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Patch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 135

Forum Index > SC2 General
4449 CommentsPost a Reply
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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.

Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions.
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22261 Posts
February 11 2012 12:08 GMT
#2681
On February 11 2012 21:00 var username wrote:
Why not make Snipe 25 vs Massive and 45 v everything else?


I agree with this suggestion.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
February 11 2012 12:09 GMT
#2682
On February 11 2012 18:59 HaXXspetten wrote:
Okay, for all you Terrans complaining that it will now take way too many snipes to kill Brood Lords/Ultras, try to get this in your head: Snipe is not supposed to kill Brood Lords/Ultras. Okay? They're meant to snipe low-hp, high-priority casters, like High Templars and Infestors, not the beefiest units in the game.


I guess nothing is supposed to kills BLs then, and zerg should win everytime they get them.
EMP si already the anti caster spell, it make no sense at all for ghost to get a second spell for that.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
kckkryptonite
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
1126 Posts
February 11 2012 12:11 GMT
#2683
Ugh, I hate the Snipe nerf, really squelches creative play and pigeon-holes yet another unit.
RIP avilo, qxc keyboard 2013, RIP Nathanis keyboard 2014
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
February 11 2012 12:12 GMT
#2684
On February 11 2012 21:00 thezanursic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 20:45 cyclone25 wrote:
On February 11 2012 20:34 thezanursic wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

No just no.
35% winrate lategame is HORRIBLE. I don't care if the matchup is 50%.
65% earlygame is to much and 35% is to little. It's like blizzard is looking in to the overall stats instead of the games themselves the snipe nerf will make this even worse. Why not give Terran a lategame buff and Zerg an early game buff?

NOTE: You have to click on the picture to see the TvZ stats.

Ohh and the 20 minute being balanced means that Marine Medivac Siege tank is equal to Muta Bane Ling. Soo buffs musn't include this units (obviously)


I agree with you, but a simple patch can't fix a flawed game design. To do major changes in ZvT early, mid, or late game we need new units, game mechanics, etc.

I understand that but nerfing snipe in a situation where things can only get worse with a nerf is just retarded. If they can't fix it then don't make it worse because to anyone who has minimal knowledge knows that this won't fix anything it will more so ruin it. I can say 100% that if this goes live it will be reverted in a month or two.

Or some other buff/ nerf will be made. I don't think Blizz likes mass casters to be an option in general. We had the HT KA nerf, the EMP nerf and now Snipe.

Something will have to be done about the BL infestor deathball, so maybe an infestor nerf vs air or something.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Lesrah
Profile Joined November 2010
Portugal110 Posts
February 11 2012 12:13 GMT
#2685
I can bet if this goes live, toss will stop 2 base all in vs zerg, but terran will start to do it..
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
February 11 2012 12:14 GMT
#2686
On February 11 2012 21:12 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 21:00 thezanursic wrote:
On February 11 2012 20:45 cyclone25 wrote:
On February 11 2012 20:34 thezanursic wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

No just no.
35% winrate lategame is HORRIBLE. I don't care if the matchup is 50%.
65% earlygame is to much and 35% is to little. It's like blizzard is looking in to the overall stats instead of the games themselves the snipe nerf will make this even worse. Why not give Terran a lategame buff and Zerg an early game buff?

NOTE: You have to click on the picture to see the TvZ stats.

Ohh and the 20 minute being balanced means that Marine Medivac Siege tank is equal to Muta Bane Ling. Soo buffs musn't include this units (obviously)


I agree with you, but a simple patch can't fix a flawed game design. To do major changes in ZvT early, mid, or late game we need new units, game mechanics, etc.

I understand that but nerfing snipe in a situation where things can only get worse with a nerf is just retarded. If they can't fix it then don't make it worse because to anyone who has minimal knowledge knows that this won't fix anything it will more so ruin it. I can say 100% that if this goes live it will be reverted in a month or two.

