|
Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 20:35 multiversed wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:27 Masq wrote:On February 11 2012 20:19 multiversed wrote:
it sounds like it's 2012 up in here. people be all over-reacting without thinking. they come up with all this defeatist crap and look like weak little betas. lemme give you a quick man lesson.
this patch will not change the matchup short of making TvZ less of a steamroll in the hands of a skilled terran who actually used ghost in the way in which they were intended to be used.
what you are doing right now is making an excuse for losing before you even start to play. it's embarrassing and you look ridiculous. i'd be more concerned with TvP to be honest, not that i play either of those races but i just don't think very many of you have much of any idea about which you speak.
respectfully, multi v esq.
now man the fuck up and we will welcome you back to reality. Really? don't be angry. you aren't contributing. i reluctantly play both, even if i don't have any respect for people who main them. specifically emotional canadians. if it makes you feel any better? i guess. no... i don't care.
are you that insecure that you have to come online and insult others as betas and your other 4chan crap because they play a specific race in sc2? or you're just trolling, who knows.
so you first don't play either of those races, now you relucantly play both, whats next? youre mvp?
|
On February 11 2012 20:34 thezanursic wrote:+ Show Spoiler +No just no. 35% winrate lategame is HORRIBLE. I don't care if the matchup is 50%. 65% earlygame is to much and 35% is to little. It's like blizzard is looking in to the overall stats instead of the games themselves the snipe nerf will make this even worse. Why not give Terran a lategame buff and Zerg an early game buff? NOTE: You have to click on the picture to see the TvZ stats. Ohh and the 20 minute being balanced means that Marine Medivac Siege tank is equal to Muta Bane Ling. Soo buffs musn't include this units (obviously)
I agree with you, but a simple patch can't fix a flawed game design. To do major changes in ZvT early, mid, or late game we need new units, game mechanics, etc.
|
On February 11 2012 20:29 Cdtf wrote:Seriously, I feel so sad about it  I love to play Terran, but now I can't afford to pass the 12 minutes mark in both TvP and TvZ. No T3 anymore for us. At least, buff the BC I think I'm gonna switch. Let's see, what is the worst mirror? PvP or ZvZ? And Blizzard saying they are worrying about the low win ratio of low leagues Terrans. LOL.
Having the most efficient unit does that to a race. Since when microed perfectly marines just win, the game needs to be balanced around that fact or it would fail as an esport, making the race much harder for low level players.
Same happened to BW terran more or less.
|
On February 11 2012 20:43 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:39 Cdtf wrote:On February 11 2012 20:34 thezanursic wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8Wfcc.png) No just no. 35% winrate lategame is HORRIBLE. I don't care if the matchup is 50%. 65% earlygame is to much and 35% is to little. It's like blizzard is looking in to the overall stats instead of the games themselves the snipe nerf will make this even worse. Why not give Terran a lategame buff and Zerg an early game buff? NOTE: You have to click on the picture to see the TvZ stats. Ohh and the 20 minute being balanced means that Marine Medivac Siege tank is equal to Muta Bane Ling. Soo buffs musn't include this units (obviously) Totally agree. It's sad we have to take this to the Bnet forums or we will get this to live. I don't really know what early builds zerg lose to. I mean for instance if 2 raxx is a big problem make the hatchery spread creep before it's built etc etc why do we need such direct nerfs to our game.
Yup. Bunker salvage too is kinda OP in both Matchups. I remember of a pro game on Shakuras Plateau with a bunker wall in order to prevent zerglings to defend the B3. Completelly free for the Terran.
