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On February 21 2012 22:48 LaughingTulkas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 22:40 Hider wrote:
What is QXC argument for "thinking about the game" for 4-5 hours and only play 4-5 hours?
Does koreans really do that? And even if that is true, did they only play 4-5 hours when they got their mechanical skills up to a decent level through BW?
I think this is a bad mentality, most ppl like to watch games/discuss strategy rather than laddering. IMO 99% of all players would benefit more by playing and less by "studying".
99% of players aren't pro players, and therefore have very bad mechanics. So in that case you're right. I kind of think that qxc was more specifically talking about pro players though. Just a guess.
Well 99% of foreign players who want to get good (this excludes most bronze-diamond players, who mostly play for fun). But even pro gamers, why would they benefit more by playing "only 4-5 hours"? Whats the advantage compared to 8-10 hours? You still have a lot of time to think about the game, you can still watch like 20 reps/day, watch GSL vods and so on. You don't need to set time aside to think about the game. This is all you do when your a pro game, you think about sc2, because thats basically your life. Maybe if we look at pro gamers (only) the number isn't 99%, but I still think 80-90% of foreign "pro players" would benefit by playing more.
But where does that number come from? It seems absolutely random. From a logical perspective it makes little sense, and he used no real life exampels to back up his claim.
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gotta love qxc, a proper nerd, knows his shit, foreigners are horrible
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It's so interesting to listen to QXC - such an intelligent guy!
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I love qxc's interviews, another great interview from Thorin, really well done.
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On February 21 2012 22:40 Hider wrote:
What is QXC argument for "thinking about the game" for 4-5 hours and only play 4-5 hours?
Does koreans really do that? And even if that is true, did they only play 4-5 hours when they got their mechanical skills up to a decent level through BW?
I think this is a bad mentality, most ppl like to watch games/discuss strategy rather than laddering. IMO 99% of all players would benefit more by playing and less by "studying".
Compare it to real sports. Do you really think Football or Soccer player only kick balls?
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No, they think what to improve upon and then try to kick the ball better/harder/faster.
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He speaks like Liquid'Nony! ;p
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On February 21 2012 23:17 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 22:40 Hider wrote:
What is QXC argument for "thinking about the game" for 4-5 hours and only play 4-5 hours?
Does koreans really do that? And even if that is true, did they only play 4-5 hours when they got their mechanical skills up to a decent level through BW?
I think this is a bad mentality, most ppl like to watch games/discuss strategy rather than laddering. IMO 99% of all players would benefit more by playing and less by "studying".
Compare it to real sports. Do you really think Football or Soccer player only kick balls?
Not comparable.
But if you could practice 100 freekicks a day instead of 50 you would most likely be better. Sure there is a optimal amount, but why is that 4-5 hours for sc2? Just seems like he is pulling a number of his ass, and this is gonna hurt a lot of players who now with good consicence can play less ladder games.
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thorin interviews deserve way more love.
gj again thorin
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On February 21 2012 23:38 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 23:17 bluQ wrote:On February 21 2012 22:40 Hider wrote:
What is QXC argument for "thinking about the game" for 4-5 hours and only play 4-5 hours?
Does koreans really do that? And even if that is true, did they only play 4-5 hours when they got their mechanical skills up to a decent level through BW?
I think this is a bad mentality, most ppl like to watch games/discuss strategy rather than laddering. IMO 99% of all players would benefit more by playing and less by "studying".
Compare it to real sports. Do you really think Football or Soccer player only kick balls? Not comparable. But if you could practice 100 freekicks a day instead of 50 you would most likely be better. Sure there is a optimal amount, but why is that 4-5 hours for sc2? Just seems like he is pulling a number of his ass, and this is gonna hurt a lot of players who now with good consicence can play less ladder games.
For instance, in American Football, professional players devote only 3-4 hours of practice per day, but are expected to put in somewhere close to 5-6 hours per day on film study, breaking down what their opponents are going to do, their opponents' tendencies (down to very minute details such as body posture that might give away that split second break), what their team is going to do, how to execute it (again, down to minute details such as possibly shifting a foot right before a snap just to make someone make the wrong read), examination of their own plays, figuring out how to remove errors, et cetera.
Yes, the players that don't make much improvement are considered to have a bad work ethic, but they have a bad work ethic in both physical practice as well as mental learning. The idea is that obviously American Football is a physical sport, and so putting together a lot of physical practice induces significant unnecessary wear and tear over the season, plus so much of game is played mentally that you need all that film study. The latter, thus, makes the former (the physical practice) much more effective, as you know exactly what to work on, and so your practice is geared precisely toward figuring that out.
