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Patch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 190

Forum Index > SC2 General
4449 CommentsPost a Reply
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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.

Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions.
Vladoks
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany136 Posts
February 14 2012 01:29 GMT
#3781
yeah feedback is a big problem for lategame tvp, terran has great units like thors (and well bcs.. i dont know) but can't use them because they lose their hp so fast with feedback :-/ u could emp your own units but ghosts and ghost energy are too precious for that
angra86
Profile Joined October 2010
United States56 Posts
February 14 2012 01:29 GMT
#3782


Cool, go ahead and sack 8 SCVs and build 4 more marauders like that'll make a fucking difference.
Or maybe an extra 8 marines.
It won't do shit to a Protoss like Parting who is setup correctly at end game with HT and colossus.

Bank a few more thousand gas and wonder why your tier 1 & 2 army can't get the job done.


Maybe if BC's had one extra range on their attack and a slightly higher base damage it would be worth it. But as it stands now they just don't do enough damage to warrant the extra upgrades and starports to crank up production. Also, even if you are the first one to cast, you can have yamato interrupted by feedback which is quite frustrating.

Ravens are another answer to spending excess gas in the late game but even ignoring the fact that they're slow flying feedback lightning rods, none of their spells are particularly good against protoss save pdd for stalkers. Auto turrents aren't very good in the late game and HSM only deals 100 damage to protoss units that are particularly beefy hit point wise and large enough that splash won't count for much. Not to mention I believe that simply saving up enough to cast a HSM is enough to one shot a raven with feedback.
juicyjames *
Profile Joined August 2011
United States3815 Posts
February 14 2012 01:30 GMT
#3783
On February 14 2012 09:39 Icemind wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 07:20 juicyjames wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4044464943?page=17#330

On February 13 2012 12:16 Kaivax, Community Manager wrote:
We have decided that, at this time, we will not be operating a public test realm for the 1.4.3 patch.

I have edited the previous post by Aldrexus in this thread to reflect that fact.

We apologize for the confusion created on this subject. Thank you for the excellent feedback on the many other topics that have come up in this thread.

Does that mean they wont test the patch on the PTR at all or just not right now?

Blizzard currently has no plans to have a PTR for 1.4.3 at all.
This Week in SC2Find out what happened 'This Week in Starcraft 2': http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=278126
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 01:31:46
February 14 2012 01:30 GMT
#3784
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
February 14 2012 01:37 GMT
#3785
Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 01:45:24
February 14 2012 01:43 GMT
#3786
On February 14 2012 10:29 angra86 wrote:
Show nested quote +


Cool, go ahead and sack 8 SCVs and build 4 more marauders like that'll make a fucking difference.
Or maybe an extra 8 marines.
It won't do shit to a Protoss like Parting who is setup correctly at end game with HT and colossus.

Bank a few more thousand gas and wonder why your tier 1 & 2 army can't get the job done.


Maybe if BC's had one extra range on their attack and a slightly higher base damage it would be worth it. But as it stands now they just don't do enough damage to warrant the extra upgrades and starports to crank up production. Also, even if you are the first one to cast, you can have yamato interrupted by feedback which is quite frustrating.

Ravens are another answer to spending excess gas in the late game but even ignoring the fact that they're slow flying feedback lightning rods, none of their spells are particularly good against protoss save pdd for stalkers. Auto turrents aren't very good in the late game and HSM only deals 100 damage to protoss units that are particularly beefy hit point wise and large enough that splash won't count for much. Not to mention I believe that simply saving up enough to cast a HSM is enough to one shot a raven with feedback.

I have to agree.

Terran doesn'tt stay low tier because they want to. They stay there because the rest of their stuff sucks. Mech has been tried, it is worse than bio.

BC's have been tried, they have energy so are susceptable to fedback, Stalkers or Voidray are very cost effective vs them.

Thors suffer from the same problems, susceptable to fedback, and Immortals/chargelots are very cost effective.

Ravens are a great way to spend gas but what exactley are Ravens going to do vs Chargelot/Archon compositions? Sure PDD could be used to help protect Vikings, granted, but otherwise they don't offer much.

Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 01:59:44
February 14 2012 01:59 GMT
#3787
On February 14 2012 10:29 Vladoks wrote:
yeah feedback is a big problem for lategame tvp, terran has great units like thors (and well bcs.. i dont know) but can't use them because they lose their hp so fast with feedback :-/ u could emp your own units but ghosts and ghost energy are too precious for that


That didn't stop Ryung against Tassadar, and it seemed to work pretty well. Assuming they hit feedback on your BC when it's at completely full energy, it won't even take out half it's hp, and you can EMP it or just Yamato a building or something (or even rocks!).

As for upgrades folks, you get them anyway for your vikings.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
February 14 2012 02:02 GMT
#3788
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote:
Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus.


I would have no argument with feedback not working on BCs/Thors as it would not change the game for me at all. I do have an argument with your comment about ghosts, since EMPs can be used to take 40% health away from colossus, just like feedback can be used for thors.
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 02:07:34
February 14 2012 02:04 GMT
#3789
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote:
Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus.

