Nobody Plays 1v1 Ladder Anymore? - Page 81
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Gtoad
United States90 Posts
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
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Enzymatic
Canada1301 Posts
Reasons I've stopped playing: - PvP (And mirror match-ups in general) - (literally makes me want to punch a hole in the wall when I see a toss opponent on the loading screen).. PvP has turned into rock-paper-scissors. It actually wasn't bad when it was a 4-gate fest and 1-base Collosus wars... At least that came down to skill/micro. Now its just "Oh you went robo? I auto-win with Phoenix opener"... "Oh you went Stargate? Auto-lose to 4-gate"... "Oh you went DT? Auto-lose to Robo opener"... "Oh you went Blink Observer? Auto-lose to Blink without robo"... "Oh you went 3-gate Blink? Auto-lose to DT"... And on and on. - Annoying/frustrating element of ladder. - Lets face it... Cheese runs rampant on ladder anything short of an upper GM level of play. There are always kids out there desperate to cheese for a promote. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread.. Once false-read, missed scout, and you can easily lose to a cheese build and its game over. When this happens it typically leaves one with a really sour taste in their mouth and frustrated. I personally get too annoyed when I ladder and lose to something dumb, and it really discouraged me from laddering. When playing a video game.. Nobody really wants to be left annoyed/pissed off after they're done playing. - Hitting Skill Ceiling for how much time I have to play - Making the leap from lower to mid masters to upper masters is a massive skill incline.. One of which I just didn't have the time to put into the game in order to make due to classes, work, gf, etc. Once I hit that point where I knew I couldn't reach any higher (I knew I wouldn't get high masters).. I gave it up for the most part.. There was no reason to keep playing to try and improve when the people I am playing against in top 8 have 8 more hours per day put into laddering/playing. That about sums it up for me. | ||
h1t-m3
Canada11 Posts
What I found for myself, I don't have enough patience and willingness to try get any higher in my ranking. I have work, a pretty busy schedule, so I may have time to play 1 or 2 games a day. The higher you get, more focused you have to be: multitasking, macro/micro. Yes it is fun in one way, but I just want to enjoy the game, don't want to try my balls off to win. I am not afraid to play, it's just not as much fun as it used to be anymore. | ||
ishyishy
United States826 Posts
- no player interaction: obvious right? It's 1v1. Ok, but that doesnt make this reason invalid; it isnt entertaining playing this game by yourself, and thats what 1v1 is. - clans/community: this is one of the worst communities ive ever seen in any game that I've played over the last 10 years. I tried to join these 'clans', but all of them were full of silly kids that just joke around in their chat channel or on skype the whole time and dont actually play. And there are the ones that have lower league players that refuse to play me because "i am in diamond or masters and they would have no chance at winning" ok so apparently, even when it isnt on ladder, all people care about is winning. Shitty. - On the surface, no sentimental value: Games like any mmorpg have a sort of automatic progessive nature to them; the more you play, the more you gain from it. To a lot of people, myself included, this game provides me with nothing of value to progress with. If I get 3 or 4 new peices of gear in WoW, my character IS going to be better overall in what ever I am doing in the game. Getting 100 ladder points doesnt do anything for me at all; I can still make mistakes, and I can still lose to things that I havent lost to in the past, and i can lose those points, whereas with an mmo I never actually lose the things I gain; I am not guaranteed to progress with anything when I play. Now I am not that big of an idiot to not understand that this is an RTS and they arent like mmorpg's, but again that does not invalidate this reason why people do not like playing this game. - Some people just get bored easily: Again, this goes along with the sentimental value aspect of other games that this game doesnt share. Again, in games like WoW, I can keep playing and there is always something to gain that I can 'itemize' (like gear for example, or levels, or XP that cant go down, etc). In this game, I can gain a higher rank and a new shiney little icon, but the very next day I can lose it. Have you ever reached a new height, then dropped down below where you were the previous day, and then said to yourself "god damnit now I have to win X amount of games to get back to where I was" ? This creates bordem. Games like (i hate to say it) LoL are like WoW in that there is always something to gain from playing, and nothing to lose. I can play, and no matter how many times I lose, I will always GAIN points I can use to buy another character. In Sc2, I cant buy anything with my rank points, and I can lose rank points. This drives people away, believe it or not. Some, if not all, of these things are probably not the games' fault. This isnt a bad game, I am not saying that at all. It's just a game that not everyone can get into because of it's nature. | ||
Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:38 ishyishy wrote: There is no point in playing 1v1 if you dont enjoy it, and a lot of people dont enjoy it. Most of the time, it is the nature of this game that is the reason. - no player interaction: obvious right? It's 1v1. Ok, but that doesnt make this reason invalid; it isnt entertaining playing this game by yourself, and thats what 1v1 is. - clans/community: this is one of the worst communities ive ever seen in any game that I've played over the last 10 years. I tried to join these 'clans', but all of them were full of silly kids that just joke around in their chat channel or on skype the whole time and dont actually play. And there are the ones that have lower league players that refuse to play me because "i am in diamond or masters and they would have no chance at winning" ok so apparently, even when it isnt on ladder, all people care about is winning. Shitty. - On the surface, no sentimental value: Games like any mmorpg have a sort of automatic progessive nature to them; the more you play, the more you gain from it. To a lot of people, myself included, this game provides me with nothing of value to progress with. If I get 3 or 4 new peices of gear in WoW, my character IS going to be better overall in what ever I am doing in the game. Getting 100 ladder points doesnt do anything for me at all; I can still make mistakes, and I can still lose to things that I havent lost to in the past, and i can lose those points, whereas with an mmo I never actually lose the things I gain; I am not guaranteed to progress with anything when I play. Now I am not that big of an idiot to not understand that this is an RTS and they arent like mmorpg's, but again that does not invalidate this reason why people do not like playing this game. - Some people just get bored easily: Again, this goes along with the sentimental value aspect of other games that this game doesnt share. Again, in games like WoW, I can keep playing and there is always something to gain that I can 'itemize' (like gear for example, or levels, or XP that cant go down, etc). In this game, I can gain a higher rank and a new shiney little icon, but the very next day I can lose it. Have you ever reached a new height, then dropped down below where you were the previous day, and then said to yourself "god damnit now I have to win X amount of games to get back to where I was" ? This creates bordem. Games like (i hate to say it) LoL are like WoW in that there is always something to gain from playing, and nothing to lose. I can play, and no matter how many times I lose, I will always GAIN points I can use to buy another character. In Sc2, I cant buy anything with my rank points, and I can lose rank points. This drives people away, believe it or not. Some, if not all, of these things are probably not the games' fault. This isnt a bad game, I am not saying that at all. It's just a game that not everyone can get into because of it's nature. I half agree. First, I think seeing your gameplay progress is *far* more satisfying than XP/item grinding. However, its much harder to do the former, and the latter is just a matter of investing more time. That said, I really do wish there were more badges/icons/whatever that you could get from playing ladder. Sure its just bragging rights, but it makes a difference. People will play harder when they think they can get that gold star from top 8, for example. I also wish those reqards were much more visible. Why not create the functionality to show off that stuff in the loading screen? P.S. I don't think its a bad thing if some of those rewards are effectively guaranteed by time spent laddering. | ||
ishyishy
United States826 Posts
I half agree. First, I think seeing your gameplay progress is *far* more satisfying than XP/item grinding. However, its much harder to do the former, and the latter is just a matter of investing more time. That said, I really do wish there were more badges/icons/whatever that you could get from playing ladder. Sure its just bragging rights, but it makes a difference. People will play harder when they think they can get that gold star from top 8, for example. I also wish those reqards were much more visible. Why not create the functionality to show off that stuff in the loading screen? I never really understood why those kinds of "rewards" that dont really actually do anything (achievements and the like) are saught after. I like getting rewards that I can actually use, and sc2 has none of that. Also, when I get a full new set of gear in WoW, my gameplay DOES progress, a great deal in fact, which is the point in getting the gear int he first place. Can I kill that boss or kill that other player when I have severely outdated gear? No. So I then have motivation to get new gear to defeat that player and/or boss. Yes it is an endless grind, but thats what an mmo is: an rpg that doesnt end, and when you dont enjoy it anymore you can always just quit or...make another character/class that you havent played before lol. | ||
Atoissen