Or some other buff/ nerf will be made. I don't think Blizz likes mass casters to be an option in general. We had the HT KA nerf, the EMP nerf and now Snipe.

Something will have to be done about the BL infestor deathball, so maybe an infestor nerf vs air or something.


To be fair, the snipe nerf is almost as bad as the time when they wanted to make Fungal not work against air units.
But this time, everyone agreed it was too much of a nerf.

Here, every zerg is okay with getting a huge advantage in lategame TvZ where they don't really need one. :/
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Recognizable
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Netherlands1552 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 12:15:55
February 11 2012 12:15 GMT
#2687
On February 11 2012 21:14 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 21:12 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On February 11 2012 21:00 thezanursic wrote:
On February 11 2012 20:45 cyclone25 wrote:
On February 11 2012 20:34 thezanursic wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

No just no.
35% winrate lategame is HORRIBLE. I don't care if the matchup is 50%.
65% earlygame is to much and 35% is to little. It's like blizzard is looking in to the overall stats instead of the games themselves the snipe nerf will make this even worse. Why not give Terran a lategame buff and Zerg an early game buff?

NOTE: You have to click on the picture to see the TvZ stats.

Ohh and the 20 minute being balanced means that Marine Medivac Siege tank is equal to Muta Bane Ling. Soo buffs musn't include this units (obviously)


I agree with you, but a simple patch can't fix a flawed game design. To do major changes in ZvT early, mid, or late game we need new units, game mechanics, etc.

I understand that but nerfing snipe in a situation where things can only get worse with a nerf is just retarded. If they can't fix it then don't make it worse because to anyone who has minimal knowledge knows that this won't fix anything it will more so ruin it. I can say 100% that if this goes live it will be reverted in a month or two.

Or some other buff/ nerf will be made. I don't think Blizz likes mass casters to be an option in general. We had the HT KA nerf, the EMP nerf and now Snipe.

Something will have to be done about the BL infestor deathball, so maybe an infestor nerf vs air or something.


To be fair, the snipe nerf is almost as bad as the time when they wanted to make Fungal not work against air units.
But this time, everyone agreed it was too much of a nerf.

Here, every zerg is okay with getting a huge advantage in lategame TvZ where they don't really need one. :/


Majority of whiners are Zerg players because of their role models and being the most played race. Go figure.
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
February 11 2012 12:16 GMT
#2688
snipe cut is too much imo. 30+30 might be a better option.
you can't even snipe a baneling anymore!
snipe will now vastly overlap with emp now (which is better in any regard).
Mehukannu
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland421 Posts
February 11 2012 12:17 GMT
#2689
On February 11 2012 21:09 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 18:59 HaXXspetten wrote:
Okay, for all you Terrans complaining that it will now take way too many snipes to kill Brood Lords/Ultras, try to get this in your head: Snipe is not supposed to kill Brood Lords/Ultras. Okay? They're meant to snipe low-hp, high-priority casters, like High Templars and Infestors, not the beefiest units in the game.


I guess nothing is supposed to kills BLs then, and zerg should win everytime they get them.
EMP si already the anti caster spell, it make no sense at all for ghost to get a second spell for that.

I have to agree with this. Why there needs to be 2 different spells on a same unit to deal with casters. Hell, if I want to kill infestors i'd rather use tanks or small group of marines to kill them rather than ghosts.
C=('. ' Q)
deathzz
Profile Joined September 2011
669 Posts
February 11 2012 12:17 GMT
#2690
imo snipe shld be nerfed against ultra that's all. how is any terran gonna kill a late game ball of corruptors, broodlords and infestors? in ZvP we are already seeing a big battle with vortex detemining the game. In ZvT i really don't see how terrans can stop that ball.
Korean overlords
Antares_
Profile Joined October 2011
Poland269 Posts
February 11 2012 12:17 GMT
#2691
[image loading]

