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On February 10 2012 07:36 xSixGeneralHan wrote:
MLG is doing it the right way, they had a product, needed it improved awhile ago. Got venture capital funding to get production and events to a place where MLG should be able to move to a sustainable model of pricing for all content. They fly gsl competitors here, they have like 6 streams with commentators, add production value well. All these people arguing about quality of content should be there before they pay are proving the point some of these events deserve to be pure pricing based and try to make their money there.
If hot pockets, nos, dr.pepper, are required to support MLG making a profit, then that venture capital fund might as well throw in the towel. That's not sustainable at all.
5 bucks a month for arena and content, low quality. 10 bucks a month for arena and content, high quality. 10 bucks per championship event, low quality. 20 bucks per championship event, high quality.
If you refuse to pay that, then all I can do is shake my head.
I think its great that you want "esports" to make money(or your/someone elses business venture). Why would you shake your head at someone refusing to pay for something? Its not your money, its theirs. They can do as they please. I'm tired of reading several posts(not including this one) stating that we should pay for content. Stop telling people how to spend their money(imposing your will). Just offer a product and promote the product, but for christ sake stop imposing your will. If you want to start charging for content then go for it(i do think the organizers should be making some sort of money afterall), But don't start telling people how to think(i.e you should be paying for this) to make a buck. Put your product out there. PEOPLE SHOULD DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES AND NOT BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD THEM.
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Just my two cents on this topic :
When I consider buyuing a ticket for a live stream from an event/tournament in eSports I look at those things :
- content
- production quality
- how big of a deal the event is (excitement factor)
- casters
and very important (in my eyes) :
- Who runs the tournament ?
It seems really stupid but when I see the CEO of MLG (Sundance DiGiovanni) on State of the Game answering the question : "What race do you play ?" says "Well, in Starcraft II I play as the marine" ?!
I'm sorry but at that moment MLG loses all my support ..., I refuse to pay for a tournament where it's own CEO doesn't know the game / doesn't care about the game.
At that point Sundance just lets everyone know that he's only there for the money. ($_$)
I hope that in the future we will see more tournaments run by ex-players / casters (à la Shoutcraft Cup / HDInvitanional even HomeStory cup which is related to ESL) because your actually paying for content that will reward players and make eSports grow and not the year-end "bonus" for some tournament staff that isn't part of the community.
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On February 10 2012 07:44 caradoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 07:36 xSixGeneralHan wrote:
MLG is doing it the right way, they had a product, needed it improved awhile ago. Got venture capital funding to get production and events to a place where MLG should be able to move to a sustainable model of pricing for all content. They fly gsl competitors here, they have like 6 streams with commentators, add production value well. All these people arguing about quality of content should be there before they pay are proving the point some of these events deserve to be pure pricing based and try to make their money there.
If hot pockets, nos, dr.pepper, are required to support MLG making a profit, then that venture capital fund might as well throw in the towel. That's not sustainable at all.
5 bucks a month for arena and content, low quality. 10 bucks a month for arena and content, high quality. 10 bucks per championship event, low quality. 20 bucks per championship event, high quality.
If you refuse to pay that, then all I can do is shake my head. WCG and Dreamhack have been around over a decade, all sponsor supported. They're both completely different models of course, and not saying that MLG shouldn't charge for content, just saying that 'throwing in the towel' is not a foregone conclusion. Also, hot pockets and dr. pepper represent a very different model for sponsorship than sponsors such as intel, cisco, telia,etc. It's not a clear cut distinction, but Hot pockets/Dr.Pepper etc are primarily sponsoring an event such as MLG to create brand loyalty. Their products are disposable, and they want to create habits in their customer base. Whereas intel/cisco/telia are sponsoring dreamhack, for example, in order to create brand equity-- they want to accrue the prestigious/high tech connotation associated with the event. Also notice the style that dreamhack content is produced in-- it lends itself to that type of sponsorship, and I'm also confident that sponsors had a hand in designing their content. Anyways it's a subtle but important difference.
Yes I do understand those subtle differences sure, but intel doesn't need to support dream hack for gamers to know they are a good product. We KNOW intel, we already buy their stuff.
Your WCG proves my point, its a terrible model. Each country is left to fend for their own sponsors etc and then something like 2011 happens and samsung pulls the travel costs from SC2 players. If WCG was well-run, it wouldn't be a giant crapshoot. Good models of business feed into that, all cause and effect. Granted the finals are always nice!!!
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Pay per view suffers from the bootstrap problem, if the content quality is unknown to begin with (e.g., with new streamers and tournaments), it won't get many views. So what people figured out was some hybrid model where the free stream is of lower quality and the paid high quality. However, this model suffers from a purposely decreased value which is my opinion not good for commerce. So what would be good? I think in the end the organisers should team up and form some collective agreement where people can pay like a monthly fee and watch major tournaments. In the end everyone gets paid per use, this is then based on the number of viewers a certain event draws. Users that do not pay this fee will only be able to see a select number of matches. Teamliquid can be a perfect mediator in this.
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On February 10 2012 07:54 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 07:36 xSixGeneralHan wrote:
MLG is doing it the right way, they had a product, needed it improved awhile ago. Got venture capital funding to get production and events to a place where MLG should be able to move to a sustainable model of pricing for all content. They fly gsl competitors here, they have like 6 streams with commentators, add production value well. All these people arguing about quality of content should be there before they pay are proving the point some of these events deserve to be pure pricing based and try to make their money there.
If hot pockets, nos, dr.pepper, are required to support MLG making a profit, then that venture capital fund might as well throw in the towel. That's not sustainable at all.
5 bucks a month for arena and content, low quality. 10 bucks a month for arena and content, high quality. 10 bucks per championship event, low quality. 20 bucks per championship event, high quality.
