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Good read Alex. I do not agree with the price tag for this event at all. 20$ isn't a lot of money for me, but its just the timing and the huge price tag compared to other product. Does MLG think they have such a superior product that it warrants the huge price tag ?
10$ would be ok I guess. I still think its kind of a dick move to announce the price 11 days before the event. And what about Gold members ? I'd feel ripped off.
The whole thing stinks, and it makes me question the loyalty I've had through 2011 with MLG. I would purchase the HQ ticket no mater how bad the event was. Now, my feelings about MLG is shifting. It feels like a money grab move, and I can't wrap my mind around what the business idea off this was \ is. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall during that board meeting.
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I agree that the price point is too high. Especially for introducing something this large of a scale to MLG (at least in my experience it's the first time) I feel that $20 is setting the bar too high. I understand that it's best to start high, then drop the price low because vice versa gets your very bad reactions, YET, as Alex stated this is a very understanding community, one that is willing to help out and pay dutiful amounts.
I feel a $10 price point would suffice, to start off with, but as this continues fluctuation of the prices is key.
If I understand correctly, this $20 pass is only for the weekend viewing? That is what I would pay if I were going to the actual event, not to stream it, in probably a lower quality due to the high traffic anyway. I have yet to pay for an event, but as Alex has asked us as a community to chip in, I was more than willing to consider this, I have been following MLG closely a lot lately and enjoyed it rather thoroughly, but $20 for about 2-3 days of content is a bit high. MLG, think small.
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Netherlands23 Posts
Regarding Price Points:
The poll is a bit misleading, people will always opt for a lower pricepoint. The question is what is the sweetspot, is it 5$/10$/15$/20% there is little data to backup which is the best, so MLG is just testing the waters starting at 20$.
Regarding Business Model
I agree with the freemium model, most of all because it allows for growth. By completely locking down your content behind a paywall you are significantly stunting your growth potential as a business. Luckly MLG isn't the only player in the field (Dreamhack, IPL, GSL) and there is room for experimenting however giving a heads up (x months) to teams depending on exposure would be preferable (at least then they can then readjust expectations to sponsors)
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On February 15 2012 00:29 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:05 quantumslip wrote:On February 15 2012 00:01 NoobSkills wrote:
The Free Model works for the NFL. Sundance is Scrooge minus the revalation at the end of the story.
Wasn't Sundance on a talk show boasting that MLG alone is a 150 million dollar buisness each year? Holding only what 5 events (i think) last year. They are just trying to make money and I won't give them a dime. I don't like paying for the GSL either, but they keep advertising simple and reasonable. During the cast the sponsors are given a few shoutouts, but nothing crazy and when watching a vod there is a simple 15(ish) second commercial that doesn't have the volume boosted so fucking loud that I have to mute my speakers. If teams were getting more of the money and the prize pools were much larger at MLG events I could perhaps justify paying for this, but when you brag about making 150 million, but have a low payout for every event except the final, charge the customer for a stream, and have generally less content per dollar when compared to the rest of the organizations I can't support you.
MLG - Major League Greed do please quote the $150 million, because that seems to be an outlandish accusation to make without any context/basis. http://www.fnatic.com/scene/6582/mlg-50-million-in-revenue-this-year.htmlThat was what I found. There was a video and I swear it was 150 million, but I cannot find it again. Either way 50 million is a large chunk of change. Let's say that each event costs 5 million to run (I think is costs MUCH less but htis is an example) that means in the end they profited 25 million. That is a lot of money left over. I understand having a buisness model, but if I myself were running MLG I'm sure I could find a way to pump quite a bit more back into these events and not charge viewers while still living way more than comfortable. I don't actually know what it takes to host/run one of these, I just think this new model is a greedy one.
ok hosting an event in NYC is just weird, it is easily one of the most expensive places in the US.
You are better off doing this in Atlantic city or something. I mean AC is easily accessible to most of the people in NY, NJ and Phili.
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On February 15 2012 00:33 IcariumJhag wrote:
I don't really understand the logic behind this from MLG.
If you are going to be running advertisements you want as many viewers as possible and making it PPV is going directly against advertising revenue.
What they had last year was just about perfect, free low quality video and PPV for HD that way you get to have the cake and eat it too.
