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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 20:25 Jumonji wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:15 antilyon wrote:On February 11 2012 20:05 Sqq wrote:
I see all these Terrans whining. And I'm trying to figure out, what exactly are they complaining about ? The fact that ghosts where so strong again t3 (yes thats tier 3, the 'best of the best' zerg has to offer) that making them where almost pointless. Now they have to add a few more ghosts or have more energy before raining down hell. Can't believe Terran players think it was ok for a unit to totally smash the late game units Zerg has. Did you ever saw how corruptors, a tier 2 unit smash a battlecruiser? Yes, that's tier 3, best of the best terran has to offer. With 20 damage, snipe doesn't worth the required apm anymore and has almost no place outside of sniping casters. And this is just a lazy bad fix. I agree to the fact they were too strong but give a -10 or 15 against massive and they'll still be useful but just not so strong. It's sad that blizzard is making it even more one dimensional: "If X make Y I'll counter with Z and Z only." That phrase about making right houses to construct the right robots seem so convenient now. Corruptor hard counter ONE unit (BC). Sqq point the fact that ONE terran unit (Ghost) hard counter THREE zerg unit way too easily (T2.5 and t3/t3). Nobody want to see rock paper scissor but it was just stupid to see king of ground and king of air raped by the same unit. Beside that, i don't understand the phoenix buff: what the point making an unit with so many range that you just can't hit her? (even with corruptor). No micro here or anything like it.. Love the patch anyway sound good, just waiting for a new patch with a slight buff to zerg drop and nydus strats.
Fine, but why can't I have a decent tier 3 army too?
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On February 11 2012 20:23 Dariusz wrote:
Snipe damage changed from 45 to 25 +25 Psionic
Direct nerf to MASS ghost. We'll have to see how the numbers work out in field. You can 2 snipe infestors now, down from 3 i think and it's fine considering it was 3 only because of regen and EMP radius nerf made if harder to emp infestors than templars. Change looks good, we'll see how it works out.
Oh man. What is the deal if u now can 2 hit infestor ? The main problem on combat is infestor are behind army, so u cant just walk into battlefield and ez kill infestor. Infestor come after roaches are fighting and this simple way infestor cant be target, bcuz theu are behind of great wall off roaches.
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On February 11 2012 20:31 giorgio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:23 Dariusz wrote:
Snipe damage changed from 45 to 25 +25 Psionic
Direct nerf to MASS ghost. We'll have to see how the numbers work out in field. You can 2 snipe infestors now, down from 3 i think and it's fine considering it was 3 only because of regen and EMP radius nerf made if harder to emp infestors than templars. Change looks good, we'll see how it works out.
Oh man. What is the deal if u now can 2 hit infestor ? The main problem on combat is infestor are behind army, so u cant just walk into battlefield and ez kill infestor. Infestor come after roaches are fighting and this simple way infestor cant be target, bcuz theu are behind of great wall off roaches.
Cloak, medivac drops, flanking, etc. Don't think in such an enclosed box.
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I think Terran players need to just approach this at a slightly different perspective.
You can now snipe infestors in 2 shots, so just snipe them and use vikings to clean up shop? I'm sure theres a lot more to it than that, but on paper it seems good..
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8Wfcc.png)
No just no.
35% winrate lategame is HORRIBLE. I don't care if the matchup is 50%.
65% earlygame is to much and 35% is to little. It's like blizzard is looking in to the overall stats instead of the games themselves the snipe nerf will make this even worse. Why not give Terran a lategame buff and Zerg an early game buff?
NOTE: You have to click on the picture to see the TvZ stats.
Ohh and the 20 minute being balanced means that Marine Medivac Siege tank is equal to Muta Bane Ling. Soo buffs musn't include this units (obviously)
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On February 11 2012 20:27 Masq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:19 multiversed wrote:
it sounds like it's 2012 up in here. people be all over-reacting without thinking. they come up with all this defeatist crap and look like weak little betas. lemme give you a quick man lesson.
this patch will not change the matchup short of making TvZ less of a steamroll in the hands of a skilled terran who actually used ghost in the way in which they were intended to be used.
what you are doing right now is making an excuse for losing before you even start to play. it's embarrassing and you look ridiculous. i'd be more concerned with TvP to be honest, not that i play either of those races but i just don't think very many of you have much of any idea about which you speak.
respectfully, multi v esq.
now man the fuck up and we will welcome you back to reality. Really?
don't be angry. you aren't contributing. i reluctantly play both, even if i don't have any respect for people who main them. specifically emotional canadians. if it makes you feel any better? i guess.
