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On February 15 2012 12:52 LambtrOn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 10:24 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Out of extreme curiosity:
What are you doing in regards to the fact that Gold Passes were advertised as offering Access to HQ Pro Circuit Live Broadcasts, when in fact they no longer do?
It's pretty clear you're marketing the Winter Arena as part of the Pro Circuit, and even amended the Gold Membership terms after the fact, without any prior notification (or change on parts of the site). Please address this. Pretty upset gold member here. I feel tricked. I find a $5 discount really cheap. I feel like you've shafted the group of people most loyal to you.
You won't get anything out of it. They already issued the 5$ rebate. To adjust one more time would mean to loose even more face. If they'd change it again, they could as well start anew from scratch- which is unlikely given the short amount of time till the event.
The best thing you can hope for is them trying to stay under the radar, exposing as little surface area possible until after the event and maybe come back with a complete turn-around. But since the other well written thread about this issue was being closed, there is a slim chance that industry big players will throw each other under the bus right before the event.
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4. SERVICE CHANGES AND DISCONTINUATION: MLG reserves the right to change or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Membership Program at any time without notice. You agree that MLG will not be liable to you or any third party for any modification or discontinuance of the Services.
https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_service
What MLG did is not illegal because all of the members agreed to it being ok in the terms of service. It sucks but that's just the way it is.
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On February 15 2012 15:29 Spaceneil8 wrote:4. SERVICE CHANGES AND DISCONTINUATION: MLG reserves the right to change or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Membership Program at any time without notice. You agree that MLG will not be liable to you or any third party for any modification or discontinuance of the Services. https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_serviceWhat MLG did is not illegal because all of the members agreed to it being ok in the terms of service. It sucks but that's just the way it is.
Notice: Last updated: February 2, 2012
Yes, it is very likely they'd be lawfully in the clear, since such clauses are more or less standard practice.
Second, I guess no one saved/printed a copy of the ToS at the time of purchase. The burden of proof is on the customers side.
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On February 15 2012 15:32 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 15:29 Spaceneil8 wrote:4. SERVICE CHANGES AND DISCONTINUATION: MLG reserves the right to change or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Membership Program at any time without notice. You agree that MLG will not be liable to you or any third party for any modification or discontinuance of the Services. https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_serviceWhat MLG did is not illegal because all of the members agreed to it being ok in the terms of service. It sucks but that's just the way it is. Notice: Last updated: February 2, 2012 Yes, it is very likely they'd be lawfully in the clear, since such clauses are more or less standard practice. Second, I guess no one saved/printed a copy of the ToS at the time of purchase. The burden of proof is on the customers side.
That sort of stuff can be easily found in discovery. Terms of Service is a legal document, ninja-edits are a big no-no. MLG can be ordered by the court to produce the relevant ToS.
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I do not have a gold pass but IF I did I would feel extremely disappointed this was not included.
I have bought the last 4 MLG passes and its been good though a bit laggy from time to time however 20$ is double the cost I feel is appropriate for such a great LAN event especially as I am in Europe and it will be very late. Yes there are VODS but I may as well wait a week and watch them at my leisure.
There is so much terrific content now and alot of it free. Yes you have alot (Most of the cream Europe will be at Assembly - a free product I believe?) of the greatest players on Earth turning up but your pricing structure is wrong this time. Next time half the price, make more money amd your customers will be content too.
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On February 15 2012 15:39 Ireniicus wrote:
I do not have a gold pass but IF I did I would feel extremely disappointed this was not included.
I have bought the last 4 MLG passes and its been good though a bit laggy from time to time however 20$ is double the cost I feel is appropriate for such a great LAN event especially as I am in Europe and it will be very late. Yes there are VODS but I may as well wait a week and watch them at my leisure.
There is so much terrific content now and alot of it free. Yes you have alot (Most of the cream Europe will be at Assembly - a free product I believe?) of the greatest players on Earth turning up but your pricing structure is wrong this time. Next time half the price, make more money amd your customers will be content too.
Assembly has or atleast summer assembly had free 1080p stream. Dont see why it wouldnt be free 1080p at winter assembly as well. =)
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There is ONLY one reason why you guys opened this topic: To gain sympathy from your angry viewers. It is NOT to answer some questions. There is NO questions around, there is ANGER. You guys owe us an APOLOGY topic not an announcement one.
