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I just got bored with it and move on. Winning didn't feel all that great because most of the time my opponent royally fucked up or failed an all-in and I countered for the win. Losing doesn't scare me and if I lose a descent game I don't care but I play zerg and feel like all-ins are stupidly strong. I put up with it until one day 2-port banshee drove me over the edge and after losing to it 3 times in a row because my overlord barely missed the starports each time I was done. I have played 2 games this season - won one and lost the other and I think that is going to be it for me. Its a shame too, they finally fixed the map pool. In the end, I would rather just go play HoN/LoL/Minecraft and not be so frustrated.
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Thing is, sc2 is just dull. Every game is the same - same builds executed by the same tryhards such as ourselves trying to persuade someone - anyone - that what we do matters or that what we do is fun. Hell, even watching the casts/tournaments became boring. Hardly anyone I know is as excited about a day9 daily as they were a year ago, and only few of my friends actively spend weekends watching major tournaments when they happen.
Like someone above me said - boring, boring, boring.
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Well I started laddering casually again. At first I didn't play for a while because I was making a push for Master's before school started up and I'd just get rolled whenever I went back and played. It's not the best fix, but I threw a bunch of games (literally would just leave at the beginning) down to platinum over the weekend and the gaming has become much more relaxed.
Once you get rid of the ego and don't worry about what league you're in it's pretty fun. I actually think blizzard should consider creating a qualifiers at the beginning of the season for Master's and GM then throw everyone else into a mushpot. I think people would have a much more enjoyable experience and it'd avoid silly talk like, "I'm a high *insert precious metal*".
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I dont think its that the ladder is "stressful" its that it is unrewarding and not necessarily that fun. You feel BAD when you dont put out a good effort or things dont go your way. Theres nothing flashy outside a few static portraits for you to gain. People are looking for entertainment not necessarily a competition.
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I don't get why people think laddering is stressful... you always have a fair opponent who is close to your skill level. If you lose, you play people who are less skilled. So no matter what you will always have a fair chance to win. It's not like you have to worry about your win% falling to 20%, its always gonna be 40-60%
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1. People lose interest! It's going to happen but things like new seasons, features and expansions can help in bring them back for a period of time.
2. Lack of community. Blizzard might not be focusing enough on it but the community itself can take measures to improve this aspect. Things like Chanmans Pro Corner are really interesting and I enjoy watching and trying to participate. More things like that could only help imo.
3. Ladder fear. It exists and I'm not sure there is much that can be done without compromising the integrity of ladder.
EDIT: One small thing that might help a tad with ladder fear is to do like TF2 does with the little positive facts after you die - ie "That was your longest survival time as a Scout!" or "That was the most kills you've gotten as a Heavy!" It's silly but small things like that can make you feel like your improving even if you lost.
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I kept myself interested by learning another race. I know alot of TLers watch tons of SC2 and are quite up to date on the latest builds ect.
So in terms of game knowledge, learning another race was a breeze, and gives yourself a whole new perspective on what a race can an cannot due at any given momment. Or perhaps more importantly, what each race fears at each given time.
I first learned Zerg, got to a level I was comfortable with, and now I have learned Protoss and reached a similar skill level with both.
Gotta find ways to keep things interesting.
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There are five very easy things that blizzard can do to improve the retention rate of the players playing their game
1) Link to the streams of big tournaments when they are going on directly on Battle.net. Possibly even allow players to watch the twitch.tv stream in-game (HoN does this)
2) Add a mentoring functionality, so that friends can watch each other ladder without having to download Xsplit (which is much more memory-intensive than just running starcraft). When a player is being mentored, the person who is mentoring them sees an exact copy of their screen, where they are looking and what they are doing (including their mouse, which observer mode neglects).
3) Create real chat channels a la IRC. If 300 people want to join the channel "Team Liquid" or "Reddit" why shouldn't they be able to do so?
4) Create Clans (They had them in SC1, FFS) and create Clan chat.
5) Allow for the creation of user created tournaments (maybe daily blizzard-run tournaments as well?), where your opponent is selected for you, and you enter a match when a certain timer expires.
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I was high masters zerg at one point, now I just find the game not fun. The game isn't broken or anything (that much  ) but I just want to relax in my free time. Not have a brain hemorrhage when I fuck up and lose 4 games in a row 
I never really found the pro scene that interesting, but I'll still play team games for the social aspect on skype with some buddies.
