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On February 13 2012 23:18 Telcontar wrote:
I'm hardly laddering anymore because I just don't find the game that fun to play (or even watch). Not sure if I'm going to buy any of the expansions at this point.
pretty much this. i still ladder every so often, but i've switched to random just to infuse a bit more interest in the game as a last ditch effort.
my problems have always been:
-it's difficult to express yourself through the game. day9 said it once, and it clicked as something that was bothering me about sc2
-match-ups feel pretty similar game to game. especially zvx
-metagame evolution has felt pretty stagnant (maybe hots can fix)
-none of my friends play
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On February 13 2012 23:08 chestnutcc wrote:
Ladder phobia should be a documented phenomenon. Living it right now TT
PS: Yeah, people who imagine themselves to be the greatest macro players if only they could get past the cheese and all ins irritate the hell out of me. Its ladder phobia disguised as strategic xenophobia.
yeah.. no
i get tired of getting 1 based all inned and /or getting massive amounts of ZvZ sooo i get tired of doing only those and dont bother laddering? its not that i am the greatest macro player or insert random bullshit that you think as some phobia its called boredom not xenophobia..
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Netherlands45349 Posts
As stupid as it may sound, the inability to Match myself against opponents of my choice(and by this I mean race) is one of the reasons I quitplaying, when I do Matchmaking and I want to play P or T or Z I can't choose, I have to find people in channels(with its horrible system)
On ICCup(BW) I could just host the game, if its Z or P and I want to play against T I could just kick him(or if he is too low/high rated for me), or name my game 1v1 D+ T come please.
Instead I was Z, and I had to play an insurmountable amount of ZvZs, that was annoying so I tried custom games, however the people there are of a variety of skill levels, often worse or better and it takes ages.
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On February 14 2012 06:52 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 23:08 chestnutcc wrote:
Ladder phobia should be a documented phenomenon. Living it right now TT
PS: Yeah, people who imagine themselves to be the greatest macro players if only they could get past the cheese and all ins irritate the hell out of me. Its ladder phobia disguised as strategic xenophobia. yeah.. no i get tired of getting 1 based all inned and /or getting massive amounts of ZvZ sooo i get tired of doing only those and dont bother laddering? its not that i am the greatest macro player or insert random bullshit that you think as some phobia its called boredom not xenophobia..
It's because some people would really like to train or play a certain type of game but it's out of our control and we get frustrated. I have come from work many times eager to play some challenging 1v1s only to get rushed/all inned. And I have no pleasure in holding the rush either. I feel it's a waste of time.
I don't blame the players for all inning so much, but the game. I
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On February 14 2012 06:46 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 06:43 elKaDor wrote:
from my 10years of bw playing i know around 8(?) people out of lets say 100 that still plays sc2.
and out of those 8 i think its around 2 or 3 who actually enjoys the game, the other just hang around plays some custom with eachother cuz of old times.
I quit the game 5 months ago, and i played maybe 500 games since release and my perspective is mostly the UI that destroys the game.
In BW i could sit for hours in chatchannels or watch replays with friends, blizzard completely ruined that for SC2, and i know WC3 also had very good UI but didnt really play it so i have no experience of it.
I really hate the gamelobbys in sc2, feels like crap, also i think the game is too hard to read, warpgates/reactors/larvainject makes it to hard to really read the opponent, like (aight i saw 2 stalkers, np) but then he had 6 wg which i didnt see and a hidden pylon) kind of thing.
Nah i didnt enjoy SC2 at all, the reason i played those games was because i really really really wanted to enjoy SC2, but 5 months ago i just gave up on the game, no way i could enjoy it This post speaks so much truth. The thing is Bnet 2.0 is not engaging you at all. You really have to want to play, you are not dragged in at all. That is really bad for the game. I now play only 2v2 with a team friend. I watch a LOT of sc2 though. Just don't play that much cause it's a lot more fun to follow Esports. But this, is sad.
I'm with you so much. I love playing with a friend, and we do have fun doing 2v2's hovering in gold. But I feel like you need to know people who enjoy playing the game for the game's sake. The entire social environment in game is absolutely terrible. I've been playing so much more DotA 2 lately for the simple fact that you interact with people more by default, and that is 10 times more engaging.
