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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 13:20 alexanderzero wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:11 decerto wrote:
Cant see how the phoenix change will help, the difference the range will make seems negligible to how quickly 20-30 mutas can kill a pack of phoenix Well Phoenixes as they are currently move faster than mutas, have longer range than mutas, and can shoot while moving. The problem is that nobody is fast enough to micro them against mutas effectively because the mutas just run away then turn around randomly to fight again. This change will give players a little more time to react to this since the range will be longer.
They accelerate much slow than mutas, which is why it is hard to respond to muta attacks since the mutas hit full speed much sooner. It also factors into micro wars, which I am sure this buff will help out with. But it is very late game.
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On February 11 2012 13:24 Scila wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:23 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2012 13:17 MaNaVoId wrote:On February 11 2012 13:11 Ziggitz wrote:On February 11 2012 12:58 DemigodcelpH wrote:On February 11 2012 12:40 Xorphene wrote:On February 11 2012 03:11 xTrim wrote:
overmake vikings = lose to f**king ultra switch... god i hate this, why do i keep playing? Stop feeling so nerfed, zerg's have suffered this forever. Overmake corruptors in ZvP and lose to gateway remax. Stop feeling so special, Terrans moaning about infestors vs vikings need to realise they simply need to split their marines. This is a fantastic patch if you play Zerg. Your bias is showing. Enjoy your free 70-80% ZvT late game winrate as evidenced by the solid statistics in Jormundr's chart. This has been discussed to death already but you appear to be a little slow so I'll repeat it for you. A higher win rate in the late game is NOT evidence that Zerg have an advantage in that period of the game. When Terran gain a big enough advantage they win the game then and there or if they inflicted massive damage but lost most of their army they win it 2 minutes later. When Zerg completely crushes a Terran's two base timing attack and takes a third while getting a 25 worker lead, they win the game 10 minutes later because they lack the tools to win the game right away like Terran does have. In a 20 minute game a Zerg might have taken a decisive lead at the ten minute mark when the Terran botched a timing attack and fell 60 food behind. The earlier in the game you are analyzing the higher the precision with which you can gauge the balance of the match up for that particular moment. As you get into the late game certain patterns skew data and a lot of noise is introduced as players do not reach each stage of the game on equal footing. A significant number of games in ZvT reach the late game with Terran far behind because he made a timing attack that would decide the game earlier on, except instead of the game lasting the same relative length of time depending on who would win, if the Terran wins the game ends almost immediately, if the Zerg wins the game goes on a lot longer. Please stop quoting statistics you don't understand. Thats just your own groundless assumption without any proof to back it up. Trust me, there are many ways for zerg to take out terrans in the early game. Once zergs have an decisive advantage, they can morph a bigillion banelings and steamroll the terran or drop a ton of roaches into the terran's base. The fact that most zerg choose to get more ahead and go into a long game when they win an engagement is that zerg late game is better than terran lategame. Furthermore you are apparently oblivious to the fact that good terrans such as mvp often choose to turtle up and set up for late game instead of ending the game. Therefore whatever you said about terran applies to zergs too. It is pretty much accepted that attacking into a tutling terran is bad. No one needs proof to back that up. I often beat passive terrans by denying their third base and waiting until I get maxed with solid upgrades. That takes a while. Most protoss will play it safe against a terran, rather than try to finish it at the 11 minute mark. People are pointing out that the point where the player loses the game is not the point where the game ends. It differs for each race and terran seem to take the longest to finish off. This likely factors into the terran loss rate late game. Protoss can turtle far better than Terran. It's almost impossible to attack Protoss on 2 bases on some maps like Shakuras.
On several of the newer GSL Maps you can extend that to 3 bases if the Toss knows what he's doing.