Terran has only ~35% win ratio in games over 20 minutes long, yet Blizzard decides to nerf the best Terran late game unit. I don't think it is all right, maybe they should think about making it available much later, like Ghost Academy only after Fusion Core? I think, that right now the only problem with Ghost is it's ability to decimate everything in early 1-base pushes with Ghosts and Marines vs Terran and Protoss.
If you make no mistake, yet still lose - you don't understand the game. Spiral out, keep going.
Torra
Profile Joined October 2011
Norway469 Posts
February 11 2012 12:17 GMT
#2692
On February 11 2012 21:08 Jumonji wrote:
Show nested quote +
I don't get where u are going with this. So zerg should just be able to faceroll the terran once they get hive tech? Ghosts do not even own the zerg T3, zerg trades decent, just fighting the ghosts head on. Then they can remax much easier than terran with a whole new composition, like lower tier units to deal with mass ghosts (assuming that's the problem).

Ghosts are not even that good vs. ultras. I bet u guys have watched like 3 MVP games and concluded that ghosts are OP vs. ultras. Where MVP is already ahead and has better position. U want marauders vs. ultras as they're more cost effective.


What the point remaxing with a new composition? Terran have the most versatiles units of the game this is not impossible to handle. Just watch bomber macro,it's just horrible how fast he remax his army. I don't say everyone can do that, but this is possible as a terran.

Terran is still the weakest race at remaxing and getting units fast into battle (zerg can easily remax with 100+ lings and P has warpgate). Terran has to slowly remake their army with the right units from different production facilities.

Terran also has the weakest lategame army as it is now and therefore they usually just die if their army dies.

Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
February 11 2012 12:18 GMT
#2693
On February 11 2012 21:08 EvilTeletubby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 21:00 var username wrote:
Why not make Snipe 25 vs Massive and 45 v everything else?


I agree with this suggestion.

I don't I'd rather be able to 2 shot infestors than 4 shot roaches or 2 shot Hydras.
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
PureBalls
Profile Joined January 2012
Austria383 Posts
February 11 2012 12:19 GMT
#2694
On February 11 2012 02:12 [17]Purple wrote:
I don't know if it was mentioned but will snipe still be restricted to Biological units as not all Psionic units are Biological (Archons).

Even if not, Archons have so much HP, that using snipe instead of EMP seems irrational energy wise.
Zurles
Profile Joined February 2009
United Kingdom1659 Posts
February 11 2012 12:20 GMT
#2695
On February 11 2012 21:17 Zeetox wrote:

Terran has only ~35% win ratio in games over 20 minutes long, yet Blizzard decides to nerf the best Terran late game unit. I don't think it is all right, maybe they should think about making it available much later, like Ghost Academy only after Fusion Core? I think, that right now the only problem with Ghost is it's ability to decimate everything in early 1-base pushes with Ghosts and Marines vs Terran and Protoss.



Hilarious, did you consider the fact they have a 35% win rate in games over 20 minutes long is because in the majority of those games were over MANY minutes before but Terrans can hold on to lost games for a very long time?

because that's obviously why.
Blezza
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom191 Posts
February 11 2012 12:22 GMT
#2696
On February 11 2012 21:17 Zeetox wrote:
[image loading]

Terran has only ~35% win ratio in games over 20 minutes long, yet Blizzard decides to nerf the best Terran late game unit. I don't think it is all right, maybe they should think about making it available much later, like Ghost Academy only after Fusion Core? I think, that right now the only problem with Ghost is it's ability to decimate everything in early 1-base pushes with Ghosts and Marines vs Terran and Protoss.


Those figures are from MLG Providence, you can't use one tournament's figures for balance.
Winners race > Other race I don't play > My race. How Twitch chat work in tournaments...
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
February 11 2012 12:22 GMT
#2697
On February 11 2012 21:20 Zurles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 21:17 Zeetox wrote:

Terran has only ~35% win ratio in games over 20 minutes long, yet Blizzard decides to nerf the best Terran late game unit. I don't think it is all right, maybe they should think about making it available much later, like Ghost Academy only after Fusion Core? I think, that right now the only problem with Ghost is it's ability to decimate everything in early 1-base pushes with Ghosts and Marines vs Terran and Protoss.