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Community is terrible, so hard to make friends and just have fun with them.
I'm going back to playing Heaven's Final Hour on iccup. Best UMS ever. Great, small community too.
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I'm seriously trying to force myself to play SC2 more frequently again, and I'll have to say I agree with most of the UI/lack of community posts here, and in the UI thread.
I played WC3:RoC and FT religiously from release up until maybe 1/2 a year before SC2s release. If I wasn't in the mood for laddering I could chill in chat channels, with decent/good players, observe custom games, chat, etc. With BNet 2.0 that's totally lacking. I don't feel like playing, I have no reason to launch it, I'll watch a stream instead if anything.
I haven't entirely given up on it, and it has nothing to do with my skill level or lader phobia, but outside of laddering, BNet 2.0 feels so....empty?? Not sure, but I miss the way WC3's implementation functioned from statistics, matchingmaking, chat channels..basically everything. BNet 2.0 is a HUGE step back, not forward, and generally an increase in major version is supposed to bring new fewatures, not be a downgrade from the previous.
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On February 13 2012 23:05 Silentenigma wrote:
Because it is not fun to play against abusers BM ers alliners.
Last time I played 99 percent of my games were 1 or 2 base allins(was mid masters).It is almost impossible to play a standard game...I would much rather to play custom games against similar skilled people.
this
I don't care about ranking, and i'm not afraid to lose,
but all-ins and cheeses just completely destroy any fun i could have.
so instead, i do practice games with equal or higher skilled people.
this way i get better, have amazing games, and a discussion about the last game played.
whenever i go for a ladder game, it's honestly cheese/1base all-in.
every single time. there is nothing to gain for me.
you might say, well practice to hold those off, and in high-masters or GM you won't get all-in'ed so frequently anymore.
well, maybe true, but nothing stops me from just getting in touch with high masters/ GM players and play practice games with them. this way, i actually don't have to grind my way up through unenjoyable games.
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Most people just can't handle the competitive nature of the game. People want to win all the time, but really winning all the time can be just as boring as losing all the time. Like when I lose to someone I just want to keep playing them over and over again Untill I can find a way to win, but eventually they get tired of rofl stomping me and don't want to keep playing against me. Also its very hard for new people to the game to find friends to play with. I find laddering to be so much funner when I'm in vent with my friends who are also laddering, rather then just sitting there lonesome playing game after game. Sc2 can be a very lonely game.
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On February 14 2012 06:46 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 06:43 elKaDor wrote:
from my 10years of bw playing i know around 8(?) people out of lets say 100 that still plays sc2.
and out of those 8 i think its around 2 or 3 who actually enjoys the game, the other just hang around plays some custom with eachother cuz of old times.
I quit the game 5 months ago, and i played maybe 500 games since release and my perspective is mostly the UI that destroys the game.
In BW i could sit for hours in chatchannels or watch replays with friends, blizzard completely ruined that for SC2, and i know WC3 also had very good UI but didnt really play it so i have no experience of it.
I really hate the gamelobbys in sc2, feels like crap, also i think the game is too hard to read, warpgates/reactors/larvainject makes it to hard to really read the opponent, like (aight i saw 2 stalkers, np) but then he had 6 wg which i didnt see and a hidden pylon) kind of thing.
Nah i didnt enjoy SC2 at all, the reason i played those games was because i really really really wanted to enjoy SC2, but 5 months ago i just gave up on the game, no way i could enjoy it This post speaks so much truth. The thing is Bnet 2.0 is not engaging you at all. You really have to want to play, you are not dragged in at all. That is really bad for the game. I now play only 2v2 with a team friend. I watch a LOT of sc2 though. Just don't play that much cause it's a lot more fun to follow Esports. But this, is sad.
Yeah, i have tons of friends who loved WC3 and we played custom games for years. Then SC2 came out and everyone was excited, now I'm the only one who still plays SC2... They prefer WC3 over SC2, which is kinda fail.
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A reason why I play less of the game is because it's very empty at battle.net, sure I got friendlist and all that shit but..it's just not the same as a huge window as old Brood War chat or IRC where u can see all the people online at the right and start chatting in the main.