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You need to win something for laddering, and the stupid portraits aint enough.
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Custom game menu/community is utter poopy. I can't count the hours/years I wasted playing 3v3 ZC, bunker wars, evolves, fastest map, etc. I played astronomical amounts of SC1 and never touched the ladder. I've played roughly 3500 ladder games of SC2 and it's become kinda stale. I've always wanted to play the 3v3 NR ZC noob fest in SC2 but no one plays TT.
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I'd also like to add that now that the novelty of SC2 is fadding away, and with it all of the initial awe of it's bling bling units and powers, one can we see how there's not much more than beauty behind them. For example, when SC2 came out, colossus looked like an awesome, cool unit. New people look at it and love it. After a year, they get bored of them. You can't see top players do things they didn't already do a year before, or amazing feats of skill, with it, because colossus can't do sh**t but basically a-move. So after a while it becomes boring. SC2 seems to be just fun while the awe of the units, the graphics and special effects last.
Sentries are a bit better on that regard, because forcefielding is a skill by itself, and we are seeing players forcefielding better and faster today, and sometimes it's really good to see.
What i'm trying to say is that we need less colossus like units (cool looking units, that entertain you for a while - while the awe lasts) and more skillfull units (that you find hard to master, and with which there are a lot of things you can do with them).
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On February 21 2012 12:47 Apolo wrote:
I'd also like to add that now that the novelty of SC2 is fadding away, and with it all of the initial awe of it's bling bling units and powers, can we see how there's not much more than beauty behind them. For example, when SC2 came out, colossus looked like an awesome, cool unit. New people look at it and love it. After a year, they get bored of them. You can't see top players see things they didn't already do a year before, or amazing feats of skill, with it, because colossus can't do sh**t but basically a-move. So after a while it becomes boring. SC2 seems to be just fun while the awe of the units, the graphics and special effects last.
Sentries are a bit better on that regard, because forcefielding is a skill by itself, and we are seeing players forcefielding better and faster today, and sometimes it's really good to see.
What i'm trying to say is that we need less colossus like units (cool looking units, that entertain you for a while - while the awe lasts) and more skillfull units (that you find hard to master, and with which there are a lot of things you can do with them).
There might not be much "innovation" with the collosus but other styles have emerged that are more entertaining such as the gateway centric style with chargelot archon, double forge or even 2base templar.
On February 21 2012 08:19 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:12 Zeroxk wrote:On February 21 2012 07:39 Shiladie wrote:On February 21 2012 07:23 Zeroxk wrote:On February 21 2012 04:18 KULA_u wrote:On February 20 2012 18:02 TheRealFluid wrote:On February 20 2012 17:54 KULA_u wrote:On February 20 2012 01:32 HuKPOWA wrote:On February 19 2012 18:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On February 19 2012 17:51 ZiegFeld wrote:
I don't get why you people stop playing below top Masters level though. Cheeses are equivalent to free wins, which allows you to play better players that don't cheese.
Unless your skill level doesn't permit you to block cheeses, in which case you would probably lose every single game against skilled macro players. There are lots of builds that take close to 0 skill to execute but will give you free wins vs a lot of normal openings. It's stupid. Protoss allins are the worst (literally does not take any skill what so ever to execute mass gateway builds, just warpin and force field the bunkers and wait for terran to die/win depending on what build the terran picked), but terran and zerg allins aren't exactly brimming with skill requirement either. lol bias much? pretty sure six pooling with all ur drones is much easier...no...it is easier... Just b/c u dont know how to hold off protoss cheese doesn't mean you have to say it takes 0 skill :\ sad to see a pro player making such a dumb statement not really, to executing a good 6pool is not really that easy, because making simple mistakes/a simple wall will instantly cost you the game. protoss X-gate all-ins on the other hand don't really require too much micro. (relatively to each other of course) also it really doesn't matter wheter bad player's should advance. the problem is that bad people never get to play normal games because holing off cheese is pretty hard for low level players. and that's really a problem of game design. You are aware that cheese existed in Starcraft Brood War and even Watcraft 3 to a large extent. I cannot tell you how many times I've been cannon and tower rushed. in BW, 1. there weren't even remotely that many cheese options. 2. cheesing usually meant autoloss if countered. in SC2, a lot of cheese like bunkerrushing is pretty save. 3. things like void rays (no zerg T1 anti air beside queens), baneling (bust), warp in (i.e. turbo reinforcements without the risk of proxy gates) or op-rines/salvagable bunkers just didn't exist. BW had some cheese but it was far away from the cheesefest of SC2. How many cheeses can you name that are both "safe" and not an all-in? (very important to distinguish between cheese and all-in) Calling sc2 a cheesefest? Really? Remember proxy rax from BOTH players in a proleague game last week or so? Or Flash's knack for bunker rushing/proxy rax? On February 21 2012 07:22 Disastorm wrote:On February 21 2012 04:18 KULA_u wrote:On February 20 2012 18:02 TheRealFluid wrote:On February 20 2012 17:54 KULA_u wrote:On February 20 2012 01:32 HuKPOWA wrote:On February 19 2012 18:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
[quote]
There are lots of builds that take close to 0 skill to execute but will give you free wins vs a lot of normal openings. It's stupid.
