EPT
On February 19 2012 12:46 Dalavita wrote:
You want to make banshees and tanks against protoss.. Do you realize how gas expensive that is? Especially for something that will lose to pure chargelot phoenix who also double up as tank lifters.
Also, on BC pushes. I don't see why you'd want to get a BC when you can just make a thor, which is way more powerful for easier tech.
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2012 12:05 xUnSeEnx wrote:
True to an extent, although tanks are viable in TvP if you use cloaked banshees effectively. Could force the toss to switch to more stalkers which tanks are good at killing. Yes, occasionally toss will switch to mass chareglots or immortals. Immortals are never a problem with marines, and if he goes collosus, A-Move your banshees into his base and kill all the pylons.... (Gg) Protoss is actually not hard to beat if you go Bio/Mech (Blueflame hellions and marines behind the tanks, chargelots charge in, kills all chargelots and tanks focus fire collosus) anyways I can go through a better game plan or send some replays if you want, just hit me up.
On to the BC issue, (Lol at no ground to air protoss efficiency.) You do realize a good protoss will just feedback all your BCs? and what do you waste your Yamatos on in time before getting feedbacked? Nothing. BC is probably going to become a 2-Base strat play against toss but not late game, they arent viable enough. Void Rays and pheonix combined rape BCs, not to mention 400 (exaggeration) stalkers.
On February 19 2012 09:52 s3rp wrote:
Only 1 thing is wrong here the tank def. a reason why Mech is not very effective against Toss since it's zoning is basically non-existant in TvP beyond the midgame. Tanks are good in TvT and TvZ because you can setup nice tankslines where every tanks covers the other because tanks will 1/2 or at least 3 shot the enemies units. In TvP it just doesn't work that way.
BC's well the problem of the BC is just its lack of mobility it's just so easy to ignore and run past it . They also don't deal that much damage. Yeah they're beefy and have good armor but that doesn't help you if you struggle to find a position to use it in.
On February 19 2012 09:28 Cyro wrote:
Double forge was used before the upgrade cost buff, months before, as were warp prisms, one of the MC vs Puma games that people got most upset over TvP "imbalance" involved a warp prism getting killed off near instantly by a few marines and the protoss army getting rolled immidiatly after.
Buffing it from 40 shields to 100 makes it a significantly stronger unit, and now it can actuly complete a warp before it dies to a single stimmed marine.
The thor strategy was very very near unstoppable, requiring very tight specific response that put you on the edge of death every time you faced it, tyler even said he was playing around with immortal phoenix and graviton beams to break strike cannons (innovation much?) but eventuly it was taken out of the game because it was deemed too powerful to be dealt with even after scouting extremely early on.
Blue Flame was dominant in all three matchups and very quickly became THE way to play TvT, bio fell off completely and was replaced by blue flame hellion > tank > thor > viking > raven > battlecruiser play with a ton of orbital commands, leading into games such as Boxer vs Rain at MLG, which went well over an hour without a major engagement (and that was before the style was even figured out well) so every terran vs terran in the future would have become the same, linear, non-adaptive strategy that lead into 1hour+ games without major engagements.
In all three matchups it also allowed a terran who slid behind through ex a 20 minute game to instantly become ahead if his opponent slipped up for just a second, as it only took 2 hellions (much easier to line up and harder to prevent than 3) to oneshot half a mineral line.
Im not really sure about battlecruisers, but they still seem quite powerful against all protoss air, and there is no good ground-to-air for protoss in bigger supply numbers, i can definatly see new strategies involving them popping up in the future.
Mech is still good with 35(50) damage on tanks, its relative weakness in sc2 is not caused directly by lack of tank damage.
Ghosts are tier 1.5, not tier 3, and you can have them extremely early in the game.
On February 18 2012 21:36 Snowbear wrote:
Toss players never found out about "upgrading quickly". Blizzard buffed their upgrade costs. Same for warpprism usage: blizzard buffed the warpprism.
Terrans are the big innovators:
- thors in tvp --> nerf thor
- blueflame hellion strats --> nerf the hellion
- battlecruisers in tvp --> nerf the damage from bc's
- mech --> nerf the tanks from 60 damage to 35 (LOL)
- finally a tier 3 unit that has a chance against the VERY STRONG hive + infestor composition --> nerf it so it can't be used.
I would like to remind blizzard about the state of TvZ before people started using ghosts. During that time, David Kim even said in an interview that they were going to look into infestor + broodlord.
On February 18 2012 21:22 ReseT wrote:
AZN is New Zealand I think? I might be wrong..
Anyways, for all of you complaining about the ghost, please stop crying. You think this is bad? How do you think us Protoss felt when they took the amulet from us? We're still surviving aren't we? There's always another option, you're just going to have to find it and adapt. For example, when toss had no amulet we started to notice "Oh, if we upgrade quickly, our army can be strong enough without colossus to go to HT and and rack up energy". There is always another option, and honestly I feel like ravens would be such an awesome idea. I love the unit and I feel like if played correctly, they can actually make some entertaining games.
As to Blizzard putting the patch before a tournament.. Lol... It's like back in MLG when the medivac nerf came.. ]
Edit: FiveOhFive, Protoss got a shit ton of nerfs..
On February 18 2012 13:16 vileIllusion wrote:
Do they do this to see how the game runs in tournaments? Seems to happen alot....... Also what is ANZ server?