But as someone just said, it's just a PTR, for now 
|
On February 11 2012 20:45 Masq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:35 multiversed wrote:On February 11 2012 20:27 Masq wrote:On February 11 2012 20:19 multiversed wrote:
it sounds like it's 2012 up in here. people be all over-reacting without thinking. they come up with all this defeatist crap and look like weak little betas. lemme give you a quick man lesson.
this patch will not change the matchup short of making TvZ less of a steamroll in the hands of a skilled terran who actually used ghost in the way in which they were intended to be used.
what you are doing right now is making an excuse for losing before you even start to play. it's embarrassing and you look ridiculous. i'd be more concerned with TvP to be honest, not that i play either of those races but i just don't think very many of you have much of any idea about which you speak.
respectfully, multi v esq.
now man the fuck up and we will welcome you back to reality. Really? don't be angry. you aren't contributing. i reluctantly play both, even if i don't have any respect for people who main them. specifically emotional canadians. if it makes you feel any better? i guess. no... i don't care. are you that insecure that you have to come online and insult others as betas and your other 4chan crap because they play a specific race in sc2? or you're just trolling, who knows. so you first don't play either of those races, now you relucantly play both, whats next? youre mvp?
your problem is that you have no sense of humor and rather than looking at something objectively you are being defensive. it amuses me greatly that people like you both take themselves so seriously, and feel the need to correct others opinions on the internet.
some of us like to stay well informed about all aspects of this game for various reasons. it doesn't mean we identify ourselves as random. others just needs to flex what little they have on the internet when someone says something they don't like.
if you'd like my life story i'd be happy to PM you. again... i'm lying. i don't care about you. you're just butthurt like i was about infestors, the only difference is i didn't waste my time venting on the internet.
or maybe you just used your amazing deductive skills to prove i'm lying anonymously on the internet for massive social gains on this massively used TL account. seeing as how i respect TL's user base so much.
WP. it's almost like starcraft except you won.
|
On February 11 2012 20:20 antilyon wrote:
Because I'm terran I got be ok with a ticking time bomb strapped to my face that will explode if I let the game goes after 20 minutes? Sounds like a legitimate solution.
Yes. Pretty much. That is if you decide to let Zerg expand freely or fail at preventing him from doing so. Enter the land of meaningful decisions and consequences.
And again, its not like Ghosts and Snipe are being removed from the game. They're even better against Infestor / Templar now.
|
On February 11 2012 18:40 R!! wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 18:23 Kyuki wrote:
How can terrans really bitch about the snipe change? It's fucking hilarious... Ghosts are SO freaking powerful and beeing able to counter every single thing thrown at you from zerg with _1_ unit is disturbing. I for one think this was really needed and it's justified.
Let's just look at the ghost for a while. It has the most HP out of all of the offensive casters in the game, not counting Battlecruisers and mamaship. It has NO freaking armor type besides psyonic which makes them very hard to kill (unless you have ghosts yourself).
Ghosts have more DPS than STIMMED marines vs light units... (Suck on that one. Infestors and templar doesnt even have an attack).
Ghosts can become invisibile.
Both of the offensive abilities have longer range than the two other offensive casters for the other two races (infestor and templar).
Now with this change to snipe, the ghosts is still pretty fucking good and can, and should be used regardless if they can just annihilate an entire T3 army within seconds.
I don't get it, ghosts are arguably the most wellrounded unit in the game, and can do so many things very well that a change like this feels more than justified and should probably have been standard to begin with.
This snipe change should just create more dynamic in the TvZ matchup in general, which can't be bad.
Terran complaining about their lategame in general are also narrow minded. The only race that can replace most of their workers for armysupply can't be weak lategame...
In regards to the phoenix change, I really like it, it will also help the unit not just die when fighting with them straight up army vs army because they become a closer and higher prio target.
<3 APM change :D. Feels generally that blizzard has been listening to alot of things and take them into true consideration. I also really like that they put in new maps from the community into the mappool :D.
Good patch, I hope it goes through!
Good job at pointing out irrelevant things without a context, and good luck with your uh-oh mighty invisibility against the cheap as fuck overseers, that now can't be killed, but if you wanna random talk without a context, I'm pretty sure that every terran would trade ghosts for infestors ANY DAY, in fact, you should probably make a pool and see how much we love the "most wellrounded unit in the game", and why don't you give it a try at using them and see how you fucking fail because you don't have MVP's 400 apm, it's a sad thing that we terrans had to first achieve tendonitis to be able to even compete vs zerg air and now even that option has been taken from us, if MVP couldn't win(he didn't even come close to winning) with more than 30 +3 spread out vikings, I don't see how I can do any better
Wow, talk about beeing baised and blinded by crap. Throughout this games life I've seen so many posts like yours, which have been worthless later on because the game and the players playing it changes constantly.