Protoss allins are the worst (literally does not take any skill what so ever to execute mass gateway builds, just warpin and force field the bunkers and wait for terran to die/win depending on what build the terran picked), but terran and zerg allins aren't exactly brimming with skill requirement either. lol bias much? pretty sure six pooling with all ur drones is much easier...no...it is easier... Just b/c u dont know how to hold off protoss cheese doesn't mean you have to say it takes 0 skill :\ sad to see a pro player making such a dumb statement not really, to executing a good 6pool is not really that easy, because making simple mistakes/a simple wall will instantly cost you the game. protoss X-gate all-ins on the other hand don't really require too much micro. (relatively to each other of course) also it really doesn't matter wheter bad player's should advance. the problem is that bad people never get to play normal games because holing off cheese is pretty hard for low level players. and that's really a problem of game design. You are aware that cheese existed in Starcraft Brood War and even Watcraft 3 to a large extent. I cannot tell you how many times I've been cannon and tower rushed. in BW, 1. there weren't even remotely that many cheese options. 2. cheesing usually meant autoloss if countered. in SC2, a lot of cheese like bunkerrushing is pretty save. 3. things like void rays (no zerg T1 anti air beside queens), baneling (bust), warp in (i.e. turbo reinforcements without the risk of proxy gates) or op-rines/salvagable bunkers just didn't exist. BW had some cheese but it was far away from the cheesefest of SC2. I have to agree with this guy, I know people that quit SC2 for the above reasons. Sure there was cheese in BW but theres no way you can even argue that it can compare with the insane cheese amount in sc2 (and the insane cheese strength in sc2). You too, how many games can you give me that someone lost to cheese in the gsl in the past weeks? Remember I'm talking about cheese according to the liquipedia definition http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Cheese and NOT all-ins The main differences between BW cheese and SC2 cheese, In BW: Less skill discrepancy between executing the cheese and defending from it. The higher the skill discrepancy of the cheese, the easier it is to scout it. And the main one, Cheese will lose to standard play erring on the safe sde. I can't emphasize this enough. If a player plays entirely standard and scouts correctly, they'll win vs any cheese in BW hands down. Cheese is used to punish players who go for the cut corners and going super econ heavy. If you want proof of this, try getting to B+ on iccup by ONLY doing cheese builds like 6-pool, something people have demonstrated as not only possibly, but EASY to do in SC2 (see GM by 6-pooling thread) It's the same in SC2, safe standard play wins against cheese. You're not saying that the reactor hellion double CC vs a roach bling bust is considered safe are you? Or any FE build vs proxy is safe? Since it's so easy to get GM only by 6-pooling, why isn't for example KR GM ladder filled with 6poolers? The SC2 ladder has not matured, 2%(!) of the ladder population is in masters which is where most people consider you to be good. Actually Masters is more like 6% now.
Eh the season barely started, you can't pull any conclusions until it ends. Jumping from 2.8% in S4 to 5.7% is a very big jump
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well the ladder for me has started to be fun the last season. I totaly got rid of anxiety an now i love to play ladder 
my record last season was below 50% but i just don't care anymore about wins. when i loose i try to analyse why i lost and be better next time. It's fun now
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Because all anybody ever does is all in or cheese in almost every single game. They just do a build, and if I make even one minor mistake I auto lose. It's not even like they out control or out macro me. It's literally if I don't scout something at X time and make X units within a 10 second window I lose.
You can't play standard on the ladder and expect to win. The only people who have any interest in getting into macro games are Protoss, after they have cannon rushes and then double star-gated me. Then they make Colossi and kill my maxed army twice over despite being behind in upgrades.
