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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 05:39 FinestHour wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:37 Zarahtra wrote:On February 11 2012 05:35 KawaiiRice wrote:On February 11 2012 05:31 FinestHour wrote:On February 11 2012 05:25 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 11 2012 05:22 Gimix wrote:On February 11 2012 05:20 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 11 2012 05:11 zhurai wrote:On February 11 2012 05:08 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On February 11 2012 05:01 mTwTT1 wrote:
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raven + seeker missible is pretty good vs bl's as far as ive seen, just because u never play a certain style that doesnt mean u dont have any viable options available Not sure if trolling or not, you need 2 upgrades and wait 1min and about 2000 gas for 7-8 ravens with HSM that dont even kill broodlord. the damage of the seeker missile is "pretty good" if they don't bunch up their units.... but then again... the range of seeker missile is very very very bad range is irrelevant vs bl's cus they cant run away, ive seen korean t's integrate ravens w/ ss while going mech and bio, i think the problem is just that koreans are ahead in the metagame atm obviously ghosts wont work as well vs bl's in the lategame anymore and if foreign t's cant adapt themselves to new styles then glhf going mass marines vs bl's You're really knowledgable on Terran lategame for someone who plays toss  i dl reps(less of this ofc, i only dl reps of famous players) and watch vods of every mu : D Provide a link of so called famous players using ravens nowadays. only morrow uses them right now. Kas used it on his stream the other day, but it seemed to be against an inferior player which he won in the midgame. TT1 specifically said he has personally seen korean terrans using them. I just want at least one replay so I can at least get an idea of what they do and their mindset. Still waiting.
that was a general statement aimed at what gimix said, theorycrafting viable ways of dealing with certain units doesnt require u to play the race, figuring out viable ways of reaching a certain tech is what i cant comment on because i dont have enought knowledge to do so
most of the games that ive seen them in were practice games and as far as i saw they were very effective, morrow vs leenock was the most recent vod that i saw some1 use ravens + gsm
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Now I can't go corrupters to counter phoenix harass. This is going to force me to micro infestors and be a better player TT I don't get the point of snipe doing bonus damage to psionic units. Wouldn't ghosts rather use their energy for emp when countering psionic units?
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where will be end of seson 5 guys?)
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On February 11 2012 05:45 Bobgrimly wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:36 Everlong wrote:On February 11 2012 05:34 Bobgrimly wrote:On February 11 2012 05:28 Everlong wrote:On February 11 2012 05:24 Bobgrimly wrote:
I really don't get all the terrans in this thread... Wah snipe is nerfed I can't play against zerg because my vikings will be fungaled..... That is singularly the most retarded statement EVER. Snipe is still as it was against infestors. (IT STILL DOES 45 DAMAGE TO INFESTORS)
Now though instead of sniping the broodlords and auto winning you just switch target to the infestors guarding them and SNIPE THE INFESTOR. Now the broodlords have no protection and one viking can beat 50 broodlords (just might take a while)
Seriously anyone qqing about this change is just upset that they can't mass one unit to win. Oh no. Scanning is so hard. You will be eaten alive, because you don't know what you are talking about and you write like you ate all wisdom there is in sc2.. Cloak ghost... run towards SLOWLY moving broodlords. If you can't see infestors scan... you can now see burrowed and a lot more... find infestors.... queue up snipes... goodbye infestors. They can't fungal ghosts when they get sniped. A zerg would have to see you coming and have taken plenty of steps to prevent that. At the same time vikings can be pot shotting the broodlords and forcing infestors to come to the front. This forces the infestors forward and makes them easy targets for cloaked ghosts. There is nothing wrong with this scenario. I have seen it happen in many tvz games just with usually ghosts sniping EVERYTHING. Now they can snipe infestors then burn energy to lower broodlord hp if they want. But not quite so stupidly op as it was. Being able to queue up snipe on a unit means the zerg has no time to react. The broodlords just evaporate. At least now you run some risk as a terran from broodlords. By plenty of steps to prevent cloaked ghosts you mean like morph single overseer? By morph single overseer I take it you failed to notice GHOSTS CAN SNIPE OVERSEERS AND VIKINGS HAVE STUPID RANGE. You make it sound like zerg has it easy. You obviously have never watched or played in high level games. Overseers do not live long when ghosts are around... or worse... ghosts and vikings. Zerg usually has to morph like 5 if the terran is doing his job just to prevent autoloss. The point is yes the zerg can do some things to win... but the terran also has plenty of tools to use and now just has to rely on something other than MASS SNIPE LULZ. This is called balance. When you can't win with just one unit and the enemy has to use multiple units to counter your counters and vice versa. And if you talk about approaching broodlords then you have never approached a tank line knowing you will lose half your forces just getting to it... before you can do damage. (that is hyperbole but I figured that was how you structure your arguments)
Hi I played both races
Both races are hard
End of story. stop complaining about "oh Z is easier than T" or "oh T is easier than Z"
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sounds like a really good patch for me
alot thinking involved
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If you watch oGsForGG vs Leenock on DayBreak from this season's GSL, you can see that Ghosts are not an auto-win unit vs zerg. There is a considerable amount of control required from players.