Anyway, I meant only to talk about the ghost to give some perspective, not to take it out of context. The change to snipe doesnt change the fact that it's a very powerful caster with a very wide array of tools, a good defense, and a strong main attack. The unit is very good. Period.
Let's talk about the snipe change some more then, because it seems to me that you think it's impossible to win without having a unit that counters absolutly everything.
Snipe can still kill shit, it just requires more energy and time meaning they're probably still going to be fielded vs BLs. When you're that late into lategame that zerg can actually tech switch freely and have good upgrades (which they need to be remotely useful) you will still have the possbility to have ghosts out to fight infestors and get a strong airarmy (viking/battlecruiser/raven) with marine support. How are you supposed to deal with HSM at all with a infestor brood army when your infestors get EMPed or sniped to hell? Which btw takes 2 snipes instead of three now with this change.
You talk about "have you used the unit?". I have. I've played plenty of terran at around mid masters.
Have you? Have you ever used a Raven lategame TvZ? How many times have you researched Seeker missile?
Terran have the tools, but since alot of the things they have work so well together from the get go, like MMM and ghosts, that is what the players focus on, and when issues arise they complain instead of trying to explore other options. Zerg had this problem for almost a year when it came to handling protoss deathballs - things changed, even with a nerfed infestor.
I guess I just disagree, I think this is a good balance change to the game overall.
|
Edit: not worth it, I shoudn't had write it.
|
i think the point a lot of people are still missing is just how weak terran late game is already.
HT and infestor = soft counter to almost every unit in the game
ghost = soft counter to zerg tier 3 and protoss.
(except after patch 1.4.3 where it will be a pathetic counter to zerg tier 3, although still ESSENTIAL because terran literally has nothing else even remotely useful against it)
raven = soft counter to a handful of units (eg vikings, thors) and decent air harrassment with turrets.
why make the weakest late game race SUBSTANTIALY weaker in both TvZ and TvP? didn't blizzard admit that zealots were too strong in late game TvP, and yet they still make them 75% more stronger against snipe?
|
I guess they overdid it a little on the snipe. Zergs can handle the early presure by terran very well these days en late game will be almost impossible to beat z with the right compo. Still curious to so what the late game is going to look like in ZvT, only on massive would be better imo.
|
On February 11 2012 20:54 antilyon wrote:
Edit: not worth it, I shoudn't had write it.
yes and i do play terran too, vikings and ghost vs collosus and hts, thats how u have to think; not marauders and mariness vs collosus and hts, thats my only tip i can possibly give u that can be constructive~ glhf
|
On February 11 2012 20:54 Kyuki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 18:40 R!! wrote:On February 11 2012 18:23 Kyuki wrote:
How can terrans really bitch about the snipe change? It's fucking hilarious... Ghosts are SO freaking powerful and beeing able to counter every single thing thrown at you from zerg with _1_ unit is disturbing. I for one think this was really needed and it's justified.
Let's just look at the ghost for a while. It has the most HP out of all of the offensive casters in the game, not counting Battlecruisers and mamaship. It has NO freaking armor type besides psyonic which makes them very hard to kill (unless you have ghosts yourself).
Ghosts have more DPS than STIMMED marines vs light units... (Suck on that one. Infestors and templar doesnt even have an attack).
Ghosts can become invisibile.
Both of the offensive abilities have longer range than the two other offensive casters for the other two races (infestor and templar).
Now with this change to snipe, the ghosts is still pretty fucking good and can, and should be used regardless if they can just annihilate an entire T3 army within seconds.
I don't get it, ghosts are arguably the most wellrounded unit in the game, and can do so many things very well that a change like this feels more than justified and should probably have been standard to begin with.
This snipe change should just create more dynamic in the TvZ matchup in general, which can't be bad.
Terran complaining about their lategame in general are also narrow minded. The only race that can replace most of their workers for armysupply can't be weak lategame...
