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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
This does bring back the arguement about implementing TLTV though. If I could pay TL to run a stream with most of the esports/sc2 content on it (like a tv channel), I would pay for that. But $20 for a single 2 day tournament? Absolutely not.
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On February 17 2012 04:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 04:09 bovineblitz wrote:
All this esports this, esports that is ridiculous. I can easily afford this tournament but paying to watch is conceptually a little ridiculous to me. Im okay with a nominal fee, I pay for GSL because it's not much for what I get. Asking me too pay a significant amount of money for one tournament will never fly with me. I could just go play the game and be entertained.
I think all the esports bickering is so stupid. I don't really care about the ramifications for esports, I care about watching sc2. It baffles me to see people saying they'll pay to support the future. It reminds me how many kids watch this game. As I said I can certainly afford 20 bucks but when I spend my money I expect value. Donating pity money to this naive notion of supporting esports is so absurd. Pay for content you want and if it is viable as a businesses it will work out naturally. A few hundred n kids making small occasional donations accomplishes nothing. This is about personal economics. Only consider your own perspective in this situation, to do anything else is naively idealistic. I am not idealistic, I just want to give MLG a shot. I have enjoyed what I have seen over the last year and I am willing to risk $20 to see if the event is worth it. However, I think the idea that no Esports even should charge money and it should be free and make money off ads is dumb. I would even call it naively idealistic.
If I'm not mistaken, BW has been free to watch on Korean TV channels and internet for about 10 years. Only after the announcement/launch of SC2 is that sponsors started to backing out and teams to disband.
Or it might have been just coincidence, who knows.
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On February 17 2012 04:35 guluru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 04:32 Excludos wrote:On February 17 2012 04:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I like what Doa and Destiny and Rumcake said last night before the Axslav vs. Gretorp showmatch:
Do they have a right to charge us money for this event?
Absolutely. It's not like there isn't plenty of free MLG content out there. They're simply testing the waters with a pay-per-view concept. It's not like everyone is going to charge us money for viewing every event all of a sudden.
Do they have a right to charge $20, as opposed to a different amount of money?
Absolutely. Quite frankly, we're spoiled rotten by having nearly everything starcraft-related being free. 20 dollars is nothing. The whole "boo hoo I'm a poor college student" is nonsense. You probably tweet that from your iphone while buying a case of beer. If you really want to see it, you can shell out the few dollars. If you don't think it's worth 20 dollars, then don't buy the product and enjoy the other free content. But it's MLG's event, so they can name their price. They'll find out how big of an audience they end up getting, and adjust accordingly next time.
The problem is that MLG gold members probably assumed they would have free access to special events like these, simply by virtue of buying passes already. Discounts don't really cut it, and I pretty much agree with the slight betrayal that those people are feeling. But as far as everyone else goes... seriously, suck it up. Plenty of sports have some pay-per-view content. 99.99% of our stuff is absolutely free. Some of the whining about business is really exaggerated. Right. You see we are poor -because- we have an interest in computers. Do you really want me to go without a propper phone so I can watch starcraft 2 for a day? Sure I have a good computer, but that is my hobby. Without it, I wouldn't have this interest in sc2 to begin with. But alas. I'm sure you have all the right in the world to say how $20 is nothing in your fulltime job. edit: also. of course MLG can put the price they want. Who are we to stop them? If they want to charge 1000 bucks for an hour of watching. Go ahead. But they will lose some viewers in the process. We're trying to argue whats best for MLG, the community and esports in general here. Not what you personally can afford to pay. I hate the college student argument. I'm in college, I manage my money and I am able to pay for this. I would've spent $20 doing something else during the weekend anyways
I also just hate the "you're probably writing this from your iphone" argument as to why students aren't poor. I manage fine economically too. But that doesn't make $20 any more affordable.
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On February 17 2012 04:26 Excludos wrote:
You're ruining esports!
I kind of see why, but I think $20 is too much for most people for only 2 days of sc2. Especially for students, and we make up for a big cunch of the community. I will be attending a local barcraft thought, if its not filled up like last time. But last time the bar closed before the finals was even started, because its so late. So even that isn't really optimal. On top of that a ton of people don't have a local barcraft to go to, so the idea of "Don't want to pay? Just attent a local barcraft!" is not a solution.