I might pay the $20 if I am going to be home for the weekend but this is a bad business model, it is not all sustainable with the SC2 demographics.
It's really simple logic. The advertising model isn't generating enough revenue to provide them profit, so they're switching to PPV. The PPV model assumes that they'll get less viewers in exchange for increased revenue per viewer.
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On February 15 2012 00:36 NLBrowncoat wrote:
Regarding Price Points:
The poll is a bit misleading, people will always opt for a lower pricepoint. The question is what is the sweetspot, is it 5$/10$/15$/20% there is little data to backup which is the best, so MLG is just testing the waters starting at 20$.
Regarding Business Model
I agree with the freemium model, most of all because it allows for growth. By completely locking down your content behind a paywall you are significantly stunting your growth potential as a business. Luckly MLG isn't the only player in the field (Dreamhack, IPL, GSL) and there is room for experimenting however giving a heads up (x months) to teams depending on exposure would be preferable (at least then they can then readjust expectations to sponsors)
They're not completely locking down their content. The Championship events (which are the main and most important events MLG runs) will still be free LQ.
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I would be less annoyed at the entire situation if MLG hadn't waited until now to announce this. If they had announced the Arenas as PPV events when they were first announced, I imagine this would have gone over better. (And yes, a slightly lower price point).
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I'm not sure that everyone with a gold membership understands that they are still getting the 4 pro circuit events this year, and therefore not missing out on anything that they were expecting. The winter arena is like adding shrimp to your steak at outback; it's a bit overpriced, but not necessary. you're still getting a pretty good steak without the addons.
i agree that gold membership should have a few more perks, like a flat 25-50% discount on additional content provided my MLG throughout the year, such as this winter arena. it just kind of ties everything together in a neat little bundle.
the price point is defnitely high. i can get GSL for a month for ~$20. this is just one weekend. i'll pay it, because MLG has been good to me in the past, and i'm loyal to those esports businesses that are still trying to figure out how to make an honest buck. but i won't be purchasing another arena pass at that price point, or either without a discount for my gold membership.
everyone can get outraged at MLG trying to make money if they like. obviously this isn't going over well, and i wouldn't be surprised to see MLG doing a little backpedalling today or tomorrow. but the unwarranted vitriol is simply astounding. for the most "mannered" gaming community, there sure are a lot of immature posts regarding this issue. MLG, and the other esports based companies out there, are all trying to find ways to monetize the games. that's what needs to happen to keep this passionate hobby alive for all of us, and a potential career for the most talented or driven of us. without being able to make a living off of this endeavor, the companies providing us fans with all this content will dry up and fade away.
Thanks Alex for the reasonable post made. I'm just a fan, and no one's going to see a post by "Essobee", and think, yeah, that guy carries a lot of weight in the community, let's stop to hear what he has to say. So hearing someone that carries some "weight" in the community voicing many of the same thought out, reasonable opinions that i share is good to see.
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On February 15 2012 00:29 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:05 quantumslip wrote:On February 15 2012 00:01 NoobSkills wrote:
The Free Model works for the NFL. Sundance is Scrooge minus the revalation at the end of the story.
Wasn't Sundance on a talk show boasting that MLG alone is a 150 million dollar buisness each year? Holding only what 5 events (i think) last year. They are just trying to make money and I won't give them a dime. I don't like paying for the GSL either, but they keep advertising simple and reasonable. During the cast the sponsors are given a few shoutouts, but nothing crazy and when watching a vod there is a simple 15(ish) second commercial that doesn't have the volume boosted so fucking loud that I have to mute my speakers. If teams were getting more of the money and the prize pools were much larger at MLG events I could perhaps justify paying for this, but when you brag about making 150 million, but have a low payout for every event except the final, charge the customer for a stream, and have generally less content per dollar when compared to the rest of the organizations I can't support you.
MLG - Major League Greed do please quote the $150 million, because that seems to be an outlandish accusation to make without any context/basis. http://www.fnatic.com/scene/6582/mlg-50-million-in-revenue-this-year.htmlThat was what I found. There was a video and I swear it was 150 million, but I cannot find it again. Either way 50 million is a large chunk of change. Let's say that each event costs 5 million to run (I think is costs MUCH less but htis is an example) that means in the end they profited 25 million. That is a lot of money left over. I understand having a buisness model, but if I myself were running MLG I'm sure I could find a way to pump quite a bit more back into these events and not charge viewers while still living way more than comfortable. I don't actually know what it takes to host/run one of these, I just think this new model is a greedy one.