In regards to the phoenix change, I really like it, it will also help the unit not just die when fighting with them straight up army vs army because they become a closer and higher prio target.
<3 APM change :D. Feels generally that blizzard has been listening to alot of things and take them into true consideration. I also really like that they put in new maps from the community into the mappool :D.
Good patch, I hope it goes through!
Good job at pointing out irrelevant things without a context, and good luck with your uh-oh mighty invisibility against the cheap as fuck overseers, that now can't be killed, but if you wanna random talk without a context, I'm pretty sure that every terran would trade ghosts for infestors ANY DAY, in fact, you should probably make a pool and see how much we love the "most wellrounded unit in the game", and why don't you give it a try at using them and see how you fucking fail because you don't have MVP's 400 apm, it's a sad thing that we terrans had to first achieve tendonitis to be able to even compete vs zerg air and now even that option has been taken from us, if MVP couldn't win(he didn't even come close to winning) with more than 30 +3 spread out vikings, I don't see how I can do any better Wow, talk about beeing baised and blinded by crap. Throughout this games life I've seen so many posts like yours, which have been worthless later on because the game and the players playing it changes constantly. Anyway, I meant only to talk about the ghost to give some perspective, not to take it out of context. The change to snipe doesnt change the fact that it's a very powerful caster with a very wide array of tools, a good defense, and a strong main attack. The unit is very good. Period. Let's talk about the snipe change some more then, because it seems to me that you think it's impossible to win without having a unit that counters absolutly everything. Snipe can still kill shit, it just requires more energy and time meaning they're probably still going to be fielded vs BLs. When you're that late into lategame that zerg can actually tech switch freely and have good upgrades (which they need to be remotely useful) you will still have the possbility to have ghosts out to fight infestors and get a strong airarmy (viking/battlecruiser/raven) with marine support. How are you supposed to deal with HSM at all with a infestor brood army when your infestors get EMPed or sniped to hell? Which btw takes 2 snipes instead of three now with this change. You talk about "have you used the unit?". I have. I've played plenty of terran at around mid masters. Have you? Have you ever used a Raven lategame TvZ? How many times have you researched Seeker missile? Terran have the tools, but since alot of the things they have work so well together from the get go, like MMM and ghosts, that is what the players focus on, and when issues arise they complain instead of trying to explore other options. Zerg had this problem for almost a year when it came to handling protoss deathballs - things changed, even with a nerfed infestor. I guess I just disagree, I think this is a good balance change to the game overall.
It requires more time and APM that you don't have if you got do any other thing meanwhile. Raven got 6 range, 6! If I can get easily fungaled with viking the outcome with ravens isn't any brighter. Yes, you can use HSM but you would be relying on your oponent not fuck things up.
|
On February 11 2012 20:45 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:34 thezanursic wrote:+ Show Spoiler +No just no. 35% winrate lategame is HORRIBLE. I don't care if the matchup is 50%. 65% earlygame is to much and 35% is to little. It's like blizzard is looking in to the overall stats instead of the games themselves the snipe nerf will make this even worse. Why not give Terran a lategame buff and Zerg an early game buff? NOTE: You have to click on the picture to see the TvZ stats. Ohh and the 20 minute being balanced means that Marine Medivac Siege tank is equal to Muta Bane Ling. Soo buffs musn't include this units (obviously) I agree with you, but a simple patch can't fix a flawed game design. To do major changes in ZvT early, mid, or late game we need new units, game mechanics, etc.
I understand that but nerfing snipe in a situation where things can only get worse with a nerf is just retarded. If they can't fix it then don't make it worse because to anyone who has minimal knowledge knows that this won't fix anything it will more so ruin it. I can say 100% that if this goes live it will be reverted in a month or two.
|
Why not make Snipe 25 vs Massive and 45 v everything else?
|
On February 11 2012 20:53 multiversed wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:45 Masq wrote:On February 11 2012 20:35 multiversed wrote:On February 11 2012 20:27 Masq wrote:On February 11 2012 20:19 multiversed wrote:
it sounds like it's 2012 up in here. people be all over-reacting without thinking. they come up with all this defeatist crap and look like weak little betas. lemme give you a quick man lesson.