Do they do this to see how the game runs in tournaments? Seems to happen alot....... Also what is ANZ server?
AZN is New Zealand I think? I might be wrong..
Anyways, for all of you complaining about the ghost, please stop crying. You think this is bad? How do you think us Protoss felt when they took the amulet from us? We're still surviving aren't we? There's always another option, you're just going to have to find it and adapt. For example, when toss had no amulet we started to notice "Oh, if we upgrade quickly, our army can be strong enough without colossus to go to HT and and rack up energy". There is always another option, and honestly I feel like ravens would be such an awesome idea. I love the unit and I feel like if played correctly, they can actually make some entertaining games.
As to Blizzard putting the patch before a tournament.. Lol... It's like back in MLG when the medivac nerf came.. ]
Edit: FiveOhFive, Protoss got a shit ton of nerfs..
Toss players never found out about "upgrading quickly". Blizzard buffed their upgrade costs. Same for warpprism usage: blizzard buffed the warpprism.
Terrans are the big innovators:
- thors in tvp --> nerf thor
- blueflame hellion strats --> nerf the hellion
- battlecruisers in tvp --> nerf the damage from bc's
- mech --> nerf the tanks from 60 damage to 35 (LOL)
- finally a tier 3 unit that has a chance against the VERY STRONG hive + infestor composition --> nerf it so it can't be used.
I would like to remind blizzard about the state of TvZ before people started using ghosts. During that time, David Kim even said in an interview that they were going to look into infestor + broodlord.
Double forge was used before the upgrade cost buff, months before, as were warp prisms, one of the MC vs Puma games that people got most upset over TvP "imbalance" involved a warp prism getting killed off near instantly by a few marines and the protoss army getting rolled immidiatly after.
Buffing it from 40 shields to 100 makes it a significantly stronger unit, and now it can actuly complete a warp before it dies to a single stimmed marine.
The thor strategy was very very near unstoppable, requiring very tight specific response that put you on the edge of death every time you faced it, tyler even said he was playing around with immortal phoenix and graviton beams to break strike cannons (innovation much?) but eventuly it was taken out of the game because it was deemed too powerful to be dealt with even after scouting extremely early on.
Blue Flame was dominant in all three matchups and very quickly became THE way to play TvT, bio fell off completely and was replaced by blue flame hellion > tank > thor > viking > raven > battlecruiser play with a ton of orbital commands, leading into games such as Boxer vs Rain at MLG, which went well over an hour without a major engagement (and that was before the style was even figured out well) so every terran vs terran in the future would have become the same, linear, non-adaptive strategy that lead into 1hour+ games without major engagements.
In all three matchups it also allowed a terran who slid behind through ex a 20 minute game to instantly become ahead if his opponent slipped up for just a second, as it only took 2 hellions (much easier to line up and harder to prevent than 3) to oneshot half a mineral line.
Im not really sure about battlecruisers, but they still seem quite powerful against all protoss air, and there is no good ground-to-air for protoss in bigger supply numbers, i can definatly see new strategies involving them popping up in the future.
Mech is still good with 35(50) damage on tanks, its relative weakness in sc2 is not caused directly by lack of tank damage.
Ghosts are tier 1.5, not tier 3, and you can have them extremely early in the game.
Only 1 thing is wrong here the tank def. a reason why Mech is not very effective against Toss since it's zoning is basically non-existant in TvP beyond the midgame. Tanks are good in TvT and TvZ because you can setup nice tankslines where every tanks covers the other because tanks will 1/2 or at least 3 shot the enemies units. In TvP it just doesn't work that way.
BC's well the problem of the BC is just its lack of mobility it's just so easy to ignore and run past it . They also don't deal that much damage. Yeah they're beefy and have good armor but that doesn't help you if you struggle to find a position to use it in.
True to an extent, although tanks are viable in TvP if you use cloaked banshees effectively. Could force the toss to switch to more stalkers which tanks are good at killing. Yes, occasionally toss will switch to mass chareglots or immortals. Immortals are never a problem with marines, and if he goes collosus, A-Move your banshees into his base and kill all the pylons.... (Gg) Protoss is actually not hard to beat if you go Bio/Mech (Blueflame hellions and marines behind the tanks, chargelots charge in, kills all chargelots and tanks focus fire collosus) anyways I can go through a better game plan or send some replays if you want, just hit me up.
On to the BC issue, (Lol at no ground to air protoss efficiency.) You do realize a good protoss will just feedback all your BCs? and what do you waste your Yamatos on in time before getting feedbacked? Nothing. BC is probably going to become a 2-Base strat play against toss but not late game, they arent viable enough. Void Rays and pheonix combined rape BCs, not to mention 400 (exaggeration) stalkers.
You want to make banshees and tanks against protoss.. Do you realize how gas expensive that is? Especially for something that will lose to pure chargelot phoenix who also double up as tank lifters.
Also, on BC pushes. I don't see why you'd want to get a BC when you can just make a thor, which is way more powerful for easier tech.
I actually watched beastyqt win a long game with a thor/banshee/marine composition once, it was pretty cool.
Also, there some 1-2 base allins where you can go tank/banshee.
. I know this will never happen, but the only way blizzard makes more money off sc2 is to make money off tournaments and extra add-ons - such as pay for name change and such.