Revenue is how much they made BEFORE factoring in expenses.
The number that's relevant is profits. MLG didn't make a profit, because their expenses were greater than $50 million.
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That's also from 2009 and what is relevant is their sc2 side
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On February 15 2012 00:24 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:18 RajaF wrote:On February 15 2012 00:13 TooL wrote:On February 15 2012 00:09 syllogism wrote:On February 15 2012 00:01 NoobSkills wrote:
The Free Model works for the NFL. Sundance is Scrooge minus the revalation at the end of the story.
Wasn't Sundance on a talk show boasting that MLG alone is a 150 million dollar buisness each year? Holding only what 5 events (i think) last year. They are just trying to make money and I won't give them a dime. I don't like paying for the GSL either, but they keep advertising simple and reasonable. During the cast the sponsors are given a few shoutouts, but nothing crazy and when watching a vod there is a simple 15(ish) second commercial that doesn't have the volume boosted so fucking loud that I have to mute my speakers. If teams were getting more of the money and the prize pools were much larger at MLG events I could perhaps justify paying for this, but when you brag about making 150 million, but have a low payout for every event except the final, charge the customer for a stream, and have generally less content per dollar when compared to the rest of the organizations I can't support you.
MLG - Major League Greed MLG hasn't made a single cent out of sc2 so far, I believe. You are deluded and/or ignorant why would you think that? Because Sundance managed to convince some people that MLG employees have put their lives on the line to promote and grow this scene. With comments like "We've put way more money than we made into these events". Which of course it is bullshit, since I'm pretty sure that MLG has had some financial backing (otherwise how would of they been able to prepay for the flights and accomodations already?) that is not a second mortgage on Sundance's house. Please explain how having financial backing means that MLG hasn't put more money into the events than they've made from them. The financial backing is the money they've put in.
It means that SUNDANCE has not put more money into this than he has made. Which is the claim that he made, not me. I don't know if MLG as a company is making money or not. Although (according to that 2009 article) they made 50 million in revenue. Please explain how they spent 50 MILLION dollars on their events in 2010 and more than that in 2011.
Because if it is true that they spend that much and more on these tourneys (which pay almost nothing in prizes) then they are doing it wrong and deserve to go broke.
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People qualify to the championship events from the arena, so the arena is part of the league. I would expect to get access to it with a season pass, otherwise I CBA to watch live and might just look over some vods or replays later. Pirated of course.
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On February 15 2012 00:48 SugarBear wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:29 NoobSkills wrote:On February 15 2012 00:05 quantumslip wrote:On February 15 2012 00:01 NoobSkills wrote:
The Free Model works for the NFL. Sundance is Scrooge minus the revalation at the end of the story.
Wasn't Sundance on a talk show boasting that MLG alone is a 150 million dollar buisness each year? Holding only what 5 events (i think) last year. They are just trying to make money and I won't give them a dime. I don't like paying for the GSL either, but they keep advertising simple and reasonable. During the cast the sponsors are given a few shoutouts, but nothing crazy and when watching a vod there is a simple 15(ish) second commercial that doesn't have the volume boosted so fucking loud that I have to mute my speakers. If teams were getting more of the money and the prize pools were much larger at MLG events I could perhaps justify paying for this, but when you brag about making 150 million, but have a low payout for every event except the final, charge the customer for a stream, and have generally less content per dollar when compared to the rest of the organizations I can't support you.
MLG - Major League Greed do please quote the $150 million, because that seems to be an outlandish accusation to make without any context/basis. http://www.fnatic.com/scene/6582/mlg-50-million-in-revenue-this-year.htmlThat was what I found. There was a video and I swear it was 150 million, but I cannot find it again. Either way 50 million is a large chunk of change. Let's say that each event costs 5 million to run (I think is costs MUCH less but htis is an example) that means in the end they profited 25 million. That is a lot of money left over. I understand having a buisness model, but if I myself were running MLG I'm sure I could find a way to pump quite a bit more back into these events and not charge viewers while still living way more than comfortable. I don't actually know what it takes to host/run one of these, I just think this new model is a greedy one. Revenue is how much they made BEFORE factoring in expenses. The number that's relevant is profits. MLG didn't make a profit, because their expenses were greater than $50 million.
