EPTGSL march code S seeds discussion - Page 15
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Scribble
2077 Posts
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Zooper31
United States5713 Posts
On February 27 2012 10:08 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Stephano not accepting could be a good thing, depending on how Gom wants to handle the situation. Think about it; if he accepts, they get a high-profile foreign player. If he doesn't, they have the opportunity to offer to that to whoever they want with the cover of 'Stephano declined and we had to find a replacement.' That justification can be used to invite damn near anyone. Edit to cover your edit: You misunderstand. It's not about being well-known. Huk and Idra have been in GSL before. They've had runs, they've gotten knocked out early... it's fair to say they have a lot of history with that particular tournament. Stephano, though... He's clearly very skilled. He's also not especially respectful of Korea's place as the pinnacle of Starcraft. He's on record saying that he's not interested in going back there because he learned everything he could and can learn more in Europe. He comes across as a pretty arrogant guy (IMO) and that's an angle that can create a TON of drama and hype for GSL. He'd be new, he'd be the bad boy, the guy every Korean wants to take out, and he's the best foreign player who hasn't already competed and lost. That's a situation that creates drama and hype, which will turn into viewership. And again. If he declines, then GSL can invite Taeja (or whoever) and when everyone goes "OMG TAEJA? WHY TAEJA?", they can say "well, Stephano declined and we had to find a substitute on short notice. That meant we had to invite a Korean and Taeja was the best choice." Or whatever justification for whoever they need. Could be used to provide cover for a potentially controversial invite. Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On February 27 2012 13:36 Zooper31 wrote: Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament. Umm I have some bad news for you, http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1996_Stephano Unless you meant " in 2012 " then sure, if we're only talking major LAN's. ( ps. by no means am I a stephano fanboy, I just hate when people give wrong information ) | ||
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MuseMike
United States1339 Posts
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Sackings
Canada457 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
But it is also necessary for the long term benefit of the sport. When you isolate the foreign and Korean scenes, the skill gap only grows until we have a BW situation, where a random Korean B-teamer can utterly outplay the best players of the foreigner scene. Why is that an issue? Shouldn't the best players win? Yes, but it weakens the connection between the fans and the players. When most Korean players do not speak English, and thus have very little direct interaction with fans. The fanbase of SC2 is spread out all over the world, whereas the BW fanbase is now concentrated in Korea. It's hard as a fan to connect with someone who does not speak the same langauge as you and comes from a whole different cultural background. SC2, if it wants to survive, needs to keep that international fanbase going strong. To be frank, I doubt SC2's Korean fanbase is enough to sustain the GSL, especially when BW is so much more popular. Foreigner seeds bring in more viewers, because people love these ideals of "diversity" and the "underdog" foreigner. The GSL organizers know this. They gave seeds to Sen and Idra because these two players can bring in viewers. If it were only based off of foreign tournament results, Hero and Puma would have gotten the seeds. That is why I am a bit skeptical that Polt will get the seed, even though he has clearly earned it. Furthermore, imagine you are a high level foreign progamer. You practice hours each day, but you still barely make enough to live off of, if you make enough to live off of. You expect them to move all the way to Korea to participate in the Code A qualifiers? Some players do, such as Jinro and carn, and I applaud them for their efforts, but they have spent so much time for so little return. Most players will not. It's basically a single elimination tournament that is nevertheless still very stacked, and if you mess up, it's another 2 months before the next one comes around. We as a community lament the skill gap between foreign players and the Koreans, yet we want our players to earn their spots at the top. That would be nice, and I would love to see it. But I do not think that will happen unless we give the foreign pros seeds. It's a necessary evil in my opinion. | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On February 27 2012 13:36 Zooper31 wrote: Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament. That's also where you're objectively wrong. He's won: SHOUTCRAFT, beating Thorzain and Grubby. IPL's UK qualifier, beating Grubby, DreAm, Sase and TAiLS. ESWC 2011, beating Grubby, MaNa and MarineKingPrime among others. IPL 3, beating Socke, Revival, Puzzle and MMA in qualifiers and HuK, Boxer, viOLet, Inori, TheSTC and Lucky, among others, in the main tournament. He also came second at Assembly, beating PuMa, MaNa, NightEnd, Happy and ReaL. So whether you're a fan or not (I'm really not) it's impossible to deny that he's a damned good player with solid results. | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
