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Patch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 70

Forum Index > SC2 General
4449 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 68 69 70 71 72 223 Next
Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.

Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions.
merz
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Sweden2760 Posts
February 10 2012 20:56 GMT
#1381
Despite being upset with the ghost nerf I'm still satisfied with the merz buff.
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
Craminit
Profile Joined June 2011
United States58 Posts
February 10 2012 20:56 GMT
#1382
i wonder if they will eventually faze out high yield bases all together from the ladder pool
jgelling
Profile Joined February 2011
55 Posts
February 10 2012 20:56 GMT
#1383
Does anyone have a cost for the phoenix upgrade? While the appeal of +2 range seems big on paper,, I'm still skeptical of reactive phoenix investment overall - if I wasn't going phoenix initially I can't see a super tier 3 investment in what I still see as a fundamentally mid-game unit. The phoenix just doesn't fit well in late game unit compositions.

I guess the theory is you can now build say, a half dozen +2 range phoenix and use them to babysit your base while you move out for the final showdown. But if it's a base race situation (which it probably would be vs mass muta), a handful of phoenix won't make a difference to the ultimate outcome, compared to say, a similar investment in blink stalkers.

I've just never been a fan of the unit - it's always been lackluster compared to the corsair. But if the upgrade is reasonable for cost/time, maybe it has late-mid game appeal after holding off the initial mutas. If Phoenix were better vs broods or corruptors and weren't slaughtered by infestors or had splash, I'd be more excited. I'm still confused what in the world Protoss air will look like if they really remove the carrier and Mothership in HoTS and still plan on bringing in the Tempest to counter mutas.
oxxo
Profile Joined February 2010
988 Posts
February 10 2012 20:56 GMT
#1384
On February 11 2012 05:55 AnYvia wrote:
LOL I called the ghost change back when there was the MVP vs July in GSL Semifinal (I think). I think this will make terrans play a little more creatively late game.


You shouldn't have. Mvp was already ahead and July completely throw away his ultras. He sent them against CCs and let them all be sniped. He could have just killed every ghost right there. That's a horrible game to use as an example of 'overpowered snipe'. It's like a terran sending 20 tanks unsieged into a horde of zerglings and then complaining that zerglings are overpowered.
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-10 20:57:57
February 10 2012 20:56 GMT
#1385
On February 11 2012 05:55 Shiladie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 05:52 SeaSwift wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:51 Noocta wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:47 ScareCrow` wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:41 DocM wrote:
Now that we can snipe overseer's easier, Bisu build anyone?


Overseers are not psionic.


rofl ?
They have spell,they should be.
They need to fix that.


Psionic is a unit type like Light or Armoured.

If every unit with spells/energy were Psionic we'd have Psionic type Thors and Phoenix.

I'd be ok with overseer becoming psionic TBH, now that there's something that it matters for.

honestly it'll make sense
I mean... LOOK AT THE EYES OF THE OVERSEER D:

XD

>>

references about all psionic:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Psionic

EDIT: though ofc, snipe only affects bio, so you'll have to look at bio+psionic.
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
Bobgrimly
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand250 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-10 20:58:47
February 10 2012 20:57 GMT
#1386
On February 11 2012 05:50 Everlong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 05:45 Bobgrimly wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:36 Everlong wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:34 Bobgrimly wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:28 Everlong wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:24 Bobgrimly wrote:
I really don't get all the terrans in this thread... Wah snipe is nerfed I can't play against zerg because my vikings will be fungaled..... That is singularly the most retarded statement EVER. Snipe is still as it was against infestors. (IT STILL DOES 45 DAMAGE TO INFESTORS)
Now though instead of sniping the broodlords and auto winning you just switch target to the infestors guarding them and SNIPE THE INFESTOR. Now the broodlords have no protection and one viking can beat 50 broodlords (just might take a while)

Seriously anyone qqing about this change is just upset that they can't mass one unit to win. Oh no. Scanning is so hard.


