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But you do NOT have a product you can sell like that. It's easy to say "yeah, we need this much money or this doesn't work for us". You can use terms like deserving and entitlement all you want, but they don't mean anything because you can't sell what you're giving for free.
The ONLY way you can appeal to fans is by saying "if you want esports to succeed, you have to pay up". You're basically appealing to our sympathy and passion as fans, instead of offering a product which is appealing in and of itself. And you can't build a sustainable business on sympathy, that approach can only take you so far - about as far as it has right now, but I wouldn't push it any further than that.
There will always be free SC2 in abundance, and leagues and tournaments that stay 100% free will thrive. There will always be tournaments like Shoutcraft Invitational, which nearly matched MLG's prize pool last year and can get any player in the world to participate in it, and if the major organizations adopt subscription models, there will be more smart people who realize they can run an online tournament/league that will rack up the viewership with a relatively minor investment. Needless to say, less than legal ways of acquiring big tournament VODs will also become popular, it's something that every part of entertainment industry has to deal with and take into account.
Like someone said earlier, if people believe in the subscription or PPV models - go ahead and try it. I think it would be suicidal for GOM to even attempt something like that as they're already under threat of becoming irrelevant in Korea the moment the big boys set their sights on SC2, but what do I know, right? I'm sure it will all work out for the best.
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People shot me down before saying it was a stupid idea, but I still think e-sports betting would be an incredibly easy way to monetise SC2.
It would be so easy to implement, very little cost. Massive returns. And it would make organisers ALOT of money. Even from us, high schoolers and university students, because even we like to bet larger than we pay for streaming.
Oh, and there are sports betting websites already making HEAPS of money off of SC2 tournaments sports betting. So I say subsidise tournaments with that money instead of lining the pockets of some web multi-millionaire.
It's for a good cause! =)
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UFC didn't start out as a well-greased marketing machine like it is now. The problem is that E-Sports is a grass-roots effort outside of Korea at the moment, and like pretty much all grass-roots 'sports' with proportionately small following when compared to the UFC some entrepreneurs will go bust trying to make it work as a money generator.
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On February 12 2012 18:27 FXOpen wrote:
Ok guys.. So here it is, me being an asshole once again.
First of all, the idea of this thread is good. I like it.
But the thread is filled with so much misinformation and delusional comparisons and requests that it kind of turns into a fairytale rather than reality.
Firstly, if people think someone can live off stream revenue given that the CPM rates for e-sports streams is like 1/10th off of normal content streams, they are wrong. Doesn't matter who you are. To make decent income from streaming you need about 40k viewers concurrent.
...
I`m always grateful to read posts by people who are deeply involved in the eSport industry and especially you are very open with the community. much appreciated. But here you are wrong. If you have enough viewers you can make a living off of streaming. Here is a screenshot taken from the stream of a league of legends player (Hotshotgg) who often has 10k viewers on his stream and makes excellent money.
+ Show Spoiler +
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I personally have serious doubts if I want ESPORTS to become really big and mainstream. I would prefer the grassroots type of ESPORTS we've had for a long time, where monetary interests aren't necessarily the driving force for everything.
The more mainstream ESPORTS becomes the more dumbed down it will become aswell, we've seen the trend already from SC1 -> SC2, DoTA -> LoL, Quake -> Call of Duty, PC -> Console etc(some games are good on console, not FPS games though) . I'm not calling people who play those games/platforms dumb but they are simplified games to reach a broader audience tbh.
We also see the trend in commentating, more mainstream means more color commentators who don't actually know the game but are good at hyping every little thing going on. I much prefer Waaaghtv in WC3 to streams in SC2, where I could watch games live while controlling the camera myself, being able to watch whatever I want. Streams = monetized entertainment for the masses, Waaaghtv = grassroots entertainment for passionate gaming fans(very generalized, sure).
I'm convinced grassroots ESPORTS and mainstream ESPORTS can't coexist and both do well, it's one or the other.
For me as a casual "hardcore" gamer with no ambitions of doing gaming for a living, I mostly see downsides to ESPORTS becoming mainstream and driven by commercial interests.
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It's not growing in Korea.
About West, it's not the right game / right time.
I guess it was a good first shot. But people will have to wait some more for true esports to happen.
I guess something like 2015 ?