no... i don't care.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On February 11 2012 20:29 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:22 FallDownMarigold wrote:On February 11 2012 19:41 S_SienZ wrote:On February 11 2012 19:38 RRjr wrote:
The worry about ultralisk tech switches I also don't get, seeing how Terran can easily scan to anticipate the switch and build tanks and marauders... two units who are still very efficient at dealing with Ultras. Yeah it's not like the Zerg can't afford to build an Ultralisk Cavern AND a Greater Spire at the same time right? Also, it's not like Warpgates / Terran production where it needs to be slowly accumulated, and scoutable before it gets out of hand. Zergs can literally sac a BL based army and insta remax on Ultras. How you gonna scout that? lol. Don't pretend it's easy to max on BL then remax ultra. The eco it takes to do that means u wont see that happen, ever, say on a map like Shakuras. Maybe Terminus/Tal Darim you might get a situation where a Z can remax with that switch, but the thing youre complaining about isnt a huge concern. How often do you let you Z opponent get to max with ~3k/3k in the bank with 5/6 base? dont let that happen lol The way you put it, makes it look more like a map problem to be honest. When was Shakuras EVER considered to not be Terran favoured in the match up? And Mvp has allowed his opponents to get a huge bank many many times.
didn't pick shakuras bc it's T favored. Picked it because of the # of bases you typically see. Fact of the matter is, you cant support a full BL -> Ultra switch unless you're on 5-6 bases. End of story. If you're saying you're having a tough time beating 6base+ zerg, TOUGH. 6base protoss is also difficult. Guess what? 6base T is pretty strong too. In fact, 3 base T (+gold) is considered OP on many maps. So, yeah, maybe I was making it a map issue. What's wrong with that?
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Just when terran were starting to find snipe useful vs zealots :/
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So what iv taken from this patch is a few things in theory meta game switch
Terran : never mule on gold patch, get an amount of ghost 4-5 like protoss get ht, with maybe raven tech and viking (sky terran like some like to call it, u should have practice from tvt) vs broodlord tech
Zerg : if you go muta tech vs protoss expect potential motherships now making neural parasite potentially once again a more used upgrade
Protoss: zealot charge once again more effective now terran ghost snipe isn't as strong, pvz a more direct path goal oriented to mothership if zerg provokes range upgrade (if u go that route should get +1 air damage as no point in going that tech and wasting it)
either way cool updates on what i thought was already a balanced game hopefully it opens new strats up!
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On February 11 2012 20:35 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:29 S_SienZ wrote:On February 11 2012 20:22 FallDownMarigold wrote:On February 11 2012 19:41 S_SienZ wrote:On February 11 2012 19:38 RRjr wrote:
The worry about ultralisk tech switches I also don't get, seeing how Terran can easily scan to anticipate the switch and build tanks and marauders... two units who are still very efficient at dealing with Ultras. Yeah it's not like the Zerg can't afford to build an Ultralisk Cavern AND a Greater Spire at the same time right? Also, it's not like Warpgates / Terran production where it needs to be slowly accumulated, and scoutable before it gets out of hand. Zergs can literally sac a BL based army and insta remax on Ultras. How you gonna scout that? lol. Don't pretend it's easy to max on BL then remax ultra. The eco it takes to do that means u wont see that happen, ever, say on a map like Shakuras. Maybe Terminus/Tal Darim you might get a situation where a Z can remax with that switch, but the thing youre complaining about isnt a huge concern. How often do you let you Z opponent get to max with ~3k/3k in the bank with 5/6 base? dont let that happen lol The way you put it, makes it look more like a map problem to be honest. When was Shakuras EVER considered to not be Terran favoured in the match up? And Mvp has allowed his opponents to get a huge bank many many times. didn't pick shakuras bc it's T favored. Picked it because of the # of bases you typically see. Fact of the matter is, you cant support a full BL -> Ultra switch unless you're on 5-6 bases. End of story. If you're saying you're having a tough time beating 6base+ zerg, TOUGH. 6base protoss is also difficult. Guess what? 6base T is pretty strong too. In fact, 3 base T (+gold) is considered OP on many maps. So, yeah, maybe I was making it a map issue. What's wrong with that?
It's somewhat amusing that you imply that taking 5-6 bases as zerg is as difficult as taking 5-6 bases as T or P.
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On February 11 2012 20:34 thezanursic wrote:No just no. 35% winrate lategame is HORRIBLE. I don't care if the matchup is 50%. 65% earlygame is to much and 35% is to little. It's like blizzard is looking in to the overall stats instead of the games themselves the snipe nerf will make this even worse. Why not give Terran a lategame buff and Zerg an early game buff? NOTE: You have to click on the picture to see the TvZ stats. Ohh and the 20 minute being balanced means that Marine Medivac Siege tank is equal to Muta Bane Ling. Soo buffs musn't include this units (obviously)
Totally agree.
