EPTPatch 1.4.3 21-27 February - Page 42
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:15 dAPhREAk wrote: ... ghosts do that base damage IN ADDITION to their other abilities. if your opponent is going mass roach, there really is no point to get ghosts, but if your opponent is going roach/infestor, you should throw in some ghosts. its a support unit, not a base army unit. why do you keep comparing apples to oranges? Actually you should just get Tank / Marines / Marauder Medivacs .... Ghosts much like Reapers for example only block your barracks build time against this combo . In the superlate game when i have more then just 4-5 Barracks then i can add a few Ghosts ... | ||
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everdrone
Russian Federation22 Posts
they just add new option for replays, EPM = all clicks, APM = only effective clicks | ||
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TrickyGilligan
United States641 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:04 p1cKLes wrote: The other statistic I would point to is the length of each game showing that Terran obviously feels the need to end the game quickly, because their ability to win mid and late game significantly decreases as Protoss Techs up and Zerg Macro’s up. See, this is my biggest problem with the "Terran is underpowered" crowd. Let's assume for a moment, that like many Terrans are arguing, Terran can't win in any late-game situation against P or Z. Ever. Just zero chance, might as well gg after the 12 minute mark. I don't think this is true, but we're going to work under this assumption for a moment. Well, if Terran can't win late-game at all, how are the Terran matchups still hovering around 50% W/L? The Terran players would say "well that doesn't count, those were all-ins." No, all-ins DO count, especially if you can win GSLs with them. If Terran loses every game that goes past the 12 minute mark, that means they must win every game that ends before the 12 minute mark in order for the statistics to be 50/50. This is an oversimplification of what is really happening in the game, but considering that the stats are at 50/50 (or very close) in both TvP and TvZ, any late game underpoweredness has to coincide with early game overpoweredness, or the stats would clearly show imbalance in the overall matchup. Having a race be good in the early game and awful in the late game is obviously terrible game design and I'm not happy with the situation, even as a non-Terran player. I just want Terrans to acknowledge that if Terran gets a lategame buff, it simply has to be offset with an early game nerf, or the matchups aren't going to stay at 50/50. MULEs losing their ability to oversaturate mineral lines would be a good place to start in my opinion, with some sort of late-game buff to go along with that. | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:21 Joedaddy wrote: Think they messed up the APM calculator? My EPM is significantly higher than my APM. They should at least be the same right? No. it means ur just super efficient with ur apm. You can have the same eAPM as someone who has double ur APM if they spam  | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:12 SiguR wrote: Ive been playing. The phoenix range is RIDICULOUS. As people suspected, mutas shouldn't ever land a hit again. The upgrade is really fast too. On the plus side, if you get the upgrade+fleet beacon and your macro slips a bit, you can just queue up a mothership! I don't know why they would make such drastic changes two days before such big events. This just seems like a complete blunder by blizzard, except i don't see any precipitating factors or pressures on them to release this patch with this timing. Just pure idiocy. I can't say I am bummed out that mutas do not have unlimited usefulness in the match up. The fleet beacon is so pricey, but if the zerg has infested a ton of mutas, I will enjoy getting some nearly untouchable units to shut that down. And forcing a 350 case upgrade(building included) and a buch of 100 gas units that can't shoot at the ground is ok in my book. | ||
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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:12 dAPhREAk wrote: i was only responding to the post i quoted, which implied that terrans have been doing poorly in GSL. to respond to your post, Blizzard doesnt (and shouldnt) balance the game around casual players. sc2 tournaments would be a complete farce if Blizzard decides terran needs a buff because bronze-GM (non-progamers) can't play terran well. the only people it should be balanced around are people who play the game professionally. it gives everyone something to aspire to. Sorry I didn’t mean to jump into the middle of a conversation. I agree with this in part, but on some level they do have to balance it for the lower levels, because they have to appease the casual gamers in order to get gamers interested enough to watch tournaments and support the esport financially. If you have gamers that are just so utterly frustrated that they give up, then you’re losing gamers, which means you have less gamers watching tournaments and therefore less money to support the esport. Without the gamers supporting the esport you don’t have enough money in circulation to have big tournaments. So in part, I do agree that they have to focus on your top tier player to make it watchable, but at the same time if you don’t have enough people watching and taking part in the tournaments, then the esport ceases to exist. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3682 Posts
Phoenix range looks kinda silly, almost as silly as 4 phoenix being able to micro forever vs any number of muta :'( Mutas to be gone in PvZ in about 2-3 weeks. Just had 6 full energy ghost snipe vs broods, ran out of energy after 4 broods were down, ah men blizz y u do this shit? | ||
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chestnutcc