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On February 12 2012 18:27 FXOpen wrote:
Ok guys.. So here it is, me being an asshole once again.
First of all, the idea of this thread is good. I like it.
But the thread is filled with so much misinformation and delusional comparisons and requests that it kind of turns into a fairytale rather than reality.
Firstly, if people think someone can live off stream revenue given that the CPM rates for e-sports streams is like 1/10th off of normal content streams, they are wrong. Doesn't matter who you are. To make decent income from streaming you need about 40k viewers concurrent.
Secondly, players don't get paid anywhere near the delusional amounts that are quoted various times in this thread.
No WAY did a team owner make millions per yr from e-sports. If they did they are most probably involved with the mafia??? Or something is up...
Subscriptions are the ONLY way to make quick revenue from e-sports and forcing them is going to eventually be the norm. It will come to the point where GSL will not let people watch if they haven't subscribed. And rightly so. Why the hell should someone who spends a solid 500k on equipment, let you watch for free? This doesn't apply to small start ups such as my own events. But something like GSL which is BETTER quality than TV (if you have HQ) does not belong on free to air. And you do not DESERVE to watch it for free. Alot of time, effort money and skill has gone into their production. That being said, most people do subscribe to their content.. Rightly so.
If you want to look at the future and monetizing e-sports. First the excess of low quality content has to disappear.. The standards have to be alot higher for new starts, and its starting to happen. The problem is the cost of starting something like GSL is almost at 1 million dollars. (equipment from scratch, staffing, tech experts, studio, maintainence, decoration). With that as the budget, there is maybe 1 organisation who can keep up with GSL.. That is IPL. But IPL is taking it easy and slowly which is the right thing to do. Eventually they will kick things up to a higher level, and you will be charged for it. Again if the quality is high enough, i say go for it.
The next step in monetization is having something that can actually be sold as high quality merchandise.. Not stupid little gimmicky things. But real products. This will happen eventually , but again first the people who take advantage of a 'boom bust' market have to be shaken out. Once this happens a few solid startups with good quality merch will move forward and the industry will have another means of making money.. Endorsements. For instance, "you can sell a shirt on my name on it for 20% royalties"..
Finally, as I have stated before, until money is pumped into the RIGHT hands, e-sports will always remain oddly out of place. Personalities belong in the personality section, players in the player section, and there shouldn't be anything in between. The person who gets paid the most money in e-sports should be the person who wins the most titles. Not some guy who says FUCK alot on his stream (no i dont talk about destiny, so flame someone else).
If the e-sports community wants to be taken seriously, they need to become fans of those who take it seriously. When that happens the sponsors will come, the merch will come and the royalties will come. The circle will begin. Until then, its just a bit of a mess with some easy money for some people, and financial ruin for others.
(Before you accuse me of being salty, remember I make my money from elsewhere... I just like e-sports and the exposure it gives my company).
Have fun..
FXOBoss
P.S I hope GSL makes it pay per view only in the next 3 months....
This is totally bogus considering BW would never have gotten to the point where companies like Samsung and CJ are sponsoring it if kespa had ever charged viewers to watch. It's kind of weird coming from you since FXO is the only SC2 team named after its sponsor like BW teams.
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I'd gladly pay $30 for HQ ... if I could watch HQ :/
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On February 12 2012 14:26 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 23:12 Zax19 wrote:
The rant itself is not a good way to convey the message but I get the general idea and agree that in order to make things happen you need money you can spend. FXO Boss already said this but he sort of went against himself when he gave out full HD stream for the FIS5. The gist of it is that many sponsors offer goods rather than money and promote things the viewers already know/own while the teams need to “spend money to make money”.
Right now I think it’s ok to offer a 360p stream and VODs for free because outside of America I don’t think it’s that common to pay for things via Paypal and so on, you’d lose many eyeballs. The point of charging right now should be to limit the quality/quantity of the product and then use the money to transfer from a community (based on voluntary work) to an industry (where people get paid for the work they do). For example Totalbiscuit having a short QnA with the subscriber chat. Good journalists should be paid, same as good chat/forum moderators and so on…
I’m still concerned if it’s a good idea to build up an industry around entertainment when countries suffer because there major industries don’t have the confidence to spend money to make money because of the financial recession. I’d rather see someone study and strive to fix American health care rather than make esports bigger because some things are just more important for the society. Personally I’d like to see a transition from the madness of constant supply and demand chase, yet there still are areas vital to the function of our society which would benefit from educated or simply hardworking people. HD stream is free in FIS ... Sub is optional..