SC2 is just a bad, bad, flawed game. WAY too much about Build Order wins, all ins and lucky scouting. Not so much about strategy, position, control and macro.
It's fun too watch, miserable to play. I literally never have fun. The only enjoyment is the 10-15 seconds of "**** yeah" I feel after I crush some stupid all in.
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Moved on to other games (D3). However I have started lagging really bad in D3 so I might come back to SC2 until I get a better graphics card.
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2.get something from playing ladder games (such as getting points to purchase items like in LoL) - encourages casual players to give laddering a try
No, this is just dumb. That will ruin the balance, wont it? One of starcafts trademarks? That must be the dumbest idea i've ever heard.
Please refrain from ever posting again <3
User was warned for this post
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On February 21 2012 07:22 Disastorm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 04:18 KULA_u wrote:On February 20 2012 18:02 TheRealFluid wrote:On February 20 2012 17:54 KULA_u wrote:On February 20 2012 01:32 HuKPOWA wrote:On February 19 2012 18:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On February 19 2012 17:51 ZiegFeld wrote:
I don't get why you people stop playing below top Masters level though. Cheeses are equivalent to free wins, which allows you to play better players that don't cheese.
Unless your skill level doesn't permit you to block cheeses, in which case you would probably lose every single game against skilled macro players. There are lots of builds that take close to 0 skill to execute but will give you free wins vs a lot of normal openings. It's stupid. Protoss allins are the worst (literally does not take any skill what so ever to execute mass gateway builds, just warpin and force field the bunkers and wait for terran to die/win depending on what build the terran picked), but terran and zerg allins aren't exactly brimming with skill requirement either. lol bias much? pretty sure six pooling with all ur drones is much easier...no...it is easier... Just b/c u dont know how to hold off protoss cheese doesn't mean you have to say it takes 0 skill :\ sad to see a pro player making such a dumb statement not really, to executing a good 6pool is not really that easy, because making simple mistakes/a simple wall will instantly cost you the game. protoss X-gate all-ins on the other hand don't really require too much micro. (relatively to each other of course) also it really doesn't matter wheter bad player's should advance. the problem is that bad people never get to play normal games because holing off cheese is pretty hard for low level players. and that's really a problem of game design. You are aware that cheese existed in Starcraft Brood War and even Watcraft 3 to a large extent. I cannot tell you how many times I've been cannon and tower rushed. in BW, 1. there weren't even remotely that many cheese options. 2. cheesing usually meant autoloss if countered. in SC2, a lot of cheese like bunkerrushing is pretty save. 3. things like void rays (no zerg T1 anti air beside queens), baneling (bust), warp in (i.e. turbo reinforcements without the risk of proxy gates) or op-rines/salvagable bunkers just didn't exist. BW had some cheese but it was far away from the cheesefest of SC2. I have to agree with this guy, I know people that quit SC2 for the above reasons. Sure there was cheese in BW but theres no way you can even argue that it can compare with the insane cheese amount in sc2 (and the insane cheese strength in sc2).
You too, how many games can you give me that someone lost to cheese in the gsl in the past weeks? Remember I'm talking about cheese according to the liquipedia definition http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Cheese and NOT all-ins[/QUOTE]
semantics much?
also: "The usage of the term "cheese" has expanded to include most "all-in" strategies which involve a great sacrifice of economy, though some StarCraft communities use the term even more loosely to include mid-game strategies."
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On February 21 2012 18:03 Khaine wrote:Show nested quote +2.get something from playing ladder games (such as getting points to purchase items like in LoL) - encourages casual players to give laddering a try No, this is just dumb. That will ruin the balance, wont it? One of starcafts trademarks? That must be the dumbest idea i've ever heard. Please refrain from ever posting again <3
He obviously mean't skin-like items, something that wouldn't affect the game balance. To be honest it's not a bad idea, if you'd have a mmo-like model for SC2 more people would play it.
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Apparently the crying zaelot faction reported me and therefore I was warned, so no more comments about match-ups but oh my god I have so much to tell about laddering. Today alone I always was super friendly and pinky-pie-happy but those nasty little Zergs always flaming at me because I play Terran. I don't even need to do anything, I just get flamed when I say "hf" and all-ined shortly after. It is sooooooooooooo funnney because everyone here is super happy and friendly and all is good and well but apparently nobody from the community plays SC2 because all SC2 players I encountered so far are god damn faggots.
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EPT