If you guys think, this will give you profit, you are dreaming. You guys should be scared from the response of sponsors. I wonder what Sony Ericsson or Alienware will think about 95% shrinkage in viewer numbers.
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This thread just pisses me off. Someone from MLG, please respond to this:
On February 15 2012 10:24 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Out of extreme curiosity:
What are you doing in regards to the fact that Gold Passes were advertised as offering Access to HQ Pro Circuit Live Broadcasts, when in fact they no longer do?
It's pretty clear you're marketing the Winter Arena as part of the Pro Circuit, and even amended the Gold Membership terms after the fact, without any prior notification (or change on parts of the site).
Gold members are obviously getting screwed, and they are the ones who were the most loyal in the first place.
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On February 15 2012 13:41 YMCApylons wrote:
This is a PR thread and a joke. VirgilSC2 asked direct questions to the MLG staff, and they are still beaming their used-car-salesman smiles, answering softball questions, while ignoring giant fiery balls of lava being thrown at them.
Not only will I not spend one cent on MLG Arena, I'll stop watching MLG completely, because of this thread. TL is not a fucking press conference.
To MLG staff - you can ignore this, but everyone else can still read it.
I read it. You got a fan club I could join or news letter? xD
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The PR for this event is so haphazard one wonders what is going on behind the scenes. They announce the PPV aspect just 10 days before the event and then start backpedaling immediately after the backlash to their bad PR hits.
From a business standpoint, this new pro circuit package has not been conveyed in a professional manner. Next time, all the details should just be released at the beginning of the year.
Also, almost forgot to mention. All the new from MLG in recent months, the mass layoffs, cutting the shows and articles, and this last minute rush to grab some cash from the winter arena all smells of a business that overextended themselves by spending too much. Maybe a lesson learned is to take these things slow, there is no need to up the prize pool and production value tremendously, baby steps are just fine.
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I'm not paying 20 bucks for this end of story. If it was 10 bucks then maybe.
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On February 15 2012 15:49 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 13:41 YMCApylons wrote:
This is a PR thread and a joke. VirgilSC2 asked direct questions to the MLG staff, and they are still beaming their used-car-salesman smiles, answering softball questions, while ignoring giant fiery balls of lava being thrown at them.
Not only will I not spend one cent on MLG Arena, I'll stop watching MLG completely, because of this thread. TL is not a fucking press conference.
To MLG staff - you can ignore this, but everyone else can still read it. I read it. You got a fan club I could join or news letter? xD
Lol, no, but there are two people you should be fans of:
VirgilSC2 - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=VirgilSC2
BronzeKnee - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=BronzeKnee
They're the ones who, to my knowledge, first made the case that what MLG was doing is not just wrong in a BM way, but possibly legally wrong. As in fraudulent. Once I saw that, my perspective shifted. Blindly giving money to anyone waving the "e-sports" banner is a idiotic. Demand ethical, legal business practices. It's ultimately better for the SC2 community as a whole.
The full case for why what MLG did is not just unethical, but illegal, is made in a closed thread by BronzeKnee in SC2 General Forum. The thread lasted 14 minutes. Out of respect to the TL mods, I won't post a link, but you can find it in his post history. TL closed the thread to protect themselves, which is understandable and reasonable. But TL is the SC2 community, so we do need a find a way to talk about this on TL.
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On February 15 2012 15:38 YMCApylons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 15:32 rotegirte wrote:On February 15 2012 15:29 Spaceneil8 wrote:4. SERVICE CHANGES AND DISCONTINUATION: MLG reserves the right to change or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Membership Program at any time without notice. You agree that MLG will not be liable to you or any third party for any modification or discontinuance of the Services. https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_serviceWhat MLG did is not illegal because all of the members agreed to it being ok in the terms of service. It sucks but that's just the way it is. Notice: Last updated: February 2, 2012 Yes, it is very likely they'd be lawfully in the clear, since such clauses are more or less standard practice. Second, I guess no one saved/printed a copy of the ToS at the time of purchase. The burden of proof is on the customers side. That sort of stuff can be easily found in discovery. Terms of Service is a legal document, ninja-edits are a big no-no. MLG can be ordered by the court to produce the relevant ToS.