Norway1737 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:19 Enzymatic wrote: Mid-Masters Protoss player here (well not anymore, but I sit at top 25 masters when I'm playing a lot). I used to ladder a lot but I have gotten to the point over the last few months where I only play my placement game and maybe a ladder game or two every week or so. Reasons I've stopped playing: - PvP (And mirror match-ups in general) - (literally makes me want to punch a hole in the wall when I see a toss opponent on the loading screen).. PvP has turned into rock-paper-scissors. It actually wasn't bad when it was a 4-gate fest and 1-base Collosus wars... At least that came down to skill/micro. Now its just "Oh you went robo? I auto-win with Phoenix opener"... "Oh you went Stargate? Auto-lose to 4-gate"... "Oh you went DT? Auto-lose to Robo opener"... "Oh you went Blink Observer? Auto-lose to Blink without robo"... "Oh you went 3-gate Blink? Auto-lose to DT"... And on and on. - Annoying/frustrating element of ladder. - Lets face it... Cheese runs rampant on ladder anything short of an upper GM level of play. There are always kids out there desperate to cheese for a promote. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread.. Once false-read, missed scout, and you can easily lose to a cheese build and its game over. When this happens it typically leaves one with a really sour taste in their mouth and frustrated. I personally get too annoyed when I ladder and lose to something dumb, and it really discouraged me from laddering. When playing a video game.. Nobody really wants to be left annoyed/pissed off after they're done playing. - Hitting Skill Ceiling for how much time I have to play - Making the leap from lower to mid masters to upper masters is a massive skill incline.. One of which I just didn't have the time to put into the game in order to make due to classes, work, gf, etc. Once I hit that point where I knew I couldn't reach any higher (I knew I wouldn't get high masters).. I gave it up for the most part.. There was no reason to keep playing to try and improve when the people I am playing against in top 8 have 8 more hours per day put into laddering/playing. That about sums it up for me. I really agree with the things your wrighting here. I am a casuall player, with 2 kids and a job I can squeeze in about 1-3 houres of SC2 pr day. With the stressfull nature of the ladder I often end up doing random team games or play costumes(Mono, Nexus etc.) And the few times I do end up pushing that dreaded "Find 1v1 game" button, I often meet cheese, or allinns or I have a build order loss... Its really boring! I will admit I do cheese myself, I hate PvP so much I only cannon rush here =/ So, my point is, its many reasons why the ladder is decreasing, its most likely a mix of everything: Interface, Ladder is stressfull, flaws in matchups, its easier for a silver/gold player to forget Robo and meet a cloaked banshee etc. | ||
okrane
France265 Posts
Reasons are the following: In my games: I played Zerg. Cheese As a zerg player all I faced was cheese. 9/10 games were cheese. I felt enraged when losing and I felt hate and disgust towards the enemy when defeating him. It was simply not fun and motivating to be on the receiving end for the first 10 minutes of the game and then be on equal footing with the oponent. I felt absolutely no need and no satisfaction to learn and get better at this game, because it just felt like a bad game. Zerg: the games were boring and the race was boring I was Zerg in Casual BW and it felt great. I had offensive power, I had defensive power, I could decide the game, in this game all I did was react. So I got bored quite quickly, I will not spend time playing somthing I am not enjoying. Too Stressful Forgetting an overlord loses you the game against that 4 gate? Been there done that... Competitive Side The Game felt Stale I stopped watching GSL and other tournaments because it felt like all games were the same. I hoped that in months zergs would find ways to be effective, but for months the games looked so similar to each other. Same shenanigans, same build-up, same stuff. One day I didn't feel the need or desire to log in to the GOM site. It just faded away. No Excitement Beautifuuuul Forcefieeeelds.... who are you kidding ?? They were beautiful maybe on the first GSL... after that it just got lame. Anyway, I havent posted on TL for like 6 months now and most probably will rarely be back... maybe for HotS just to check out the expansion and the new units / campaigns, but I am not optimistic about it. Peace! | ||
Creem
Sweden254 Posts
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Slago
Canada726 Posts
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phrenzy
United Kingdom478 Posts
Ranked 'Custom' Games Both players would have to be in the same league or close enough MMR. And to prevent the ladder becoming a wasteland you only have a number or 'custom' ranked games per week. Also you could award less points for these games as you are are taking that roullete element out of it, though some would argue how is it different for the pros in tournaments studying/practicisng with players in the past, only to meet up in an important game. This would help players practice but still have the 'play to win' element, as i have tried to practice by playing customs but notice players usually focus on macro and are less aggressive and definitely less all-in. (Which is nice, but its not the same experience on the ladder). Rage Also rage would have a different dynamic. Players would definitely rage less against players and the game if they know their opponant and are more likey to talk about the game afterwards. On the ladder i feel people rage because the ladder is pretty much as anonymous as it gets in SC2. Tournaments It would also be good to tie it into tournament systems so your tournament play will actually effect your rank on the ladder. I can see Blizzard implement a custom tournament system in the future but what an added bonus if it actually effected how high you got on the ladder. Hopefully none of what i said takes away the unique aspects of ladder, if anything it still keeps it on it's pedestal. Restrictions would have to be in place to prevent abuse but i think this is definitely the way to go. If not for the 'anxiety' issue at least for a more diverse play format. | ||