India429 Posts
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CyDe
United States1010 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:22 TrickyGilligan wrote: See, this is my biggest problem with the "Terran is underpowered" crowd. Let's assume for a moment, that like many Terrans are arguing, Terran can't win in any late-game situation against P or Z. Ever. Just zero chance, might as well gg after the 12 minute mark. I don't think this is true, but we're going to work under this assumption for a moment. Well, if Terran can't win late-game at all, how are the Terran matchups still hovering around 50% W/L? The Terran players would say "well that doesn't count, those were all-ins." No, all-ins DO count, especially if you can win GSLs with them. If Terran loses every game that goes past the 12 minute mark, that means they must win every game that ends before the 12 minute mark in order for the statistics to be 50/50. This is an oversimplification of what is really happening in the game, but considering that the stats are at 50/50 (or very close) in both TvP and TvZ, any late game underpoweredness has to coincide with early game overpoweredness, or the stats would clearly show imbalance in the overall matchup. Having a race be good in the early game and awful in the late game is obviously terrible game design and I'm not happy with the situation, even as a non-Terran player. I just want Terrans to acknowledge that if Terran gets a lategame buff, it simply has to be offset with an early game nerf, or the matchups aren't going to stay at 50/50. MULEs losing their ability to oversaturate mineral lines would be a good place to start in my opinion, with some sort of late-game buff to go along with that. I don't think any terran players, at least not the ones worth listening to, are arguing that Terran early game is UP. Some say it is fine, but the majority I think say that yes, it is overpowered. However, you cannot say that Terran is completely OP, same way you can't say it is completely UP. I, as a terran player, would absolutely love to see an early game nerf, as long as there is a major, MAJOR late game buff. I am so tired of hitting the same timing again and again vs protoss players, but I know that is the one way I can win, because my late game vs toss would consist of a MMM composition transitioning into losing. Nerfing MULEs I think should definitely be acknowledged, but one thing that could reduce the "illusion" surrounding MULEs is to add them to the harvester tab. Although they would still be OP, one would be able to see that the Terran opponent had 28 harvesters, not just 25 scvs. | ||
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shizna
United Kingdom803 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:21 s3rp wrote: Actually you should just get Tank / Marines / Marauder Medivacs .... Ghosts much like Reapers for example only block your barracks build time against this combo . In the superlate game when i have more then just 4-5 Barracks then i can add a few Ghosts ... i predict that terran will continue getting ghosts for a while, because blizzard said "lolz look they can 2shot infestors!11". but after a while, they'll realise it's not worth the money/supply and go back to pure viking/tank. imagine how awful it would be if blizzard changed ultralisk for example, "reduced ultralisk damage by 50%, but does bonus damage versus ghost". it doesn't make any sense... it makes ultralisk awful against everything except 1 terran unit... yet that change would make more sense than the ghost change. | ||
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eNtitY~
United States1293 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:21 everdrone wrote: they just add new option for replays, EPM = all clicks, APM = only effective clicks No it should be the other way around. E stands for "Effective" and they said this on the Situation Report: "After hearing a lot of feedback from both sides, we decided to bring back classic APM, which will track all actions issued by the player. Meanwhile, EPM (effective actions per minute) will continue to track actual commands as it did prior to patch 1.4.3" | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Phoenix upgrade for air attacks is increased by 2, but I see no change in the Graviton Beam range. It's still the same range as far as I can tell. That was a question that a lot of us had (including myself). Graviton Beam range seems to be exactly the same. graviton beam is already hard to deal with in the early stages, right now a terran and toss can target fire a phoenix that lifted something, but will have to tank the army for quiet some time taking terrible hits in a direct engagement (don't try it you will lose). If the range would be higher, even midgame the phoenix could just lift key units without having to fear something, which would be a big problem in pvp. And for hydras as well (you lift some that are at the side and retreat), marines would be even easier to pick then hydras. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:12 Uncultured wrote: You ever use a mothership? The change WAS hardly noticeable. It's just acceleration, not max speed. I think the change to the acceleration was really key to lategame PvZ. If you've been sitting, you often have to move forward to use a vortex. After vortexing (you have to stop to vortex) you often need to back away to avoid any corruptors that didn't fly into the hole. Vortex is already a flakey spell, imo, and the acceleration buff, while slight, made using the spell and microing after the spell to keep the MS alive much easier. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44276 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:33 FeyFey wrote: graviton beam is already hard to deal with in the early stages, right now a terran and toss can target fire a phoenix that lifted something, but will have to tank the army for quiet some time taking terrible hits in a direct engagement (don't try it you will lose). If the range would be higher, even midgame the phoenix could just lift key units without having to fear something, which would be a big problem in pvp. And for hydras as well (you lift some that are at the side and retreat), marines would be even easier to pick then hydras. I agree, and I don't think GB should be changed. I just know that a bunch of people wanted to know if the Phoenix air range upgrade only affected the main attack or if it changed GB as well, and so I'm answering that question  | ||
