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On February 22 2012 04:55 Berailfor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 04:32 eNtitY~ wrote:On February 22 2012 04:21 everdrone wrote:![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/hOJ3) they just add new option for replays, EPM = all clicks, APM = only effective clicks No it should be the other way around. E stands for "Effective" and they said this on the Situation Report: "After hearing a lot of feedback from both sides, we decided to bring back classic APM, which will track all actions issued by the player. Meanwhile, EPM (effective actions per minute) will continue to track actual commands as it did prior to patch 1.4.3" They called it CPM. Commands per minute. Clearly they did some last minute changes. Go do some testing to see which is which. The guy at the top said his EPM was higher. So it might be APM is blizzards version and EPM is the old APM
lol I think they messed up. Rofl my apm is like 69 or w/e while my eapm is 250 lol silly blizzard messing that up xD.
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On February 22 2012 04:55 Berailfor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 04:32 eNtitY~ wrote:On February 22 2012 04:21 everdrone wrote:they just add new option for replays, EPM = all clicks, APM = only effective clicks No it should be the other way around. E stands for "Effective" and they said this on the Situation Report: "After hearing a lot of feedback from both sides, we decided to bring back classic APM, which will track all actions issued by the player. Meanwhile, EPM (effective actions per minute) will continue to track actual commands as it did prior to patch 1.4.3" They called it CPM. Commands per minute. Clearly they did some last minute changes. Go do some testing to see which is which. The guy at the top said his EPM was higher. So it might be APM is blizzards version and EPM is the old APM
No they called it EPM, I'm looking at it right now. I think the guy above me is right, they probably mixed them up since EPM would be Effective Actions per Minute.
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On February 22 2012 04:42 TheDraken wrote:
for as good as an on-demand giant detection crop circle is, i think the price of forgoing some MULEs entirely to save energy is more than reasonable. my god. you do realize you have ravens right?
You realize that Scan is literally infinity times faster than Raven speed, right? And Orbitals have 11 times the HP. And you can scan anywhere. And it costs no gas. And it scans *ahead* of your army instead of slightly behind it.
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On February 22 2012 04:35 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 04:17 FeyFey wrote:
i will miss my vessel replacement. emp and radiation in a weaker form, sounded perfect for the ghost, having one spell vs each opposing race. I mean infestors counter every unit except siege tanks and ghosts. (how to beat seeker ... fungal the incoming raven, neural the raven (seeker range 6/neural range 7)). HTs conter almost every terran unit (feedback on high hp units, as their channelig abilities can be stopped with it), except tank and fight even with ghosts if you count in the archon.
So i am curious why the ghost suddenly is overpowered, doing the same as the other spellcasters but not as effective, but with some added sneaky skills.
I mean i never used the ghost to conter broodlords or mutas, used them to kill the infestors as the rest is easy to deal with for terran, especially since if the zerg lets you kill ultras with ghosts, he deserves to lose ... (didn't even lose ultras against the recent scroll sniping that became slightly more popular ..., lost some broodlords to it though, but using the energy of 10 ghosts to get 2 broodlords is not effective imo (prepatch still)). Well i will play zerg for some time and hope i will still meet some ghost players that try to snipe broodlords, will be funny to see the ranting. But i doubt blizzard would notice this, and in the gsl i guess ghosts would still work, seeing the zergs there (no offense they would still whipe the floor with me using their mouse only, but in terms of unit use ... ) , atleast on the non ultra maps.
Anyway tvz just became a mirror of tvp. Ghosts have to stop the casters or your army is doomed, but they are perfect at doing so. Lets welcome the viking marauders combination in tvz. Play zerg and protoss either way, you train 2 matchups for the price of one. (one reason why the gsl is so terran dominant, so this change will play in their favor) "the rest is easy to deal with for terran"... and people wonder why we want to make things harder for terran? this game isn't supposed to be easy. i don't think people understand the frustration that is the ghost, from the zerg perspective. zerg has two methods of detection. overseer and infestor. the terran player emp's my infestors and snipes my overseers to shit. and to add insult to injury he then enjoys himself sniping my broodlords, and i can't even fucking see them to fight back. it would be different if my detection wasn't right fucking there to kill, or if invisible ghosts didn't have a huge effect against my lords. so blizz decided to change one of those two, and has now made your invisible ghosts less of an issue after you take out my detection. for once you actually have to decide if ghosts are worth making. how horrible.