They took feedback from thors and protoss had no way of dealing with them so it returmed. Immortal is a total fail when strikecannonned. And even not SC, they get beat 1 on 1, a unit they are supposed to counter. Zealots takes 55 hits but they don't get that many with BFH protection on thors. VR get owned by Thors splash and marines. Carriers worked because thors splash was ineffective on thier bloated ass, but teching to carriers is another story.

How about EMP the templar? Then you will see high lvl mech/BC in TvP. It's comming terrans have no choice to use more than 1/2 thier units if they like winning.
MC for president
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
February 14 2012 02:05 GMT
#3790
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote:
Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus.


EMP works on colossi, should it do reduced effectiveness vs. massive too?
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
HellionDrop
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
281 Posts
February 14 2012 02:10 GMT
#3791
On February 14 2012 11:04 tdt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote:
Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus.

They took feedback from thors and protoss had no way of dealing with them so it returmed. Immortal is a total fail when strikecannonned. And even not SC, they get beat 1 on 1, a unit they are supposed to counter. Zealots takes 55 hits but they don't get that many with BFH protection on thors. VR get owned by Thors splash and marines. Carriers worked because thors splash was ineffective on thier bloated ass, but teching to carriers is another story.

How about EMP the templar? Then you will see high lvl mech/BC in TvP. It's comming terrans have no choice to use more than 1/2 thier units if they like winning.


thors lose to immortal 1 on 1 without strike cannon..
Mehukannu
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland421 Posts
February 14 2012 02:10 GMT
#3792
On February 14 2012 11:02 hzflank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote:
Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus.


I would have no argument with feedback not working on BCs/Thors as it would not change the game for me at all. I do have an argument with your comment about ghosts, since EMPs can be used to take 40% health away from colossus, just like feedback can be used for thors.

actually it is 50% health from feedback'd (Wiki)thor that has full energy.
C=('. ' Q)
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
February 14 2012 02:17 GMT
#3793
On February 14 2012 11:05 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote:
Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus.


EMP works on colossi, should it do reduced effectiveness vs. massive too?

Ghost counters every protoss unit big time. We've all seen 200/200 just get demolished with carpet EMPs.
MC for president
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 02:18:38
February 14 2012 02:17 GMT
#3794
This patch changes look like too obvious a pandering to the community. A mule on gold was not an issue. Heck, mules were not the issue. People understand that Terran needs workers do other stuff (build, repair, etc.) and Mules make up for that. The complain has always been that there is no cool-down on Mules, allowing Terrans to rain dozens of mules at once to compensate their less-than-perfect macro. This Mule change accomplishes absolutely nothing. But certainly comes up as diplomatic. (Hey, we at the Blizzard always listen to the players!)

Ghost change - I'll leave it up to the T users. I am not very familiar with how important Snipe ability has been in TvZ, but it's not that often that I get to see that in action, to be frank.

Pheonix Change - Perhaps a bit too OP. Considering that Protoss has no problem going Twilight Council + Blink, I don't think going Fleet Beacon + Pheonix upgrade would be any longer/expensive than that. (assuming you have both gateways and stargates, which is often the case) This will effectively take mutalisks out of the equasion in the matchup, which is probably a bad news for the Z. Kind of agree with Wolf who commented on this the other day (in one of the MLG casts) that this change will be huge.
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
February 14 2012 02:22 GMT
#3795
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote:
Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus.


Ahh, silly Blizzard.

Vikings don't happen to counter pretty much all of Protoss air+Colossi. Whoops.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
February 14 2012 02:23 GMT
#3796
On February 14 2012 11:10 HellionDrop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 11:04 tdt wrote:
On February 14 2012 10:37 vthree wrote:
Imo, feedback should not work on massive or at least reduce effectiveness. HTs are as versatile as ghosts but it also counters BOTH BC and THors while ghost does not counter colossus.

They took feedback from thors and protoss had no way of dealing with them so it returmed. Immortal is a total fail when strikecannonned. And even not SC, they get beat 1 on 1, a unit they are supposed to counter. Zealots takes 55 hits but they don't get that many with BFH protection on thors. VR get owned by Thors splash and marines. Carriers worked because thors splash was ineffective on thier bloated ass, but teching to carriers is another story.

How about EMP the templar? Then you will see high lvl mech/BC in TvP. It's comming terrans have no choice to use more than 1/2 thier units if they like winning.


thors lose to immortal 1 on 1 without strike cannon..

Not in my testing.
MC for president
CounteR
Profile Joined August 2010
New Zealand103 Posts
February 14 2012 02:24 GMT
#3797
anyone know when the new patch will start ??
GG GL HF
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 02:31:03
February 14 2012 02:28 GMT
#3798
On February 14 2012 10:59 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 10:29 Vladoks wrote:
yeah feedback is a big problem for lategame tvp, terran has great units like thors (and well bcs.. i dont know) but can't use them because they lose their hp so fast with feedback :-/ u could emp your own units but ghosts and ghost energy are too precious for that


That didn't stop Ryung against Tassadar, and it seemed to work pretty well. Assuming they hit feedback on your BC when it's at completely full energy, it won't even take out half it's hp, and you can EMP it or just Yamato a building or something (or even rocks!).