...Yes, that was the point  . Meaning you'd like companies to support teams financially but then you decide to lose money on subscriptions by giving out HD for free. Make the people pay for HD. It's not an insult to them, you deserve to get paid and only total A-holes would have anything against it. I guess you think your content is not good enough to demand money for HD? That's silly, it's more than enough! :D
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I think this all comes down to what a person feels e-sports should amount to. If you are one of those people that sees SC2 as a hobby for all involved then of course content should be largely free. Sure some people make a living with their hobbies but it is a come what may scenario. If you are one of the people that believes e-sports should be a viable profession then monetizing is inevitable. For such an outcome there would have to be a HUGE influx of cash not just for events but also for teams so they could provide what we all expect from good employers (management, salaries, financial benefits, medical benefits, etc.).
If I were to give my opinion I think we will end up in a place between the two (very similar to BW) where the top dogs earn big money including the benefits I mentioned and 99% of other pros will make practically nothing. Although the onset of stream income may reduce the disparity somewhat.
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Paying of HQ is oky, paying for fast loading/early uploaded vod is oky
Paying for all the content is not, and it will drive people away, up until the point where you will not have enough people following the scene for teams to get money from sponsors = > no more teams = > no more players => no more MLG/IPL/GSL... w.e
+ Show Spoiler +Isn't that what is happening in korea after all ?
There are around 500k sc2 players but a korean top tier team makes as much as an mid tier global team since GOM content is pay to view and they don't allow things such as barcrafts ... might be bs, but i heard comments about the pay for view being the reason why sc2 isn't blowing up all that much there.
So to make things short:
1 You have payed HQ... its fine but its almost like a "donation" since seeing tasteless face in HD isn't all that much for 25$
2 You have payed VoD/HQ/Payed member only events ( like GOM )... Its fine but you might alienate some people if they fell like there is not actual way to watch the league comfortably without paying ( also, there is piracy in case of gom vods/chines vods for free.... etc )... basically you risk losing viewers and not actually gaining any income unless there is a lack of other leagues/you have higher quality content ( which costs money )
3 Everything is payed... and i have mentioned the reason why it is bad
You have to remember that a shit load of the audience are college students/teens/young people who might not have 30$ to throw at every event once a moth or every few months.
Quite frankly i believe that if they want to cut on something... cut on casters, if the rumors are true that they make as much as they do ( no official number released ... cuz hey guys, lets keep it secret ), i hardly believe anyone would mind mid tier casters as long as they are fluent in English and have knowledge of the game... just get 2 pros to commentate for free for fucks sake.
And lastly you have to ask: Why are the number not released ?
I could get behind MLG ( hell a lot of the community could ) if they actually released there profit/spendings
( aka - caster cost payment + transport + hotel : X, korean transport + hotel cost : Y, Crew payment: Z, Hiring the place + the PCs........etc )
Even more ... why aren't the player salary released ?
Give the community and idea about how much you average Joe makes so that the community can decide if they still support tournaments that go for the " winner takes 100k" model rather than IEM model " we give you hotel room + transport and a minimum of 250 prize if you qualify".
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i don't think eSports is large enough in the western to actually make money off a subscription model. I would never pay for SC2 vods. I rather watch high level amateurs streaming for free than pay a fee to watch a single tourney.
The truth is, that e-sports is just not big enough to really support a big number of professional players. There is ton of free content, so there is no need to pay for. If the free content is taken away, SC2 popularity will vanish completely.
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On February 12 2012 21:13 Zax19 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 14:26 FXOpen wrote:On February 10 2012 23:12 Zax19 wrote:
The rant itself is not a good way to convey the message but I get the general idea and agree that in order to make things happen you need money you can spend. FXO Boss already said this but he sort of went against himself when he gave out full HD stream for the FIS5. The gist of it is that many sponsors offer goods rather than money and promote things the viewers already know/own while the teams need to “spend money to make money”.
