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Lol why was he warned for that comment? It seems he is just giving his opinion on the casters, not trying to be rude just trying to be honest. Is that not allowed anymore?
Like allready said times are bit rough for Europe people, but other then that i really like it! Keep it up! 
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On February 11 2012 03:11 MrHighlight wrote:
I would recommend replacing Robin. I understand he may have gathered a following of sorts but often times, his commentary is unbearable. He'll talk too fast for way too long and it gets to be way too much. I generally feel the need to mute the cast which is highly unfortunate.
I have to agree with Mr. Highlight. With GSL, IEM, IPL all improving it seems like MLG is not focused on improving. I just can't put 2 and 2 together here. Supposedly they had Wolf but he couldn't make it last minute so they come up with this Robin guy? MLG doesn't have another caster on speed dial or what?
MLG improved leaps and bounds after Dallas, sometimes it takes a step backwards to go 2 forwards. Hopefully they get back to quality casting. EU was a great warm up for Korea, now I feel Korea is off to a terrible start.
I will tune in tonight, but only if it's JP with <any competent caster>
For the record Artosis casting from his bedroom bothers me too, but it's Artosis! I can get over it. It wasn't the bedroom as much as the casting.
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On February 10 2012 20:55 theofficial wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 17:41 PtrPrkr wrote:On February 10 2012 09:58 IFgogogosu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +All I know is the cast tonight is pretty bad. It's the Korean qualifier and they have a kid that appears to be 12 and in his bedroom that said he didn't know the Korean scene during a game. IEM has Bitter, Rotterdam, Rob Simpson MLG has a little kid that obviously doesn't know the match ups or players. He speaks waay to fast also. Here is a fact, He never said code S or code A once during the cast. MLG you really need to step it up. I may sound critical, but being nice cause you are MLG won't help you improve. I would love to meet the genius that said, yeah lets put this guy on. (for anyone who had seen the reddit thread, I posted something similar, I just feel strongly enough to add this in both places)Oh my goodness, IEM has Pro Casters. Good, but where did all the Pro casters come from? Did they begin that way? Pretty sure not. If no one EVER gave them a chance in any spotlight, they would not BE where they are now. I thank MLG for their community caster group because THATS how you grow something. You give people chances and opportunities from which to learn and grow so that they can further contribute. As for the '12-yr-old in his room' comment you made - I seem to recall a very popular caster who does a show FROM his room where you can see just about everything in the background. It was hard to tell that was a bedroom where Robin was - just looked like a white wall with a door to me, but maybe I'm missing something. From what I understand, (from his twitter post I saw) Robin was asked to cast at the last minute. NOT the last week, day, or even hour, but the very last MINUTE because Wolf was unable. And as far as Playhem's "better" casters - It's very possible they were not available either, though I do wonder by whose judgement makes anyone "better" than the next? I watch Playhem, and I've heard Robin cast quite a few times, and do other broadcasts with them. I've heard him tell some people in the chat that he has a full time job as well, and casts playhem something like 20-25 hours a week. There are not a lot of code A or code S players who join Playhem tournaments on a daily basis - you know - with playing in gsl and all. OF COURSE Robin's not going to have a vast knowledge of the Korean scene if he's spending every awake hour either casting EU and NA players OR working to make a living. The fact that he came on to cast at the last minute was great in itself, because he may well have broken OTHER plans for the evening to do so - and that just further grounds his dedication to the community. Obviously, your opinions are yours, IFgogogosu, and I'm not trying to sell you on anything, but I hope someone else who might read this will agree, and see that what MLG is doing is great for the community as a whole, because they are putting their neck on the line and giving people chances to shine/improve/grow esports. Thanks MLG. 1.) you are part of the playhem machine as stated on Reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/user/PtPrkr2.) This Robin guy is a league of legends player not an SC2 player: http://i.imgur.com/SW8pl.jpg3.) You have your own motive because you think you have an "in" with MLG 4.) These people said it best imho b/c it is the truth WITHOUT MOTIVE other than improvement of stream: + Show Spoiler +TerranTerror1
ok 1 are you actually comparing this Robin guy to Day9? Really? I don't care how you try and package it. This is lipstick on a pig. That cast was bad no matter how you cut it. It was a BAD LOOK for MLG.