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On February 11 2012 13:17 MaNaVoId wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:11 Ziggitz wrote:On February 11 2012 12:58 DemigodcelpH wrote:On February 11 2012 12:40 Xorphene wrote:On February 11 2012 03:11 xTrim wrote:
overmake vikings = lose to f**king ultra switch... god i hate this, why do i keep playing? Stop feeling so nerfed, zerg's have suffered this forever. Overmake corruptors in ZvP and lose to gateway remax. Stop feeling so special, Terrans moaning about infestors vs vikings need to realise they simply need to split their marines. This is a fantastic patch if you play Zerg. Your bias is showing. Enjoy your free 70-80% ZvT late game winrate as evidenced by the solid statistics in Jormundr's chart. This has been discussed to death already but you appear to be a little slow so I'll repeat it for you. A higher win rate in the late game is NOT evidence that Zerg have an advantage in that period of the game. When Terran gain a big enough advantage they win the game then and there or if they inflicted massive damage but lost most of their army they win it 2 minutes later. When Zerg completely crushes a Terran's two base timing attack and takes a third while getting a 25 worker lead, they win the game 10 minutes later because they lack the tools to win the game right away like Terran does have. In a 20 minute game a Zerg might have taken a decisive lead at the ten minute mark when the Terran botched a timing attack and fell 60 food behind. The earlier in the game you are analyzing the higher the precision with which you can gauge the balance of the match up for that particular moment. As you get into the late game certain patterns skew data and a lot of noise is introduced as players do not reach each stage of the game on equal footing. A significant number of games in ZvT reach the late game with Terran far behind because he made a timing attack that would decide the game earlier on, except instead of the game lasting the same relative length of time depending on who would win, if the Terran wins the game ends almost immediately, if the Zerg wins the game goes on a lot longer. Please stop quoting statistics you don't understand. Thats just your own groundless assumption without any proof to back it up. Trust me, there are many ways for zerg to take out terrans in the early game. Once zergs have an decisive advantage, they can morph a bigillion banelings and steamroll the terran or drop a ton of roaches into the terran's base. The fact that most zerg choose to get more ahead and go into a long game when they win an engagement is that zerg late game is better than terran lategame. Furthermore you are apparently oblivious to the fact that good terrans such as mvp often choose to turtle up and set up for late game instead of ending the game. Therefore whatever you said about terran applies to zergs too.
Well, I guess the feeling goes more like this. You as zerg demolish a terran's army. He lifts up his supply depots, builds a few bunkers, and pulls scvs to repair and hopefully lives. Well the attack is happening the terran sent some marines and killed your queen and some drones. This means you are now more even with the terran, and the game is unwon. The only quite reliable killmove is 4-5base BL corrupt Infest
Now consider the opposite. You as terran kill the zergs army. You walk into the zergs main and he dies. If he counters, you are fine due to supply depot wall. Zerg dies.
I also believe when MVP turtles to the lategame it's not because he has an advantage and he can't reliably kill the zerg, it's because it's nearly impossible for the zerg to kill him, and if the zerg tries he can counter drop. Therefore what he said about terran doesn't apply to zerg too.
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As someone who doesn't play that often but watches the game all the time, I like this patch.
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People are overreacting yet again?Rerember when NP was not suppose to work on massive but then Blizz realize that and changed it range from 9 to 7 saying people have to be more careful and tactical and using nice positioning to NP the unit.
Quite a stupid reasoning IMO.NP is effectively dead now almost nvr see it used but what done is done.
Snipe is used way more often then NP and more useful in dealing with BL and Infestor and even Ultras.This nerf is quite big though but Blizzard always tend to either overnerfed or overbuffed a unit to see whether it work out.
Not sure about the phoenix upgrade that give them range of 6 for the fleet beacon.If you are going fleet beacon,you are pretty much commiting to air tech rather than robo or twilight tech unless you are in the very late game. I think they are trying to promote carriers with this but zergs can just build corrupters rather than mutalisks that will just eat carriers for breakfast LOL.
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For TvZ it becomes awfully difficult upgrade wise to compete with zerg tech switches when you double the amount of snipes it takes for the infantry ghost to make killing shots. It is hard enough in equal games where the T is trying to harass and slow down the zerg boom to get your vehicle dmg upgrades up along with infantry and then trying to get maybe 1 air attack upgrade when some broods start coming to help fight that off.
Now zerg will not have to be afraid of the infantry of T during their BL pushes because ghosts will not be cost effective and marines cannot make hits on BL's like ghosts could without dying a horribly inefficient death to infestors that hang out below the BL's. So.... this forces T to fight BL's with thors (lol) or by taking air dominance (will have to happen) which basically tells zerg : force T into mass vikings, fungal the hell out of viking clumps (may as well be insta cast seeker missiles and hits cloakshees too), T now has committed even more to ensure air dominance, 1 swift larva tech switch to ling/ultra (or whatever ground based army they want) and rally them to T production facilities.
So I've complained quite a bit about the reason I believe this is a large blow to T and I will repeat it once more. It takes away our infantry/ground based advantage to potentially put a standstill to the BL push (which helped make smaller viking numbers more potent).