As for upgrades folks, you get them anyway for your vikings.

This is what people argue who have no valid arguments to make. Make Battle Cruisers. It's been tried, it doesn't work.

If your in a Max v Max battle and want to remax with 4 battle Cruisers. After the battle you start building your BC's, and wait the 90s for them to build. In that 90 seconds Toss can use his 15 gates to wapr in 30 supply 3 times before your BC's hit the field.

How do you suggest Terran survives during that 90 seconds when 24 supply is occupied in the starport? That's assuming BC's give you any real advantage, which they don't.

4 Stalkers are about the same cost as 1 BC, are much more mobile, have more health, very similar DPS (Both fully upgraded) and can be produced much much faster. It simply doesn't make sense to make BC's.

And yes of course Terran will have marauders to handle the Stalkers, but protoss will have charge-Lots + Archons to handle the marauders. There's no advantage to making BC's. And if you take into consideration the cost of getting the BC tech, it's a losing proposition for terran.
Rorschach
Profile Joined May 2010
United States623 Posts
February 14 2012 02:32 GMT
#3799
On February 13 2012 16:07 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2012 15:00 Rorschach wrote:
On February 11 2012 14:23 SkimGuy wrote:
On February 11 2012 13:21 Arkless wrote:
On February 11 2012 12:40 Xorphene wrote:
On February 11 2012 03:11 xTrim wrote:

overmake vikings = lose to f**king ultra switch... god i hate this, why do i keep playing?


Stop feeling so nerfed, zerg's have suffered this forever.

Overmake corruptors in ZvP and lose to gateway remax.

Stop feeling so special, Terrans moaning about infestors vs vikings need to realise they simply need to split their marines.

This is a fantastic patch.

The most bias response, and most rediculous. Split your marines? Are you trolling? You negate the fact entirely as well that corruptors, the pre cursor to BL's, counter your bl counter of vikings. They just roll ur main army with ling bling, snipe off ur vikings, remax with bls. That doesn't seem weird???? NOW we also are hella nerfed if both are on golds, it hurts the terran to drop a mule period because of 0 bonus, you lose out in the end.

Maybe Terran has to start thinking like Zerg now and take advantage of the fact that you can't win a head-on engagement, but your army is much more mobile and and can be stronger around the map instead of 1 big ball of units...
i.e Stop deathballing and get better



I find your statement extremely hypocritical. On one hand you say the terran should stop trying to build a deathball of ghosts to deal with lategame zergs and just "get better" YET zergs want to get 80 drones and bld BL/deathball (the "I win" unit)???
Terran already have to micro their asses off to trade effceintly.
I am getting so sick of the irony of Z bitching about T and P a-moving to victory when zerg is the most a-move race outside of mutas and a few other units.....


I predict terran will start to do what us toss players do in PvZ, namely kill the zerg with a timing/2 base before they get up their superior deathball up.....



Funny how you say toss can do nothing about it. You obviously don't watch enough late game pvz with mothership + more then 3 bases. Super strong way stronger then infestor/bl/corruptor. Just found your post funny when toss has the strongest deathball in the game and yet you say zergs is "I win" ^^.

As for your comment on most A-move race outside of muta's. Will toss is A move race except for FF and blink stalkers lol. If anything though terran can never A move they definitely have the most micro.

Do I think they will figure out a way to deal with late game tvz? Possible, I know ravens haven't been expiremented much and just like when the ghost was considered bad and nobody used it, it will be messed around with and we'll know within a month or so if it really is awful or if its actually good.




Scoff, the only place I see Archon toilet is on the US and EU servers where zergs don't play correctly (getting overeager to end the game and spreading out the BL so it takes two vortex)....
You sure don't see toss willing to go to late game against zergs in the GSL unless they laid a crippling blow early on....

Granted I think the mothership+archons is stupid and broken the zerg deathball is far superior in both MU's.
Toss should have a way to go toe to toe with bl/spine,infestor/transfuse/remax without relying on a shitty gimmick.....
En Taro Adun, Executor!
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 02:41:01
February 14 2012 02:39 GMT
#3800
Brotosses I've been thinking about this Phoenix upgrade and it is definity useful even as much as it costs and as late as it comes. As we all know phoenix is supposed to be hard counter to mutas but their price, build time, range and limited/non use vs ground forces made them ineffective and BO loss counter. especially at large muta numbers then protoss just can't leave his base or he dies. This upgrade does not change the current meta game before 10-12 min. Zerg will still be able to do muta harass in small numbers and a small number of stalkers or small number of range 4 phoenix could stay at home to defend and it allows protoss to actually move out. Where it changes if the Zerg decides to totally dedicate himself to mutas to the point those stalkers or pheonix are just overwhelmed. Then we can tech, for a price, to super hard counter with micro, and still get get to leave our base with main force and not be overrun by mutas. Our phoenix still get owned by infestors and hydras so it allows us to defend and not have 30 useless phoenix after we deal with mutas. We just build 5-8 when we see mutas and that's as far as we ever have to go besides tech. Pretty cool huh?

MC for president
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