Make things harder? Hate to break it to you buddy, but after 10 minutes Zerg gets way fucking easier than terran does. Trying to do multipronged drops to stay in the game, and having to micro the battles way better to come out on top. And then once Zerg gets brood/infestor they just amove the broods and fungal all the shit that gets in the way. Besides, in a lategame army how hard is it to get multiple overseers? Is the terran really gonna waste precious energy (cloak costs energy too you know) to snipe overseers when you have 10+ broodlords and a bunch of infestors? please.
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On February 22 2012 05:05 IMoperator wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 04:35 TheDraken wrote:On February 22 2012 04:17 FeyFey wrote:
i will miss my vessel replacement. emp and radiation in a weaker form, sounded perfect for the ghost, having one spell vs each opposing race. I mean infestors counter every unit except siege tanks and ghosts. (how to beat seeker ... fungal the incoming raven, neural the raven (seeker range 6/neural range 7)). HTs conter almost every terran unit (feedback on high hp units, as their channelig abilities can be stopped with it), except tank and fight even with ghosts if you count in the archon.
So i am curious why the ghost suddenly is overpowered, doing the same as the other spellcasters but not as effective, but with some added sneaky skills.
I mean i never used the ghost to conter broodlords or mutas, used them to kill the infestors as the rest is easy to deal with for terran, especially since if the zerg lets you kill ultras with ghosts, he deserves to lose ... (didn't even lose ultras against the recent scroll sniping that became slightly more popular ..., lost some broodlords to it though, but using the energy of 10 ghosts to get 2 broodlords is not effective imo (prepatch still)). Well i will play zerg for some time and hope i will still meet some ghost players that try to snipe broodlords, will be funny to see the ranting. But i doubt blizzard would notice this, and in the gsl i guess ghosts would still work, seeing the zergs there (no offense they would still whipe the floor with me using their mouse only, but in terms of unit use ... ) , atleast on the non ultra maps.
Anyway tvz just became a mirror of tvp. Ghosts have to stop the casters or your army is doomed, but they are perfect at doing so. Lets welcome the viking marauders combination in tvz. Play zerg and protoss either way, you train 2 matchups for the price of one. (one reason why the gsl is so terran dominant, so this change will play in their favor) "the rest is easy to deal with for terran"... and people wonder why we want to make things harder for terran? this game isn't supposed to be easy. i don't think people understand the frustration that is the ghost, from the zerg perspective. zerg has two methods of detection. overseer and infestor. the terran player emp's my infestors and snipes my overseers to shit. and to add insult to injury he then enjoys himself sniping my broodlords, and i can't even fucking see them to fight back. it would be different if my detection wasn't right fucking there to kill, or if invisible ghosts didn't have a huge effect against my lords. so blizz decided to change one of those two, and has now made your invisible ghosts less of an issue after you take out my detection. for once you actually have to decide if ghosts are worth making. how horrible. Make things harder? Hate to break it to you buddy, but after 10 minutes Zerg gets way fucking easier than terran does. Trying to do multipronged drops to stay in the game, and having to micro the battles way better to come out on top. And then once Zerg gets brood/infestor they just amove the broods and fungal all the shit that gets in the way. Besides, in a lategame army how hard is it to get multiple overseers? Is the terran really gonna waste precious energy (cloak costs energy too you know) to snipe overseers when you have 10+ broodlords and a bunch of infestors? please.
Oh look, an outrageous claim with no evidence to back it up!
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On February 22 2012 04:51 BrodiaQ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 04:17 FeyFey wrote:
i will miss my vessel replacement. emp and radiation in a weaker form, sounded perfect for the ghost, having one spell vs each opposing race. I mean infestors counter every unit except siege tanks and ghosts. (how to beat seeker ... fungal the incoming raven, neural the raven (seeker range 6/neural range 7)). HTs conter almost every terran unit (feedback on high hp units, as their channelig abilities can be stopped with it), except tank and fight even with ghosts if you count in the archon.
So i am curious why the ghost suddenly is overpowered, doing the same as the other spellcasters but not as effective, but with some added sneaky skills.