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blamekilly
466 Posts
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Neelia
Germany599 Posts
On February 27 2012 10:21 yawnoC wrote: Polt and DeMusliM. Ret or Naniwa are also options. The only strong player (Code A-S level) DeMusliM has beaten @MLG Winter Arena was Nestea oO I can't see how this qualifies him as a Code S invite lol. He'll prolly get a Code A/Up-Down Spot but please no Code S spot >_< On February 26 2012 22:09 Blennd wrote: You realize naniwa was in the same situation as his opponents in both of those situations, right? Oh? Quantic/Dignitas have coaches who analyse potential weakneses in they play of upcoming opponents? Good to know. For a Tournament like MLG/IEM/NASL/IPL it's imo more important to be solid all around as you usually have not very much time to prepare and play against lots of different players/playstyles. By looking at the results of the players who were seeded into Code A/S I think it's safe to say that most if not all of them are much worse in preparing for an specific match/player than their korean counterparts. This is probably due to not having teamhouses with coaches and the fact that it's not that important in most high profile foreign tournaments. | ||
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LeLfe
France3160 Posts
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
On February 28 2012 18:12 LeLfe wrote: Polt and PuMa for code S and foreigners for code A, Koreans have a better shot not to look bad. Sorry, but i don't think PuMa has what it takes to make anything resembling an impressive showing in Code S. Polt i agree with. | ||
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flakmonkey
Australia254 Posts
On February 27 2012 13:36 Zooper31 wrote: Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament. You couldn't be more wrong! He's probably won the most tournaments (excluding smaller online cups) out of any foreigner. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On February 27 2012 12:16 Fionn wrote: Koreans can qualify the normal way? SO CAN FOREIGNERS. It's a Korean tournament. It shouldn't be a Korean's fault if they kick ass at an international tournament and rack up impressive wins that because they are Korean they can't get a seed. Naniwa and Huk both live in Korea. Huk can qualify the normal way. So can Naniwa. We need to make pro gaming a viable career, and many pros don't have the means to travel to Korea for the qualifiers. For a Korean player it can be as simple as taking a day playing in the qualifiers a bus ride away, whereas a foreign pro needs to arrange transportation and lodging, as well as possibly visas to do the same. Yes, Huk and Naniwa live in Korea but they aren't the only pros who have a shot at the seed. Dimaga and Kas have had solid results, but you can't expect them to go to Korea for the Code A prelims (even the Code A prize money would barely cover their costs). Finally, we should not be miserly towards foreigners when giving out these seeds just because Sen and idra underperformed. They are a very small sample size. The new system has been out only for 1 season thus far, don't be so quick to demand changes. Wait and see | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On February 28 2012 18:15 flakmonkey wrote: You couldn't be more wrong! He's probably won the most tournaments (excluding smaller online cups) out of any foreigner. Probably troll or something, Stephano has earned most prizemoney out of any foreigner and is currently one of the best also. -_- | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
Kas, Stephano, or Sen are good candidates. Maybe nerchio if he would stop sucking so hard at lan events | ||
Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
On February 27 2012 13:36 Zooper31 wrote: Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament. ipl3 was a pretty big tournament polt deserves it more than anyone, though. i really hope he gets it. marineking needs one if he somehow doesnt beat killer | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On February 29 2012 19:29 iky43210 wrote: wasted to give to naniwa, give it to someone who actually stands a chance Kas, Stephano, or Sen are good candidates. Maybe nerchio if he would stop sucking so hard at lan events You are kidding right? Of all of those names only Stephano has a better win record against koreans. | ||
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