a PvZ forge expand) or leaving units home, he's not punishing you with a timing attack. If a Reaper and a Hellion can force the Protoss to leave a couple Stalkers home, and let you scout his base (and see a third) they've already done far more than pay for themselves. Terrans are often frustrated that Protoss's Stalkers can always escape early on if the Protoss is wary enough -- until Stimpacks and Concussive, nothing can really catch them, so they can poke around the map to the limits of the Protoss's ability to multitask. Well, Hellions and Reapers can do the same unless Protoss has Phoenixes or Blink... sure, they're pretty awkward to mass, but I don't think there's any need to mass 'em, and they both fall right along the normal Terran tech paths. A Banshee or two can also scout brilliantly and pin Protoss units at home + force observers with the threat of cloak, and they pull their weight in a straight-up fight if they don't die harassing, but that's a much larger investment. Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:05 Recognizable wrote:
another problem in the TvP matchup is how there are almost zero viable all ins for terran. I can think of 2, marine scv all in, which any non greedy build can stop without having to be scouted, and 1-1-1, which any 1 gate FE crushes. However, on the other hand protoss has about 8+ viable all ins I can think off, and any of them will basically kill you if not prepared. This allows protoss to be super greedy and they are already taking 3rd at minute 6 whilst pressuring with 8+ gateways. Really scary stuff. My TvP experience says a two rax no-gas opening which pulls ~half its SCVs can trade favorably against any 13 gate --> core opening that doesn't go Zealot-before-Stalker, can hide its second rax so that it likes like a 1 rax FE, and still has the economy to pump SCVs and transition into Marauder or marine-tank-banshee play or bunker expand; that was my build when I got tired of PvP. That was months ago and in masters, but I'm sure pros could micro marine-scv much better than I. I don't think Terran has run out of scary timings.
There is so much wrong with this post, it's not even worth going into it. But whatever. First of all, Hellions and Reapers? Really? That literally dies to almost every single protoss all-in I could think of. You die to three gate voids, 4 gate, your expansion is extremely delayed because of early gas. "right along the normal terran tech paths", yes, but you usually expand and then tech, not the other way around, unless you want to be massively behind in economy. And 1 stalkers can take a reaper out without even losing shield. So the terran opens 1 rax tech lab into FE and then what? gets a reaper, protoss 4 gates leaves 1 stalker in his base and wins? Or 3 gate void ray, what's terran gonna do against that? This is all extremely risky nonsense and the only thing you get out of it is some map control, but even that is wrong because stalkers beat both reaper and hellions. So what exactly would be the point of that opening? auto-loss????
And banshees are cost effective in straight up fights? This is wrong too, I doubt you even play this game because banshees are everything but cost effective in a midgame fight. And anyway, let's just assume you open banshees, when are you going to expand, what is your other tech, do you go reactor marines? if not, you will once again die to 3 gate void ray/4 gate and all that other good stuff.
"that doesn't go zealot before stalker"... really? I mean really? thats what protoss players mainly do.. and just to put this straight, you go semi-all in and THEN expo? That doesn't even make any sense, you either pull all scvs or none, you can't semi all-in with 50% of your scvs and then expo behind, that doesn't even make any sense at all. it may have worked months ago, like you said, but protoss players aren't stupid anymore, they know how to react to terran attacks, they have actually learned it. Terran has exactly 1 viable all-in and that's the 1-1-1, everything else only works against terrible, terrible protoss players.
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On March 03 2012 07:05 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:00 xrapture wrote:On March 03 2012 05:46 Severedevil wrote:
I can only think of a few things I'm convinced really aren't OK in SC2 at the moment, and they're pretty minor:
-Carriers.
-Thor strike cannons.
-Raven Seeker Missile.
-Raven autoturret's attack not receiving upgrades from anything, to keep pace with armor.
-Hydras being weak, now that maps aren't teeny-tiny.