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Listen terrans, your raven is your CASTER and your ghost is your ANTI-CASTER. You guys should be happy, no other race really has that (maybe except feedback to some extent, but you cant really mass that).
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On February 11 2012 20:39 Asshat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:35 FallDownMarigold wrote:On February 11 2012 20:29 S_SienZ wrote:On February 11 2012 20:22 FallDownMarigold wrote:On February 11 2012 19:41 S_SienZ wrote:On February 11 2012 19:38 RRjr wrote:
The worry about ultralisk tech switches I also don't get, seeing how Terran can easily scan to anticipate the switch and build tanks and marauders... two units who are still very efficient at dealing with Ultras. Yeah it's not like the Zerg can't afford to build an Ultralisk Cavern AND a Greater Spire at the same time right? Also, it's not like Warpgates / Terran production where it needs to be slowly accumulated, and scoutable before it gets out of hand. Zergs can literally sac a BL based army and insta remax on Ultras. How you gonna scout that? lol. Don't pretend it's easy to max on BL then remax ultra. The eco it takes to do that means u wont see that happen, ever, say on a map like Shakuras. Maybe Terminus/Tal Darim you might get a situation where a Z can remax with that switch, but the thing youre complaining about isnt a huge concern. How often do you let you Z opponent get to max with ~3k/3k in the bank with 5/6 base? dont let that happen lol The way you put it, makes it look more like a map problem to be honest. When was Shakuras EVER considered to not be Terran favoured in the match up? And Mvp has allowed his opponents to get a huge bank many many times. didn't pick shakuras bc it's T favored. Picked it because of the # of bases you typically see. Fact of the matter is, you cant support a full BL -> Ultra switch unless you're on 5-6 bases. End of story. If you're saying you're having a tough time beating 6base+ zerg, TOUGH. 6base protoss is also difficult. Guess what? 6base T is pretty strong too. In fact, 3 base T (+gold) is considered OP on many maps. So, yeah, maybe I was making it a map issue. What's wrong with that? It's somewhat amusing that you imply that taking 5-6 bases as zerg is as difficult as taking 5-6 bases as T or P.
It's somewhat amusing that he has a problem with 6base Z being strong. I have a problem with 3 base P being strong. /rant
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On February 11 2012 20:36 Willzzz wrote:
Just when terran were starting to find snipe useful vs zealots :/
At 30+20 to light it would make it more decent against those kind of units, Ghosts already have emp as an anti-caster spell anyway. 30+20 to light would also make it 3-shot zealots instead of 4 and it would make more sense than an anti-psionic snipe.
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On February 11 2012 20:39 Cdtf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:34 thezanursic wrote:No just no. 35% winrate lategame is HORRIBLE. I don't care if the matchup is 50%. 65% earlygame is to much and 35% is to little. It's like blizzard is looking in to the overall stats instead of the games themselves the snipe nerf will make this even worse. Why not give Terran a lategame buff and Zerg an early game buff? NOTE: You have to click on the picture to see the TvZ stats. Ohh and the 20 minute being balanced means that Marine Medivac Siege tank is equal to Muta Bane Ling. Soo buffs musn't include this units (obviously) Totally agree.
It's sad we have to take this to the Bnet forums or we will get this to live.
I don't really know what early builds zerg lose to. I mean for instance if 2 raxx is a big problem make the hatchery spread creep before it's built etc etc why do we need such direct nerfs to our game.
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Great changes overall. Only one downside is why did they need 2 years to realise mule on gold gives terran an unfair advantage...
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i feel like blizzard kind of fucked up on terrans in the sense u debuff ghost u should have buffed raven's in the sense of lower cost in upgrades in either energy or hunterseeker
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On February 11 2012 20:41 QNdie wrote:
Listen terrans, your raven is your CASTER and your ghost is your ANTI-CASTER. You guys should be happy, no other race really has that (maybe except feedback to some extent, but you cant really mass that).
HT's are caster and anti-caster in one unit, why not ghost too?
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On February 11 2012 20:44 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:41 QNdie wrote:
Listen terrans, your raven is your CASTER and your ghost is your ANTI-CASTER. You guys should be happy, no other race really has that (maybe except feedback to some extent, but you cant really mass that). HT's are caster and anti-caster in one unit, why not ghost too?
ghost remove so much damage from protoss when they emp shields its not even funny the amount of damage emp causes compare to storms~
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On February 11 2012 20:43 nt-rAven wrote:
i feel like blizzard kind of fucked up on terrans in the sense u debuff ghost u should have buffed raven's in the sense of lower cost in upgrades in either energy or hunterseeker
This is a preview for the PTR. Not the final patch.
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EPT