It's a 3 day event, but has roughly 100 hours of content, based on what Sundance said. I'm a student with a job, who not only has to pay for school, but also rent. $20 is not that much. You can live without beer or a couple of nights out to dinner. And Sundance also made another suggestion, pool your money.
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On February 17 2012 04:37 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 04:35 guluru wrote:On February 17 2012 04:32 Excludos wrote:On February 17 2012 04:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I like what Doa and Destiny and Rumcake said last night before the Axslav vs. Gretorp showmatch:
Do they have a right to charge us money for this event?
Absolutely. It's not like there isn't plenty of free MLG content out there. They're simply testing the waters with a pay-per-view concept. It's not like everyone is going to charge us money for viewing every event all of a sudden.
Do they have a right to charge $20, as opposed to a different amount of money?
Absolutely. Quite frankly, we're spoiled rotten by having nearly everything starcraft-related being free. 20 dollars is nothing. The whole "boo hoo I'm a poor college student" is nonsense. You probably tweet that from your iphone while buying a case of beer. If you really want to see it, you can shell out the few dollars. If you don't think it's worth 20 dollars, then don't buy the product and enjoy the other free content. But it's MLG's event, so they can name their price. They'll find out how big of an audience they end up getting, and adjust accordingly next time.
The problem is that MLG gold members probably assumed they would have free access to special events like these, simply by virtue of buying passes already. Discounts don't really cut it, and I pretty much agree with the slight betrayal that those people are feeling. But as far as everyone else goes... seriously, suck it up. Plenty of sports have some pay-per-view content. 99.99% of our stuff is absolutely free. Some of the whining about business is really exaggerated. Right. You see we are poor -because- we have an interest in computers. Do you really want me to go without a propper phone so I can watch starcraft 2 for a day? Sure I have a good computer, but that is my hobby. Without it, I wouldn't have this interest in sc2 to begin with. But alas. I'm sure you have all the right in the world to say how $20 is nothing in your fulltime job. edit: also. of course MLG can put the price they want. Who are we to stop them? If they want to charge 1000 bucks for an hour of watching. Go ahead. But they will lose some viewers in the process. We're trying to argue whats best for MLG, the community and esports in general here. Not what you personally can afford to pay. I hate the college student argument. I'm in college, I manage my money and I am able to pay for this. I would've spent $20 doing something else during the weekend anyways I also just hate the "you're probably writing this from your iphone" arguement as to why students aren't poor. I manage fine to. But that doesn't make $20 any more affordable.
Nope I'm writing this from my computer. Scholarships help a lot ya know?
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On February 17 2012 04:38 Ercster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 04:26 Excludos wrote:
You're ruining esports!
I kind of see why, but I think $20 is too much for most people for only 2 days of sc2. Especially for students, and we make up for a big cunch of the community. I will be attending a local barcraft thought, if its not filled up like last time. But last time the bar closed before the finals was even started, because its so late. So even that isn't really optimal. On top of that a ton of people don't have a local barcraft to go to, so the idea of "Don't want to pay? Just attent a local barcraft!" is not a solution. It's a 3 day event, but has roughly 100 hours of content, based on what Sundance said. I'm a student with a job, who not only has to pay for school, but also rent. $20 is not that much. You can live without beer or a couple of nights out to dinner. And Sundance also made another suggestion, pool your money.
Again. Whatever is affordable for you might not be affordable for me.. Don't know why people go "but I'm a student and I'll gladly pay!" as en excuse to all students will have no problem paying this amount.
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On February 17 2012 04:38 guluru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 04:37 Excludos wrote:On February 17 2012 04:35 guluru wrote:On February 17 2012 04:32 Excludos wrote:On February 17 2012 04:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I like what Doa and Destiny and Rumcake said last night before the Axslav vs. Gretorp showmatch:
Do they have a right to charge us money for this event?
Absolutely. It's not like there isn't plenty of free MLG content out there. They're simply testing the waters with a pay-per-view concept. It's not like everyone is going to charge us money for viewing every event all of a sudden.
Do they have a right to charge $20, as opposed to a different amount of money?
Absolutely. Quite frankly, we're spoiled rotten by having nearly everything starcraft-related being free. 20 dollars is nothing. The whole "boo hoo I'm a poor college student" is nonsense. You probably tweet that from your iphone while buying a case of beer. If you really want to see it, you can shell out the few dollars. If you don't think it's worth 20 dollars, then don't buy the product and enjoy the other free content. But it's MLG's event, so they can name their price. They'll find out how big of an audience they end up getting, and adjust accordingly next time.
