EPTPatch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 87
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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay. Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. | ||
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Nabes
Canada1800 Posts
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architecture
United States643 Posts
On February 11 2012 07:38 jgelling wrote: People do, but it's also true Blizz subsequently reduced ghost cost by 50 gas and nerfed infestors since then. Now they're buffing snipe vs infestors, but making it relatively weak against brood lord/ultras. Blizz's reasoning is obvious: BL/infestor or ultra/infestor may have been crazy strong, but if infestors are well-countered ultras or broods by themselves are weak, and the same unit shouldn't counter BOTH BLs/ultras and infestors. They want the ghost to be primarily anti-caster, not anti-all tier 3 plus anti-caster plus DT-like ninja. Blizzard's reasoning isn't grounded in reality. 1. 150->100 gas reduction is NERF not a buff. T can't spend his gas late game. 2. Both from an army AND production standpoint, T responses to Hive units are wildly inefficient. Marauders and vikings are practically shit, and far less efficient than ghosts. That's why Ghosts, in the current game, are necessary. You NEED a unit that can wildcard against both, because there is no other option. 3. Ghosts have significant vulnerabilities, including their high cost, high time to produce, weakness to tier 1. Z T3 > T T1+2 > Z T1+2 > Ghosts > Z T3 | ||
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riff
United States113 Posts
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OwNaGeForce
12 Posts
I'm even more confused with this because I thought the game was fairly balanced atm. Code S is what, 4 toss, 3 ter, and 1 zerg? Not exactly the old gomtvt we used to know. I'm confused =((( master terran | ||
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alepoff
140 Posts
On February 11 2012 07:38 jgelling wrote: People do, but it's also true Blizz subsequently reduced ghost cost by 50 gas it's funny how this is considered a buff by non-T players, whereas in the very lategame, when you need those ghosts, you actually have plenty of gas and want more minerals. edit: talking about tvz here, cos in tvp it does help if you get earlier ghosts | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
Seems to solve all our problems. There are no other biological massive units in the game anyway. EDIT: didn't read thread, already pointed out. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3487 Posts
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
you still had to micro a ton to use ghosts properly vs zerg and they are very expensive. its not like every terran rushes for ghosts in tvz and maxes out on them because you can kill every z unit. ghosts are just a late game investment and not right on your techpath as infestors are. i dont understand the drama about the snipe: does it look to easy when broodlords die in seconds? did you ever saw marines and marauders die in seconds to storms or colossi? nobody is changing them because T SOLVED IT WITH MICRO. i feel like every problem t has, has to be solved with micro. dont want to die to banelings? split marines. dont want to die to storms? dodge. dont want to die to zealots? kite them all day long. in my opinion, it is just the wrong way of approaching the problem. i hope somebody criticizes my post! | ||
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Surili
United Kingdom1141 Posts
On February 11 2012 07:40 HunterK wrote: Snipe damage penalty vs massive woujld been much better IMO. Most interesting comment i have read in this thread so far. Otherwise though, i like the patch notes ^^ | ||
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Tulkas25
Greece292 Posts
On February 11 2012 07:37 Vague wrote: The three terran players left in diamond league are switching to zerg today. This is a sad day. Believe me its a struggle around here..AT least i don't get much tvts anymore  | ||
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Torra
Norway469 Posts
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
On February 11 2012 07:40 HunterK wrote: Snipe damage penalty vs massive woujld been much better IMO. Agreed, I don't think snipe has much purpose at all anymore vs zerg. As someone else said, u can't even kill a zergling with it, so why even snipe at all? What "role" does the ghost serve now in tvz besides emping infestors? Who the hell would take the time and effort to use 19 snipes to kill a single ultralisk? I think this was a case of Blizzard listening a bit TOO MUCH to the community... way over-nerfed. Sighs. | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
