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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay. Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. | ||
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
I think the phoenix range buff, going to be interesting to see when toss incorporate the fleet beacon into their play. The ghost nerf is acceptable and I'm glad that you'll always 2 shot infestors now, though I don't really get the MULE change, it'd be easier just to eliminate gold's from the maps. Would really have liked to see a change in PvT but phoenix buff should make for some cool mid game comps | ||
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HallBregg
134 Posts
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Gary Oak
Canada2381 Posts
What's left? Are Terrans supposed to get 3-4 Tech Lab Starports and crank Ravens in hopes that HSM will do the trick? It's the only thing I can think of due to the Ghost nerf and the fact that any non-mech Terran composition either simply takes less than all of their gas lategame or has a few thousand spare gas in the bank. The only problem with this tactic is the Ravens are more or less flying paperweights when Zerg refills his supply on Ultralisks. If only BCs were useful. Yamato deals with Broods quite nicely, but the build time and the energy ramp up required not to mention the mineral investment is just too much. While I agree that Ghosts are too much of a "catch-all" crutch against Zerg Hive units, I'm just not sure what Terran is supposed to do with them being far less effective when Zerg throws an Infestor/Broodlord army at you and then remaxes on Ultra Ling. [Edit] To discuss the other balance changes, I absolutely love them. Mutalisks are just insane against Protoss, and the TLPD winrate charts helps reflect that statement. Since Archon Toilet is becoming more and more standard for PvZ, I think the Phoenix upgrade will get used a lot since we're seeing Fleet Bacons quite a bit lategame. I also applaud the MULE change. Terran shouldn't have ever had such a huge advantage on gold patches from the get go. I'm wondering if we'll see gold minerals come back on certain maps in high class tournaments such as GSL in the wake of such a change. | ||
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Amlitzer
United States471 Posts
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NoobCrunch
79 Posts
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Kruxt
United States113 Posts
On February 11 2012 05:48 devPLEASE wrote: I think the ghost snipe thing is pretty okay. I mean it'll take less to kill high templars and investors since it does 50 damage to them but it also isn't an auto kill Zerg unit like it once was. Might be still though we will see once it comes out. For now, TGIF It still takes 2 snipes to kill a caster | ||
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dde
Canada796 Posts
On February 11 2012 06:57 HallBregg wrote: What bother me the most is how blizzard keeps forcing players to play the game the way they think it has to be played, and if someone uses a unit in a different way to what they intended they nerf the hell out of it so its no longer possible. Balance is secundary to their vision of the game :\ good points | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
On February 11 2012 06:38 roymarthyup wrote: i think MVP could have held in that situation in the new patch if he goes for some ravens instead of ghosts. actually snipe is now so bad in terns of damage that terrans should only get 2-3 ghosts for EMP and +bonus damage to light, and ravens should be the new damage spellcaster now the new buffed HSM is so fricken overpowered and it will take a while for terrans to realize it. . just wait until terran turn that floating 1000gas lategame into 5 HSM's . it obliterates a 200food army and now HSM flys faster than every unit other than hellions and speedlings theres a reason super lategame stalemate mass battlecruiser/viking TvT always devolves into a bunch of HSM's per side and whoever HSM's better wins the same concept terran says against fungal about how its impossible to not let clumps of vikings get fungalled because zerg waits until vikings engage before they come in with infestors and fungal them, thats the same tactic terran can use with HSM against clumped broodlords same concept applies to HSM. terran may say they cannot use HSM because the ravens will just get chain fungalled before they can deploy it, however thats not true because whats stopping infestors from getting EMP'ed before they get off their fungals against vikings? its the same logic. one side is terrans saying you cannot use emp to stop the infestors from getting off their chain fungals on the vikings, but on the other hand terrans are saying zerg CAN stop ravens from getting off their HSM's? why can the zerg stop it, but the terran cant? the truth is terrans saying that just havnt tried HSM and truly abused it. its just as powerful or even more powerful than fungal now that the missiles fly about as fast as mutalisks everything terran complains about in fungals, they will realize once they start adding in 10 ravens to their army they actually have had a more powerful version of fungal all along (actually, not all along, just since the massive buff to HSM) the only thing HSM doesnt obliterate is ultra-ling, however planetaries and marauders/hellions/medivacs deal with that nicely once terran realize the power of HSM they will start having higher winrates. HSM is pretty ridiculous right now but its needed to counter how stupid powerful fungal is. fungal in its current state will always hit bunched up vikings that are trying to counter broodlords, and 1 fungal on some vikings ends up doing 300+damage for 75energy id say the new lategame army against zerg will be a frontline of marauder/hellion to deal with ultra ling, and then 2 tanks and 3medivacs with some marines behind that, and its very important to use the marauder/hellion to defend the tank/marine/medivac from fungals since marines are important anti air but die quick to fungals next the rest of terrans food is in raven / viking and its important to magic box them. terran keeps his tanks unsieged until he is 100% sure broodlords are gone. when the zerg comes in with broodlords you use HSM + vikings to try to kill all the broodlords. once the broodlords are dead, then you can siege up your 2 tanks which help immensely against the ultralisks with the marines and marauder/hellion support however, i should also point out even though i think the snipe change is bad i guess in the scheme of things it makes sense because ghosts have an autoattack while infestors do not. but 25 damage for 25 energy seems insane. micro'ing that is almost not even worth it Ghosts use EMP on casters, not snipe so i think snipe should probably be renamed to explosive sniper round 125 energy for 150 damage and allow it to hit mechanical units, limiting ghosts to 1snipe, but its easier to use a ton of snipes, and now snipe will 1shot zealots which lategame is a big deal because 1ghost is 2food, 1zealot is 2food, and if 1ghost can just instantly obliterate 2food it seems worth it. snipe would also deal 150 damage to a stalker which leaves the stalker with 10hp remaining. snipe would also 2shot voidrays or 3shot collossi also, it would kind of balance in TvP slightly maybe because now templars just oblierate a bunch of marines with a single storm. if ghosts could 1shot zealots with snipe and 1shot stalkers with snipe it would be pretty cool to see | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