The problem is that MLG gold members probably assumed they would have free access to special events like these, simply by virtue of buying passes already. Discounts don't really cut it, and I pretty much agree with the slight betrayal that those people are feeling. But as far as everyone else goes... seriously, suck it up. Plenty of sports have some pay-per-view content. 99.99% of our stuff is absolutely free. Some of the whining about business is really exaggerated. Right. You see we are poor -because- we have an interest in computers. Do you really want me to go without a propper phone so I can watch starcraft 2 for a day? Sure I have a good computer, but that is my hobby. Without it, I wouldn't have this interest in sc2 to begin with. But alas. I'm sure you have all the right in the world to say how $20 is nothing in your fulltime job. edit: also. of course MLG can put the price they want. Who are we to stop them? If they want to charge 1000 bucks for an hour of watching. Go ahead. But they will lose some viewers in the process. We're trying to argue whats best for MLG, the community and esports in general here. Not what you personally can afford to pay. I hate the college student argument. I'm in college, I manage my money and I am able to pay for this. I would've spent $20 doing something else during the weekend anyways I also just hate the "you're probably writing this from your iphone" arguement as to why students aren't poor. I manage fine to. But that doesn't make $20 any more affordable. Nope I'm writing this from my computer. Scholarships help a lot ya know?
You missed my point completely
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Maybe if i cancel my Gold MLG membership i can afford this one weekend tournament!!!
Not that the money is a problem, just am quite sad the only thing gold-members get (the ones who first said to MLG here's our money we believe in your product!!) is a lousy $5 discount.....
So out of principle I'll just watch Assembly.
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On February 17 2012 04:39 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 04:38 Ercster wrote:On February 17 2012 04:26 Excludos wrote:
You're ruining esports!
I kind of see why, but I think $20 is too much for most people for only 2 days of sc2. Especially for students, and we make up for a big cunch of the community. I will be attending a local barcraft thought, if its not filled up like last time. But last time the bar closed before the finals was even started, because its so late. So even that isn't really optimal. On top of that a ton of people don't have a local barcraft to go to, so the idea of "Don't want to pay? Just attent a local barcraft!" is not a solution. It's a 3 day event, but has roughly 100 hours of content, based on what Sundance said. I'm a student with a job, who not only has to pay for school, but also rent. $20 is not that much. You can live without beer or a couple of nights out to dinner. And Sundance also made another suggestion, pool your money. Again. Whatever is affordable for you might not be affordable for me.. Don't know why people go "but I'm a student and I'll gladly pay!" as en excuse to all students will have no problem paying this amount.
Because it's proving the point that saying you are student isn't a reason for not paying. You don't have to be a student to not be able to pay. You also don't have to be not a student to pay. Being a college student shouldn't be an excuse or classification.
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On February 17 2012 04:32 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 04:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I like what Doa and Destiny and Rumcake said last night before the Axslav vs. Gretorp showmatch:
Do they have a right to charge us money for this event?
Absolutely. It's not like there isn't plenty of free MLG content out there. They're simply testing the waters with a pay-per-view concept. It's not like everyone is going to charge us money for viewing every event all of a sudden.
Do they have a right to charge $20, as opposed to a different amount of money?
Absolutely. Quite frankly, we're spoiled rotten by having nearly everything starcraft-related being free. 20 dollars is nothing. The whole "boo hoo I'm a poor college student" is nonsense. You probably tweet that from your iphone while buying a case of beer. If you really want to see it, you can shell out the few dollars. If you don't think it's worth 20 dollars, then don't buy the product and enjoy the other free content. But it's MLG's event, so they can name their price. They'll find out how big of an audience they end up getting, and adjust accordingly next time.
The problem is that MLG gold members probably assumed they would have free access to special events like these, simply by virtue of buying passes already. Discounts don't really cut it, and I pretty much agree with the slight betrayal that those people are feeling. But as far as everyone else goes... seriously, suck it up. Plenty of sports have some pay-per-view content. 99.99% of our stuff is absolutely free. Some of the whining about business is really exaggerated. Right. You see we are poor -because- we have an interest in computers. Do you really want me to go without a propper phone so I can watch starcraft 2 for a day? Sure I have a good computer, but that is my hobby. Without it, I wouldn't have this interest in sc2 to begin with. But alas. I'm sure you have all the right in the world to say how $20 is nothing in your fulltime job. edit: also. of course MLG can put the price they want. Who are we to stop them? If they want to charge 1000 bucks for an hour of watching. Go ahead. But they will lose some viewers in the process. We're trying to argue whats best for MLG, the community and esports in general here. Not what you personally can afford to pay.