With your analogy, is it better to kick the ball 100 times, or spend several hours per day analyzing every kick, right down to the milliseconds, analyzing your trajectory toward the ball (and how it might shift the goalkeeper in a direction), and then only kick it 50 times but know exactly the type of kick you're practicing, so that you spend all 50 kicks trying to perfect a very specific kick?
Edit:
It's interesting because qxc may not know this but long-time followers of the BW scene generally do: we have seen countless clips of pro-gaming teams gathering around one player's monitor watching their player. They don't just sit there grinding games for hours. We know for a fact that they discuss builds. We know they try out very specific timings over and over again to try to trick people out. We know all this. Yet somehow there's this prevailing notion that Korean players just laddergrind all day and magically get better.
Remember when Nony went to the estro house? He mentioned they actually broke down his game and made him re-learn the game because he'd picked up such bad habits. He re-learned the game from the fundamentals (hotkeying, etc.) and basically learned how to practice. You don't do that by just playing. You do that by sitting back, analyzing play, and thinking.
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On February 21 2012 22:40 Hider wrote:
What is QXC argument for "thinking about the game" for 4-5 hours and only play 4-5 hours?
Does koreans really do that? And even if that is true, did they only play 4-5 hours when they got their mechanical skills up to a decent level through BW?
I think this is a bad mentality, most ppl like to watch games/discuss strategy rather than laddering. IMO 99% of all players would benefit more by playing and less by "studying".
progamers are the 1% of players that benefit from studying 
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On February 21 2012 23:38 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 23:17 bluQ wrote:On February 21 2012 22:40 Hider wrote:
What is QXC argument for "thinking about the game" for 4-5 hours and only play 4-5 hours?
Does koreans really do that? And even if that is true, did they only play 4-5 hours when they got their mechanical skills up to a decent level through BW?
I think this is a bad mentality, most ppl like to watch games/discuss strategy rather than laddering. IMO 99% of all players would benefit more by playing and less by "studying".
Compare it to real sports. Do you really think Football or Soccer player only kick balls? Not comparable. But if you could practice 100 freekicks a day instead of 50 you would most likely be better. Sure there is a optimal amount, but why is that 4-5 hours for sc2? Just seems like he is pulling a number of his ass, and this is gonna hurt a lot of players who now with good consicence can play less ladder games.
I think the point he was trying to get across is that pro players should figure out themselves what system works for them, and that part of the practise should be thinking about the game rather than playing. The numbers he mentioned are just a benchmark to illustrate the idea behind them.
Of course if you're in bronze/silver league, playing the game more will be more efficient for your improvement than thinking about the game; but obviously this was specficially aimed at pro players who already are sufficient at the game's basics.
Think of it as an experience point curve in an MMO alongside gearing up your character; at first you're going to level up and get stronger faster by just getting experience points, but once you get closer to the level cap you are going to need to work more on gear than on level to get stronger; the experience points in this case would be the mechanics and basics of a player where the pro players have already reached or are close to reaching the "level cap" now it's more efficient to get better faster if they work on thinking about different aspects of the game; which would be the gearing up part in the MMO analogy.
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I always love QXC. Favorite player by far. his mindset is just amazing. He is going to be a monster
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On February 21 2012 23:38 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 23:17 bluQ wrote:On February 21 2012 22:40 Hider wrote:
What is QXC argument for "thinking about the game" for 4-5 hours and only play 4-5 hours?
Does koreans really do that? And even if that is true, did they only play 4-5 hours when they got their mechanical skills up to a decent level through BW?
I think this is a bad mentality, most ppl like to watch games/discuss strategy rather than laddering. IMO 99% of all players would benefit more by playing and less by "studying".
Compare it to real sports. Do you really think Football or Soccer player only kick balls? Not comparable. But if you could practice 100 freekicks a day instead of 50 you would most likely be better. Sure there is a optimal amount, but why is that 4-5 hours for sc2? Just seems like he is pulling a number of his ass, and this is gonna hurt a lot of players who now with good consicence can play less ladder games.
but 50 freekicks that are better prepared/thought out are better than 100 freekicks where you don't think about what you're doing - that is what QXC is saying, fix and optimise your learning system don't just grind games
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Yet another amazing interview from you, Thorin! I'm always happy when I see a new 1on1 on SK-gaming. They never disappoint.
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Is anyone else facing major issues loading this file. Why can't they put it up on youtube for easy viewing :/
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Video doesn't play - just sits loading at "00".
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This is a nice series.
Thanks SK. <3
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On February 22 2012 00:27 Kage wrote:
Is anyone else facing major issues loading this file. Why can't they put it up on youtube for easy viewing :/
Yeah my video loads really slowly or not at all. sadly its usually always like this on the sight and I do with they had an alternate link that was with youtube 
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wish i could watch but as usual the video doesnt load. shame, Thorin is an amazing journalist.. I wish people could have better access to the content he produces
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EPT