You will be eaten alive, because you don't know what you are talking about and you write like you ate all wisdom there is in sc2..


Cloak ghost... run towards SLOWLY moving broodlords. If you can't see infestors scan... you can now see burrowed and a lot more... find infestors.... queue up snipes... goodbye infestors. They can't fungal ghosts when they get sniped. A zerg would have to see you coming and have taken plenty of steps to prevent that. At the same time vikings can be pot shotting the broodlords and forcing infestors to come to the front. This forces the infestors forward and makes them easy targets for cloaked ghosts.

There is nothing wrong with this scenario. I have seen it happen in many tvz games just with usually ghosts sniping EVERYTHING. Now they can snipe infestors then burn energy to lower broodlord hp if they want. But not quite so stupidly op as it was. Being able to queue up snipe on a unit means the zerg has no time to react. The broodlords just evaporate. At least now you run some risk as a terran from broodlords.


By plenty of steps to prevent cloaked ghosts you mean like morph single overseer?


By morph single overseer I take it you failed to notice GHOSTS CAN SNIPE OVERSEERS AND VIKINGS HAVE STUPID RANGE.

You make it sound like zerg has it easy. You obviously have never watched or played in high level games. Overseers do not live long when ghosts are around... or worse... ghosts and vikings. Zerg usually has to morph like 5 if the terran is doing his job just to prevent autoloss.

The point is yes the zerg can do some things to win... but the terran also has plenty of tools to use and now just has to rely on something other than MASS SNIPE LULZ.

This is called balance. When you can't win with just one unit and the enemy has to use multiple units to counter your counters and vice versa.

And if you talk about approaching broodlords then you have never approached a tank line knowing you will lose half your forces just getting to it... before you can do damage. (that is hyperbole but I figured that was how you structure your arguments)


lol, so you snipe overseers and than stare at infestors with no energy.. :D Man, seriously, put your shit together and stop writing essays lacking any sign of logic. You telling me to go in with Vikings/Ghosts to snipe 2-3 overseers? This is your adivce? Just answer yes/no so I know our conversation isn't waste of time..


If you aren't blind.... use vikings on overseers which have to be at the front to SEE GHOSTS. They don't have scan range on their view....

Then if they pull their overseer back your vikings start sniping broodlords. If he brings forward infestors and an overseer (fungal DOESN'T ONE SHOT VIKINGS) you focus the overseer with your vikings while still sniping the infestors. Once detection is gone you go back to shooting broodlords like fish in a barrel knowing if he dares bring forward infestors you can snipe them with impunity.

I don't even play terran but I know that is SOOOO frustrating for a zerg. Unless you are silly enough to group your vikings and ghosts in one group on top of each other fungal is really not that great. And you can even marine split your vikings... guess what... one fungal per viking IS NOT COST EFFECTIVE.

Just because you expect to A move does not mean you should be able to. Use some micro instead of spamming snipe and you might just demolish zerg. Seriously so many terrans complaining about fungal... how do they beat fungal and banelings? Spread or don't engage from a grouped up position. Not always going to happen but you are not always going to win.

Also zerg has to do a lot of army control so don't complain about having to micro manage a battle please. That would be face palm worthy.
For the swarm
gakkgakk
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Norway902 Posts
February 10 2012 20:57 GMT
#1387
On February 11 2012 05:51 Bobgrimly wrote:
If you don't know how to beat ultras... let me show you a video.



Skip to ten minutes. If you can't figure out how to beat ultras.

And thats on open ground... if its a choke... LOL. Just a few marines stop the ultra (3 hits from an ultra to kill one..... ) while tanks and marauders smash them.