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PlateCaptain
United States26 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:12 SiguR wrote: Ive been playing. The phoenix range is RIDICULOUS. As people suspected, mutas shouldn't ever land a hit again. The upgrade is really fast too.. This is exactly why I've never been more exited for a patch - I loves me some Phoenix. | ||
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TheDraken
United States640 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:17 FeyFey wrote: i will miss my vessel replacement. emp and radiation in a weaker form, sounded perfect for the ghost, having one spell vs each opposing race. I mean infestors counter every unit except siege tanks and ghosts. (how to beat seeker ... fungal the incoming raven, neural the raven (seeker range 6/neural range 7)). HTs conter almost every terran unit (feedback on high hp units, as their channelig abilities can be stopped with it), except tank and fight even with ghosts if you count in the archon. So i am curious why the ghost suddenly is overpowered, doing the same as the other spellcasters but not as effective, but with some added sneaky skills. I mean i never used the ghost to conter broodlords or mutas, used them to kill the infestors as the rest is easy to deal with for terran, especially since if the zerg lets you kill ultras with ghosts, he deserves to lose ... (didn't even lose ultras against the recent scroll sniping that became slightly more popular ..., lost some broodlords to it though, but using the energy of 10 ghosts to get 2 broodlords is not effective imo (prepatch still)). Well i will play zerg for some time and hope i will still meet some ghost players that try to snipe broodlords, will be funny to see the ranting. But i doubt blizzard would notice this, and in the gsl i guess ghosts would still work, seeing the zergs there (no offense they would still whipe the floor with me using their mouse only, but in terms of unit use ... ) , atleast on the non ultra maps. Anyway tvz just became a mirror of tvp. Ghosts have to stop the casters or your army is doomed, but they are perfect at doing so. Lets welcome the viking marauders combination in tvz. Play zerg and protoss either way, you train 2 matchups for the price of one. (one reason why the gsl is so terran dominant, so this change will play in their favor) "the rest is easy to deal with for terran"... and people wonder why we want to make things harder for terran? this game isn't supposed to be easy. i don't think people understand the frustration that is the ghost, from the zerg perspective. zerg has two methods of detection. overseer and infestor. the terran player emp's my infestors and snipes my overseers to shit. and to add insult to injury he then enjoys himself sniping my broodlords, and i can't even fucking see them to fight back. it would be different if my detection wasn't right fucking there to kill, or if invisible ghosts didn't have a huge effect against my lords. so blizz decided to change one of those two, and has now made your invisible ghosts less of an issue after you take out my detection. for once you actually have to decide if ghosts are worth making. how horrible. | ||
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CyDe
United States1010 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:25 p1cKLes wrote: Sorry I didn’t mean to jump into the middle of a conversation. I agree with this in part, but on some level they do have to balance it for the lower levels, because they have to appease the casual gamers in order to get gamers interested enough to watch tournaments and support the esport financially. If you have gamers that are just so utterly frustrated that they give up, then you’re losing gamers, which means you have less gamers watching tournaments and therefore less money to support the esport. Without the gamers supporting the esport you don’t have enough money in circulation to have big tournaments. So in part, I do agree that they have to focus on your top tier player to make it watchable, but at the same time if you don’t have enough people watching and taking part in the tournaments, then the esport ceases to exist. Yes, I agree with you in terms of balancing lower levels while keeping higher levels reasonable, for sure. This is why I am a big fan of raising the "skill floor"; as in, making a change that can only make people better, instead of hinder them. For instance, if Blizzard was to put a 50 second cooldown on MULEs (something I would not support, although I think a lesser cooldown would be good), the highest level of play shouldn't be affected at all, right? The highest level of play should be hitting every calldown right on the dot (of course they don't, but this would encourage them to). However, lower levels of the game who forget MULEs for three minutes then call down six MULEs to get an income of over 9000 would be nerfed. Just an idea, and something that I enjoy thinking about. | ||
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xOff
United States247 Posts
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ColterTV
Argentina163 Posts
On February 22 2012 03:24 acidbean wrote: You downloaded the newest version of the game which is 1.4.3, only the patch notes arent updated yet. Oh makes sense thanks! | ||
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