Overall, I'm very pleased with the improvements in Protoss early-game PvT, and I suspect clever counterattacks will be the simplest solution. Protoss seems to rely upon their ability to put every single attacking unit in one place due to warp-ins, but a couple Reapers/Hellions/Banshees can cheaply force a disproportionate amount of units to stay home and defend. A medivac can do a similar job, but not until you've got stim and a decent bio force, which leaves the window that current Protoss seem to be exploiting... Toss deal with harrass easiest out of all the races. They have static defense that hits air and ground without costing supply, and they can warp in units in response to anything. "Reapers/Hellions/Banshees can cheaply force a disproportionate amount of units to stay home and defend" well 2 stalkers is enough for reapers (not to mention if the terran builds more than 1 the toss already won the game), warp in is enough for helions, and banshee openings are pretty common but only do damage if the toss isn't prepared. Zerg and terran preemptively get spore crawlers and missle turrets nearly every game, yet I never see toss place a single cannon. These past couple months toss have been hardcore greedy, and there aren't many timings that can punish them. When we see a Terran defeat toss from early timings it's because he is absurdly better than the toss, aka marineking vs Huk/naniwa, polt vs hero, puma vs titan. Evenely matched, like today Sjow vs Tod, or Thorzain vs Grubby at MLG toss has the advantage in nearly all aspects of the game besides super early. Indeed, another problem in the TvP matchup is how there are almost zero viable all ins for terran. I can think of 2, marine scv all in, which any non greedy build can stop without having to be scouted, and 1-1-1, which any 1 gate FE crushes. However, on the other hand protoss has about 8+ viable all ins I can think off, and any of them will basically kill you if not prepared. This allows protoss to be super greedy and they are already taking 3rd at minute 6 whilst pressuring with 8+ gateways. Really scary stuff.
It´s a problem that terran doesn´t have many viable all-ins?
I don´t really mind all-ins, but some of them are just straight out cheesy. One does not go for 1-1-1 because you reacted to what the protoss does, it´s just a mindless all in.
I think you are exaggerating all the all-ins protoss has and the viability of them. Sure you can 4gate, but it rarely works, you may call them viable when they are actually not. Should I call 2port banshee a viable all in?
I´d love for you to name those 8 viable all ins.
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On March 03 2012 07:34 SniXSniPe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:29 Iblis wrote:On March 03 2012 07:17 SniXSniPe wrote:
Feedback affects:
Medivacs
Ghosts
BCs
Thors
Ravens + PDD
Emp affects: Every protoss units shield Sentries High templars phenixes Mothership It basically damage any unit it hits, prevents spellcasters to cast any spell and unlike feedback it's in a zone. I really don't think balance suggestions should be done in this post... That's a stupid comparison. Both races have different units and the skills affect differently. The point being is EMP doesn't stop Protoss players from building Archons/Colossus/Motherships/sentries, now does it? How OFTEN do you see a Thor/Raven/or even a successful BC build in a late game TvP?
While I don't disagree with the premise that feedback counters too many higher tier units as a given, I do find two flaws in your argument.
1) EMP DOES largely counter sentries and is specifically a major contributing reason why sentry production is minimized in PvT lategame compositions. For the Archon, while EMP is not reason enough to never build them, they are not a highly desired unit in the first place and are often built as a way to utilize empty HTs or balance a gas-heacy economy. EMP being able to reduce them to 10 hp is plenty effective (and I've seen it end games).
2) Feedback countering Thors, BCs, and PDDs is more a problem with the fact that Terran units tend to get energy bars as bonuses, not with Feedback itself.
While I don't think Ravens or BCs need any real change, the Thor and PDD having their energy bars removed (along with the thors cannon ability) would be a meaningful buff to late-game TvP compositions that I can't see any problems with.
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On March 03 2012 08:03 Hakanfrog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:05 Recognizable wrote:On March 03 2012 07:00 xrapture wrote:On March 03 2012 05:46 Severedevil wrote:
I can only think of a few things I'm convinced really aren't OK in SC2 at the moment, and they're pretty minor:
-Carriers.
-Thor strike cannons.
-Raven Seeker Missile.
-Raven autoturret's attack not receiving upgrades from anything, to keep pace with armor.
-Hydras being weak, now that maps aren't teeny-tiny.