Except I'm also a poor college student (I don't have a full time job) and I can shell out 20 bucks if I need to. And so can you, considering you have no problem going out for dinner and drinks but don't want to pay for this content. How do I know you can do this? Here's exactly what you posted before me:
On February 17 2012 04:26 Excludos wrote:
You're ruining esports!
I kind of see why, but I think $20 is too much for most people for only 2 days of sc2. Especially for students, and we make up for a big cunch of the community. I will be attending a local barcraft thought, if its not filled up like last time. But last time the bar closed before the finals was even started, because its so late. So even that isn't really optimal. On top of that a ton of people don't have a local barcraft to go to, so the idea of "Don't want to pay? Just attent a local barcraft!" is not a solution.
Barcraft is super awesome. I went to one before and it was a blast. But if you have no problem going out to the bar, you can never go around talking about how you're too destitute to scrap up 20 bucks for a product. Instead, you should be admitting that you don't want to, that you don't feel it's worth it. But you can afford it. There's a difference. Make a proper argument.
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On February 17 2012 04:41 Mithriel wrote:
Maybe if i cancel my Gold MLG membership i can afford this one weekend tournament!!!
Not that the money is a problem, just am quite sad the only thing gold-members get (the ones who first said to MLG here's our money we believe in your product!!) is a lousy $5 discount.....
So out of principle I'll just watch Assembly.
I figure that a lot of the gold members got their gold pass after the Dallas and Columbus refunds where you could opt for cash back or buying a discounted gold pass(Dallas from terrible steams, Columbus from free streams for all). I paid $14.99 or something for my gold pass. Now I have to pay $15 for the first ppv event, which comes to the price of a gold pass today. I don't feel betrayed or cheated.
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Why are people even arguing about this. It doesn't matter for you personally if it is a good concept or not, they either make more money with this new approach or they don't. You don't have to pay the money, if not enough people pay it they won't do it again or MLG will go down as a whole, I think the MLG people are pretty smart and they know what they are doing.
I personally will not buy it, but thats mainly because it is a US event and I'm from Europe. I personally prefer the GSL above other tournaments anyway, also GSL has a much better price for what you get from my point of view.
edit:
What I love most about the thread are the inevitable guys in such a thread who just assume that everyone who doesn't buy the ticket doesn't buy it because he/she desperately needs the money to get drunk at the weekend.
Very mature argument, I bet that is going to convince a lot of people to buy it.
But I agree that 20$ is not a lot to pay for a hobby that is important for you, so the other side really shouldn't be pissed because there are streams that cost money. There is no law that video game streams have to be free or something.
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On February 17 2012 04:22 Deadeight wrote:
LOL
To buy MLG gold you have to go to a Toys "R" Us or a Gamestop. So you can't buy it online, and it's at like two shops you don't find in the UK really (and the ones that are here I bet don't stock it).
$30 is almost worth it to get the HQ etc etc.
I can only give MLG money if they let me.
@MLGSundance Wait, how do I buy Gold in the UK? No seriously, how? Toys and Gamestop dont have it.
Sundance DiGiovanni Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance
@AnagitTigana give me 12 hours. It will be back.
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Wow, no way I´m paying 20 dollars to watch a tournament at 3 AM.
Extremely dissapointed about this as I was really looking forward to this event. I hope most people don´t buy a pass so that they just scrap this idea.
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I will not pay for MLG till they get it sorted. So many stream crashes, bugs, poor quality and poor treatment of the players according to IdrA.
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On February 17 2012 04:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 04:32 Excludos wrote:On February 17 2012 04:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I like what Doa and Destiny and Rumcake said last night before the Axslav vs. Gretorp showmatch:
Do they have a right to charge us money for this event?
Absolutely. It's not like there isn't plenty of free MLG content out there. They're simply testing the waters with a pay-per-view concept. It's not like everyone is going to charge us money for viewing every event all of a sudden.
Do they have a right to charge $20, as opposed to a different amount of money?
