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Let's break this down. Essentially, the TvZ metagame atm consists of zerg using their LOL-macro to make 14 drones whenever not being attacked, and terran, with their beautiful 2 scv pump (with an occassional mule), falling rediculously behind in economy. Terrans then must desperately harass the zerg (ie with gimmicky hellion drops), in a desperate hope to keep the zerg from easily running away in the econ game. Zerg can reach 70 workers in ~ 10 minutes (See idra games), while terran will be lucky to hit 70 workers after 25 minutes.
So this patch doesn't have THAT much of an effect on the game. Either the terran gets lucky with his gimmicky drops, kills tons of drones, and wins midgame, or loses lategame anyways to 5 base-70 drone zergs. All this patch does is guarantee that once zerg T-3 comes out with broodlords and infesters, the newly double-nerfed ghost will do absolutely jack shit, and the terran essentially rolls over and dies.
Legit, at this point, terrans should just gg upon scanning a greater spire. Corruptors literally ass-rape vikings (200 hp to 125, yea good luck LOL), especially with fungals everywhere, and aint no shit in the world gonna stop broodlords now.
I predict zergs will still be unhappy, quoting win ratios that are 6 months old or derived from a signle tournument. Please check out Husky Starcraft if you want to see zerg win - a terran hasn't won a TvZ series on his channel in around 7 months now. I'm decently sure zergs however will continue to bitch, though I do look forward to what unit Blizzard will nerf next.
The list of terran units nerfed are as following: Vikings (twice), SCV (once), marines (stim nerfed), marauders (once), Medivacs (twice), ghosts (three times), siege tanks (twice), hellions (three times). Barracks (twice), bunkers (twice) Legit, what else in the terran arsenal the zerg wants to nerf? Battlecrusiers? Ravens? The only units the zerg is OK with terran using seem to the units that are so bad they are NEVER used in competitive play.
I look forward to the day where zerg begins to petition for supply depots to cost 200 minerals.
I'd like to state that 90% of the above writing is facts, so please don't consider this whining and bitching.
Finally, I'd like to tell terrans to calm down. Essentially TvZ late game was like climbing a near vertical wall on your bare hands, but know its literally vertical so you don't even need to try and get your hands damaged. This really is a change for the better
User was warned for this post
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On February 21 2012 05:11 [Azn]Nada wrote:
Let's break this down. Essentially, the TvZ metagame atm consists of zerg using their LOL-macro to make 14 drones whenever not being attacked, and terran, with their beautiful 2 scv pump (with an occassional mule), falling rediculously behind in economy. Terrans then must desperately harass the zerg (ie with gimmicky hellion drops), in a desperate hope to keep the zerg from easily running away in the econ game. Zerg can reach 70 workers in ~ 10 minutes (See idra games), while terran will be lucky to hit 70 workers after 25 minutes.
So this patch doesn't have THAT much of an effect on the game. Either the terran gets lucky with his gimmicky drops, kills tons of drones, and wins midgame, or loses lategame anyways to 5 base-70 drone zergs. All this patch does is guarantee that once zerg T-3 comes out with broodlords and infesters, the newly double-nerfed ghost will do absolutely jack shit, and the terran essentially rolls over and dies.
Legit, at this point, terrans should just gg upon scanning a greater spire. Corruptors literally ass-rape vikings (200 hp to 125, yea good luck LOL), especially with fungals everywhere, and aint no shit in the world gonna stop broodlords now.
I predict zergs will still be unhappy, quoting win ratios that are 6 months old or derived from a signle tournument. Please check out Husky Starcraft if you want to see zerg win - a terran hasn't won a TvZ series on his channel in around 7 months now. I'm decently sure zergs however will continue to bitch, though I do look forward to what unit Blizzard will nerf next.