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/vod/66755
If you take IMMvp vs XiGua WCG Finals on Metalipolis, you can tell that MVP was simply outplaying him all game and was able to mass ghosts as a result of that. XiGua's brood/cooruptor/infestor/ultra control is nowhere near Leenocks.
Ghost snipe nerf was completely uncalled for, can someone seriously look at the winrates of TvZ late-game and say "oh look terran has ghosts, that's why they win all the time, let's fix that"
And to everyone saying "LOL terran makes 1 unit that counters everything", well if it was a combination of other units that solved the problem, I would gladly make that, but it just happens that adding as many ghosts as you can to your late-game TvZ army is the correct response for zerg tier 3. You assume that making just 1 unit is inherently less difficult that making different mixes of units. It's not any less difficult.
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On February 11 2012 05:40 xrapture wrote:
So Terran is getting nerfed and Protoss is getting buffed??????????????! I am truly baffled. Doesn't every Terran pro complain about TvP? werent PvT winrates in Janurary the highest they've ever been, even favored in Korea?
Yep they were the highest they've ever been... About 51 percent or something. And that was a fluke as seen by the next month where Terran went back up AFTER the emp nerf
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I love how people also don't remember the fact that these changes aren't final. They'll look into the feedback and see how they test out and then change them if the game isn't broken
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I love that they give explanations of the logic behind the patch changes.
I like that the Phoenix upgrade is on the Fleet Beacon. There was so little there before, and making Fleet Beacon more worthwhile means slight carrier buff 
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The phoenix upgrade is just stupid and Naniwa is right on that - noone will get it for 300+XXX/200+XXX. The idea itself is very good though (if the range upgrade also affects lifting up), gives protoss nice harassing tool. Just move the upgrade to cyber core and make it 200/200..
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I like what they're trying to do but I feel they really went the wrong way about it.
How are you supposed to kill brood lords now? Get an absolutely perfect viking split so you don't lose everything to fungal? Maybe a Terran could clarify, I don't know the matchup very well. Ghosts aren't really viable TvZ unless you have an investor problem it seems.
The range upgrade being at fleet beacon...I really don't see what the harm would be in making it 7 by default. The scary part of muta play is that if you're on 2 base when mutas are out you're doomed to stay on 2 base forever. Teching that hard just to be slightly better off against mutas seems almost all-in.
APM change is long overdue.
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I think some terrans who say that zerg can easily tech switch don't realize that in order to be able to do that the zerg has to stock up on several K worth of minerals and gas, which means that the zerg was far ahead already and should win a large amount of the time.
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LOL I called the ghost change back when there was the MVP vs July in GSL Semifinal (I think). I think this will make terrans play a little more creatively late game.
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Extra range on Phoenixes will bring the ball back to toss, instead of hitting psi storms on mutas itll be hitting fungals on phoenixes. Strange.
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On February 11 2012 05:54 Berailfor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:40 xrapture wrote:
So Terran is getting nerfed and Protoss is getting buffed??????????????! I am truly baffled. Doesn't every Terran pro complain about TvP? werent PvT winrates in Janurary the highest they've ever been, even favored in Korea? Yep they were the highest they've ever been... About 51 percent or something. And that was a fluke as seen by the next month where Terran went back up AFTER the emp nerf
I don't know it, but TvP winrate below GM must be dramaticly low atm.
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On February 11 2012 05:52 roymarthyup wrote:
the pheonix change is NOT to help against early game mutas
the pheonix change is for lategame when the zerg has 50 mutas and the toss tries to move out to kill the zergs main but 50 mutas come in and obliterate his base then run way before the toss can engage them. slowly the toss base gets whithered away and is forced into a baserace
but now a 200food army no longer needs to baserace against a lategame muta zerg
with the pheonix change toss can attack the zergs main and leave 7 phoenix behind to deal with the mutas. when the 50 mutas come the protoss slowly a-moves his main army to destroy the zergs main and expansions while micro'ing the 7 pheonix. with 6range, 7pheonix 2shot mutas and within a 80 seconds or so 7 pheonix can kill all the mutas before the mutas kill much of the tosses main, while the zerg loses 4 bases to the protoss main army and the zerg is finished at that point
You have it backwards. It is not the 200food army that has to baserace against lategame muta zerg, it's the late game muta zerg that has to baserace against a 200food protoss army.
Which has now gotten a lot more difficult.
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On February 11 2012 05:54 McKTenor13 wrote:
I love how people also don't remember the fact that these changes aren't final. They'll look into the feedback and see how they test out and then change them if the game isn't broken
gonna be really hard to optimally test the ghost change unless you get pro players on the PTR...
which as they have SAID, that they generally don't do?
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On February 11 2012 05:52 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:51 Noocta wrote:On February 11 2012 05:47 ScareCrow` wrote:On February 11 2012 05:41 DocM wrote:
Now that we can snipe overseer's easier, Bisu build anyone? Overseers are not psionic. rofl ? They have spell,they should be. They need to fix that. Psionic is a unit type like Light or Armoured. If every unit with spells/energy were Psionic we'd have Psionic type Thors and Phoenix.
I'd be ok with overseer becoming psionic TBH, now that there's something that it matters for.
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EPT