My proposed solution: Put in an upgrade or simply increase the range at which hunter seeker missiles can be fired from and also increase the speed of it's movement! The logic behind my suggestion? Increasing range will not cause the raven to be a complete sacrifice and sitting duck to even the microless AI targeting when casting the ability. Increasing speed so that it WILL catch air zerg will give it a similar application to storm in that is probably guaranteed to hit SOMETHING but the range it's casted from and delayed nature of damage hitting gives your opponent a way to use SKILL to makes it do LESS damage.
Other added benefits: This allows T an option besides massing a single unit type (viking) to deal with air. Massed armored vikings could disintegrate to a couple infestors possibly ending the game right there and we all know that being forced to put all your chances into one aspect of play does not make for a good game in RTS's. This will allow a very delicately balanced air war to proceed involving viking/raven and even banshees since you wont have all starports on reactors which will also be possible because of less needed pop of vikings once you win the air and gives T an air to ground option vs. the Zerg's corruptor/BL/infestor (infestors are being considered in air fights). Talk about actually giving T incentives to air control other than "as long as BL's are gone i can just stim my infantry ftw and snipe everything!"
Basically it should be equally beneficial for both races to own the air or ground. With the unbalanced snipe T only had to really own the ground to win. If these changes go in effect I fear that it will make Z unbalanced in that they will benefit too greatly from their air dominance.
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On February 11 2012 13:28 FakeDeath wrote:
People are overreacting yet again?Rerember when NP was not suppose to work on massive but then Blizz realize that and changed it range from 9 to 7 saying people have to be more careful and tactical and using nice positioning to NP the unit.
Quite a stupid reasoning IMO.NP is effectively dead now almost nvr see it used but what done is done.
holy shit, this reminds me of how I preferred the infestor from beta to the current one. A good NP with a fungal that ensnared for a fuckload instead of being a damage dealing spell caster. Was much better before, gave zerg some flavor. They buffed fungal too much that they nerfed it back to where it was worse than it ever was.
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On February 11 2012 12:44 Bippzy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 12:14 Jormundr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +From : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309042This is taken from a sample size of 102 TvZ matchups Since this was taken from MLG Providence, I will assume that this sample is almost entirely representative of the top 2% of players (masters and grandmasters). This graph provides evidence that ghosts do not 'counter' tier 3 zerg. Considering the whole broodlord infestor vs ghost marine tank viking dance usually starts at or after 20 minutes, why were terrans not winning here? I am pretty sure that snipe efficiency was figured out pretty well this summer (when we first started to see MVP using it profusely, especially against ultralisk comps). So; Question: If ghosts are so strong, why didn't terrans have a positive win-rate after the 20 minute mark? Answer: Ghosts are incredibly expensive, and require tech lab rax instead of reactor rax (important in a marine dominated matchup) Ghosts actually happen to be the most expensive unit per supply in the terran arsenal (I would argue that 2 supply makes them too easy to mass in TvZ, but 3 supply would have too massive of an effect on TvP) For example, to build the scary ball of ghosts that "counters zerg t3" (as I have read over and over again in this thread) I will assume that they mean a ball of: 15 Ghosts 25 ghosts 3000 minerals 5000 minerals 1500 gas 2500 gas 30 supply 50 supply 120 to 200 seconds* 200 to 330 seconds* * note that the first value corresponds to the mad terran player who just happens to have 5 tech lab rax on hand. Second number is for a terran who has 3. 