The list of terran units nerfed are as following: Vikings (twice), SCV (once), marines (stim nerfed), marauders (once), Medivacs (twice), ghosts (three times), siege tanks (twice), hellions (three times). Barracks (twice), bunkers (twice) Legit, what else in the terran arsenal the zerg wants to nerf? Battlecrusiers? Ravens? The only units the zerg is OK with terran using seem to the units that are so bad they are NEVER used in competitive play.
I look forward to the day where zerg begins to petition for supply depots to cost 200 minerals.
I'd like to state that 90% of the above writing is facts, so please don't consider this whining and bitching.
Finally, I'd like to tell terrans to calm down. Essentially TvZ late game was like climbing a near vertical wall on your bare hands, but know its literally vertical so you don't even need to try and get your hands damaged. This really is a change for the better
Thors were nerfed as well, just sayin.. and they are nerfing reapers in hots.
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Please check out Husky Starcraft if you want to see zerg win - a terran hasn't won a TvZ series on his channel in around 7 months now.
That has to be the best argument in the thread.
/sarcarsm
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On February 21 2012 05:11 [Azn]Nada wrote:
Let's break this down. Essentially, the TvZ metagame atm consists of zerg using their LOL-macro to make 14 drones whenever not being attacked, and terran, with their beautiful 2 scv pump (with an occassional mule), falling rediculously behind in economy. Terrans then must desperately harass the zerg (ie with gimmicky hellion drops), in a desperate hope to keep the zerg from easily running away in the econ game. Zerg can reach 70 workers in ~ 10 minutes (See idra games), while terran will be lucky to hit 70 workers after 25 minutes.
So this patch doesn't have THAT much of an effect on the game. Either the terran gets lucky with his gimmicky drops, kills tons of drones, and wins midgame, or loses lategame anyways to 5 base-70 drone zergs. All this patch does is guarantee that once zerg T-3 comes out with broodlords and infesters, the newly double-nerfed ghost will do absolutely jack shit, and the terran essentially rolls over and dies.
Legit, at this point, terrans should just gg upon scanning a greater spire. Corruptors literally ass-rape vikings (200 hp to 125, yea good luck LOL), especially with fungals everywhere, and aint no shit in the world gonna stop broodlords now.
I predict zergs will still be unhappy, quoting win ratios that are 6 months old or derived from a signle tournument. Please check out Husky Starcraft if you want to see zerg win - a terran hasn't won a TvZ series on his channel in around 7 months now. I'm decently sure zergs however will continue to bitch, though I do look forward to what unit Blizzard will nerf next.
The list of terran units nerfed are as following: Vikings (twice), SCV (once), marines (stim nerfed), marauders (once), Medivacs (twice), ghosts (three times), siege tanks (twice), hellions (three times). Barracks (twice), bunkers (twice) Legit, what else in the terran arsenal the zerg wants to nerf? Battlecrusiers? Ravens? The only units the zerg is OK with terran using seem to the units that are so bad they are NEVER used in competitive play.
I look forward to the day where zerg begins to petition for supply depots to cost 200 minerals.
I'd like to state that 90% of the above writing is facts, so please don't consider this whining and bitching.
Finally, I'd like to tell terrans to calm down. Essentially TvZ late game was like climbing a near vertical wall on your bare hands, but know its literally vertical so you don't even need to try and get your hands damaged. This really is a change for the better
No, it's definitely whining and bitching.
I take it you don't watch the GSL? Where TvZ at the highest level is still relatively even, maybe even favoring the Terran a little bit? I realize this is not necessarily reflective of the level you play at (Bronze), but stating that Terrans cannot win is blatantly false.
Good players will learn to adapt. Or, Blizzard will realize the nerf is too large and reverse it. Either way complaining doesn't really accomplish anything.