Right now I think it’s ok to offer a 360p stream and VODs for free because outside of America I don’t think it’s that common to pay for things via Paypal and so on, you’d lose many eyeballs. The point of charging right now should be to limit the quality/quantity of the product and then use the money to transfer from a community (based on voluntary work) to an industry (where people get paid for the work they do). For example Totalbiscuit having a short QnA with the subscriber chat. Good journalists should be paid, same as good chat/forum moderators and so on…
I’m still concerned if it’s a good idea to build up an industry around entertainment when countries suffer because there major industries don’t have the confidence to spend money to make money because of the financial recession. I’d rather see someone study and strive to fix American health care rather than make esports bigger because some things are just more important for the society. Personally I’d like to see a transition from the madness of constant supply and demand chase, yet there still are areas vital to the function of our society which would benefit from educated or simply hardworking people. HD stream is free in FIS ... Sub is optional.. ...Yes, that was the point . Meaning you'd like companies to support teams financially but then you decide to lose money on subscriptions by giving out HD for free. Make the people pay for HD. It's not an insult to them, you deserve to get paid and only total A-holes would have anything against it. I guess you think your content is not good enough to demand money for HD? That's silly, it's more than enough! :D
It does not make sense to rant over people not buying a product. If you can't sell your product, than obviously people decide its not worth buying it. A monetarization cannot be "management driven". If there is enough demand, the monetarization will come, else it will stay at the level it is today (the likely scenario). I think it will take way more time to grow eSports (and it took years in Korea also)
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i think only gsl and ipl and maybe nasl even deserves to charge viewers a fee. i think the "live is free" format is great. and maybe the "selected games are free" is also good.
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On February 12 2012 18:27 FXOpen wrote:
Ok guys.. So here it is, me being an asshole once again.
First of all, the idea of this thread is good. I like it.
But the thread is filled with so much misinformation and delusional comparisons and requests that it kind of turns into a fairytale rather than reality.
Firstly, if people think someone can live off stream revenue given that the CPM rates for e-sports streams is like 1/10th off of normal content streams, they are wrong. Doesn't matter who you are. To make decent income from streaming you need about 40k viewers concurrent.
Secondly, players don't get paid anywhere near the delusional amounts that are quoted various times in this thread.
No WAY did a team owner make millions per yr from e-sports. If they did they are most probably involved with the mafia??? Or something is up...
Subscriptions are the ONLY way to make quick revenue from e-sports and forcing them is going to eventually be the norm. It will come to the point where GSL will not let people watch if they haven't subscribed. And rightly so. Why the hell should someone who spends a solid 500k on equipment, let you watch for free? This doesn't apply to small start ups such as my own events. But something like GSL which is BETTER quality than TV (if you have HQ) does not belong on free to air. And you do not DESERVE to watch it for free. Alot of time, effort money and skill has gone into their production. That being said, most people do subscribe to their content.. Rightly so.
If you want to look at the future and monetizing e-sports. First the excess of low quality content has to disappear.. The standards have to be alot higher for new starts, and its starting to happen. The problem is the cost of starting something like GSL is almost at 1 million dollars. (equipment from scratch, staffing, tech experts, studio, maintainence, decoration). With that as the budget, there is maybe 1 organisation who can keep up with GSL.. That is IPL. But IPL is taking it easy and slowly which is the right thing to do. Eventually they will kick things up to a higher level, and you will be charged for it. Again if the quality is high enough, i say go for it.
The next step in monetization is having something that can actually be sold as high quality merchandise.. Not stupid little gimmicky things. But real products. This will happen eventually , but again first the people who take advantage of a 'boom bust' market have to be shaken out. Once this happens a few solid startups with good quality merch will move forward and the industry will have another means of making money.. Endorsements. For instance, "you can sell a shirt on my name on it for 20% royalties"..
Finally, as I have stated before, until money is pumped into the RIGHT hands, e-sports will always remain oddly out of place. Personalities belong in the personality section, players in the player section, and there shouldn't be anything in between. The person who gets paid the most money in e-sports should be the person who wins the most titles. Not some guy who says FUCK alot on his stream (no i dont talk about destiny, so flame someone else).
If the e-sports community wants to be taken seriously, they need to become fans of those who take it seriously. When that happens the sponsors will come, the merch will come and the royalties will come. The circle will begin. Until then, its just a bit of a mess with some easy money for some people, and financial ruin for others.
(Before you accuse me of being salty, remember I make my money from elsewhere... I just like e-sports and the exposure it gives my company).