5 tech lab rax would be slightly unusual in a matchup that is marine dominated So without the ghost, what do you suggest to counter broodlord corruptor infestor? m̶a̶r̶i̶n̶e̶s̶ 1 full energy infestor can kill 35 marines, with enough energy left for two infested terrans. OVERPOWERED, I DON'T LIKE IT, COUNTERS TERRAN T1, NEEDS A NERF (etcetera) ̶t̶h̶o̶r̶s̶ 4 broodlords kill 4 micro'd thors with 2 full health broods left v̶i̶k̶i̶n̶g̶s̶ - 8 corruptors kill 8 vikings with 1 corruptor left (no micro, no corruption) b̶a̶t̶t̶l̶e̶c̶r̶u̶i̶s̶e̶r̶ - I tested 4 cruisers (24 supply, 1 arm, 1 leg,) vs 8 corruptors - 1 battlecruiser lives with 57/550 hp. SAVED r̶a̶v̶e̶n̶ - 13 ravens with HSM kill 8 broodlords (if you use 125 energy each) all of these were done with equal upgrades The problem is that broodlord + corruptor + infestor has a ridiculous advantage in the air battle already. corruptor broodlord is better than terran anti air in a straight up fight. Corruptors are also easier to produce en masse (see larvae) which gives them the ability to take momentum in the air battle much more quickly than a terran with 2-3 reactor ports. Also note that zerg air will generally have both armor and attack upgrades, whereas terran air will at best have attack upgrades, because there is no terran air endgame ball that is effective in tvz. TL;DR Without ghosts, terrans have no answer to zerg air superiority because - wait for it - ZERG AIR IS SUPERIOR The game, is supposed, to theoretically last to late game unless if Blah harassment greed all in Blah happens. At late game, it becomes maintaining expos, and army vs army. If the terran army with ghosts rapes zerg eventually, and it can eventually only need scvs for gas, and it can build bases that defend themselves....... If you try to argue just ling bane vs ghosts wellll....PFs and siege tanks don't just walk out of the picture. The answer eventually becomes nothing for a zerg in a situation like MVP vs Nestea blizzcon finals, except maybe don't attack. It's a good change. The TvZ matchup is one of the best in Sc2 and this should make the lategame more dynamic. And if you think about it, if this patch was live then DRG won Blizzard Cup :D:D Edit: If you think about it, Terran actually just dies slower in a game they are losing. Therefore, the graph is invalid....and mass ravens is superior to all air:D:D:D:D:DD:
Ghosts never played a big part to MMA winning against DRG in the Blizzard Cup. He preferred Marauders.
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On February 11 2012 12:50 Demnogonis wrote:
Mule change seems reasonable, even though I'd still prefer gold bases just go. Planetary Fortress, Siege Tanks, Mules still helping you to mine them out faster...
Phoenix upgrade really should be in Cybercore but it's a good idea, I really don't like how the answer to Phoenix is making even more Mutalisks.
Snipe change I really didn't see coming, Ghost wasn't some super-effective counter to everything and Sniping was pretty fun. No matter though, if there's no reason to aim for the late game, that's fine by me. BIT BY BIT!
APM, CPM, who cares, I just want the ability to permanently shut down chat, while Zerg crying is the most beautiful sound in the world it's getting really old.
After the patch, MULEs should only be spent on patches with the most minerals, completely regardless of color (not taking into consideration hidden bases that are likely to be discovered soon). Having an even income for longer will help you spend money properly. If you mine out patches early, your income will drop, and without the MULE+gold boost, there's no benefit.
Imo, snipe should affect light as well as psionic, otherwise it's almost pointless to snipe a light unit like a marine or zealot when you can just attack them, unless they're out of range and it's soo important that that unit dies. I'd like those early ghost strats in TvT to remain interesting. If it takes two snipes to kill a non combat shield marine, you've just spent 150/50 (academy), 200/100, and production time on a tech lab barracks that for a pretty measly benefit. It would also really be nice against mutas, as it currently is. The 50 damage vs psionic is a buff against infestors, so they can't regen to survive a double snipe like they can now, not that that happens often.
I love that they're putting back in spam APM and making a separate CPM, which may be ignored by many, but it could still be a tool people refer to when watching their own replays or something. I didn't quite ascertain whether it's still in Blizzard time; I assume it is as there's no mention one way or the other.