Mind = blown The MULE change is overdue, won't make a difference for GSL because they got rid of gold expansions due to this issue, but will be a welcome change for ladder. The Ghost change is favorable to Zerg in lategame TvZ, which is alright IMO because Ghosts were, in fact, countering Brood Lords too well*. *due to the Brood Lord's super slow movement, it's immensely powerful in combat (just like how mutas are super mobile but weak in combat). It should therefore be pretty hard to counter- and Ghosts were countering them a bit too well, considering the above. | ||
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SoulSever
Canada779 Posts
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Greenei
Germany1754 Posts
On February 11 2012 06:55 ThatGuy89 wrote: im sorry are you calling snipe a 'good mechanic'? im not sure if troll or just stupid.... of corse it is oO especially if you have to split, stim focusfire stutterstep and do millions of other things to hold your own against p or z. | ||
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Raambo11
United States828 Posts
On February 11 2012 06:50 ToInfinity wrote: 3/8 of the quarter finalist play terran seems fine? its not 6/8 like normal but 3 seems pretty reasonable All this pointing at GSL and saying Terran's are fine is really starting to frustrate me. 3/8 of the top 8 being Terran looks alot different when you consider Code S is what, 66%+ Terran? And this snipe nerf is utterly rediculous. I can see it right now, the whole Blizzard team watching the Blizzcon finals and going SNIPE SO OP, or watching WCG and drawing ridiculous conclusions. It is impossible to realize how difficult and massivly expensive it is, not to mention how long you need to wait to get 20 ghosts with maxed energy to completely nullify a mass blord/ultra army. Meanwhile you can easily get a moved by a maxed crackling/bling army. If hes teching up to mass ghosts and just turtling, you can nydus his main snipe his production, send a few blings and bust one of his expos, drop your whole army somewhere etc etc. TBH i doubt snipe would have gotten nerfed if MVP didn't use ghosts so heavily, in games he could have won without ghosts. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15398 Posts
On February 11 2012 06:57 HallBregg wrote: What bother me the most is how blizzard keeps forcing players to play the game the way they think it has to be played, and if someone uses a unit in a different way to what they intended they nerf the hell out of it so its no longer possible. Balance is secundary to their vision of the game :\ If you're referring to the Ghost, I think its still a fair change. TvZ progressed as the game went on to getting as many ghosts as you can, then sniping. To me, this just looks silly and really takes away from the game. Instead of it being like "Making Zerg units? Go for Ghosts." It becomes "Making ultras? Marine marauder. Making Air? Vikings. Making infestors? Ghosts." I play Protoss and even I thought it looked dumb. | ||
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Xivsa
United States1009 Posts
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jgelling
55 Posts
On February 11 2012 06:53 Sackings wrote: its time for the price of the fleet beacon to be lowered to something reasonable... 300/200 really? what is the justification for it being the most expensive building in the game? Seems like another one of those examples where they just kept the price the same as it was in BW, yet in Sc2 its usefulness is nowhere near what it was in BW.... I tend to agree. When carriers were kings of the air, the fleet beacon cost made sense. When they removed flux vanes, they (strangely) never lowered the cost, and making air tech cost more than the other two, more powerful, tech options is really just a strange holdover from BW. It doesn't look like the tier 3 air situation will be improved in HoTS, so it is strange Protoss tier 3 air is so expensive for what it delivers, especially if the Mothership is removed. | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
On February 11 2012 06:43 moregamethanSEGA wrote: @roymarthyup - you are talkin craziness bro. straight craziness. your 'raven revolution' is a sweet dream, but just that, a dream. mutas, stalkers, and stim bio can also outrun seekers. the AOE for the missle is also terrbile. you be lucky to hit 5 maruaders even if they are balled up... and btw if takes 2 HSM to kill 1 maurder LOL i was talking about TvZ, where only speedlings and mutas can outrun HSM TvT super lategame stalemate mass battlecruiser/viking already deteriorates into HSM wars. so i was right there too in TvP, i dont expect ravens to be good anytime soon due to feedback | ||
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
On February 11 2012 06:55 Vehemus wrote: It seems fine, but they started with 15 Terrans in Code S and 3 are left. They started with 8 Protoss in Code S and 4 are left. And maybe all of those terrans shouldn't have been there in the first place? Plus mirror matchups knocking each other out. | ||
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
On February 11 2012 06:57 HallBregg wrote: What bother me the most is how blizzard keeps forcing players to play the game the way they think it has to be played, and if someone uses a unit in a different way to what they intended they nerf the hell out of it so its no longer possible. Balance is secundary to their vision of the game :\ I think when a unit is used to KILL ALL THE THINGS! then it does go against Blizzard's vision and should be changed explicitly for balance. They made the game. Their vision. | ||
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nvrs
Greece481 Posts
On February 11 2012 06:57 HallBregg wrote: What bother me the most is how blizzard keeps forcing players to play the game the way they think it has to be played, and if someone uses a unit in a different way to what they intended they nerf the hell out of it so its no longer possible. Balance is secundary to their vision of the game :\ Damn right, i am sick of this approach. As someone else said, well since we can't make the other races more interesting/versatile lets dumb down the one that is. Whatever, i get my popcorn and watch this patch blow on Blizs face. | ||
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