EPTPatch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 136
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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay. Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. | ||
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PureBalls
Austria383 Posts
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Serelitz
Netherlands2895 Posts
On February 11 2012 21:17 Zeetox wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8Wfcc.png) Terran has only ~35% win ratio in games over 20 minutes long, yet Blizzard decides to nerf the best Terran late game unit. I don't think it is all right, maybe they should think about making it available much later, like Ghost Academy only after Fusion Core? I think, that right now the only problem with Ghost is it's ability to decimate everything in early 1-base pushes with Ghosts and Marines vs Terran and Protoss. That was from 1 tournament, it's not some end-all-be-all truth. As a P, ghosts were too strong in lategame TvZ if used right, and it allowed for ridiculous energy-for-resources trades to turtle in half map scenarios. I think a better fix would have been 45 (-20 to massive) so that it only changes for ultras and BLs which is their main intent. Still a good change overall though. edit: 1base ghost pushes aren't a problem at all. I haven't seen one used in a pro game since TLO vs Nada last spring or so. | ||
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Dariusz
Poland657 Posts
On February 11 2012 21:22 Noocta wrote: Sorry to say that but that's not something you can use as an argument. :/ Ahahahahaha. Sorry to say but he just did and stats are on his side. You want terran to win the most in early, mid AND in late game?  3 out of 4 checkpoints on that graph are in favour of terran and you find the one that isn't and complain ^^ Those threads are amazing ^^ | ||
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HallBregg
134 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On February 11 2012 21:30 Dariusz wrote: Ahahahahaha. Sorry to say but he just did and stats are on his side. You want terran to win the most in early, mid AND in late game? 3 out of 4 checkpoints on that graph are in favour of terran and you find the one that isn't and complain ^^ Those threads are amazing ^^No, i want something balanced at all point because i'm not a jerk about the game. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
On February 11 2012 18:14 Notfragile wrote: I love the QQing around here. July vs MVP on I believe GSL August. Just watch. Wave after wave of broods or ultras (constantly switching) out of 5 bases and ghost just sniping the shit out of them. This is not cool. T3 must be painful to deal with. Not impossible but painful. Spam snipe + some siege tanks is easy enough. But on the other hand, only 25 damage seems really really weak. Make it 35 and see how it rolls. Because it's true that zergs just defend till the late game and then try to win with broods or ultras (just because we cannot break a defensively positioned terran without being at least 40 supply up). And it's true that the terran needs an all-around solution, good for both ultra and brood. But as a SUPPORT unit. Marauders + ghosts to soften ultras up. Vikings + ghosts to kill some broods off before the engagement actually begins. 25 damage seems to severe of a nerf. I actually like the ghost transition in the late game but as a supplement to the normal army. Not 20 ghosts plus a few tanks = dead zerg army. More like 6 ghosts + tanks + marauders = dead ultralisk army. And then if he switches make some vikings. We need to be able to kill a terran who does not respond well with the switches. Oh I get it, so MVP should have lost then. Since July went broodlord and ultra I guess it's a guarantee loss for Terran right? MVP went Ghosts because of the potential tech switch. Crushing an ultralisk army with marauders and then facing a broodlord army would be automatic loss. Ling baneling would have smashed that btw. ... So much bias here. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
The current "25 + 25 vs(?) Psionic" is kinda silly and I cant really understand why Blizzard does such hard to understand special damage. Why should a bullet do more damage to psionic? Is it made of radioactive / psychoactive metal? The Ghost should be affected by negatively just by handling them and then it might increase the efficiency of a Ghost if she wouldnt use that kind of ammunition. I could understand "vs non-massive" due to thick skin and huge size, but not that stupid solution Blizzard came up with. The gameplay reasoning is also pretty bad, because a Terran player who plays defensively will leave most of the map for the Zerg to farm from and once that happens it most likely doesnt matter which units the Terran has, because the Zerg can send in waves after waves of units - including several tech switches so the Terran has a bad defensive unit mix (which is a key to winning against a good Terran) - and win easily. | ||
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Vinland
Argentina136 Posts