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On February 11 2012 13:33 RaiKageRyu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 12:44 Bippzy wrote:On February 11 2012 12:14 Jormundr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +From : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309042This is taken from a sample size of 102 TvZ matchups Since this was taken from MLG Providence, I will assume that this sample is almost entirely representative of the top 2% of players (masters and grandmasters). This graph provides evidence that ghosts do not 'counter' tier 3 zerg. Considering the whole broodlord infestor vs ghost marine tank viking dance usually starts at or after 20 minutes, why were terrans not winning here? I am pretty sure that snipe efficiency was figured out pretty well this summer (when we first started to see MVP using it profusely, especially against ultralisk comps). So; Question: If ghosts are so strong, why didn't terrans have a positive win-rate after the 20 minute mark? Answer: Ghosts are incredibly expensive, and require tech lab rax instead of reactor rax (important in a marine dominated matchup) Ghosts actually happen to be the most expensive unit per supply in the terran arsenal (I would argue that 2 supply makes them too easy to mass in TvZ, but 3 supply would have too massive of an effect on TvP) For example, to build the scary ball of ghosts that "counters zerg t3" (as I have read over and over again in this thread) I will assume that they mean a ball of: 15 Ghosts 25 ghosts 3000 minerals 5000 minerals 1500 gas 2500 gas 30 supply 50 supply 120 to 200 seconds* 200 to 330 seconds* * note that the first value corresponds to the mad terran player who just happens to have 5 tech lab rax on hand. Second number is for a terran who has 3. 5 tech lab rax would be slightly unusual in a matchup that is marine dominated So without the ghost, what do you suggest to counter broodlord corruptor infestor? m̶a̶r̶i̶n̶e̶s̶ 1 full energy infestor can kill 35 marines, with enough energy left for two infested terrans. OVERPOWERED, I DON'T LIKE IT, COUNTERS TERRAN T1, NEEDS A NERF (etcetera) ̶t̶h̶o̶r̶s̶ 4 broodlords kill 4 micro'd thors with 2 full health broods left v̶i̶k̶i̶n̶g̶s̶ - 8 corruptors kill 8 vikings with 1 corruptor left (no micro, no corruption) b̶a̶t̶t̶l̶e̶c̶r̶u̶i̶s̶e̶r̶ - I tested 4 cruisers (24 supply, 1 arm, 1 leg,) vs 8 corruptors - 1 battlecruiser lives with 57/550 hp. SAVED r̶a̶v̶e̶n̶ - 13 ravens with HSM kill 8 broodlords (if you use 125 energy each) all of these were done with equal upgrades The problem is that broodlord + corruptor + infestor has a ridiculous advantage in the air battle already. corruptor broodlord is better than terran anti air in a straight up fight. Corruptors are also easier to produce en masse (see larvae) which gives them the ability to take momentum in the air battle much more quickly than a terran with 2-3 reactor ports. Also note that zerg air will generally have both armor and attack upgrades, whereas terran air will at best have attack upgrades, because there is no terran air endgame ball that is effective in tvz. TL;DR Without ghosts, terrans have no answer to zerg air superiority because - wait for it - ZERG AIR IS SUPERIOR The game, is supposed, to theoretically last to late game unless if Blah harassment greed all in Blah happens. At late game, it becomes maintaining expos, and army vs army. If the terran army with ghosts rapes zerg eventually, and it can eventually only need scvs for gas, and it can build bases that defend themselves....... If you try to argue just ling bane vs ghosts wellll....PFs and siege tanks don't just walk out of the picture. The answer eventually becomes nothing for a zerg in a situation like MVP vs Nestea blizzcon finals, except maybe don't attack. It's a good change. The TvZ matchup is one of the best in Sc2 and this should make the lategame more dynamic. And if you think about it, if this patch was live then DRG won Blizzard Cup :D:D Edit: If you think about it, Terran actually just dies slower in a game they are losing. Therefore, the graph is invalid....and mass ravens is superior to all air:D:D:D:D:DD: Ghosts never played a big part to MMA winning against DRG in the Blizzard Cup. He preferred Marauders.
And he had more mining bases and total control (split map on Shakuras) and almost lost to the Brood Lord, Infestor, Corruptor switch since he had too many Marauders. He won because he's MMA and can multitask like crazy and snipe off the rest of the Zerg bases while defending.
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On February 11 2012 13:24 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:11 Ziggitz wrote:On February 11 2012 12:58 DemigodcelpH wrote:On February 11 2012 12:40 Xorphene wrote:On February 11 2012 03:11 xTrim wrote:
overmake vikings = lose to f**king ultra switch... god i hate this, why do i keep playing? Stop feeling so nerfed, zerg's have suffered this forever. Overmake corruptors in ZvP and lose to gateway remax. Stop feeling so special, Terrans moaning about infestors vs vikings need to realise they simply need to split their marines. This is a fantastic patch if you play Zerg. Your bias is showing. Enjoy your free 70-80% ZvT late game winrate as evidenced by the solid statistics in Jormundr's chart. This has been discussed to death already but you appear to be a little slow so I'll repeat it for you. A higher win rate in the late game is NOT evidence that Zerg have an advantage in that period of the game. When Terran gain a big enough advantage they win the game then and there or if they inflicted massive damage but lost most of their army they win it 2 minutes later. When Zerg completely crushes a Terran's two base timing attack and takes a third while getting a 25 worker lead, they win the game 10 minutes later because they lack the tools to win the game right away like Terran does have. In a 20 minute game a Zerg might have taken a decisive lead at the ten minute mark when the Terran botched a timing attack and fell 60 food behind. The earlier in the game you are analyzing the higher the precision with which you can gauge the balance of the match up for that particular moment. As you get into the late game certain patterns skew data and a lot of noise is introduced as players do not reach each stage of the game on equal footing. A significant number of games in ZvT reach the late game with Terran far behind because he made a timing attack that would decide the game earlier on, except instead of the game lasting the same relative length of time depending on who would win, if the Terran wins the game ends almost immediately, if the Zerg wins the game goes on a lot longer. Please stop quoting statistics you don't understand. Sorry but please stop correcting statistics when you don't understand about statistics. The data holds value because there are two corollaries which give it a measure of significance (The TvP endgame @ ~55% toss, and the TvZ endgame at ~55% z) These are both very close to a 'balanced' (50/50) win ratio, and the difference can be easily explained by the margin of error. the 65% win ratio for zerg is in sharp contrast to these. The majority of the confounding variables you mention (failed all-in, failed timing attack, possible eco cheese) should apply across all races.