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On February 21 2012 05:17 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +Please check out Husky Starcraft if you want to see zerg win - a terran hasn't won a TvZ series on his channel in around 7 months now. That has to be the best argument in the thread. /sarcarsm
Yes this is bad example, only because Husky is having hard time finding TvZ games where T wins doesnt mean TvZ isnt favored to Z 
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On February 21 2012 05:11 [Azn]Nada wrote:
Let's break this down. Essentially, the TvZ metagame atm consists of zerg using their LOL-macro to make 14 drones whenever not being attacked, and terran, with their beautiful 2 scv pump (with an occassional mule), falling rediculously behind in economy. Terrans then must desperately harass the zerg (ie with gimmicky hellion drops), in a desperate hope to keep the zerg from easily running away in the econ game. Zerg can reach 70 workers in ~ 10 minutes (See idra games), while terran will be lucky to hit 70 workers after 25 minutes.
So this patch doesn't have THAT much of an effect on the game. Either the terran gets lucky with his gimmicky drops, kills tons of drones, and wins midgame, or loses lategame anyways to 5 base-70 drone zergs. All this patch does is guarantee that once zerg T-3 comes out with broodlords and infesters, the newly double-nerfed ghost will do absolutely jack shit, and the terran essentially rolls over and dies.
Legit, at this point, terrans should just gg upon scanning a greater spire. Corruptors literally ass-rape vikings (200 hp to 125, yea good luck LOL), especially with fungals everywhere, and aint no shit in the world gonna stop broodlords now.
I predict zergs will still be unhappy, quoting win ratios that are 6 months old or derived from a signle tournument. Please check out Husky Starcraft if you want to see zerg win - a terran hasn't won a TvZ series on his channel in around 7 months now. I'm decently sure zergs however will continue to bitch, though I do look forward to what unit Blizzard will nerf next.
The list of terran units nerfed are as following: Vikings (twice), SCV (once), marines (stim nerfed), marauders (once), Medivacs (twice), ghosts (three times), siege tanks (twice), hellions (three times). Barracks (twice), bunkers (twice) Legit, what else in the terran arsenal the zerg wants to nerf? Battlecrusiers? Ravens? The only units the zerg is OK with terran using seem to the units that are so bad they are NEVER used in competitive play.
I look forward to the day where zerg begins to petition for supply depots to cost 200 minerals.
I'd like to state that 90% of the above writing is facts, so please don't consider this whining and bitching.
Finally, I'd like to tell terrans to calm down. Essentially TvZ late game was like climbing a near vertical wall on your bare hands, but know its literally vertical so you don't even need to try and get your hands damaged. This really is a change for the better
This is the best post I have read in a month. If Blizzard goes ahead with the Ghost nerf there is no point of even trying to play late game TvZ. Just all-in every game and hope for the best.
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Are the actual notes up? Not the report, the actual notes.
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On February 21 2012 04:59 phodacbiet wrote:Stop crying about ghost nerf this change doesnt even effect most of you. If anything, this change will mess up viewers since it create one dimensional play but gaming wise it shouldnt even effect 95% of the players.
The fact that it will make tvz more one dimensional is a bigger reason than any other to cry out against this change.
Who cares about personal advantages. The matchup is going to get screwed over by awful changes.
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I think we all can agree that to balance this patch out in itself marines should now cost 25min since they only do 6 dmg. In comparison zerglings do 5dmg and cost 25minerals too so this change is clearly good for balance, sc2 and the world in general.
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Hmm, I think blizzard wants us Terrans to use Ravens + Hunter Seeker Missiles. But the problem is, it takes 2 hunter seeker missiles to kill a single Broodlord and each Raven can only use 1 Seeker missile at a time. So if Zerg players are anything besides being idiotic and clump up 10 broodlords all together, Raven + Seeker missiles are just not cost effective and unable to stop the broodlord infestor corruptor composition.
With that said, Ghosts become irrelavent vs Broodlords, 12 Snipes to kill a single broodlord and vikings can be easily fungaled. Hmm, I do not really know what to say here but blizzard, really? I mean, all these patches so far, its been helping out Zerg/Protoss players how to play more comfortable rather than improving. The main reason Zerg/Protoss is improving skill-wise is that they rely too much on blizzard giving them buffs to compensate for their lack of intelligence and strive to get better.
