EPTPatch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 190
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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay. Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. | ||
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Vladoks
Germany136 Posts
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angra86
United States56 Posts
Cool, go ahead and sack 8 SCVs and build 4 more marauders like that'll make a fucking difference. Or maybe an extra 8 marines. It won't do shit to a Protoss like Parting who is setup correctly at end game with HT and colossus. Bank a few more thousand gas and wonder why your tier 1 & 2 army can't get the job done. Maybe if BC's had one extra range on their attack and a slightly higher base damage it would be worth it. But as it stands now they just don't do enough damage to warrant the extra upgrades and starports to crank up production. Also, even if you are the first one to cast, you can have yamato interrupted by feedback which is quite frustrating. Ravens are another answer to spending excess gas in the late game but even ignoring the fact that they're slow flying feedback lightning rods, none of their spells are particularly good against protoss save pdd for stalkers. Auto turrents aren't very good in the late game and HSM only deals 100 damage to protoss units that are particularly beefy hit point wise and large enough that splash won't count for much. Not to mention I believe that simply saving up enough to cast a HSM is enough to one shot a raven with feedback. | ||
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On February 14 2012 09:39 Icemind wrote: Does that mean they wont test the patch on the PTR at all or just not right now? Blizzard currently has no plans to have a PTR for 1.4.3 at all. | ||
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mlspmatt
Canada404 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
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mlspmatt
Canada404 Posts
On February 14 2012 10:29 angra86 wrote: Maybe if BC's had one extra range on their attack and a slightly higher base damage it would be worth it. But as it stands now they just don't do enough damage to warrant the extra upgrades and starports to crank up production. Also, even if you are the first one to cast, you can have yamato interrupted by feedback which is quite frustrating. Ravens are another answer to spending excess gas in the late game but even ignoring the fact that they're slow flying feedback lightning rods, none of their spells are particularly good against protoss save pdd for stalkers. Auto turrents aren't very good in the late game and HSM only deals 100 damage to protoss units that are particularly beefy hit point wise and large enough that splash won't count for much. Not to mention I believe that simply saving up enough to cast a HSM is enough to one shot a raven with feedback. I have to agree. Terran doesn'tt stay low tier because they want to. They stay there because the rest of their stuff sucks. Mech has been tried, it is worse than bio. BC's have been tried, they have energy so are susceptable to fedback, Stalkers or Voidray are very cost effective vs them. Thors suffer from the same problems, susceptable to fedback, and Immortals/chargelots are very cost effective. Ravens are a great way to spend gas but what exactley are Ravens going to do vs Chargelot/Archon compositions? Sure PDD could be used to help protect Vikings, granted, but otherwise they don't offer much. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On February 14 2012 10:29 Vladoks wrote: yeah feedback is a big problem for lategame tvp, terran has great units like thors (and well bcs.. i dont know) but can't use them because they lose their hp so fast with feedback :-/ u could emp your own units but ghosts and ghost energy are too precious for that That didn't stop Ryung against Tassadar, and it seemed to work pretty well. Assuming they hit feedback on your BC when it's at completely full energy, it won't even take out half it's hp, and you can EMP it or just Yamato a building or something (or even rocks!). As for upgrades folks, you get them anyway for your vikings. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote: Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus. I would have no argument with feedback not working on BCs/Thors as it would not change the game for me at all. I do have an argument with your comment about ghosts, since EMPs can be used to take 40% health away from colossus, just like feedback can be used for thors. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote: Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus. They took feedback from thors and protoss had no way of dealing with them so it returmed. Immortal is a total fail when strikecannonned. And even not SC, they get beat 1 on 1, a unit they are supposed to counter. Zealots takes 55 hits but they don't get that many with BFH protection on thors. VR get owned by Thors splash and marines. Carriers worked because thors splash was ineffective on thier bloated ass, but teching to carriers is another story. How about EMP the templar? Then you will see high lvl mech/BC in TvP. It's comming terrans have no choice to use more than 1/2 thier units if they like winning. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote: Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus. EMP works on colossi, should it do reduced effectiveness vs. massive too? | ||
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HellionDrop
281 Posts