I mean i never used the ghost to conter broodlords or ultras, used them to kill the infestors as the rest is easy to deal with for terran, especially since if the zerg lets you kill ultras with ghosts, he deserves to lose ... (didn't even lose ultras against the recent scroll sniping that became slightly more popular ..., lost some broodlords to it though, but using the energy of 10 ghosts to get 2 broodlords is not effective imo (prepatch still)). Well i will play zerg for some time and hope i will still meet some ghost players that try to snipe broodlords, will be funny to see the ranting. But i doubt blizzard would notice this, and in the gsl i guess ghosts would still work, seeing the zergs there (no offense they would still whipe the floor with me using their mouse only, but in terms of unit use ... ) , atleast on the non ultra maps.
Anyway tvz just became a mirror of tvp. Ghosts have to stop the casters or your army is doomed, but they are perfect at doing so. Lets welcome the viking marauders combination in tvz. Play zerg and protoss either way, you train 2 matchups for the price of one. (one reason why the gsl is so terran dominant, so this change will play in their favor) There is so many things in this post that I'm saying wtf to that I don't know where to begin. Infestors don't counter every unit. They give you the ability to deal with most units if your control in comparison to your opponents control is good enough. Have you ever seen a late game tvz where the terran has 10+ ghosts? If prepatch you were playing late game tvz without ghosts I think you made a big mistake, ultras, broodlords, and infestors all got demolished once you had enough ghosts o the field. Broodlords have 225 health. Snipe pre-patch did 45 damage ignoring armor at a cost of 25 energy. With zergs health regeneration is would take 6 snipes to kill a broodlord. So a ghost with 150 energy can kill a broodlord pretty quickly pre-patch. Which makes perfect sense, why should Zerg's ultimate tier three siege unit be able to beat a terrans cheaper tier two unit? I don't understand how you can't see how wrong that is. It certainly didn't take ten ghost to kill two broodlords. I don't understand how a ghost sniping an ultra makes the zerg bad and deserve to lose. What is the zerg suppose to keep the ultras out of ghost range? Not sure you know this but Ghost range>Ultra range, pretty hard to avoid snipes when you have to be in range to attack.
4 Ghosts = 8 Supply 800 Mins 400 Gas , 2 Broods 8 Supply 600 Mins / 500 Gas . WoW those Ghosts really are cheap.
And if you don't like T3 Units getting beaten by lower tech then you must hate how terrible BC's , Carriers and Thors are ....
Cause those 3 Units don't do shit and have equal if not more costs ...
Most the Terran army consists of pure counter units you can't attack with after a won battle or are too slow to reach the opponent before he already remaxed the Ghost was a buffer that did well against most what Zerg had. But now they crippled that so much that it's basically useless against anything but Infestors . Great another specialist i only need for 1 purpose.
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On February 18 2012 12:49 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
--------- So they release the patch 1 day before Assembly AND MLG? Are they... I dont know, retarded?
lolol we all miss your awesome personality, Jinro. Get back into GSL qualifiers fast so we can watch you dominate dem KOREANS! I can't stand watching Morrow and other foreigners get pwnd by some dude named Maru.
Who's the only foreigner to make it to round of 4 is GSL... that's right Jinro, YOU ARE.
Wear that sick leather jacket with pride... you know the one I'm talking about xD
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why do they have to give us all this CPM, EPM, EAPM nonsense in the first place?
Just give us APM and be done with it. This is getting silly and ridiculous.
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I dont think it matters that tier3 units get beaten by tier1 units . Teching in starcraft isnt about getting better units, its about getting units with different or broader roles . OFC , one might argue that ghosts are better marines , but thats only because marines are generalist units as are ghosts . But marines are infinitely more cost effective , whilst ghosts are more pop efficient .
Getting sufficient ghosts up is really expensive considering u need to build up more tech baracks , ghost academy and upgrade 2 upgrades . Furthermore ghosts themselve are fairly expensive as well , thus can easily be considered tier3 , if only in the TvZ matchup .
Bottom line is , u can easily downtech to zergling/baneling to wipe out ghosts . Besides , why would blind morphing alot of broodlords always work???
PS: i know alot of people would say that Ghost mass with tanks and PFs is unbreakable but i dare say use drops and nydus!!!