Overall, I'm very pleased with the improvements in Protoss early-game PvT, and I suspect clever counterattacks will be the simplest solution. Protoss seems to rely upon their ability to put every single attacking unit in one place due to warp-ins, but a couple Reapers/Hellions/Banshees can cheaply force a disproportionate amount of units to stay home and defend. A medivac can do a similar job, but not until you've got stim and a decent bio force, which leaves the window that current Protoss seem to be exploiting... Toss deal with harrass easiest out of all the races. They have static defense that hits air and ground without costing supply, and they can warp in units in response to anything. "Reapers/Hellions/Banshees can cheaply force a disproportionate amount of units to stay home and defend" well 2 stalkers is enough for reapers (not to mention if the terran builds more than 1 the toss already won the game), warp in is enough for helions, and banshee openings are pretty common but only do damage if the toss isn't prepared. Zerg and terran preemptively get spore crawlers and missle turrets nearly every game, yet I never see toss place a single cannon. These past couple months toss have been hardcore greedy, and there aren't many timings that can punish them. When we see a Terran defeat toss from early timings it's because he is absurdly better than the toss, aka marineking vs Huk/naniwa, polt vs hero, puma vs titan. Evenely matched, like today Sjow vs Tod, or Thorzain vs Grubby at MLG toss has the advantage in nearly all aspects of the game besides super early. Indeed, another problem in the TvP matchup is how there are almost zero viable all ins for terran. I can think of 2, marine scv all in, which any non greedy build can stop without having to be scouted, and 1-1-1, which any 1 gate FE crushes. However, on the other hand protoss has about 8+ viable all ins I can think off, and any of them will basically kill you if not prepared. This allows protoss to be super greedy and they are already taking 3rd at minute 6 whilst pressuring with 8+ gateways. Really scary stuff. It´s a problem that terran doesn´t have many viable all-ins?I don´t really mind all-ins, but some of them are just straight out cheesy. One does not go for 1-1-1 because you reacted to what the protoss does, it´s just a mindless all in. I think you are exaggerating all the all-ins protoss has and the viability of them. Sure you can 4gate, but it rarely works, you may call them viable when they are actually not. Should I call 2port banshee a viable all in? I´d love for you to name those 8 viable all ins.
4 gate, 5 gate zealot sentry, 3 gate robo, 3 gate stargate, 3 gate DT, 1 base collosus all in, 6 gate, 6 gate robo immortal all in, 8 gate zealot sentry, 2 base collosus all in. I even had some protoss throw a 8 gate zealot archon all in at me from 2 bases. The 2 base all ins are very retarded in a special way, but you have to play Terran to understand how idiotic they are. Seeing as how it's not possible most of the times to now if it's an all in. I've had games where I see 6 gates, he makes pylons close to my base, I pull 10/15 scv's with 3/4 bunkers. Afer 30 seconds nothing happens, I scan and see a fully saturated 3rd. Fuck yeah. Almost non off these all ins are reactive. 4 gate is actually extremely potent and should be used more by protoss on ladder, if well executed you just die if you don't have some sort of a wall in at your main and are slow to lift your natural. Protoss actually don't all in enough but it's because their lategame is so potent it's not really needed.
Just add in a fuckton off gates with chronoboost and you have an extremely powerfull all in.
Edit: I forgot to mention all the beautifull all ins you face on ladder where they have a warp prism and warp sentry's in your main, block your ramp and kill all your shit.
Another fun fact: It's actually impossible to FE on metalopolis on the KOR ladder.
Edit2: Shit forgot the 1 base blink stalker all in. Haha. Protoss has so many I sometimes forget some of them!
-Because of the all ins and because you need twice as good to be as a Protoss to win in lategame is why I quit playing this season.
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On March 03 2012 08:09 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 08:03 Hakanfrog wrote:On March 03 2012 07:05 Recognizable wrote:On March 03 2012 07:00 xrapture wrote:On March 03 2012 05:46 Severedevil wrote:
I can only think of a few things I'm convinced really aren't OK in SC2 at the moment, and they're pretty minor:
-Carriers.
-Thor strike cannons.
-Raven Seeker Missile.
-Raven autoturret's attack not receiving upgrades from anything, to keep pace with armor.
-Hydras being weak, now that maps aren't teeny-tiny.