Hey cool. Make a video of you killing a ling ultra infestor army by making them chase a few marines while your tanks and mauraders smash them!
A timing is a build done by a player you like. An allin is a build done by one you dont. -sOda~
ondik
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Czech Republic2908 Posts
February 10 2012 20:58 GMT
#1388
On February 11 2012 05:56 dignitas.merz wrote:
Despite being upset with the ghost nerf I'm still satisfied with the merz buff.

lol
Bisu. The one and only. // Save the cheerreaver, save the world (of SC2)
bootyclapthunder
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States82 Posts
February 10 2012 20:58 GMT
#1389
I used to SNIPE banelings with Ghosts to protect my heavy marine composition, this is going to completely alter play for me.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
February 10 2012 20:58 GMT
#1390
On February 11 2012 05:54 Berailfor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 05:40 xrapture wrote:
So Terran is getting nerfed and Protoss is getting buffed??????????????! I am truly baffled. Doesn't every Terran pro complain about TvP? werent PvT winrates in Janurary the highest they've ever been, even favored in Korea?


Yep they were the highest they've ever been... About 51 percent or something. And that was a fluke as seen by the next month where Terran went back up AFTER the emp nerf


This nerf to terran won't really effect PvT much, it's not common to see tons of ghosts using snipe on zealots en masse, and phoenix range is pretty much 100% irrelevant in that matchup.

Looks like it's pretty much only changing TvZ and PvZ.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Lord_J
Profile Joined April 2011
Kenya1085 Posts
February 10 2012 20:58 GMT
#1391
Sounds like a good set of changes. Further changes might be necessary, of course, but it's a process.
No relation to Monsieur J.
Masq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1792 Posts
February 10 2012 20:59 GMT
#1392
Mule change definitely needed.
Snipe needed a change too, but I think 25damage to massive is a little too much.
Christolight
Profile Joined December 2011
United States46 Posts
February 10 2012 20:59 GMT
#1393
Horrible...just horrible....who would want to even play Terran race now?

User was temp banned for this post.
Lets get Dangerous!
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
February 10 2012 20:59 GMT
#1394
Wow, very awesome. Great job Blizzard! Only complaint is hanging on to gold mineral bases, but it's their idea so they're attached to it. Hopefully they'll let go eventually.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
February 10 2012 20:59 GMT
#1395
On February 11 2012 05:56 oxxo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 05:55 AnYvia wrote:
LOL I called the ghost change back when there was the MVP vs July in GSL Semifinal (I think). I think this will make terrans play a little more creatively late game.


You shouldn't have. Mvp was already ahead and July completely throw away his ultras. He sent them against CCs and let them all be sniped. He could have just killed every ghost right there. That's a horrible game to use as an example of 'overpowered snipe'. It's like a terran sending 20 tanks unsieged into a horde of zerglings and then complaining that zerglings are overpowered.


Okay, how about Nestea vs. MVP at Blizzcon on Shakuras?
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Gimix
Profile Joined October 2010
United States67 Posts
February 10 2012 21:00 GMT
#1396
This seems like a car salesman's tactic

State you are going to change the snipe damage to 25 then change it to 35 after everyone hates it.
ale_jrb
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom72 Posts
February 10 2012 21:01 GMT
#1397
The snipe nerf seems a bit extreme to me - late game zerg is already pretty darn good, and now there's no way to handle a tech switch.

The mule and pheonix changes are good, obviously.
BuddhaMonk
Profile Joined August 2010
781 Posts
February 10 2012 21:01 GMT
#1398
Like someone else mentioned, I'm surprised that the ghost nerf was not to massive units only which would have solved the issue that David Kim mentioned without crippling ghost snipe vs everything besides casters.
chaopow
Profile Joined March 2011
United States556 Posts
February 10 2012 21:02 GMT
#1399
Its going to be interesting to see what terrans come up with now to answer late game zerg, and hopefully it balances everything out.
Soowoo AD.
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
February 10 2012 21:02 GMT
#1400
On February 11 2012 05:57 Bobgrimly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 05:50 Everlong wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:45 Bobgrimly wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:36 Everlong wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:34 Bobgrimly wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:28 Everlong wrote:
On February 11 2012 05:24 Bobgrimly wrote:
I really don't get all the terrans in this thread... Wah snipe is nerfed I can't play against zerg because my vikings will be fungaled..... That is singularly the most retarded statement EVER. Snipe is still as it was against infestors. (IT STILL DOES 45 DAMAGE TO INFESTORS)
Now though instead of sniping the broodlords and auto winning you just switch target to the infestors guarding them and SNIPE THE INFESTOR. Now the broodlords have no protection and one viking can beat 50 broodlords (just might take a while)

Seriously anyone qqing about this change is just upset that they can't mass one unit to win. Oh no. Scanning is so hard.