Have fun..
FXOBoss
P.S I hope GSL makes it pay per view only in the next 3 months....
sallary in sport has never been a simple 1;1 correlation with skill. and i know that you know this, so im suprised your saying the guy who wins the most should be paid the most. i also dont believe the whole industry will go to ppv. in a world of ppv the only guy running free to watch shows will get huge numbers, that isnt to say ppv wont become bigger. there will be a balance between the number of f2w and ppv content providers, this much is pretty much a given fact. look at any industry or any dove/hawk situation, i cant think of a single one where the system is balanced with 100% of 1 product.
apart from that, thanks for the insight.
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On February 12 2012 18:27 FXOpen wrote:
[...]
If the e-sports community wants to be taken seriously, they need to become fans of those who take it seriously. When that happens the sponsors will come, the merch will come and the royalties will come. The circle will begin. Until then, its just a bit of a mess with some easy money for some people, and financial ruin for others.
(Before you accuse me of being salty, remember I make my money from elsewhere... I just like e-sports and the exposure it gives my company).
Have fun..
FXOBoss
P.S I hope GSL makes it pay per view only in the next 3 months....
no no no. it is not my job to pay money to something so they can get big sponsored budget and expand...
what kind of CEO fairytale is this?
its not our job to give you money. its the job of the companies we buy shit from. ill just repeat this and repeat this the same way others tell me to give them money for no reason.
i have bought the following bullshit:
ALTERNATE PC 800 Euros
Samsung LED 170 Euros
Steelseries Mouse 80 Euros
Speedlink Headset 80 Euros
Roccat Mousepad 30 Euros
Starcraft 2 60 Euros
which makes 1220 Euros. on top of this i drink monster energy about 2 cans a weekend.
and i have to let people accusing me of not spending enough money?! who the fuck do you guys think you are?!
and if thats not enough i am very sorry esports but esports can go fuck itself because im not a money shitting monkey.
you really hit a nerve.. i dont mean it i love you babe.
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On February 12 2012 18:27 FXOpen wrote:
Ok guys.. So here it is, me being an asshole once again.
First of all, the idea of this thread is good. I like it.
But the thread is filled with so much misinformation and delusional comparisons and requests that it kind of turns into a fairytale rather than reality.
Firstly, if people think someone can live off stream revenue given that the CPM rates for e-sports streams is like 1/10th off of normal content streams, they are wrong. Doesn't matter who you are. To make decent income from streaming you need about 40k viewers concurrent.
Secondly, players don't get paid anywhere near the delusional amounts that are quoted various times in this thread.
No WAY did a team owner make millions per yr from e-sports. If they did they are most probably involved with the mafia??? Or something is up...
Subscriptions are the ONLY way to make quick revenue from e-sports and forcing them is going to eventually be the norm. It will come to the point where GSL will not let people watch if they haven't subscribed. And rightly so. Why the hell should someone who spends a solid 500k on equipment, let you watch for free? This doesn't apply to small start ups such as my own events. But something like GSL which is BETTER quality than TV (if you have HQ) does not belong on free to air. And you do not DESERVE to watch it for free. Alot of time, effort money and skill has gone into their production. That being said, most people do subscribe to their content.. Rightly so.
If you want to look at the future and monetizing e-sports. First the excess of low quality content has to disappear.. The standards have to be alot higher for new starts, and its starting to happen. The problem is the cost of starting something like GSL is almost at 1 million dollars. (equipment from scratch, staffing, tech experts, studio, maintainence, decoration). With that as the budget, there is maybe 1 organisation who can keep up with GSL.. That is IPL. But IPL is taking it easy and slowly which is the right thing to do. Eventually they will kick things up to a higher level, and you will be charged for it. Again if the quality is high enough, i say go for it.
The next step in monetization is having something that can actually be sold as high quality merchandise.. Not stupid little gimmicky things. But real products. This will happen eventually , but again first the people who take advantage of a 'boom bust' market have to be shaken out. Once this happens a few solid startups with good quality merch will move forward and the industry will have another means of making money.. Endorsements. For instance, "you can sell a shirt on my name on it for 20% royalties"..