But this kind of thing is something that would have been included in the ToS in the first place. I haven't seen the relevant ToS, but I highly doubt it wouldn't be there.
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On February 15 2012 16:34 Spaceneil8 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 15:38 YMCApylons wrote:On February 15 2012 15:32 rotegirte wrote:On February 15 2012 15:29 Spaceneil8 wrote:4. SERVICE CHANGES AND DISCONTINUATION: MLG reserves the right to change or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Membership Program at any time without notice. You agree that MLG will not be liable to you or any third party for any modification or discontinuance of the Services. https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_serviceWhat MLG did is not illegal because all of the members agreed to it being ok in the terms of service. It sucks but that's just the way it is. Notice: Last updated: February 2, 2012 Yes, it is very likely they'd be lawfully in the clear, since such clauses are more or less standard practice. Second, I guess no one saved/printed a copy of the ToS at the time of purchase. The burden of proof is on the customers side. That sort of stuff can be easily found in discovery. Terms of Service is a legal document, ninja-edits are a big no-no. MLG can be ordered by the court to produce the relevant ToS. But this kind of thing is something that would have been included in the ToS in the first place. I haven't seen the relevant ToS, but I highly doubt it wouldn't be there.
That's possible, but that would simply make the case for fraudulent advertising even stronger. It's not enough that it's in the ToS. The advertising used to sell the Gold Membership has to accurately reflect the ToS. The further away the actual ToS is from the advertising, the stronger the case for fraud. The closer the ToS is to the original advertising, the stronger the claim for breach of contract. It's pick your poison for MLG.
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MLG really messed this up
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On February 15 2012 15:45 Shagg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 15:39 Ireniicus wrote:
I do not have a gold pass but IF I did I would feel extremely disappointed this was not included.
I have bought the last 4 MLG passes and its been good though a bit laggy from time to time however 20$ is double the cost I feel is appropriate for such a great LAN event especially as I am in Europe and it will be very late. Yes there are VODS but I may as well wait a week and watch them at my leisure.
There is so much terrific content now and alot of it free. Yes you have alot (Most of the cream Europe will be at Assembly - a free product I believe?) of the greatest players on Earth turning up but your pricing structure is wrong this time. Next time half the price, make more money amd your customers will be content too.
Assembly has or atleast summer assembly had free 1080p stream. Dont see why it wouldnt be free 1080p at winter assembly as well. =)
TWO free 1080p English cast streams! TB+apollo as well as Mr.Bitter+Khaldor (and mouzKaelaris substituting in for breaks)!
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Hah man, the casting and playing lineup is better for MLG imo (if RotterdaM was at Assembly that would be different :D), but 20$ for 2 days, that's just really expensive.
I think they would have made much more money with a lower price, like 5 dollars or even 10. It's surely not gaining them long term customers anyway...
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ahahahaha
so this is why chill (in a joke way) said TSL4 would have a $20 bill in that other guy blog
ahaha xD yea right 20 bucks omg ahahaha
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You guys have pulled a bait and switch on your gold members, the people who were most willing to support your organization. I genuinely feel, as has been posted by others, that your behavior was at the very least either false advertising or breach of contract. I paid you $30 for access to your content for this year. If you decide that wasn't enough money, tough shit, you still owe me the content; it's no different than if I decided that it was too much money and demanded $15 back.
No one has a financial stake in this big enough to make it worth our while to actually try to go after you legally for your dishonest behavior, but if you don't backtrack in a big way in a serious hurry, you can kiss your future subscription revenues good bye. I've already cancelled my gold membership, and I can't see myself or anyone else who's aware of your willingness to redefine the benefits of your subscription packages being gullible enough to pay for a year of content in advance ever again.
Honor the agreements you made with your customers. If you need more money, make your subscriptions more expensive and explain the circumstances, but don't renege on promises made to the people who were willing to support you in producing your content a year in advance. We supported you, and you shafted us. There are a lot of seriously pissed off people out here, and none of your answers have addressed our concerns in any meaningful way.
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You don't seem to understand the amount of content this is. And the players are amazing. It's defently worth 20$
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EPT