You do need to think when reading the text books kiddo. Your statement is incredibly stupid if you give it just a little more thought.
If you want to point to a 55% win rate for Terrans overall and then point to a 65% win rate for Zerg in the late game in a vacuum you are completely ignoring that for both of those to hold true then Terran must have an EVEN LARGER advantage earlier in the game.
Does that mean that the early game is incredibly imbalanced in Terran's favour but it's ok because the late game favours zerg? That's one possible but very stupid hypothesis, the reason being that the early game and the late game are not two isolated events, the early game is relatively isolated but the late game is always influenced by how the early game went.
This is why the example I gave is a much more valid hypothesis. It explains why Terrans don't necessarily have a huge advatange in the early game and accounts for why Zerg also has a higher win rate in the later game despite the late game not being an isolated event and the overall win rates being fairly even. Your near blind assertion that Zerg simply has an advantage in the late game does nothing to explain the model.
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Looks good in general. I'm happy with all of this so far.
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How does terran deal with late game infestor broodlord now? I just don't get it.
edit: snipe was also an important source of damage against zealots in late game tvp, now it's even more fucked up and hard to play.
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Somewhere IdrA is smiling. Anyway sure this will go through PTR and we will see what (if any) changes need to be made. I guess terrans might have to give Ravens a try in that match up.
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This is the first balance patch that I am totally and completely in agreement with. I think this is possibly showing more attention to the community on behalf of Blizz.
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How do you deal with zerg air without snipes?
19 snipes against ultralisks?David Kim is a funny guy, he must think that everyone has 5000 apm like MVP, it's not like ghosts were anywhere near a sure win, in fact, I have seen them lose more than they win(hello every foreign terran), unless the terran using them is MVP, but balancing the game due to one player being too good seems quite genuine, I guess.
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The snipe change seems a bit much to me. I understand that snipe isn't meant to counter all zerg, but with snipe doing half as much to BL/Ultra, I think Terran will be too vulnerable to BL/Ultra tech switch. Terrans will now be in the same situation we face against protoss, where the enemy has an extremely powerful unit (BL/Collossi) that can only really be countered by vikings, which are otherwise rather useless supply against a tech switch (Ultras/HT-archon).
I think this, combined with the fact that Blizzard did absolutely nothing to address Terran difficulties in the late game against Protoss means Terrans are going to be resorting to all-ins even more. This is certainly a step in the wrong direction.
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On February 11 2012 13:43 aTnClouD wrote:
How does terran deal with late game infestor broodlord now? I just don't get it.
As a low protoss player... my best guess would be ghost - emp infestor -remaining energy snipe +vikings if you get good emps infestors cant fungal vikings, marines ghost help shred any left over corruptors? Obviously its easy to say this in theory probably hard to pull off but that would be my best guess.
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On February 11 2012 13:56 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:43 aTnClouD wrote:
How does terran deal with late game infestor broodlord now? I just don't get it. As a low protoss player... my best guess would be ghost - emp infestor -remaining energy snipe +vikings if you get good emps infestors cant fungal vikings, marines ghost help shred any left over corruptors? Obviously its easy to say this in theory probably hard to pull off but that would be my best guess.
no offense, but i don't think aTncloud wants the opinion of a low protoss. but i think you're close to something with emping infestors.
i think more late game drops, 1 medivac each to be annoying, and ghost cloaking is going to be essential + sniping the overseer. nukes, too. i'd even say terrans are going to have to go even lighter on the vikings, heavier on ghost because of this, instead of the more intuitive otherwayaround
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/114/zvt.png)