Absolutely. Quite frankly, we're spoiled rotten by having nearly everything starcraft-related being free. 20 dollars is nothing. The whole "boo hoo I'm a poor college student" is nonsense. You probably tweet that from your iphone while buying a case of beer. If you really want to see it, you can shell out the few dollars. If you don't think it's worth 20 dollars, then don't buy the product and enjoy the other free content. But it's MLG's event, so they can name their price. They'll find out how big of an audience they end up getting, and adjust accordingly next time.
The problem is that MLG gold members probably assumed they would have free access to special events like these, simply by virtue of buying passes already. Discounts don't really cut it, and I pretty much agree with the slight betrayal that those people are feeling. But as far as everyone else goes... seriously, suck it up. Plenty of sports have some pay-per-view content. 99.99% of our stuff is absolutely free. Some of the whining about business is really exaggerated. Right. You see we are poor -because- we have an interest in computers. Do you really want me to go without a propper phone so I can watch starcraft 2 for a day? Sure I have a good computer, but that is my hobby. Without it, I wouldn't have this interest in sc2 to begin with. But alas. I'm sure you have all the right in the world to say how $20 is nothing in your fulltime job. edit: also. of course MLG can put the price they want. Who are we to stop them? If they want to charge 1000 bucks for an hour of watching. Go ahead. But they will lose some viewers in the process. We're trying to argue whats best for MLG, the community and esports in general here. Not what you personally can afford to pay. Except I'm also a poor college student (I don't have a full time job) and I can shell out 20 bucks if I need to. And so can you, considering you have no problem going out for dinner and drinks but don't want to pay for this content. How do I know you can do this? Here's exactly what you posted before me: Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 04:26 Excludos wrote:
You're ruining esports!
I kind of see why, but I think $20 is too much for most people for only 2 days of sc2. Especially for students, and we make up for a big cunch of the community. I will be attending a local barcraft thought, if its not filled up like last time. But last time the bar closed before the finals was even started, because its so late. So even that isn't really optimal. On top of that a ton of people don't have a local barcraft to go to, so the idea of "Don't want to pay? Just attent a local barcraft!" is not a solution. Barcraft is super awesome. I went to one before and it was a blast. But if you have no problem going out to the bar, you can never go around talking about how you're too destitute to scrap up 20 bucks for a product. Instead, you should be admitting that you don't want to, that you don't feel it's worth it. But you can afford it. There's a difference. Make a proper argument.
It would be worth it if I was a millionare. But since I'm a student, its not worth it. I CAN afford it no problem, but I have other things I want to spend my money on more. Unlike a millionaire, who really doesn't care about 20 bucks. In short: Students are less likely to pay for it. Gjeez. Didn't think you would pick so much on the spesific words used instead of the actual arguement, which still stands.
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So, are MLG passes useless now? Will every event in the future be based on the PPV model, or what?
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I cant stand watching sundance explaining thousand times "We fucked up.. we get it blabla. But now guess what. Take it blabla." makes me kind of angry. I care for the players I like and want to cheer for them not get a show with slasher or some konsol guy's salary. It is hard to believe that sundance really thinks he does not care seeing that the whole thing is gonna crash and burn. I ask what the top players like dongreague etc think if the know that like 10 k people watch if its supposed to be 10 times that big. I pay a yearly fee for GSL cause it is the "best esports show in the world" not because I want to support something that might not exist in the way some people are dreaming about. And I pay them because it is worth it to a certain degree - but paying for a show half the time see all this nice people from europe and america getting destroyed bye koreans - its not worth it. I really like MLG and the things they put foreward i WAS Goldmember for half a year. But "guess what" I dont pay 20 (!) Dollar for one freaking event. Its much to high of a price and i think they really lost eyecontact to what they can do in this point hopfully they crash and burn so heavy that they tune it down waaaaay more - I pay but not so much for a single event. Sad not to see if Nestea can make a comeback and get revenge tho...
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Did MLG send out the email to Gold Members yet? I seem to have missed it.
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On February 17 2012 04:36 Excludos wrote:
This does bring back the arguement about implementing TLTV though. If I could pay TL to run a stream with most of the esports/sc2 content on it (like a tv channel), I would pay for that. But $20 for a single 2 day tournament? Absolutely not.
This is what I said earlier in this thread aswell.
Esports needs a tv channel so the tournaments can join forces and the consumer has just 1 place to look and just 1 place to send his money.
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EPT