Overall, I'm very pleased with the improvements in Protoss early-game PvT, and I suspect clever counterattacks will be the simplest solution. Protoss seems to rely upon their ability to put every single attacking unit in one place due to warp-ins, but a couple Reapers/Hellions/Banshees can cheaply force a disproportionate amount of units to stay home and defend. A medivac can do a similar job, but not until you've got stim and a decent bio force, which leaves the window that current Protoss seem to be exploiting... Toss deal with harrass easiest out of all the races. They have static defense that hits air and ground without costing supply, and they can warp in units in response to anything. "Reapers/Hellions/Banshees can cheaply force a disproportionate amount of units to stay home and defend" well 2 stalkers is enough for reapers (not to mention if the terran builds more than 1 the toss already won the game), warp in is enough for helions, and banshee openings are pretty common but only do damage if the toss isn't prepared. Zerg and terran preemptively get spore crawlers and missle turrets nearly every game, yet I never see toss place a single cannon. These past couple months toss have been hardcore greedy, and there aren't many timings that can punish them. When we see a Terran defeat toss from early timings it's because he is absurdly better than the toss, aka marineking vs Huk/naniwa, polt vs hero, puma vs titan. Evenely matched, like today Sjow vs Tod, or Thorzain vs Grubby at MLG toss has the advantage in nearly all aspects of the game besides super early. Indeed, another problem in the TvP matchup is how there are almost zero viable all ins for terran. I can think of 2, marine scv all in, which any non greedy build can stop without having to be scouted, and 1-1-1, which any 1 gate FE crushes. However, on the other hand protoss has about 8+ viable all ins I can think off, and any of them will basically kill you if not prepared. This allows protoss to be super greedy and they are already taking 3rd at minute 6 whilst pressuring with 8+ gateways. Really scary stuff. It´s a problem that terran doesn´t have many viable all-ins?I don´t really mind all-ins, but some of them are just straight out cheesy. One does not go for 1-1-1 because you reacted to what the protoss does, it´s just a mindless all in. I think you are exaggerating all the all-ins protoss has and the viability of them. Sure you can 4gate, but it rarely works, you may call them viable when they are actually not. Should I call 2port banshee a viable all in? I´d love for you to name those 8 viable all ins. 4 gate, 5 gate zealot sentry, 3 gate robo, 3 gate stargate, 3 gate DT, 1 base collosus all in, 6 gate, 6 gate robo immortal all in, 8 gate zealot sentry, 2 base collosus all in. I even had some protoss throw a 8 gate zealot archon all in at me from 2 bases. The 2 base all ins are very retarded in a special way, but you have to play Terran to understand how idiotic they are. Seeing as how it's not possible most of the times to now if it's an all in. I've had games where I see 6 gates, he makes pylons close to my base, I pull 10/15 scv's with 3/4 bunkers. Afer 30 seconds nothing happens, I scan and see a fully saturated 3rd. Fuck yeah. Almost non off these all ins are reactive. 4 gate is actually extremely potent and should be used more by protoss on ladder, if well executed you just die if you don't have some sort of a wall in at your main and are slow to lift your natural. Protoss actually don't all in enough but it's because their lategame is so potent it's not really needed. Just add in a fuckton off gates with chronoboost and you have an extremely powerfull all in.
I´m speaking of pro play here, on ladder everything is viable.
3gate DT I never see as an all-in you use it to expand, 1 base collosus all in is not viable same goes for 3gate robo. 6gate and 8gate is same thing (It´s like saying 1-1-1 cloaked banshee and 1-1-1 without cloak and raven instead are different all ins, in which case your argument doesn´t hold). 2 base collosi is viable, but I can´t remember the last time I saw it work between two top players.
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On March 02 2012 20:51 Elp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 18:27 HavocGG wrote:
The korean chart's never been very balanced mainly due to how low the amount of games played is compared to international, keep that in mind guys.
Korean : 363 games
International : 2208 games The korean statistics do mean something, you just have to take note of the standard deviation. The deviation is higher due to the smaller sample size, but if you compare the ZvP stats with the stats from last month you see a decent shift that goes beyond the margin of error. But as far as i know the error bars that are shown in the graphs should be accompanied by a confidence level, right? That seems to be missing.
The error bars are one standard deviation, so about 68% confidence that the "real" winrate lies within them.
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EPT