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On February 22 2012 05:08 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 05:05 IMoperator wrote:On February 22 2012 04:35 TheDraken wrote:On February 22 2012 04:17 FeyFey wrote:
i will miss my vessel replacement. emp and radiation in a weaker form, sounded perfect for the ghost, having one spell vs each opposing race. I mean infestors counter every unit except siege tanks and ghosts. (how to beat seeker ... fungal the incoming raven, neural the raven (seeker range 6/neural range 7)). HTs conter almost every terran unit (feedback on high hp units, as their channelig abilities can be stopped with it), except tank and fight even with ghosts if you count in the archon.
So i am curious why the ghost suddenly is overpowered, doing the same as the other spellcasters but not as effective, but with some added sneaky skills.
I mean i never used the ghost to conter broodlords or mutas, used them to kill the infestors as the rest is easy to deal with for terran, especially since if the zerg lets you kill ultras with ghosts, he deserves to lose ... (didn't even lose ultras against the recent scroll sniping that became slightly more popular ..., lost some broodlords to it though, but using the energy of 10 ghosts to get 2 broodlords is not effective imo (prepatch still)). Well i will play zerg for some time and hope i will still meet some ghost players that try to snipe broodlords, will be funny to see the ranting. But i doubt blizzard would notice this, and in the gsl i guess ghosts would still work, seeing the zergs there (no offense they would still whipe the floor with me using their mouse only, but in terms of unit use ... ) , atleast on the non ultra maps.
Anyway tvz just became a mirror of tvp. Ghosts have to stop the casters or your army is doomed, but they are perfect at doing so. Lets welcome the viking marauders combination in tvz. Play zerg and protoss either way, you train 2 matchups for the price of one. (one reason why the gsl is so terran dominant, so this change will play in their favor) "the rest is easy to deal with for terran"... and people wonder why we want to make things harder for terran? this game isn't supposed to be easy. i don't think people understand the frustration that is the ghost, from the zerg perspective. zerg has two methods of detection. overseer and infestor. the terran player emp's my infestors and snipes my overseers to shit. and to add insult to injury he then enjoys himself sniping my broodlords, and i can't even fucking see them to fight back. it would be different if my detection wasn't right fucking there to kill, or if invisible ghosts didn't have a huge effect against my lords. so blizz decided to change one of those two, and has now made your invisible ghosts less of an issue after you take out my detection. for once you actually have to decide if ghosts are worth making. how horrible. Make things harder? Hate to break it to you buddy, but after 10 minutes Zerg gets way fucking easier than terran does. Trying to do multipronged drops to stay in the game, and having to micro the battles way better to come out on top. And then once Zerg gets brood/infestor they just amove the broods and fungal all the shit that gets in the way. Besides, in a lategame army how hard is it to get multiple overseers? Is the terran really gonna waste precious energy (cloak costs energy too you know) to snipe overseers when you have 10+ broodlords and a bunch of infestors? please. Oh look, an outrageous claim with no evidence to back it up!
Wasn't there a post recently about how games that go on longer terrans win less and less? Ah yes, here it is:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309042
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I have no motivation to play this game anymore. It's like Blizzard is telling me I picked the wrong race.
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Any1 know when GM on NA is out? I make love to you if u do
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On February 22 2012 05:19 IMoperator wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 05:08 PanN wrote:On February 22 2012 05:05 IMoperator wrote:On February 22 2012 04:35 TheDraken wrote:On February 22 2012 04:17 FeyFey wrote:
i will miss my vessel replacement. emp and radiation in a weaker form, sounded perfect for the ghost, having one spell vs each opposing race. I mean infestors counter every unit except siege tanks and ghosts. (how to beat seeker ... fungal the incoming raven, neural the raven (seeker range 6/neural range 7)). HTs conter almost every terran unit (feedback on high hp units, as their channelig abilities can be stopped with it), except tank and fight even with ghosts if you count in the archon.
So i am curious why the ghost suddenly is overpowered, doing the same as the other spellcasters but not as effective, but with some added sneaky skills.