If they want to give community people a chance then do it with a small event geared toward people that want to watch that. NOT A KOREAN QUALIFIER FOR MLG!
To me it seems like MLG is moving backwards. How do they not have the connections to get some other caster?
Who's judgement makes anyone "better" how about the majority of fans? Case in point... since you compared this guy to Day 9 I will do my own comparison. A poll goes up who would you rather have cast this Korean qualifier Artosis or Gretorp. Is Artosis going to win hands down? Yes because he is a better caster. Nothing against Gretorp just the way it is. Not everyone is cut out to cast for MLG, however you wouldn't know it from day 1 of the Korean Qualifier.
I want to point out I don't think any of this is Robins fault per say. What was he going to say no MLG I don't want to do this. No it's MLG's fault for taking someone totally unprepared and thrusting them into a situation they aren't ready for. We saw it at NASL and IPL too. As an avid GSL watcher I can tell you that cast was horrible and it's MLG's fault not Robins. Someone screwed up bad.
SuperPandas
I understand the motive to bring on new casters and feature new people, but I think you can probably screen them a bit better. Robin doesn't belong on an MLG stream IMHO - MLG is known for top notch production value, casting and games.
No offense to Robin seriously but dude you got a lot of good feedback from the beta streams and it just sounds like you tossed it all out the fucking window. If a caster doesn't listen to his listeners and improve, I don't see a place for them in the spotlight. Just my opinion.
Stimme
Seriously MLG what do you expect me to say? As a fan of SC I am shocked you had the balls to make a reddit post after the way that broadcast went.
Leaked results, poor production ex: lag, music over casters, stream crashes. As if all of that wasn't bad enough this Robin guy to co-cast with JP from his bedroom? I don't even care to elaborate on him.
Sorry no pat on the back from me, can't do it. As much of an MLG fan as I am no way can I say good job. If I was a sponsor I would have been pissed. Who is in charge of quality control? I know a bunch of people were fired, I think it's
starting to show....
Gretrock
I know that all the playhem reddit machine will down vote this but I don't care. Robin is terrible and it shows. Speaks to fast, doesn't have knowledge of the game, and frankly I was embarrassed FOR MLG. Looked like a fan boy in his room Put MLG against the IEM casters and tell me they compare. Playhem has much better casters to choose from than Robin. You don't see IEM or IPL using these guys because they actually care about production unlike MLG. remember Dallas? Downvote away truth hurts.
I can go on and on. Now I also know the motivation for your posts because I know you. I'm guessing MLG isn't going to hire you and Robin probably can't help you get a job with them. It won't help Robin if you blow smoke, nor will it help MLG. They will end up in the same mess that NASL found themselves in if they continue to cheapen their stream.
If MLG is satisfied with the korean coverage of Day1 then God Bless them, I just have higher standards that's all. I would rather pay for Artosis and Tastless than watch last nights cast for free.
MLG has an ability to always bounce back though. Hopefully they do.
Thanks for quoting some reddit posts, but I'm sorry, theofficial - I think you may have made a huge assumption. I have nothing to do with MLG, besides enjoying their content. I don't work for them, have motives for them, nor would I be able to cast for them (or anything similar). In my very last 2-word sentence, I was THANKING THEM.
And I will again. Thank you MLG. Thank you for providing as much content as possible.
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Having Khaldor cast is certainly an improvement over the last few days.
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Tonight sounds way better than yesterday. MLG does the bounce back as predicted. It is so much easier to listen to and watch for sure. JP sounds so much better than yesterday because he is with a casting pro. 1 bad night out of what 5 so far isn't bad. Setting pitch fork down BUT KEEPING IT CLOSE just in case.
Thanks for listening MLG you did the right thing!
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Not a big fan of JP's casting. 
I just feel like he 'doesn't have it'
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On February 11 2012 03:11 MrHighlight wrote:
I would recommend replacing Robin. I understand he may have gathered a following of sorts but often times, his commentary is unbearable. He'll talk too fast for way too long and it gets to be way too much. I generally feel the need to mute the cast which is highly unfortunate.