this patch will not change the matchup short of making TvZ less of a steamroll in the hands of a skilled terran who actually used ghost in the way in which they were intended to be used.
what you are doing right now is making an excuse for losing before you even start to play. it's embarrassing and you look ridiculous. i'd be more concerned with TvP to be honest, not that i play either of those races but i just don't think very many of you have much of any idea about which you speak.
respectfully, multi v esq.
now man the fuck up and we will welcome you back to reality. Really? don't be angry. you aren't contributing. i reluctantly play both, even if i don't have any respect for people who main them. specifically emotional canadians. if it makes you feel any better? i guess. no... i don't care. are you that insecure that you have to come online and insult others as betas and your other 4chan crap because they play a specific race in sc2? or you're just trolling, who knows. so you first don't play either of those races, now you relucantly play both, whats next? youre mvp? your problem is that you have no sense of humor and rather than looking at something objectively you are being defensive. it amuses me greatly that people like you both take themselves so seriously, and feel the need to correct others opinions on the internet. some of us like to stay well informed about all aspects of this game for various reasons. it doesn't mean we identify ourselves as random. others just needs to flex what little they have on the internet when someone says something they don't like. if you'd like my life story i'd be happy to PM you. again... i'm lying. i don't care about you. you're just butthurt like i was about infestors, the only difference is i didn't waste my time venting on the internet. or maybe you just used your amazing deductive skills to prove i'm lying anonymously on the internet for massive social gains on this massively used TL account. seeing as how i respect TL's user base so much. WP. it's almost like starcraft except you won.
Being objective about what? I also love that you can deduce my sense of humor from typing "Really?".
You're just too alpha for me. I'll stop shitting up this thread, sorry.
|
On February 11 2012 20:25 Jumonji wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:15 antilyon wrote:On February 11 2012 20:05 Sqq wrote:
I see all these Terrans whining. And I'm trying to figure out, what exactly are they complaining about ? The fact that ghosts where so strong again t3 (yes thats tier 3, the 'best of the best' zerg has to offer) that making them where almost pointless. Now they have to add a few more ghosts or have more energy before raining down hell. Can't believe Terran players think it was ok for a unit to totally smash the late game units Zerg has. Did you ever saw how corruptors, a tier 2 unit smash a battlecruiser? Yes, that's tier 3, best of the best terran has to offer. With 20 damage, snipe doesn't worth the required apm anymore and has almost no place outside of sniping casters. And this is just a lazy bad fix. I agree to the fact they were too strong but give a -10 or 15 against massive and they'll still be useful but just not so strong. It's sad that blizzard is making it even more one dimensional: "If X make Y I'll counter with Z and Z only." That phrase about making right houses to construct the right robots seem so convenient now. Corruptor hard counter ONE unit (BC). Sqq point the fact that ONE terran unit (Ghost) hard counter THREE zerg unit way too easily (T2.5 and t3/t3). Nobody want to see rock paper scissor but it was just stupid to see king of ground and king of air raped by the same unit. Beside that, i don't understand the phoenix buff: what the point making an unit with so many range that you just can't hit her? (even with corruptor). No micro here or anything like it.. Love the patch anyway sound good, just waiting for a new patch with a slight buff to zerg drop and nydus strats.
I don't get where u are going with this. So zerg should just be able to faceroll the terran once they get hive tech? Ghosts do not even own the zerg T3, zerg trades decent, just fighting the ghosts head on. Then they can remax much easier than terran with a whole new composition, like lower tier units to deal with mass ghosts (assuming that's the problem).
