|
Well, the OP's gold example is just dumb - Terran would roflstomp everyone up until patch 1.4.3, then terran would be at a serious disadvantage after 1.4.3 (as everyone's general income would be much closer to the muling rate of blue minerals, while terran is balanced around having a greater income while being 6-7 workers behind).
Races are different, it's not like soccer or footy where the teams have identical options and abilities.
Furthermore, the metagame is SO volatile and shifting so fast, players need and want some stability, and the maps provide this. When there aren't five different openings viable for every map for every race, then it's time to spice things up.
I mean can you imagine if they added no-ramp mains in the current metagame? Lollions ftw...
|
On February 26 2012 08:46 DaemonX wrote: Well, the OP's gold example is just dumb - Terran would roflstomp everyone up until patch 1.4.3, then terran would be at a serious disadvantage after 1.4.3 (as everyone's general income would be much closer to the muling rate of blue minerals, while terran is balanced around having a greater income while being 6-7 workers behind).
Races are different, it's not like soccer or footy where the teams have identical options and abilities.
Furthermore, the metagame is SO volatile and shifting so fast, players need and want some stability, and the maps provide this. When there aren't five different openings viable for every map for every race, then it's time to spice things up.
I mean can you imagine if they added no-ramp mains in the current metagame? Lollions ftw... Besides that every PvP will turn into 4Gate vs. 4Gate again.
|
If you want to witness the genius of the SC2 editor then you have to play custom maps. No map that has a ridiculous theme or gimmick to it will ever be used in Ladder or in Tournaments.
|
United Kingdom20170 Posts
I mean can you imagine if they added no-ramp mains in the current metagame? Lollions ftw...
You mean like Tal'darim Altar or Bel'shir Beach?
|
On February 26 2012 09:38 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote + I mean can you imagine if they added no-ramp mains in the current metagame? Lollions ftw... You mean like Tal'darim Altar or Bel'shir Beach? The WORST PvP maps in existence, yes.
|
I think there is certainly scope for more creative maps. A lot of tournaments feature 4 player maps, why not have large maps specifically for 1v1?
Just some ideas, imagine a kind of 2 player terminus with 4 or 5 bases along the top and bottom with one central access point by ground and a central platform which features only gold bases.
How about more maps based on a kind of U shape with opponents starting top/bottom right or bottom right/left that feature 1 gold base farthest away from each starting location.
Or a 2 player map based on a Z, M or A shape, a D or B shape where the straight line is blocked by rocks. K, 8, 0 and so on, simply imagine different shapes.
There are also possibilities for say 5th bases with only gold minerals and no vespene geysers or no minerals and 4 geysers.
Also as we can set map preferences the ladder could include more varied maps more often or even have a box to tick to agree to play on experimental maps.
I certainly look forward to possibilities in the future.
|
On February 26 2012 07:03 RaiKageRyu wrote: People need to stop confusing creativity with gimmicky. You're like asking for special trials for them to go through in a game show.
this!! and it is pretty obvious that some one (or group of people) in the blizzard design team is confused by that too.
|
I was wondering... Would a map be gimmicky if all other maps are similar to it?
I was thinking that perhaps Blizzard could do themed ladder seasons, where one season the ladder would be made up of all island maps. You wouldn't "waste" time learning island builds because it would be "standard" play during that season. Or perhaps in another season, all the destructible rocks are replaced by creeps (hybrid units?). It could even be tested in the PTR so that the kinks will be ironed out before it goes live.
|
On February 26 2012 09:56 Eternal Dalek wrote: I was wondering... Would a map be gimmicky if all other maps are similar to it?
I was thinking that perhaps Blizzard could do themed ladder seasons, where one season the ladder would be made up of all island maps. You wouldn't "waste" time learning island builds because it would be "standard" play during that season. Or perhaps in another season, all the destructible rocks are replaced by creeps (hybrid units?). It could even be tested in the PTR so that the kinks will be ironed out before it goes live. Big flaw: if all other maps would be similar this would have to also involve current tournament maps.
Back when the ladder was shit and we thought that Xel'Naga had a long rush distance we didn't see that the tournament maps embraced that; in fact it appeared like the mapping community went the completely opposite way with maps like Crevasse, Tal'Darim Altar and Terminus.
|
"Creative" maps such as Desert Oasis were not appreciated and were generally vetoed because you have one strategy for every other map, and then you have to design one that's drastically different for these kinds of maps you're suggesting
|
On February 26 2012 08:44 Diamond wrote: To sum up this whole thread and answer it.
Players don't play maps not in tournaments. Tournaments don't use non standard maps. Thus there is no point to making non standard maps.
/End
theres nothing more to explain regarding the op than this
|
On February 26 2012 07:12 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 07:05 FeyFey wrote: blizzard adding some innovation to maps often, but not adding something like capturable sensor towers or neutral bunkers etc.
Neutral armies sounds interesting though If you want to expand you need to defeat the bunker placed there instead of rocks. Anyway, for the people saying that this means gimmicky you are just to caught in the routine of the maps.And I think the reason I think this is because I personally don't see maps as in a boxing ring, but more as an custom environment where athletes run/parkour. And creative maps doesn't mean that bad players can win using something strange. Not necessary. I can say exactly the opposite where bad players learn by heart builds and apply them on maps mindlessly.
I could think of 50 counter analogies to that.
Anyway 90% of the ideas suggested here will be stupid because they deride from the skill factor required to play the game
|
That depends on your definition of 'standard maps' It is all based around ease of taking and defending expansions. Many maps are 4 player with relatively easy to take naturals. What would be wrong with large 2 player maps that have say 4 easy to take and defend bases?
|
keeping balance and being creative is very difficult. even with that said, i do agree, more creativity would be nice.
|
Because balance is a million times more important than creativity.
|
The lack of creativity is because Blizzard fucked up zerg. They designed Zerg to be the faster race with weaker units overall. The problem with that is that Zerg is absolutely horrible in compison to Terran and Protoss in terms of dealing with impassable terrain both in terms of traversing around or over it and using it to their advantage in an engagement. As a result any attempts at creating an innovative new map with these kinds of features generally means Zerg gets fucked and the map is not viable for balance reasons.
This is still an issue on several maps such as Antiga Shipyard in ZvT when your main is closest to the Terran's third. Your lings may not be as good as marines in large numbers but your speed is meant to make up for it. But it doesn't mean shit if the Terran can get from his third to your main with medivacs faster than you can get from your third to your main or to his third from your main. Assumptions made about how the races are meant to operate in terms of balance completely break down.
Edit: the obvious continuation of this problem is that maps tend to be very bland as result of attempting to balance for these issues.
|
Why even restrict maps to clearly defined 'bases' with half circle mineral patches around them? There are any number of ways to distribute space and resources around the map. The key thing the maps need to provide is defenders advantage for all three races, but there are other ways you could do that.
It IS a chicken and an egg problem -- if tournaments don't use them, players will never play on them. But we're in an era where a single person can run a decent tournament. If, say, TotalBiscuit decided on a whim to feature a new, radically different map in his tournament it might be possible to get some traction.
|
Because creating amazingly new, creative maps that are still balanced is very difficult. I've tested lots of maps that had all kinds of strange shit on them that were interesting, but like the vast majority never panned out beyond the alpha version.
|
Also, the editor (and just the game itself) doesn't let you have several layers of terrain. The high ground can only be 2 steps higher than the lowest ground.
|
I think the colosus and reaper really hurt the maps because it forces most of the main to be an island or some sorts. Plus with most of the mains being an island i think it makes the banshee (flying cloaked) op. Just my opinon though
|
|
|
|