But to be fair, as a spectator it was really boring to see most lategame Zerg stuff just being sniped by a mass of ghosts. Hopefully, well see more infestors Emp-ed, vikings spread and some PDD action. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On February 11 2012 21:34 Vinland wrote: Yeah, Im not sure how the terrans will handle this. But to be fair, as a spectator it was really boring to see most lategame Zerg stuff just being sniped by a mass of ghosts. Hopefully, well see more infestors Emp-ed, vikings spread and some PDD action. If only, IF ONLY PDD still worked on BL. | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
On February 11 2012 20:53 RRjr wrote: Yes. Pretty much. That is if you decide to let Zerg expand freely or fail at preventing him from doing so. Enter the land of meaningful decisions and consequences. And again, its not like Ghosts and Snipe are being removed from the game. They're even better against Infestor / Templar now. They are the same vs templar. Took 2 snipes in each patch. The only thing they kill better now are infestors and ghosts. The rest is either equal (psionics) or much worse. | ||
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Torra
Norway469 Posts
On February 11 2012 21:26 Cirqueenflex wrote: exactly what i thought. Take 5 zerg vs 2 base terran as an example, and zerg still cannot win until they get a ton of brood lords. Imagine terran could only kill zerg when they get 4-6 bases and mass battlecruiser. That's the usual scenario for zergs to win vs turtling terran. Yeah, it's totally destroying the game that terran can sit in a lost game for while longer than the other races, and still lose ofc. And if terran had good T3 tech like zerg for lategame, terrans wouldn't even be complaining about the ghost nerf, ghosts are just the only/best way to deal with lategame zerg. | ||
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halvorg
Norway717 Posts
10 full energy ghosts will be able to kill 8 full hp brood lords post patch. That is a 200/100 2 supply unit countering a 300/250 4 supply unit 5:4. Isolated I don't see how the sky is falling over this, but I play neither Zerg nor Terran. Alternatively 1000 minerals / 500 gas / 10 supply of Terran will kill 1200 minerals / 1000 gas / 16 supply Zerg very quickly. | ||
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antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
On February 11 2012 21:41 halvorg wrote: You can and will probably still use ghosts to deal with brood lords (and perhaps ultras, but those are easier to deal with). 10 full energy ghosts will be able to kill 8 full hp brood lords post patch. That is a 200/100 2 supply unit countering a 300/250 4 supply unit 5:4. Isolated I don't see how the sky is falling over this, but I play neither Zerg nor Terran. Alternatively 1000 minerals / 500 gas / 10 supply of Terran will kill 1200 minerals / 1000 gas / 16 supply Zerg very quickly. I see ghosts falling in the same trap as reapers: time. In case of reapers, building time don't justify them, in case of ghosts the time and apm required to snipe BL's will not cut it. | ||
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KAmaKAsa
Finland210 Posts
and wtf is with the bonus damage to psionic? you can kill ghosts better with snipe in tvt now or what? templars have 80 hp so doesnt affect that one bit... and zealots are just light and biological | ||
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PureBalls
Austria383 Posts
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NET
United States703 Posts
Snipe kills infestors faster. Doesn't roll over Brood Lords and Ultras as easy. Phoenix can probably defend vs a ridiculous amount of mutas now, yet still allows mutas to be good harass units. As for gold minerals, I feel they have no room in a competitive game like sc2, but its a step in the right direction. Only thing I would suggest is to maybe put the phoenix range upgrade on the cyber core, so its not as hard to get the upgrade if needed. Possibly similar to the dragoon range upgrade in scbw. Steps in the right direction. | ||
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Roxor9999
Netherlands771 Posts
On February 11 2012 21:49 PureBalls wrote: Will the phoenix upgrade affect the range of graviton? No. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
ghost change: 25 dmg is still REALLY good vs BLs since 10 ghosts oneshot them pre and post patch. one ghost has 8 snipes, so you still trade cost efficient. lets say you have 20 ghosts = 4k 2k and 12 BLs which is 3k 3k. 20 ghosts = 160 snipes = you can oneshot 16 BLs AND all BLs are dead, often some ghosts will survive. snipe-buff vs infestors is also nice. as for the ultralisk tech switch. ghosts are now only okay vs ultralisks, BUT ultralisks themselves suck pretty hard, so there is no real need for mass rauder to survive an ultralisk techswitch. again our 20 ghosts vs 8 ultralisks (40 supply vs 40 supply) = exactly 8 dead ultralisks. lategame terra has more army supply (mules) AND PFs (no supply) which are really good themselves and help to create chokes in which ultras just suck hardcore. so @ all terrans saying ghost will suck after patch: mass ghost will still be viable BUT it wont be OP like it was pre EMP and snipe nerf. just go 10 ghosts + 10 viks lategame and add some PFs and OCs and there is no need to fear the ultralisk techswicht. | ||
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PureBalls
Austria383 Posts
Yeah, it would have been probably too good, if it did.  | ||
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