Ghosts are not even that good vs. ultras. I bet u guys have watched like 3 MVP games and concluded that ghosts are OP vs. ultras. Where MVP is already ahead and has better position. U want marauders vs. ultras as they're more cost effective.
|
On February 11 2012 20:49 Cdtf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:43 thezanursic wrote:On February 11 2012 20:39 Cdtf wrote:On February 11 2012 20:34 thezanursic wrote:No just no. 35% winrate lategame is HORRIBLE. I don't care if the matchup is 50%. 65% earlygame is to much and 35% is to little. It's like blizzard is looking in to the overall stats instead of the games themselves the snipe nerf will make this even worse. Why not give Terran a lategame buff and Zerg an early game buff? NOTE: You have to click on the picture to see the TvZ stats. Ohh and the 20 minute being balanced means that Marine Medivac Siege tank is equal to Muta Bane Ling. Soo buffs musn't include this units (obviously) Totally agree. It's sad we have to take this to the Bnet forums or we will get this to live. I don't really know what early builds zerg lose to. I mean for instance if 2 raxx is a big problem make the hatchery spread creep before it's built etc etc why do we need such direct nerfs to our game. Yup. Bunker salvage too is kinda OP in both Matchups. I remember of a pro game on Shakuras Plateau with a bunker wall in order to prevent zerglings to defend the B3. Completelly free for the Terran. But as someone just said, it's just a PTR, for now
It is, but what I am afraid of is that this is supposed to launch with the new season I hope not, but it does seem like a good time to release a patch no extra server down time. I think it should be obvious the nerf is only ruining the game. TvZ being only ghosts MIGHT be boring, but it is how it is if the win rate was above 50% in late game I would understand.
Blizzard should focus on making zerg better early game (Better scouting?) and terran stronger late game (Buffing vikings against biological to not make it more powerful against P and T?).
|
On February 11 2012 20:59 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:54 Kyuki wrote:On February 11 2012 18:40 R!! wrote:On February 11 2012 18:23 Kyuki wrote:
How can terrans really bitch about the snipe change? It's fucking hilarious... Ghosts are SO freaking powerful and beeing able to counter every single thing thrown at you from zerg with _1_ unit is disturbing. I for one think this was really needed and it's justified.
Let's just look at the ghost for a while. It has the most HP out of all of the offensive casters in the game, not counting Battlecruisers and mamaship. It has NO freaking armor type besides psyonic which makes them very hard to kill (unless you have ghosts yourself).
Ghosts have more DPS than STIMMED marines vs light units... (Suck on that one. Infestors and templar doesnt even have an attack).
Ghosts can become invisibile.
Both of the offensive abilities have longer range than the two other offensive casters for the other two races (infestor and templar).
Now with this change to snipe, the ghosts is still pretty fucking good and can, and should be used regardless if they can just annihilate an entire T3 army within seconds.
I don't get it, ghosts are arguably the most wellrounded unit in the game, and can do so many things very well that a change like this feels more than justified and should probably have been standard to begin with.
This snipe change should just create more dynamic in the TvZ matchup in general, which can't be bad.
Terran complaining about their lategame in general are also narrow minded. The only race that can replace most of their workers for armysupply can't be weak lategame...
In regards to the phoenix change, I really like it, it will also help the unit not just die when fighting with them straight up army vs army because they become a closer and higher prio target.
<3 APM change :D. Feels generally that blizzard has been listening to alot of things and take them into true consideration. I also really like that they put in new maps from the community into the mappool :D.
Good patch, I hope it goes through!