It's really sad for me to see how the game is evolving into. Rather than an environment of fairness, instead, many that complain to make their race work in their desired favor.
Anyways, I believe if such patch takes place, and this is the 2nd patch that Terran unit got more than 40% nerf (Ghost Emp Range nerf by 45%), many people will just quit this game especially at the lower league levels because Zergs can just sit there and make 15 Broodlords and take the automatically win. I mean honestly, after the Ghost Emp 45% radius reduction, Protoss players don't even care about spreading our their High Templars because 1 Emp is not enough to drain 5-6 high templars even if they are clumped.
Just really sad that blizzard, instead of helping players to improve, give easy buffs for players that whine and cry for that easy win. =(
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On February 20 2012 11:15 Matrijs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 11:00 ZeromuS wrote:On February 20 2012 10:50 Matrijs wrote:
I'm curious: why don't infestors hard counter ravens? Just fungal the group to hold them in place, then NP two of them and double seeker missile the whole group (which can't run away because of fungal), killing them all instantly. Neural Parasite only outranges Seeker Missile by 1, which would make it difficult to outrange successfully, were it not for the fact that you can use fungal to hold the ravens still... The day this happens is the day pimpest plays returns. To be honest, as a terrible Terran who can't marine split, this doesn't sound that hard to me, which is why I suggested it. Step 1, fungal (easy, you have a range differential of 3 to exploit). Step 2, NP (slightly harder, but not too bad - your infestor will automatically NP at max range). Step 3, fungal again to make sure nothing gets away (easy). Step 4, select raven and seeker missile. You can even do it nice and slow - each fungal gives you a four second window to do the next action, during which the ravens can't move. Basic marine splitting is harder.
If a Terran with Mass Ravens just floats up to your infestors with Ravens, yeah. Just cackle as you fungal to him death, enjoy your new Terran casting ability, however shortlived, and go make 50 banelings. But that's not something an experienced Terran will ever do. Ravens are actually quite microable against infestors.
The Terran will approach near his target (your base) with 1-2 banshees leading the raven pack and vikings on one flank. This will either be over impassable features, Terran controlled ground, or airspace. If there's a pack of infestors sitting there, he'll turn around and try to find another opening. If there's nothing, he'll A move the ravens near the point of entry, hold T, and click like mad over every part of your base. The Ravens will begin to individually fan out dropping Auto Turrets copiously. They have Range 7 and cannot be fungaled. You won't be able to Fungal more than maybe 2 ravens and they're light with 140 HP so it takes like 5 Fungals or ~18-19 game seconds to destroy them. NP is ridiculously easy to spot and it is generally not worth it to switch over from your infestors to control 1 raven which probably isn't in range of the 1/3rd of a raven ball that's still actually sitting there waiting for autoturret commands. The rest of the Ravens, due to them not having an autoattack, will respond to damage by microing themselves away, but only after they've followed through with the Terran's commands. It's pretty sweet, like a molasses-slow auto-blink hack.
Turrets are pretty decent against Infested Terran eggs because the eggs need to hatch and the short range and speed means you need to throw them right into the machine gun shitstorm and let a portion of them die before they can do any damage.
Everything else is just a PDD away from uselessness.
Infestors cannot weather that storm and become pretty crappy.
My suggestion for defeating mass Ravens would be a mix of Corruptors, Mutas, Lings, Roaches, and Infestors. With maybe a couple of Ultras. Oh and Banelings, because he'll double wall all your ramps. If that sounds like a lot of gas and a shit ton of micro, well, yeah. It's not like you'd be the only one.
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In Addition, Hunter seeker missiles can be dodged by 90% units in the Zerg Arsenal. I mean wow.... right? Also, the acceleration of Hunter seeker missile is 2.25, to an increased speed of 2.95. Basically, its a 2.45-2.55 speed Missile that can be dodged by pretty much every Zerg/Protoss units. Just really disappointed to see ghosts become literally useless. And for those who say ghosts can drop nukes. Don't forget each nuke costs 100 minerals and 100 gas. And in order for nukes to actually do jack, we have to research Cloaking. Not to mention, dropping 1 Nuke at a time will almost never work. And because of the previous building buffs to Zerg and Protoss, it takes more than 3+ nukes to kill anything that worth a penny. Thanks.