I mean i never used the ghost to conter broodlords or mutas, used them to kill the infestors as the rest is easy to deal with for terran, especially since if the zerg lets you kill ultras with ghosts, he deserves to lose ... (didn't even lose ultras against the recent scroll sniping that became slightly more popular ..., lost some broodlords to it though, but using the energy of 10 ghosts to get 2 broodlords is not effective imo (prepatch still)). Well i will play zerg for some time and hope i will still meet some ghost players that try to snipe broodlords, will be funny to see the ranting. But i doubt blizzard would notice this, and in the gsl i guess ghosts would still work, seeing the zergs there (no offense they would still whipe the floor with me using their mouse only, but in terms of unit use ... ) , atleast on the non ultra maps.
Anyway tvz just became a mirror of tvp. Ghosts have to stop the casters or your army is doomed, but they are perfect at doing so. Lets welcome the viking marauders combination in tvz. Play zerg and protoss either way, you train 2 matchups for the price of one. (one reason why the gsl is so terran dominant, so this change will play in their favor) "the rest is easy to deal with for terran"... and people wonder why we want to make things harder for terran? this game isn't supposed to be easy. i don't think people understand the frustration that is the ghost, from the zerg perspective. zerg has two methods of detection. overseer and infestor. the terran player emp's my infestors and snipes my overseers to shit. and to add insult to injury he then enjoys himself sniping my broodlords, and i can't even fucking see them to fight back. it would be different if my detection wasn't right fucking there to kill, or if invisible ghosts didn't have a huge effect against my lords. so blizz decided to change one of those two, and has now made your invisible ghosts less of an issue after you take out my detection. for once you actually have to decide if ghosts are worth making. how horrible. Make things harder? Hate to break it to you buddy, but after 10 minutes Zerg gets way fucking easier than terran does. Trying to do multipronged drops to stay in the game, and having to micro the battles way better to come out on top. And then once Zerg gets brood/infestor they just amove the broods and fungal all the shit that gets in the way. Besides, in a lategame army how hard is it to get multiple overseers? Is the terran really gonna waste precious energy (cloak costs energy too you know) to snipe overseers when you have 10+ broodlords and a bunch of infestors? please. Oh look, an outrageous claim with no evidence to back it up! Wasn't there a post recently about how games that go on longer terrans win less and less? Ah yes, here it is:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309042
Wasn't it proven by countless people that those statistics are only from a single MLG, from months ago, which had players that while are very good, are not the absolute top tier of the world, and are thus not going to give the most accurate statistics anyways, even IF any of this mattered? Theres also the small sample size, a random mix of scrubs, foreign pros and korean pros, which is nowhere near the same as code S players duking it out....
Like, dude, I play Terran too, and I even openly admit to being biased... But even I'm not retarded enough to attempt to blindly rally behind random statistics to further my claim... it would kinda make me look stupid
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On February 22 2012 05:24 Raiju wrote:
Any1 know when GM on NA is out? I make love to you if u do
it's out
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On February 22 2012 05:24 Naeroon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 05:19 IMoperator wrote:On February 22 2012 05:08 PanN wrote:On February 22 2012 05:05 IMoperator wrote:On February 22 2012 04:35 TheDraken wrote:On February 22 2012 04:17 FeyFey wrote:
i will miss my vessel replacement. emp and radiation in a weaker form, sounded perfect for the ghost, having one spell vs each opposing race. I mean infestors counter every unit except siege tanks and ghosts. (how to beat seeker ... fungal the incoming raven, neural the raven (seeker range 6/neural range 7)). HTs conter almost every terran unit (feedback on high hp units, as their channelig abilities can be stopped with it), except tank and fight even with ghosts if you count in the archon.
So i am curious why the ghost suddenly is overpowered, doing the same as the other spellcasters but not as effective, but with some added sneaky skills.
I mean i never used the ghost to conter broodlords or mutas, used them to kill the infestors as the rest is easy to deal with for terran, especially since if the zerg lets you kill ultras with ghosts, he deserves to lose ... (didn't even lose ultras against the recent scroll sniping that became slightly more popular ..., lost some broodlords to it though, but using the energy of 10 ghosts to get 2 broodlords is not effective imo (prepatch still)). Well i will play zerg for some time and hope i will still meet some ghost players that try to snipe broodlords, will be funny to see the ranting. But i doubt blizzard would notice this, and in the gsl i guess ghosts would still work, seeing the zergs there (no offense they would still whipe the floor with me using their mouse only, but in terms of unit use ... ) , atleast on the non ultra maps.