Another thing I think is quite boring that made me personally play less is that the game is designed in a way to splash an enemy to death..Literally. The splash damage from all terran Mech, and the FF's from protoss with Immortals, the banelings from Zerg...it's just not cool seeing a huge battle or early push ending up in instant loss or win..it's in fact very sad.
I play random master eu but when I play as Zerg I get most frustrated cuz ur basically helpless in alot of situations where you actually lose. Thats a huge problem imo, that feeling.
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I haven't played for quite some time, but I watch quite a lot still.
I think for me the biggest thing is that I like to watch actions unfold, but to play above any low level league you have to move the camera away from actions quite often to do more actions all the while spamming other actions. The style of higher level play doesn't appeal to me as a player, but watching the higher level play unfold appeals to me as a spectator.
For the same reason I rarely watch first person streams. Sure they're good teaching tools, but I don't find them half as exciting as commentated observed games.
Will still buy expansion for single player + probably a season or two of reinvigorated 1v1's followed by a season or two of team and custom games before returning to spectator only again.
EDIT: OH! And I totally agree with all the battle.net complaints. It feels worthless to idle in SC2 to chat or any of that social aspect. I'm still amazed how the makers of a socially driven game such as WoW can fail to translate any social aspects into SC2.
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All of this could be solved with an unranked ladder, which on everything is hidden, it has an mmr but you know nothing.
Here you could also pick which race you want to face.
SO PLAYERS WHO WANT TO GET GOOD CAN ACTUALLY PRACTICE FOR A TOURNAMENT AND CASUAL PLAYERS CAN JUST PLAY FUN.
Blizzard is squandering money.
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On February 13 2012 23:14 Joseph123 wrote:
1. Perhaps add maps that are worth playing, how am i supposed to ladder a lot when there are 7 maps from which I've banned 3, so I'm playing the same maps over and over again and I don't even like them
Solution: add more maps + more bans.
2. Battle.net is a lonely boring place, all you can do is click find match button and that's all I do. If you want to get involved, you can do that, but that requires a lot of time and effort outside the game to find the people to do so.
Solution: Fix battle.net
3. There are no statistics about your games, just some boring match history that requires so much time to open anyway
Solution: Add more features to 1v1 statistics, I can't think of all of them, but statistics about every maps, every bo, every race, etc.. No, I don't want to use Sc2gears for that.
4. How am i supposed to keep on playing when i get 10 pvp's in a row? I don't care that "this is your luck" or something, I don't have all the time in the world to click the find match button, so if I play 10 games, I want them to be against all races.........................................?
Solution: Fix that.
5. The division system is completely retarded, there isn't a real way to compare yourself to your opponent and to all the people.... Just no comment, you are top1 master in one division, but in other you're like top25. Seriously? What is the point in that? The whole statistics are meaningless, you don't get any information about your skill improvement.
6. Things that compare you to other players such as apm are completely ruined by absolutely no reason, good job Blizzard -1 thing that can compare you to other people.
I can continue, but there is no point, they have shown no intention in making battle.net a place that you can do anything else other than pressing "Find match" and then using 3rd party programs for statistics. So people like me who wanna play maybe 20 games a day are gonna play a lot less, because there is nothing to keep us continuing to play after a long series of pvp's or just nothing happening, just staying at one place, no way to guess after this 20 games, did I improve or not? Did my MMR jump high or not? Of course I'm not able to understand that, because of bonus pool. Well done.
If you want to veto every map that Protoss typically veto then of course you're going to have more PvPs than other matchups. I fail to see how that isn't expected. They're adding in new maps this coming season that ARE tournament style maps and removing two of the worst as result. They also mentioned that they will be focusing more on these maps in the future. If you want statistics then use sc2gears regardless of whether you want to or not, why does it matter if it's in game or another program. Unless you want the stats to be there just for other people to see how good or bad you are then a small piece of software to give you all the info you could ever want is simple to download and use. Oh by the way, they're also throwing old APM back into the game so people who need to know how fast their fingers can spam buttons can now see that again. As for the social aspect, there are plenty of practice group channels with lots of people in them who are more than willing to play games with you and socialize. Having to make any attempt to do anything for yourself is bad? I wouldn't mind those features all in game but it certainly doesn't make or break it. The game is an RTS not a social media site.