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On February 21 2012 05:29 LavaLava wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 11:15 Matrijs wrote:On February 20 2012 11:00 ZeromuS wrote:On February 20 2012 10:50 Matrijs wrote:
I'm curious: why don't infestors hard counter ravens? Just fungal the group to hold them in place, then NP two of them and double seeker missile the whole group (which can't run away because of fungal), killing them all instantly. Neural Parasite only outranges Seeker Missile by 1, which would make it difficult to outrange successfully, were it not for the fact that you can use fungal to hold the ravens still... The day this happens is the day pimpest plays returns. To be honest, as a terrible Terran who can't marine split, this doesn't sound that hard to me, which is why I suggested it. Step 1, fungal (easy, you have a range differential of 3 to exploit). Step 2, NP (slightly harder, but not too bad - your infestor will automatically NP at max range). Step 3, fungal again to make sure nothing gets away (easy). Step 4, select raven and seeker missile. You can even do it nice and slow - each fungal gives you a four second window to do the next action, during which the ravens can't move. Basic marine splitting is harder. If a Terran with Mass Ravens just floats up to your infestors with Ravens, yeah. Just cackle as you fungal to him death, enjoy your new Terran casting ability, however shortlived, and go make 50 banelings. But that's not something an experienced Terran will ever do. Ravens are actually quite microable against infestors. The Terran will approach near his target (your base) with 1-2 banshees leading the raven pack and vikings on one flank. This will either be over impassable features, Terran controlled ground, or airspace. If there's a pack of infestors sitting there, he'll turn around and try to find another opening. If there's nothing, he'll A move the ravens near the point of entry, hold T, and click like mad over every part of your base. The Ravens will begin to individually fan out dropping Auto Turrets copiously. They have Range 7 and cannot be fungaled. You won't be able to Fungal more than maybe 2 ravens and they're light with 140 HP so it takes like 5 Fungals or ~18-19 game seconds to destroy them. NP is ridiculously easy to spot and it is generally not worth it to switch over from your infestors to control 1 raven which probably isn't in range of the 1/3rd of a raven ball that's still actually sitting there waiting for autoturret commands. The rest of the Ravens, due to them not having an autoattack, will respond to damage by microing themselves away, but only after they've followed through with the Terran's commands. It's pretty sweet, like a molasses-slow auto-blink hack. Turrets are pretty decent against Infested Terran eggs because the eggs need to hatch and the short range and speed means you need to throw them right into the machine gun shitstorm and let a portion of them die before they can do any damage. Everything else is just a PDD away from uselessness. Infestors cannot weather that storm and become pretty crappy. My suggestion for defeating mass Ravens would be a mix of Corruptors, Mutas, Lings, Roaches, and Infestors. With maybe a couple of Ultras. Oh and Banelings, because he'll double wall all your ramps. If that sounds like a lot of gas and a shit ton of micro, well, yeah. It's not like you'd be the only one.
Hi Larva, if Fungal Growth can be dodged, I would not even care about Broodlords. Thanks to instant cast and total stunn for 4 seconds. Really balanced skill-cast I admit. Laugh out Loud.
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EMP nerf was necessary, 2 base EMP pushes were too strong against Protoss. The stats revealed how strong EMP was against Protoss, with Terran literally assraping Protoss a new asshole.
The snipe nerf on the other hand, is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction due to a few Z pro players whining about getting sniped down to death by a Terran player who is economically ahead of them (which should never happen in the first place).
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Russian Federation36 Posts
This thread name should be changed to "Terran General Forum".