You will be eaten alive, because you don't know what you are talking about and you write like you ate all wisdom there is in sc2..


Cloak ghost... run towards SLOWLY moving broodlords. If you can't see infestors scan... you can now see burrowed and a lot more... find infestors.... queue up snipes... goodbye infestors. They can't fungal ghosts when they get sniped. A zerg would have to see you coming and have taken plenty of steps to prevent that. At the same time vikings can be pot shotting the broodlords and forcing infestors to come to the front. This forces the infestors forward and makes them easy targets for cloaked ghosts.

There is nothing wrong with this scenario. I have seen it happen in many tvz games just with usually ghosts sniping EVERYTHING. Now they can snipe infestors then burn energy to lower broodlord hp if they want. But not quite so stupidly op as it was. Being able to queue up snipe on a unit means the zerg has no time to react. The broodlords just evaporate. At least now you run some risk as a terran from broodlords.


By plenty of steps to prevent cloaked ghosts you mean like morph single overseer?


By morph single overseer I take it you failed to notice GHOSTS CAN SNIPE OVERSEERS AND VIKINGS HAVE STUPID RANGE.

You make it sound like zerg has it easy. You obviously have never watched or played in high level games. Overseers do not live long when ghosts are around... or worse... ghosts and vikings. Zerg usually has to morph like 5 if the terran is doing his job just to prevent autoloss.

The point is yes the zerg can do some things to win... but the terran also has plenty of tools to use and now just has to rely on something other than MASS SNIPE LULZ.

This is called balance. When you can't win with just one unit and the enemy has to use multiple units to counter your counters and vice versa.

And if you talk about approaching broodlords then you have never approached a tank line knowing you will lose half your forces just getting to it... before you can do damage. (that is hyperbole but I figured that was how you structure your arguments)


lol, so you snipe overseers and than stare at infestors with no energy.. :D Man, seriously, put your shit together and stop writing essays lacking any sign of logic. You telling me to go in with Vikings/Ghosts to snipe 2-3 overseers? This is your adivce? Just answer yes/no so I know our conversation isn't waste of time..


If you aren't blind.... use vikings on overseers which have to be at the front to SEE GHOSTS. They don't have scan range on their view....

Then if they pull their overseer back your vikings start sniping broodlords. If he brings forward infestors and an overseer (fungal DOESN'T ONE SHOT VIKINGS) you focus the overseer with your vikings while still sniping the infestors. Once detection is gone you go back to shooting broodlords like fish in a barrel knowing if he dares bring forward infestors you can snipe them with impunity.

I don't even play terran but I know that is SOOOO frustrating for a zerg. Unless you are silly enough to group your vikings and ghosts in one group on top of each other fungal is really not that great. And you can even marine split your vikings... guess what... one fungal per viking IS NOT COST EFFECTIVE.

Just because you expect to A move does not mean you should be able to. Use some micro instead of spamming snipe and you might just demolish zerg. Seriously so many terrans complaining about fungal... how do they beat fungal and banelings? Spread or don't engage from a grouped up position. Not always going to happen but you are not always going to win.

Also zerg has to do a lot of army control so don't complain about having to micro manage a battle please. That would be face palm worthy.


Could someone tell this guy hes way off? Hes not listening to me anymore.. Listen kid, you say "I don't even play terran" and then proceed to give me 443 advices like do this, this, this, this, this at the same time, if he does this, you do this and you win.. Wake up and stop writing in capitals as it only makes you look unmatured.
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