Did you not read my post? I factored in my belief on what remaining profit would be. My belief is bullshit to be Frank. It could cost them 15 million dollars per event each year meaning they spent 75 million while only pulling in 50. My point is that if they want to run a model like this I want them to show they're in the red. I want to see sundance driving a beater and sharing an 2 bedroom appartment with 3 peple. Now even beyond that I wouldn't give them a dollar for their event because in comparison (free events or GSL) every other event has better content per dollar.
On February 15 2012 00:50 syllogism wrote:
That's also from 2009 and what is relevant is their sc2 side
Very true, but remember when you purchased a pass last season you got HD stream of every game. I'm not looking at it from just a SC2 and how profitable it is for MLG standpoint. I have an issue with them charing money period unless they can prove they need it. And then at that note if they are in need of money that means they're spending their moeny poorly as well.
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On February 15 2012 00:48 Essobee wrote:
I'm not sure that everyone with a gold membership understands that they are still getting the 4 pro circuit events this year, and therefore not missing out on anything that they were expecting. The winter arena is like adding shrimp to your steak at outback; it's a bit overpriced, but not necessary. you're still getting a pretty good steak without the addons.
Uhm, it's quite reasonable to believe that something advertised as Pro Circuit Arena would actually be included in your ticket that would cover all Pro Circuit events this year.
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It pains me... I would so pay for it, but my parents are against me paying anything more for starcraft other than the game. Sigh, I really don't wanna miss MLG... They are gonna have far better players than Assembly.
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Kind of disappointed that a lot of people wouldn't be willing to pay 10 dollars or less for a service. If I could spare 20 dollars for a weekend to watch it, I most certainly would, but I would agree that what was given in that package, 10 or 15 would be more appropriate.
Hopefully some of us would be able to understand that if we want to keep growing it, the money has to generate somewhere especially if we want the quality to go up, which it has been since the dawn of SC2 in MLG. I don't necessarily agree with the model that they're doing either, but we will see how it goes. I'm hoping there is a connection and understanding that both parties can get from it at the end.
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On February 15 2012 00:55 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:48 Essobee wrote:
I'm not sure that everyone with a gold membership understands that they are still getting the 4 pro circuit events this year, and therefore not missing out on anything that they were expecting. The winter arena is like adding shrimp to your steak at outback; it's a bit overpriced, but not necessary. you're still getting a pretty good steak without the addons.
Uhm, it's quite reasonable to believe that something advertised as Pro Circuit Arena would actually be included in your ticket that would cover all Pro Circuit events this year.
You can't expect something that didn't even exist by the time of purchase.
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On February 15 2012 00:56 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
It pains me... I would so pay for it, but my parents are against me paying anything more for starcraft other than the game. Sigh, I really don't wanna miss MLG... They are gonna have far better players than Assembly.
My parents when I was younger thought the same way. I got a job. 4 hours of minimum wage pages for a weekend of footage even though in my opinion it isn't worth it.
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On February 15 2012 00:57 Soap wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:55 Longshank wrote:On February 15 2012 00:48 Essobee wrote:
I'm not sure that everyone with a gold membership understands that they are still getting the 4 pro circuit events this year, and therefore not missing out on anything that they were expecting. The winter arena is like adding shrimp to your steak at outback; it's a bit overpriced, but not necessary. you're still getting a pretty good steak without the addons.
Uhm, it's quite reasonable to believe that something advertised as Pro Circuit Arena would actually be included in your ticket that would cover all Pro Circuit events this year. You can't expect something that didn't even exist by the time of purchase.
The Pro Circuit existed. The Gold membership we promised to cover all Pro Circuit events.
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From a student perspective the price is indeed too high. Maybe having a per-game payment option would help bring in those who only want to see a few games (for me I would only watch from the semi-finals to the end because I simply do not have the time to watch every single game due to my school work). 5$/game would seem fine for me, that way those who only want to watch the finals can without having to shell out 20$ and it also offers the 20$/weekend deal as a discount.
''5$/game OR 20$ for the entire weekend'' would bring more viewers than just the 20$/weekend deal.
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EPT