Hilarious, did you consider the fact they have a 35% win rate in games over 20 minutes long is because in the majority of those games were over MANY minutes before but Terrans can hold on to lost games for a very long time?

because that's obviously why.


Sorry to say that but that's not something you can use as an argument. :/
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
NormandyBoy
Profile Joined May 2010
France200 Posts
February 11 2012 12:23 GMT
#2698
It may be necessera to nerf ghosts on late game TvZ, but I don't like that the change impacts every match-up.
In TvP, I know HT are psionic but sometimes it's worth it to snipe zealots, now you'll want to save your energy for EMP 100% of the time.
Even in TvT some cute ghosts rushes are now gone, and those were not imbalanced, they were very rare.

Reducing the damage versus massive is a cool idea I think.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
February 11 2012 12:25 GMT
#2699
On February 11 2012 21:14 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 21:12 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On February 11 2012 21:00 thezanursic wrote:
On February 11 2012 20:45 cyclone25 wrote:
On February 11 2012 20:34 thezanursic wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

No just no.
35% winrate lategame is HORRIBLE. I don't care if the matchup is 50%.
65% earlygame is to much and 35% is to little. It's like blizzard is looking in to the overall stats instead of the games themselves the snipe nerf will make this even worse. Why not give Terran a lategame buff and Zerg an early game buff?

NOTE: You have to click on the picture to see the TvZ stats.

Ohh and the 20 minute being balanced means that Marine Medivac Siege tank is equal to Muta Bane Ling. Soo buffs musn't include this units (obviously)


I agree with you, but a simple patch can't fix a flawed game design. To do major changes in ZvT early, mid, or late game we need new units, game mechanics, etc.

I understand that but nerfing snipe in a situation where things can only get worse with a nerf is just retarded. If they can't fix it then don't make it worse because to anyone who has minimal knowledge knows that this won't fix anything it will more so ruin it. I can say 100% that if this goes live it will be reverted in a month or two.

Or some other buff/ nerf will be made. I don't think Blizz likes mass casters to be an option in general. We had the HT KA nerf, the EMP nerf and now Snipe.

Something will have to be done about the BL infestor deathball, so maybe an infestor nerf vs air or something.


To be fair, the snipe nerf is almost as bad as the time when they wanted to make Fungal not work against air units.
But this time, everyone agreed it was too much of a nerf.

Here, every zerg is okay with getting a huge advantage in lategame TvZ where they don't really need one. :/


Both of this changes are bad by themselves i think, but together, who knows? You couldn't just mass Ghost to be safe against everything Zerg, but you can go without over producing Viking in the fear of FG.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Cirqueenflex
Profile Joined October 2010
499 Posts
February 11 2012 12:26 GMT
#2700
On February 11 2012 21:20 Zurles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 21:17 Zeetox wrote:

Terran has only ~35% win ratio in games over 20 minutes long, yet Blizzard decides to nerf the best Terran late game unit. I don't think it is all right, maybe they should think about making it available much later, like Ghost Academy only after Fusion Core? I think, that right now the only problem with Ghost is it's ability to decimate everything in early 1-base pushes with Ghosts and Marines vs Terran and Protoss.



Hilarious, did you consider the fact they have a 35% win rate in games over 20 minutes long is because in the majority of those games were over MANY minutes before but Terrans can hold on to lost games for a very long time?

because that's obviously why.


exactly what i thought. Take 5 zerg vs 2 base terran as an example, and zerg still cannot win until they get a ton of brood lords. Imagine terran could only kill zerg when they get 4-6 bases and mass battlecruiser. That's the usual scenario for zergs to win vs turtling terran.
Give a man a fire, you keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
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