They took your advice Mr.Highlight much much better. Even JP sounds like he is relieved. They are flowing much better. So happy they listned to the fans. I feel like yesterday is in the past, so on with the great games! I was so excited for Violet and look how good he is playing now. I'm pullling for OZ in this so please cast all of his stuff!!!
Good improvement MLG.
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Just wanted to say you guys are doing a kick ass job with everything. JP your casting is really well done, seems very comfortable with any caster. The production is spot on. Overall really awesome job.
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@theOfficial. Thank you for your thorough and brutally honest feedback. As executive producer on this show and the upcoming Winter Arena broadcast, I will continue to look to the community for constructive criticism.
The issues we ran into last night were my fault and the result of a miscommunication between a caster in a different timezone and I. I want to thank Robin for filling in last minute and JP for adjusting to the last second changes and putting on a great show.
I also want to thank Stephen Basile for helping us fix the technical issues between broadcasts. If you are enjoying a smoother stream tonight, feel free to send him a thank you message on twitter: @MLGStephen.
What do you guys think of the show tonight? Do you like the Khaldor + JP combo?
Wolf joins us tomorrow for our second set of qualifying matches. Keep the feedback coming and we'll continue to improve.
Cheers to a weekend full of awesome Korean matches,
-Chris Puckett
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Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine.
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Khaldor being a GSL caster is great to have around for the Korean qualifiers and he seems to mesh with JP so it flows quite well.
Overall great stream tonight and good choice of casting combo.
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On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote:
Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine.
I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~
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I watched a few VODs and I must say, overall they were nice, and the only points of criticism are somewhat nit-picky, though should REALLY be considered in the long run.
First off, its impossible for the entire world to be watching live at a comfortable time; this we know, or atleast the community should respect this fact. However, if many are then forced to watch VODs, you can make them more exciting by figuring out a way to hide the total time of the clips from the VODs. I was watching MMA vs. Lucky yesterday, and just didn't feel shocked or excited at the clusterfuck of cheese, because when I turned on the VOD, I could see that it's run time was only 8 minutes. I know this is more so a responsibility of whoever created the video player, but you could try to get into contact with them, and see if they can make an exclusive VOD player that hides the total time, and even the progression bar (optional to the viewer I'd suggest), to maximize the excitement that you can get from these clips. I know many will argue against it, but Live streams don't give total time either, so convenience doesn't HAVE to be a factor.
Second, some of the VOD series were off in color. I believe it was Ghanzi vs Fin, in which the red color was terribly dark, and the green hue seemed dominant. This is nit-picky, but if there's an easy fix for future VODs, definitely look into it.
Other than that, it's all good. I'm getting a bit pissed off that people are criticizing casters, namely Robin. It was the community that helped make Day[9] and all the other bigger names successful. I just don't feel this reflects on the same kind of community that helped it's own rather than trying to kick them away for not being perfect right away. It's a shame.
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On February 11 2012 17:18 BrightSideSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote:
Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine. I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~
what? "what can we do better?" "oh theres some things but since it was 80% good we wont bother telling you"
how helpful. people are posting criticisms, they arent being negative, thats not the same thing
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On February 12 2012 06:09 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 17:18 BrightSideSC2 wrote:On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote:
Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine. I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~ what? "what can we do better?" "oh theres some things but since it was 80% good we wont bother telling you" how helpful. people are posting criticisms, they arent being negative, thats not the same thing
Criticisms without insight into how to improve are completely worthless. Might as well call it a vent thread for casting.
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263 Posts
I think Khaldor is second to Artosis based on his knowledge of the KR scene he casts GSL and usually right after KSL and he works very well with anyone and he also sounds very enthusiastic
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On February 12 2012 06:09 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 17:18 BrightSideSC2 wrote:On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote:
Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine. I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~ what? "what can we do better?" "oh theres some things but since it was 80% good we wont bother telling you" how helpful. people are posting criticisms, they arent being negative, thats not the same thing
The issue is that the criticisms don't seem to be useful or conducive to improvement. The overarching attitude of the responses in this thread seems to be "this isn't what we're used to, we only want the best." The problem with that is with the abundance of tournaments appearing in the SC2 eSports scene, you can't always provide the best. For that reason, it would be far more helpful to give insightful criticism with actual ideas for improvement when considering the lesser known or less popular casters. That exists in this thread, but it's largely the minority.