PopcornColonel
United States769 Posts
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:58 ishyishy wrote: I never really understood why those kinds of "rewards" that dont really actually do anything (achievements and the like) are saught after. I like getting rewards that I can actually use, and sc2 has none of that. Also, when I get a full new set of gear in WoW, my gameplay DOES progress, a great deal in fact, which is the point in getting the gear int he first place. Can I kill that boss or kill that other player when I have severely outdated gear? No. So I then have motivation to get new gear to defeat that player and/or boss. Yes it is an endless grind, but thats what an mmo is: an rpg that doesnt end, and when you dont enjoy it anymore you can always just quit or...make another character/class that you havent played before lol. Depends on the person, I guess. Some people like trophies and medals and those don't "do" anything. As for gear in wow, your character becomes more powerful, but how YOU play changes very little. If you're still bad, you're still pretty likely to wipe your raid. If you're bad at arena, better gear still isn't going to get you gladiator. And frankly, levels being equal, its pretty easy to kill a geared out PVE'er even in blues. I really do admit there's a difference, and I swear I'm not trying to bash WOW. MMOs provide a feeling of progression that's very safe and easy to experience. SC2 basically has leagues, division rank, and ladder points and that's it. SC2 can definitely do more in the area of "carrots" to get people to ladder. Its not a silver bullet, though, and there's a few other things I think blizz can do to encourage ladder participation and a strong community. | ||
Squalish
United States137 Posts
On a side note, with the amount of ladder players drastically dropping every season, ladder competition level is probably going down, not up. | ||
Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On April 19 2012 07:33 Squalish wrote: Long time top 10+ masters player here. quit last fall. I quit because the interface sucked in several ways, which was bad enough itself, but it also caused many friends to quit, which was a bigger factor. Staying on battle net was straight boring. Competing against euro/kr players while trying to hit gm was annoying. Team games aren't nearly as fun as they were in bw. Original battle.net kept me coming back and highly interested. Not buying hots until blizz gives more than the tip of the iceberg as far as capabilities for sc2 go. On a side note, with the amount of ladder players drastically dropping every season, ladder competition level is probably going down, not up. I guess it depends on your reference point. I have little doubt that season 1 & 2 players were far worse than season 5 and season 6. | ||
Squalish
United States137 Posts
On April 19 2012 03:12 Gtoad wrote: Answer is pretty obvious imo. Casuals are starting to leave and play the "new hot" games, and only those who actually enjoy Starcraft and rts in general still play and ladder competitively. Personally I had several friends who were into rts, myself included, who were more than casual being in master league and former bw/wc3 vets. Almost all have quit because it's pretty obvious sc2 is a shitty product comparatively. | ||
ishyishy
United States826 Posts
On April 19 2012 07:33 Smackzilla wrote: Depends on the person, I guess. Some people like trophies and medals and those don't "do" anything. As for gear in wow, your character becomes more powerful, but how YOU play changes very little. If you're still bad, you're still pretty likely to wipe your raid. If you're bad at arena, better gear still isn't going to get you gladiator. And frankly, levels being equal, its pretty easy to kill a geared out PVE'er even in blues. I really do admit there's a difference, and I swear I'm not trying to bash WOW. MMOs provide a feeling of progression that's very safe and easy to experience. SC2 basically has leagues, division rank, and ladder points and that's it. SC2 can definitely do more in the area of "carrots" to get people to ladder. Its not a silver bullet, though, and there's a few other things I think blizz can do to encourage ladder participation and a strong community. Ok, I understand what you are saying here (ive played wow since 2005), but it is incredibly rare to see someone in end game gear that sucks at the game. I've been in several 'top' guilds on the servers ive played on, and yes some of the people get carried, but there is never more than like 2 out of the 25 in the raid that are getting carried. And even then, they arent completely retarded, just a little retarded lol. I'd like to point out a very interesting word you used: "safe". In terms of what we are discussing here, what is safe about sc2? I cant think of anything, can you? I think the only safe thing about sc2 is that it's a blizzard game an it will never run out of money lol. | ||
sorrowptoss
Canada1431 Posts
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ishyishy
United States826 Posts
On April 19 2012 07:46 sorrowptoss wrote: "still play the game"+"ladder is too stressful". But I overcome the stress by 2-3 games. Speaking of community, TL is probably the cure to that! Well, it could be if every one of my threads didnt get closed by these ridiculous mods lol. | ||
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