On February 14 2012 11:04 tdt wrote: They took feedback from thors and protoss had no way of dealing with them so it returmed. Immortal is a total fail when strikecannonned. And even not SC, they get beat 1 on 1, a unit they are supposed to counter. Zealots takes 55 hits but they don't get that many with BFH protection on thors. VR get owned by Thors splash and marines. Carriers worked because thors splash was ineffective on thier bloated ass, but teching to carriers is another story. How about EMP the templar? Then you will see high lvl mech/BC in TvP. It's comming terrans have no choice to use more than 1/2 thier units if they like winning. thors lose to immortal 1 on 1 without strike cannon.. | ||
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Mehukannu
Finland421 Posts
On February 14 2012 11:02 hzflank wrote: I would have no argument with feedback not working on BCs/Thors as it would not change the game for me at all. I do have an argument with your comment about ghosts, since EMPs can be used to take 40% health away from colossus, just like feedback can be used for thors. actually it is 50% health from feedback'd  thor that has full energy. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On February 14 2012 11:05 Whitewing wrote: EMP works on colossi, should it do reduced effectiveness vs. massive too? Ghost counters every protoss unit big time. We've all seen 200/200 just get demolished with carpet EMPs. | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
Ghost change - I'll leave it up to the T users. I am not very familiar with how important Snipe ability has been in TvZ, but it's not that often that I get to see that in action, to be frank. Pheonix Change - Perhaps a bit too OP. Considering that Protoss has no problem going Twilight Council + Blink, I don't think going Fleet Beacon + Pheonix upgrade would be any longer/expensive than that. (assuming you have both gateways and stargates, which is often the case) This will effectively take mutalisks out of the equasion in the matchup, which is probably a bad news for the Z. Kind of agree with Wolf who commented on this the other day (in one of the MLG casts) that this change will be huge. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote: Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus. Ahh, silly Blizzard. Vikings don't happen to counter pretty much all of Protoss air+Colossi. Whoops. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On February 14 2012 11:10 HellionDrop wrote: thors lose to immortal 1 on 1 without strike cannon.. Not in my testing. | ||
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CounteR
New Zealand103 Posts
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mlspmatt
Canada404 Posts
On February 14 2012 10:59 Whitewing wrote: That didn't stop Ryung against Tassadar, and it seemed to work pretty well. Assuming they hit feedback on your BC when it's at completely full energy, it won't even take out half it's hp, and you can EMP it or just Yamato a building or something (or even rocks!). As for upgrades folks, you get them anyway for your vikings. This is what people argue who have no valid arguments to make. Make Battle Cruisers. It's been tried, it doesn't work. If your in a Max v Max battle and want to remax with 4 battle Cruisers. After the battle you start building your BC's, and wait the 90s for them to build. In that 90 seconds Toss can use his 15 gates to wapr in 30 supply 3 times before your BC's hit the field. How do you suggest Terran survives during that 90 seconds when 24 supply is occupied in the starport? That's assuming BC's give you any real advantage, which they don't. 4 Stalkers are about the same cost as 1 BC, are much more mobile, have more health, very similar DPS (Both fully upgraded) and can be produced much much faster. It simply doesn't make sense to make BC's. And yes of course Terran will have marauders to handle the Stalkers, but protoss will have charge-Lots + Archons to handle the marauders. There's no advantage to making BC's. And if you take into consideration the cost of getting the BC tech, it's a losing proposition for terran. | ||
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
On February 13 2012 16:07 blade55555 wrote: Funny how you say toss can do nothing about it. You obviously don't watch enough late game pvz with mothership + more then 3 bases. Super strong way stronger then infestor/bl/corruptor. Just found your post funny when toss has the strongest deathball in the game and yet you say zergs is "I win" ^^. As for your comment on most A-move race outside of muta's. Will toss is A move race except for FF and blink stalkers lol. If anything though terran can never A move they definitely have the most micro. Do I think they will figure out a way to deal with late game tvz? Possible, I know ravens haven't been expiremented much and just like when the ghost was considered bad and nobody used it, it will be messed around with and we'll know within a month or so if it really is awful or if its actually good. Scoff, the only place I see Archon toilet is on the US and EU servers where zergs don't play correctly (getting overeager to end the game and spreading out the BL so it takes two vortex).... You sure don't see toss willing to go to late game against zergs in the GSL unless they laid a crippling blow early on.... Granted I think the mothership+archons is stupid and broken the zerg deathball is far superior in both MU's. Toss should have a way to go toe to toe with bl/spine,infestor/transfuse/remax without relying on a shitty gimmick..... | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
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