Good job at pointing out irrelevant things without a context, and good luck with your uh-oh mighty invisibility against the cheap as fuck overseers, that now can't be killed, but if you wanna random talk without a context, I'm pretty sure that every terran would trade ghosts for infestors ANY DAY, in fact, you should probably make a pool and see how much we love the "most wellrounded unit in the game", and why don't you give it a try at using them and see how you fucking fail because you don't have MVP's 400 apm, it's a sad thing that we terrans had to first achieve tendonitis to be able to even compete vs zerg air and now even that option has been taken from us, if MVP couldn't win(he didn't even come close to winning) with more than 30 +3 spread out vikings, I don't see how I can do any better Wow, talk about beeing baised and blinded by crap. Throughout this games life I've seen so many posts like yours, which have been worthless later on because the game and the players playing it changes constantly. Anyway, I meant only to talk about the ghost to give some perspective, not to take it out of context. The change to snipe doesnt change the fact that it's a very powerful caster with a very wide array of tools, a good defense, and a strong main attack. The unit is very good. Period. Let's talk about the snipe change some more then, because it seems to me that you think it's impossible to win without having a unit that counters absolutly everything. Snipe can still kill shit, it just requires more energy and time meaning they're probably still going to be fielded vs BLs. When you're that late into lategame that zerg can actually tech switch freely and have good upgrades (which they need to be remotely useful) you will still have the possbility to have ghosts out to fight infestors and get a strong airarmy (viking/battlecruiser/raven) with marine support. How are you supposed to deal with HSM at all with a infestor brood army when your infestors get EMPed or sniped to hell? Which btw takes 2 snipes instead of three now with this change. You talk about "have you used the unit?". I have. I've played plenty of terran at around mid masters. Have you? Have you ever used a Raven lategame TvZ? How many times have you researched Seeker missile? Terran have the tools, but since alot of the things they have work so well together from the get go, like MMM and ghosts, that is what the players focus on, and when issues arise they complain instead of trying to explore other options. Zerg had this problem for almost a year when it came to handling protoss deathballs - things changed, even with a nerfed infestor. I guess I just disagree, I think this is a good balance change to the game overall. It requires more time and APM that you don't have if you got do any other thing meanwhile. Raven got 6 range, 6! If I can get easily fungaled with viking the outcome with ravens isn't any brighter. Yes, you can use HSM but you would be relying on your oponent not fuck things up.
You're basically saying: "I've never tried, and therefor it doesnt work!". You always rely on your opponent fucking up, you force mistakes all the time out of your opponent, and the player that makes the least mistakes usually end up ontop. You can force mistakes or you can create openings to make the short range of the HSM useful anyway. Like using the ghost maybe?
Look, I'm not saying it's fucking easy. It's hard on both sides and that's how it works. On the flipside, if you snipe/EMP his infestors, your HSMs will wreck havoc. But I guess that's not possible either because it's so easy to make an overseer and the ghosts will never get close to the infestors. I guess it's also impossible to snipe overseers T_T.
I only see people trying to convey others that what they do atm, is the only thing that can be done, and therefor everything else should be ruled out. That's shortsighted and doesnt lead to much progress.
|
On February 11 2012 21:05 Kyuki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 20:59 antilyon wrote:On February 11 2012 20:54 Kyuki wrote:On February 11 2012 18:40 R!! wrote:On February 11 2012 18:23 Kyuki wrote:
How can terrans really bitch about the snipe change? It's fucking hilarious... Ghosts are SO freaking powerful and beeing able to counter every single thing thrown at you from zerg with _1_ unit is disturbing. I for one think this was really needed and it's justified.
Let's just look at the ghost for a while. It has the most HP out of all of the offensive casters in the game, not counting Battlecruisers and mamaship. It has NO freaking armor type besides psyonic which makes them very hard to kill (unless you have ghosts yourself).
Ghosts have more DPS than STIMMED marines vs light units... (Suck on that one. Infestors and templar doesnt even have an attack).
Ghosts can become invisibile.
Both of the offensive abilities have longer range than the two other offensive casters for the other two races (infestor and templar).
Now with this change to snipe, the ghosts is still pretty fucking good and can, and should be used regardless if they can just annihilate an entire T3 army within seconds.
I don't get it, ghosts are arguably the most wellrounded unit in the game, and can do so many things very well that a change like this feels more than justified and should probably have been standard to begin with.
This snipe change should just create more dynamic in the TvZ matchup in general, which can't be bad.
Terran complaining about their lategame in general are also narrow minded. The only race that can replace most of their workers for armysupply can't be weak lategame...
In regards to the phoenix change, I really like it, it will also help the unit not just die when fighting with them straight up army vs army because they become a closer and higher prio target.
<3 APM change :D. Feels generally that blizzard has been listening to alot of things and take them into true consideration. I also really like that they put in new maps from the community into the mappool :D.
Good patch, I hope it goes through!