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Russian Federation36 Posts
On February 21 2012 05:22 Teejing wrote:
I think we all can agree that to balance this patch out in itself marines should now cost 25min since they only do 6 dmg. In comparison zerglings do 5dmg and cost 25minerals too so this change is clearly good for balance, sc2 and the world in general.
Please tell me you are joking. I beg you.
Lings- melee units
Marines- Ranged units
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On February 21 2012 05:33 superstartran wrote:
EMP nerf was necessary, 2 base EMP pushes were too strong against Protoss. The stats revealed how strong EMP was against Protoss, with Terran literally assraping Protoss a new asshole.
The snipe nerf on the other hand, is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction due to a few Z pro players whining about getting sniped down to death by a Terran player who is economically ahead of them (which should never happen in the first place).
LoL Superstartran, If ghosts rush are that strong, then why not every single terran use it and get 100% win rates? Obviously, its not strong at all if you react correctly and scout out with observer. What the problem here is, Ghosts were used for almost 2 years now and recently being nerfed by 45% is outrageous. Not only to the Emp Radius but also for the upcoming Snipe nerf. Yes, Ghosts gain +5 damage from the previous 45 vs SpellCasters but, you do have to realize, the 50 snipe Damage can only kill High Templars easier and never the infestors.
Why? Infestors off creep speed is 2.5 and on creep is WHAT, like 3.2ish. Ghost speed is 2.25, I mean how can the 2nd snipe ever catch those infestors? Maybe if Snipes have instant stunn ability like that of Fungal Growth. I would be more happy to see it. It kinda makes sense, if someone just got sniped, wouldn't that person/creature be physically paralyzed for a few seconds? Obviously, Blizzard is not accustomed to logic/physics. A marine can out run a viking haha!! Funny eh?
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On February 21 2012 05:33 superstartran wrote:
EMP nerf was necessary, 2 base EMP pushes were too strong against Protoss. The stats revealed how strong EMP was against Protoss, with Terran literally assraping Protoss a new asshole.
The snipe nerf on the other hand, is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction due to a few Z pro players whining about getting sniped down to death by a Terran player who is economically ahead of them (which should never happen in the first place).
This push was actualyu barely used, because it lose hard against colossus first.
The emp nerf was a nerf for lategame TvP so you need more emp to carpet emp a protoss army.
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Don't HSM destroy all larva at a hatchery? instead of killing the units.. harass the larva? then they can't resupply.
Or would that not work at all? (I don't play terran) take a lot of multi-tasking no doubts, but then pro players should be able to handle it.
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I know I get frustrated and I’m honestly not trying to QQ here. I just feel like unless you are a Terran Korean GrandMaster your chance of beating protoss is pretty slim and I’m sorry, I would like to have some fun too. We are not all Korean GM’s. I look at the statistics from silver to diamond and Terran is significantly weaker by a fairly big margin. I’ve been playing Terran for the last year and half and I feel like I’ve gotten nowhere with Protoss other than all-in’ing to win and I just refuse to do that. I was platinum and now I’m gold. I’ve beaten platinum and diamond zerg and terran, but can’t beat gold Protoss.
I had a moment of weakness yesterday and got so frustrated that I said screw it, I’m switching races and I played Protoss for the first time yesterday with a little help from my buddy telling me some build orders, and…? I beat a platinum terran. Trapped him in a corner with a nice little deathball. Did feedback on his medivacs so he couldn’t fly away and stormed the rest. I even held off a 1/1/1 after the second time from a platinum terran player. My protoss buddy said see how frustrating the 1/1/1 is? I said umm dude, I feel like this every time I play protoss…lol He then asked you think ghost is op now? I said no not really I just spread out my ht’s as if banelings were headed my way so the ones that don’t get hit… “storm” The ones that do archons.
Anyways, I’m not giving up. I love playing terran, I just occasionally get so frustrated that I let my anger get the best of me, but I know sooner or later I’ll get better it just takes practice. This is my first RTS ever so I have a feeling that it will take me longer than most. I just hope not too long 
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EPT