New and unfamiliar casters shouldn't be criticized for the fact that they're new and unfamiliar. If there's an issue with their casting, point it out and suggest areas where they could work to improve instead of a simple "These casters are just bad, why don't they have someone established in the scene for this event."
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I barely know this exists, the hour its on is just not possible to watch for me. Good that your changing that atleast. But you still need to hype this up more and advertize it.
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On February 12 2012 06:23 DarkenedLite wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 06:09 turdburgler wrote:On February 11 2012 17:18 BrightSideSC2 wrote:On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote:
Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine. I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~ what? "what can we do better?" "oh theres some things but since it was 80% good we wont bother telling you" how helpful. people are posting criticisms, they arent being negative, thats not the same thing The issue is that the criticisms don't seem to be useful or conducive to improvement. The overarching attitude of the responses in this thread seems to be "this isn't what we're used to, we only want the best." The issue with that is that with abundance of tournaments, you can't always provide the best. For that reason, it would be far more helpful to give insightful criticism with actual ideas for improvement. That exists in this thread, but it's largely the minority. New and unfamiliar casters shouldn't be criticized for the fact that they're new and unfamiliar. If there's an issue with their casting, point it out and suggest areas where they could work to improve instead of a simple "These casters are just bad, why don't they have someone established in the scene for this event."
The only problem with that is, there are some casters that are generally a square trying to fit in a round hole. While I understand that overall people want to give as much specific help and advice as possible, frankly, sometimes the most specific and best advice is going to be: Get this person the hell away from a casting booth. I'm not saying that about anyone in particular, but rather, trying to point out that this "Give advice everyone can be better!" attitude is unrealistic.
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On February 12 2012 06:26 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 06:23 DarkenedLite wrote:On February 12 2012 06:09 turdburgler wrote:On February 11 2012 17:18 BrightSideSC2 wrote:On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote:
Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine. I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~ what? "what can we do better?" "oh theres some things but since it was 80% good we wont bother telling you" how helpful. people are posting criticisms, they arent being negative, thats not the same thing The issue is that the criticisms don't seem to be useful or conducive to improvement. The overarching attitude of the responses in this thread seems to be "this isn't what we're used to, we only want the best." The issue with that is that with abundance of tournaments, you can't always provide the best. For that reason, it would be far more helpful to give insightful criticism with actual ideas for improvement. That exists in this thread, but it's largely the minority. New and unfamiliar casters shouldn't be criticized for the fact that they're new and unfamiliar. If there's an issue with their casting, point it out and suggest areas where they could work to improve instead of a simple "These casters are just bad, why don't they have someone established in the scene for this event." The only problem with that is, there are some casters that are generally a square trying to fit in a round hole. While I understand that overall people want to give as much specific help and advice as possible, frankly, sometimes the most specific and best advice is going to be: Get this person the hell away from a casting booth. I'm not saying that about anyone in particular, but rather, trying to point out that this "Give advice everyone can be better!" attitude is unrealistic.
Oh I completely agree on that point, but when one of the primary criticisms of a caster is his location when he comes up on screen then I don't really think that truth applies. Especially if it's one of his first bigger casting situations which has a whole host of other challenges. Casters shouldn't be dismissed out of hand because of one specific performance or due to weaknesses that they haven't been given the chance to iron out yet.
Obviously if they continually show that they can't step up to the plate and act as an entertaining and strong addition to the overall production then -that- is the time to step back and say "maybe this just isn't where they belong".
In the end though, it's up to the organizers of that specific production and usually they don't have the luxury of an appropriately long evaluation period. However, it can only help if the viewers don't start their criticism with jaded motivations, apathy, or outright dislike without justifiable reasons that they clearly identify.
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EPT