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700,000 is not "nobody." It's probably more active players than all other RTS games combined and one of the most among non-MMO/MOBA/F2P games out there. That being said the drop from season 4 to season 5 is pretty steep. Since this thread has already reached 25 pages I'm sure the laundry list of grievances has already been states multiple times and doesn't need repeating. Once HotS is released it should go back up to 1-1.5 million users. Whether it has any staying power after that depends on the quality of Blizzard's product. I hope they're paying attention.
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On February 14 2012 06:48 RogerChillingworth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 23:18 Telcontar wrote:
I'm hardly laddering anymore because I just don't find the game that fun to play (or even watch). Not sure if I'm going to buy any of the expansions at this point. pretty much this. i still ladder every so often, but i've switched to random just to infuse a bit more interest in the game as a last ditch effort. my problems have always been: -it's difficult to express yourself through the game. day9 said it once, and it clicked as something that was bothering me about sc2 -match-ups feel pretty similar game to game. especially zvx -metagame evolution has felt pretty stagnant (maybe hots can fix) -none of my friends play
Yeah agree with you man, hope it gets better in HOTS!
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Blizzard has no incentive to retain players. They got their $60 when we bought the game and there isnt any ingame items for people to purchase like LoL or WoW (subscription model). Therefore they're not going to fix it.
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On February 14 2012 04:52 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 04:49 Chytilova wrote:
Most people seem to be missing the obvious here. I have seen 2 or 3 people mention it. Skyrim and other games (though mainly Skyrim) caused many people to stop playing SC2. Every single one of my friends stopped playing around 2 or 3 months ago because of Skyrim. They are really just waiting for the expansion now. Skyrim stopped me playing SC2 for 5 days, then I had done everything interesting there was to do in the game. I don't see how a single single-player game would stop your average SC2 ladder-er from stopping for several months. Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 04:50 Fleshcut wrote:
Last season I was high diamond/ low masters level and then I went back home to my parents for x-mas vacation. Two weeks later, I came back to my beloved PC and wanted to play so badly and lost 8 times in a row. Haven't played since then because I'm still frustrated and I fear to drop out of diamond. Nobody gives a shit about your ladder ranking. Just play to for fun and to improve, your ladder rank means nothing.
so many people say "just play, your rank means nothing" whenever someone has a form of ladder anxiety but wat else is there to go off of? i, and i would think most people when thinking completely rationally, know that ladder rank means nothing but theres not much else to look at as measure of how much your improving or how good u might be.
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I dont know if this is why the masses arn't playing it as much.. but I hit a wall with one matchup... and kind of don't want to put in a ton of time learning how to play it when HOTS is coming out soon...
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On February 14 2012 07:17 kill619 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 04:52 ZAiNs wrote:On February 14 2012 04:49 Chytilova wrote:
Most people seem to be missing the obvious here. I have seen 2 or 3 people mention it. Skyrim and other games (though mainly Skyrim) caused many people to stop playing SC2. Every single one of my friends stopped playing around 2 or 3 months ago because of Skyrim. They are really just waiting for the expansion now. Skyrim stopped me playing SC2 for 5 days, then I had done everything interesting there was to do in the game. I don't see how a single single-player game would stop your average SC2 ladder-er from stopping for several months. On February 14 2012 04:50 Fleshcut wrote:
Last season I was high diamond/ low masters level and then I went back home to my parents for x-mas vacation. Two weeks later, I came back to my beloved PC and wanted to play so badly and lost 8 times in a row. Haven't played since then because I'm still frustrated and I fear to drop out of diamond. Nobody gives a shit about your ladder ranking. Just play to for fun and to improve, your ladder rank means nothing. so many people say "just play, your rank means nothing" whenever someone has a form of ladder anxiety but wat else is there to go off of? i, and i would think most people when thinking completely rationally, know that ladder rank means nothing but theres not much else to look at as measure of how much your improving or how good u might be.
Yeah your ladder ranking is the only measure of progress in the game and losing = they punish you by taking away points. Not fun to casuals.
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EPT