Good job at pointing out irrelevant things without a context, and good luck with your uh-oh mighty invisibility against the cheap as fuck overseers, that now can't be killed, but if you wanna random talk without a context, I'm pretty sure that every terran would trade ghosts for infestors ANY DAY, in fact, you should probably make a pool and see how much we love the "most wellrounded unit in the game", and why don't you give it a try at using them and see how you fucking fail because you don't have MVP's 400 apm, it's a sad thing that we terrans had to first achieve tendonitis to be able to even compete vs zerg air and now even that option has been taken from us, if MVP couldn't win(he didn't even come close to winning) with more than 30 +3 spread out vikings, I don't see how I can do any better Wow, talk about beeing baised and blinded by crap. Throughout this games life I've seen so many posts like yours, which have been worthless later on because the game and the players playing it changes constantly. Anyway, I meant only to talk about the ghost to give some perspective, not to take it out of context. The change to snipe doesnt change the fact that it's a very powerful caster with a very wide array of tools, a good defense, and a strong main attack. The unit is very good. Period. Let's talk about the snipe change some more then, because it seems to me that you think it's impossible to win without having a unit that counters absolutly everything. Snipe can still kill shit, it just requires more energy and time meaning they're probably still going to be fielded vs BLs. When you're that late into lategame that zerg can actually tech switch freely and have good upgrades (which they need to be remotely useful) you will still have the possbility to have ghosts out to fight infestors and get a strong airarmy (viking/battlecruiser/raven) with marine support. How are you supposed to deal with HSM at all with a infestor brood army when your infestors get EMPed or sniped to hell? Which btw takes 2 snipes instead of three now with this change. You talk about "have you used the unit?". I have. I've played plenty of terran at around mid masters. Have you? Have you ever used a Raven lategame TvZ? How many times have you researched Seeker missile? Terran have the tools, but since alot of the things they have work so well together from the get go, like MMM and ghosts, that is what the players focus on, and when issues arise they complain instead of trying to explore other options. Zerg had this problem for almost a year when it came to handling protoss deathballs - things changed, even with a nerfed infestor. I guess I just disagree, I think this is a good balance change to the game overall. It requires more time and APM that you don't have if you got do any other thing meanwhile. Raven got 6 range, 6! If I can get easily fungaled with viking the outcome with ravens isn't any brighter. Yes, you can use HSM but you would be relying on your oponent not fuck things up. You're basically saying: "I've never tried, and therefor it doesnt work!". You always rely on your opponent fucking up, you force mistakes all the time out of your opponent, and the player that makes the least mistakes usually end up ontop. You can force mistakes or you can create openings to make the short range of the HSM useful anyway. Like using the ghost maybe? Look, I'm not saying it's fucking easy. It's hard on both sides and that's how it works. On the flipside, if you snipe/EMP his infestors, your HSMs will wreck havoc. But I guess that's not possible either because it's so easy to make an overseer and the ghosts will never get close to the infestors. I guess it's also impossible to snipe overseers T_T. I only see people trying to convey others that what they do atm, is the only thing that can be done, and therefor everything else should be ruled out. That's shortsighted and doesnt lead to much progress.
With 25 damage snipes you bet it is hard to snipe overseers.
edit: My whole point is: I don't like to play against a time bomb where if I don't pressure all game long I can't win. I want to lay back, play defensive on my 5-6 bases but terrans are too fragile after a 200/200 army collision on this scenario, it's really hard to hold 15 zealots warped in your face instantly or a whole new Z army one minute later with scattered Barracks and Factories where I need at least 3 production cycles.
|
I don't get where u are going with this. So zerg should just be able to faceroll the terran once they get hive tech? Ghosts do not even own the zerg T3, zerg trades decent, just fighting the ghosts head on. Then they can remax much easier than terran with a whole new composition, like lower tier units to deal with mass ghosts (assuming that's the problem).
Ghosts are not even that good vs. ultras. I bet u guys have watched like 3 MVP games and concluded that ghosts are OP vs. ultras. Where MVP is already ahead and has better position. U want marauders vs. ultras as they're more cost effective.
What the point remaxing with a new composition? Terran have the most versatiles units of the game this is not impossible to handle. Just watch bomber macro,it's just horrible how fast he remax his army. I don't say everyone can do that, but this is possible as a terran.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