Anyway tvz just became a mirror of tvp. Ghosts have to stop the casters or your army is doomed, but they are perfect at doing so. Lets welcome the viking marauders combination in tvz. Play zerg and protoss either way, you train 2 matchups for the price of one. (one reason why the gsl is so terran dominant, so this change will play in their favor) "the rest is easy to deal with for terran"... and people wonder why we want to make things harder for terran? this game isn't supposed to be easy. i don't think people understand the frustration that is the ghost, from the zerg perspective. zerg has two methods of detection. overseer and infestor. the terran player emp's my infestors and snipes my overseers to shit. and to add insult to injury he then enjoys himself sniping my broodlords, and i can't even fucking see them to fight back. it would be different if my detection wasn't right fucking there to kill, or if invisible ghosts didn't have a huge effect against my lords. so blizz decided to change one of those two, and has now made your invisible ghosts less of an issue after you take out my detection. for once you actually have to decide if ghosts are worth making. how horrible. Make things harder? Hate to break it to you buddy, but after 10 minutes Zerg gets way fucking easier than terran does. Trying to do multipronged drops to stay in the game, and having to micro the battles way better to come out on top. And then once Zerg gets brood/infestor they just amove the broods and fungal all the shit that gets in the way. Besides, in a lategame army how hard is it to get multiple overseers? Is the terran really gonna waste precious energy (cloak costs energy too you know) to snipe overseers when you have 10+ broodlords and a bunch of infestors? please. Oh look, an outrageous claim with no evidence to back it up! Wasn't there a post recently about how games that go on longer terrans win less and less? Ah yes, here it is:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309042 Wasn't it proven by countless people that those statistics are only from a single MLG, from months ago, which had players that while are very good, are not the absolute top tier of the world, and are thus not going to give the most accurate statistics anyways, even IF any of this mattered? Like, dude, I play Terran too, and I even openly admit to being biased... But even I'm not retarded enough to attempt to blindly rally behind random statistics to further my claim... it would kinda make me look stupid
this is the only thread that has these types of stats, so it's not like I can just go look up win rate times. I'm sure most terrans are struggling late game though, vs. both P and Z just because it's harder since we have no real good tier 3 units.
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am i the only one getting really bad lag with the new patch?
edit: also sound stuttering? even when the game isnt lagging?
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On February 22 2012 04:35 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 04:17 FeyFey wrote:
i will miss my vessel replacement. emp and radiation in a weaker form, sounded perfect for the ghost, having one spell vs each opposing race. I mean infestors counter every unit except siege tanks and ghosts. (how to beat seeker ... fungal the incoming raven, neural the raven (seeker range 6/neural range 7)). HTs conter almost every terran unit (feedback on high hp units, as their channelig abilities can be stopped with it), except tank and fight even with ghosts if you count in the archon.
So i am curious why the ghost suddenly is overpowered, doing the same as the other spellcasters but not as effective, but with some added sneaky skills.
I mean i never used the ghost to conter broodlords or mutas, used them to kill the infestors as the rest is easy to deal with for terran, especially since if the zerg lets you kill ultras with ghosts, he deserves to lose ... (didn't even lose ultras against the recent scroll sniping that became slightly more popular ..., lost some broodlords to it though, but using the energy of 10 ghosts to get 2 broodlords is not effective imo (prepatch still)). Well i will play zerg for some time and hope i will still meet some ghost players that try to snipe broodlords, will be funny to see the ranting. But i doubt blizzard would notice this, and in the gsl i guess ghosts would still work, seeing the zergs there (no offense they would still whipe the floor with me using their mouse only, but in terms of unit use ... ) , atleast on the non ultra maps.
Anyway tvz just became a mirror of tvp. Ghosts have to stop the casters or your army is doomed, but they are perfect at doing so. Lets welcome the viking marauders combination in tvz. Play zerg and protoss either way, you train 2 matchups for the price of one. (one reason why the gsl is so terran dominant, so this change will play in their favor) "the rest is easy to deal with for terran"... and people wonder why we want to make things harder for terran? this game isn't supposed to be easy. i don't think people understand the frustration that is the ghost, from the zerg perspective. zerg has two methods of detection. overseer and infestor. the terran player emp's my infestors and snipes my overseers to shit. and to add insult to injury he then enjoys himself sniping my broodlords, and i can't even fucking see them to fight back. it would be different if my detection wasn't right fucking there to kill, or if invisible ghosts didn't have a huge effect against my lords. so blizz decided to change one of those two, and has now made your invisible ghosts less of an issue after you take out my detection. for once you actually have to decide if ghosts are worth making. how horrible.
what the fuck? a zerg complaining, that terran isn't hard enough? that's just ridiculus just try it once to play it from the other side...
if you leave your overseers in spots where they are easily sniped it's your own damn fault. also you have infestor fungalgroth to reaveal ghosts and overseers cost really low amounts of money...