Finally, as I have stated before, until money is pumped into the RIGHT hands, e-sports will always remain oddly out of place. Personalities belong in the personality section, players in the player section, and there shouldn't be anything in between. The person who gets paid the most money in e-sports should be the person who wins the most titles. Not some guy who says FUCK alot on his stream (no i dont talk about destiny, so flame someone else).
If the e-sports community wants to be taken seriously, they need to become fans of those who take it seriously. When that happens the sponsors will come, the merch will come and the royalties will come. The circle will begin. Until then, its just a bit of a mess with some easy money for some people, and financial ruin for others.
(Before you accuse me of being salty, remember I make my money from elsewhere... I just like e-sports and the exposure it gives my company).
Have fun..
FXOBoss
P.S I hope GSL makes it pay per view only in the next 3 months....
I think there is no demand for the amount of quality you are trying to produce. Quite simple. You won't get enough money to finance those huge investments. For now i think most people are perfectly fine with the quality level of Imba.TV or Zotac,playhem etc. They have low prices and pretty low investments. That will work.
There is no room for big business and million dollar investments currently in ESports, get over it. It will probably never be there, because you can organize an online tourney with some 200$(+time) investment and will still get decent players + viewership. This is the internet, not TV. Its starcraft and not soccer.
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On February 12 2012 22:08 leecH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 18:27 FXOpen wrote:
[...]
If the e-sports community wants to be taken seriously, they need to become fans of those who take it seriously. When that happens the sponsors will come, the merch will come and the royalties will come. The circle will begin. Until then, its just a bit of a mess with some easy money for some people, and financial ruin for others.
(Before you accuse me of being salty, remember I make my money from elsewhere... I just like e-sports and the exposure it gives my company).
Have fun..
FXOBoss
P.S I hope GSL makes it pay per view only in the next 3 months.... no no no. it is not my job to pay money to something so they can get big sponsored budget and expand... what kind of CEO fairytale is this? its not our job to give you money. its the job of the companies we buy shit from. ill just repeat this and repeat this the same way others tell me to give them money for no reason. i have bought the following bullshit: ALTERNATE PC 800 Euros Samsung LED 170 Euros Steelseries Mouse 80 Euros Speedlink Headset 80 Euros Roccat Mousepad 30 Euros Starcraft 2 60 Euros which makes 1220 Euros. on top of this i drink monster energy about 2 cans a weekend. and i have to let people accusing me of not spending enough money?! who the fuck do you guys think you are?!and if thats not enough i am very sorry esports but esports can go fuck itself because im not a money shitting monkey. you really hit a nerve.. i dont mean it i love you babe.
I agree. We grow the scene by supporting the sponsors and that is no small feat. I would even go so far as to say that if they make sc2 tournaments scrictly PPV then they will kill the growth of esports (atleast in sc2). How exactly do you get new people interested in something that they can't watch without first having to bring out the credit card and pay for ONE of the 4 different tournaments.
The point about all esports that is so attractive about it is that it's so accessible. Imagine if LoL tournament streams were PPV and riot didn't embed the streams etc in their client / on their website. Do you really think they would have anywhere close to the viewership they've had?
The esports experience is all about going on twitter, seeing a tournament going on. Checking out the link and boom you are watching top level players in one of your favorite games. If that dissapears from esports then I will too and many others with me probably.
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PPV only. = Growth of competitive Starcraft will be stumped, possibly killed, as free streams are currently the only major way of getting people interested.
Not surprised to hear those statements coming from FXOBoss considering FXO's business model is derivatives/complex financial instruments, rather than producing something of value.
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On February 12 2012 19:09 harharhar wrote:
People shot me down before saying it was a stupid idea, but I still think e-sports betting would be an incredibly easy way to monetise SC2.
It would be so easy to implement, very little cost. Massive returns. And it would make organisers ALOT of money. Even from us, high schoolers and university students, because even we like to bet larger than we pay for streaming.
Oh, and there are sports betting websites already making HEAPS of money off of SC2 tournaments sports betting. So I say subsidise tournaments with that money instead of lining the pockets of some web multi-millionaire.
It's for a good cause! =)
Your first post was to encourage young people to gamble with esport as a medium and you still haven't figured out why people shot you down, and you are repeating yourself again in your second post. How dense are you? There are plenty of ways to make lots of money and not all of them are ethically acceptable, least of all encouraging kids to BET ON VIDEO GAMES.
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