On February 11 2012 07:43 alepoff wrote: it's funny how this is considered a buff by non-T players, whereas in the very lategame, when you need those ghosts, you actually have plenty of gas and want more minerals. you have mules lol.. | ||
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TheNessman
United States4158 Posts
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On February 11 2012 07:37 Vague wrote: The three terran players left in diamond league are switching to zerg today. This is a sad day. Not me. <3 Though, if this change goes through, I see a lot of 2-raxing in the near future for me.......... EDIT: On February 11 2012 07:44 graNite wrote: Thors do nothing against corrupters, because they are armored. Vikings are the counter to corrupters, but terran cant switch tech like zerg can, thats why terran needed the ghosts to have an allrounder. Of course you can snipe everything, but all the players who say that forget that a marine can attack everything, too.... you still had to micro a ton to use ghosts properly vs zerg and they are very expensive. its not like every terran rushes for ghosts in tvz and maxes out on them because you can kill every z unit. ghosts are just a late game investment and not right on your techpath as infestors are. i dont understand the drama about the snipe: does it look to easy when broodlords die in seconds? did you ever saw marines and marauders die in seconds to storms or colossi? nobody is changing them because T SOLVED IT WITH MICRO. i feel like every problem t has, has to be solved with micro. dont want to die to banelings? split marines. dont want to die to storms? dodge. dont want to die to zealots? kite them all day long. in my opinion, it is just the wrong way of approaching the problem. i hope somebody criticizes my post! +1. Terran is the race based more on mechanics (Read: Micro and Macro) while the other races are more reliant on strategies. So, Terran needs a all-rounder composition that can actually defeat things like broodlord infestor> ultra bling tech switches. So far, that's been Ghost/Tank/Medivac w/ some marines and marauders as minerals are available. But with this new nerf to Snipe, we can't do that. We have to attempt to beat those tech switches using primarily Vikings and Marauders. TvZ late-game is already hard to win as Terran, according to the stats, why nerf the late-game so we can barely compete in that area? I'm not trying to whine, but like I said, lots of TvZ all-in's will be in the near future if this goes through. Minus five or ten would be fine, with +10 or +15 vs psionic would work so we can still two-shot those infestors. | ||
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GhostFall
United States830 Posts
It achieves the exact same purpose as what they're trying to do, but it doesnt affect all the other snipe interactions. | ||
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stablol
United States82 Posts
On February 11 2012 07:04 Rye. wrote: As in micro mechanics. I cant stand how a-movey broods and ultras are. Same for a lot of other units. Stutter step may be "easy" but can you do it whilst macroing? Vikings are king of the skies, but only if micro is applied. Can u macro at the same time. Banshees, bad when stood still, thats why they get micro'd emp's and snipes from ghost require accuracy and apm. Tanks need sieging and unsieging and decent positioning. now, can u do all the above at the same time whilst macroing? What do Protoss and Zerg get???? a-move. Zerglings, collosus, zealots, archons, broodlords, ultras, hydras, roaches, banelings, corruptors, immortals, dark templars. Non of those require much micro, maybe a baneling split or something, but thats about it. Infestors. great, high templar. great. pheonixes and mutas. great. but thats about the limit. i have no problem with these. wat. if your units are the best they should be the hardest to use | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On February 11 2012 07:46 rhs408 wrote: Agreed, I don't think snipe has much purpose at all anymore vs zerg. As someone else said, u can't even kill a zergling with it, so why even snipe at all? What "role" does the ghost serve now in tvz besides emping infestors? Who the hell would take the time and effort to use 19 snipes to kill a single ultralisk? I think this was a case of Blizzard listening a bit TOO MUCH to the community... way over-nerfed. Sighs. snipe is better to use vs infestors than EMP (unless they have like 10 of them bunched) snipe is wasted on ultra vs an ultra/infestor army. Snipe is good......just.......what the fuck are you supposed to do vs infestor BL now? Vikings just eat supply and arent even good in headon engagements anyway. | ||
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