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On February 22 2012 05:29 IMoperator wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 05:24 Naeroon wrote:On February 22 2012 05:19 IMoperator wrote:On February 22 2012 05:08 PanN wrote:On February 22 2012 05:05 IMoperator wrote:On February 22 2012 04:35 TheDraken wrote:On February 22 2012 04:17 FeyFey wrote:
i will miss my vessel replacement. emp and radiation in a weaker form, sounded perfect for the ghost, having one spell vs each opposing race. I mean infestors counter every unit except siege tanks and ghosts. (how to beat seeker ... fungal the incoming raven, neural the raven (seeker range 6/neural range 7)). HTs conter almost every terran unit (feedback on high hp units, as their channelig abilities can be stopped with it), except tank and fight even with ghosts if you count in the archon.
So i am curious why the ghost suddenly is overpowered, doing the same as the other spellcasters but not as effective, but with some added sneaky skills.
I mean i never used the ghost to conter broodlords or mutas, used them to kill the infestors as the rest is easy to deal with for terran, especially since if the zerg lets you kill ultras with ghosts, he deserves to lose ... (didn't even lose ultras against the recent scroll sniping that became slightly more popular ..., lost some broodlords to it though, but using the energy of 10 ghosts to get 2 broodlords is not effective imo (prepatch still)). Well i will play zerg for some time and hope i will still meet some ghost players that try to snipe broodlords, will be funny to see the ranting. But i doubt blizzard would notice this, and in the gsl i guess ghosts would still work, seeing the zergs there (no offense they would still whipe the floor with me using their mouse only, but in terms of unit use ... ) , atleast on the non ultra maps.
Anyway tvz just became a mirror of tvp. Ghosts have to stop the casters or your army is doomed, but they are perfect at doing so. Lets welcome the viking marauders combination in tvz. Play zerg and protoss either way, you train 2 matchups for the price of one. (one reason why the gsl is so terran dominant, so this change will play in their favor) "the rest is easy to deal with for terran"... and people wonder why we want to make things harder for terran? this game isn't supposed to be easy. i don't think people understand the frustration that is the ghost, from the zerg perspective. zerg has two methods of detection. overseer and infestor. the terran player emp's my infestors and snipes my overseers to shit. and to add insult to injury he then enjoys himself sniping my broodlords, and i can't even fucking see them to fight back. it would be different if my detection wasn't right fucking there to kill, or if invisible ghosts didn't have a huge effect against my lords. so blizz decided to change one of those two, and has now made your invisible ghosts less of an issue after you take out my detection. for once you actually have to decide if ghosts are worth making. how horrible. Make things harder? Hate to break it to you buddy, but after 10 minutes Zerg gets way fucking easier than terran does. Trying to do multipronged drops to stay in the game, and having to micro the battles way better to come out on top. And then once Zerg gets brood/infestor they just amove the broods and fungal all the shit that gets in the way. Besides, in a lategame army how hard is it to get multiple overseers? Is the terran really gonna waste precious energy (cloak costs energy too you know) to snipe overseers when you have 10+ broodlords and a bunch of infestors? please. Oh look, an outrageous claim with no evidence to back it up! Wasn't there a post recently about how games that go on longer terrans win less and less? Ah yes, here it is:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309042 Wasn't it proven by countless people that those statistics are only from a single MLG, from months ago, which had players that while are very good, are not the absolute top tier of the world, and are thus not going to give the most accurate statistics anyways, even IF any of this mattered? Like, dude, I play Terran too, and I even openly admit to being biased... But even I'm not retarded enough to attempt to blindly rally behind random statistics to further my claim... it would kinda make me look stupid this is the only thread that has these types of stats, so it's not like I can just go look up win rate times. I'm sure most terrans are struggling late game though, vs. both P and Z just because it's harder since we have no real good tier 3 units.
I definitely agree theres struggling going on, I don't think its necessarily a balance issue but a metagame one, a buff would obviously be nice tho, haha 
But yeah, just sayin... real statistics would be nice (srsly!!). People would look at that link and bash you horrendously over the way you spun jt... And they'd be more rude than I was 
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On February 22 2012 05:05 IMoperator wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 04:35 TheDraken wrote:On February 22 2012 04:17 FeyFey wrote:
i will miss my vessel replacement. emp and radiation in a weaker form, sounded perfect for the ghost, having one spell vs each opposing race. I mean infestors counter every unit except siege tanks and ghosts. (how to beat seeker ... fungal the incoming raven, neural the raven (seeker range 6/neural range 7)). HTs conter almost every terran unit (feedback on high hp units, as their channelig abilities can be stopped with it), except tank and fight even with ghosts if you count in the archon.
So i am curious why the ghost suddenly is overpowered, doing the same as the other spellcasters but not as effective, but with some added sneaky skills.
I mean i never used the ghost to conter broodlords or mutas, used them to kill the infestors as the rest is easy to deal with for terran, especially since if the zerg lets you kill ultras with ghosts, he deserves to lose ... (didn't even lose ultras against the recent scroll sniping that became slightly more popular ..., lost some broodlords to it though, but using the energy of 10 ghosts to get 2 broodlords is not effective imo (prepatch still)). Well i will play zerg for some time and hope i will still meet some ghost players that try to snipe broodlords, will be funny to see the ranting. But i doubt blizzard would notice this, and in the gsl i guess ghosts would still work, seeing the zergs there (no offense they would still whipe the floor with me using their mouse only, but in terms of unit use ... ) , atleast on the non ultra maps.
Anyway tvz just became a mirror of tvp. Ghosts have to stop the casters or your army is doomed, but they are perfect at doing so. Lets welcome the viking marauders combination in tvz. Play zerg and protoss either way, you train 2 matchups for the price of one. (one reason why the gsl is so terran dominant, so this change will play in their favor) "the rest is easy to deal with for terran"... and people wonder why we want to make things harder for terran? this game isn't supposed to be easy. i don't think people understand the frustration that is the ghost, from the zerg perspective. zerg has two methods of detection. overseer and infestor. the terran player emp's my infestors and snipes my overseers to shit. and to add insult to injury he then enjoys himself sniping my broodlords, and i can't even fucking see them to fight back. it would be different if my detection wasn't right fucking there to kill, or if invisible ghosts didn't have a huge effect against my lords. so blizz decided to change one of those two, and has now made your invisible ghosts less of an issue after you take out my detection. for once you actually have to decide if ghosts are worth making. how horrible. Make things harder? Hate to break it to you buddy, but after 10 minutes Zerg gets way fucking easier than terran does. Trying to do multipronged drops to stay in the game, and having to micro the battles way better to come out on top. And then once Zerg gets brood/infestor they just amove the broods and fungal all the shit that gets in the way. Besides, in a lategame army how hard is it to get multiple overseers? Is the terran really gonna waste precious energy (cloak costs energy too you know) to snipe overseers when you have 10+ broodlords and a bunch of infestors? please.
As a master toss learning random (so both terran and zerg) zerg is waaaaaaaaay harder to pull off after 10 minutes. You have to micro; not miss any injects, and a 'good' battle is where you come out even. Multi-prong drops are just as hard to defend as they are to execute* (*TvP I find multi-prongs yield more damage for the same effort/cost as a TvZ drop, but it's still damn hard to defend correctly)
Perhaps you should consider other races difficulties before dictating them how difficult things are for them. I totally agree that his point about cloaked ghosts sniping overseers is retarded though.
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Love the balance whine.
That aside, I'm worried this phoenix upgrade buff might be a bit OP. Going mutas in ZvP will be suicide against stargate builds, but you still need a spire to fight midgame colossi. There will be a timing window where mutas are still effective, but lategame you'll definitely need to stop building them.
Which is a shame, because I've been getting raped by phoenix builds for a while now, and this just makes them WORSE. Infestor/Roach it is then.
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EPT