If you refuse to pay that, then all I can do is shake my head. I think its great that you want "esports" to make money(or your/someone elses business venture). Why would you shake your head at someone refusing to pay for something? Its not your money, its theirs. They can do as they please. I'm tired of reading several posts(not including this one) stating that we should pay for content. Stop telling people how to spend their money(imposing your will). Just offer a product and promote the product, but for christ sake stop imposing your will. If you want to start charging for content then go for it(i do think the organizers should be making some sort of money afterall), But don't start telling people how to think(i.e you should be paying for this) to make a buck. Put your product out there. PEOPLE SHOULD DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES AND NOT BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD THEM.
Sorry, I was meant to show that I was shaking my head at the people who think they deserve it for free. I 100% agree with it's their money, they don't have to support it. I'm saying if you feel entitled to the content, then you're all wrong
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On February 10 2012 07:47 Kanil wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 07:36 xSixGeneralHan wrote:
If you refuse to pay that, then all I can do is shake my head. MLG has a poor tournament, from a spectator's perspective, as opposed to GSL. GSL regularly provides daily content, of the best players in the world, playing live matches, of which you get to see every single one. MLG provides three days of content every other month, of high (but not quite GSL) quality, all live (like GSL), but you only see a fraction of the games. I realize it's not viable for MLG to get players to show up in one place for an entire month, and MLG will never be the GSL, but what I want, and am willing to pay for, is the GSL. The experience of following the GSL is so vastly superior to any other SC2 tournament out there.
1) MLG provides vods too so you can watch all the games. You can watch a fraction live, but for north american timezones, its easier/more convenient to watch MLG live. I've watched far more live MLG games than GSL.
2) Vastly superior is in the eye of the beholder. MLG is often far more entertaining than GSL, if you ask me. I love seeing high level play but I also love the drama you see at MLGs which frankly just doesnt happen at GSL.
3) What does it have to be treated as an either/or? GSL and MLG are both good values as far as the price of entertainment goes.
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On February 10 2012 07:29 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 04:55 Raygun wrote:On February 10 2012 04:39 Liquid`NonY wrote:I'll be damned if most esports fans don't have $30/month to spend for the many hours of entertainment they get from esports. They just feel entitled (not entirely their fault) and they feel some irrational hatred for anyone who is trying to turn a profit, pay their employees and guarantee that the content that everyone loves continues to be produced. I don't have $30/month to spend on Starcraft! I bought that GSL lite ticket, but that's all I can justify spending. All my other spending is for Netflix streaming and for things like cheap sporting events, bars, and dating. My 'entertainment' budget is super tight as a college student and I can't blow everything on Starcraft. I could cut out the GSL ticket, but why? It's like skipping the major leagues and paying for the minors. lol. your argument is nullified with the bold. you could just say you are not a fan of esports and thus other priorities take precedence for your entertainment (i.e. overpriced alcohol in bars > $30/mo for esports)
He just has to split his available money between his different interests. I Could probably spend 30 Dollar for sc2 if reduced my other hobbys. But i don't want to do it because other things are equally important for me.
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On February 10 2012 07:47 Kanil wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 07:36 xSixGeneralHan wrote:
If you refuse to pay that, then all I can do is shake my head. MLG has a poor tournament, from a spectator's perspective, as opposed to GSL. GSL regularly provides daily content, of the best players in the world, playing live matches, of which you get to see every single one. MLG provides three days of content every other month, of high (but not quite GSL) quality, all live (like GSL), but you only see a fraction of the games. I realize it's not viable for MLG to get players to show up in one place for an entire month, and MLG will never be the GSL, but what I want, and am willing to pay for, is the GSL. The experience of following the GSL is so vastly superior to any other SC2 tournament out there.
Correct, for the championship event is what you are talking about. My pricing model had a monthly subscription that assumed an arena every month and content delivered consistently. Like fuck slasher, sotg, etc. If there was a show every day for 2 hrs, you'd have great quantity and good quality. MLG packs so many games and VODs into three days too, also the experience is totally different than GSL, hard to compare exactly
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On February 10 2012 02:52 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 02:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 10 2012 02:20 Ucs wrote:On February 10 2012 01:44 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 10 2012 01:20 MrCon wrote:On February 10 2012 01:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:
1- I went to Brood War because I could watch in on youtube for free. I discovered Boxer, Nada and Oov through Nevake, Jon747 and Violetak channels. If that hadn't been for free, I wouldn't have paid anything, and I wouldn't have known BW pro-scene. The same way I watch tennis from time to time. If I had to pay fucking 20 dollars a month to watch tennis, I wouldn't watch tennis. Even Roland-Garros.
2- I have never watch a single code A, S or GSL game, and therefore I never became interested in pro SC2. Because there is no fucking way I will pay to watch people play a video game. If it had been for free, I would maybe have become interested in the pro-scene and therefore in the game. I haven't. One less client for esport and pro-SC2.
Asking people to pay for GSL is already a terrible idea. They make money from commercials and sponsors anyway. It works now, but it won't work long. BW would have died after few years if watching OSL / MSL / Proleague had costed anything.
Asking people for "quality stream" that are not at least as big as GSL is a joke. Seriously. GSL stream is free. GSL has no ads and its sponsor is a Korean one, marketed for the Korean audience. There is a billion of free contents for sc2, don't act like GOM having paid vods is what prevented you to get interested in sc2 >< Oh yeah, I mixed up GSL and GOM. Well, I don't know anything. Just that I can't watch the biggest league without paying or registering on some obscure website. When I want to look at OSL, I just wait for one of the 6 streams or the youtube vod. There is no such things with major Korean league, apparently. Except that, there are apparently a zillion foreign cup that all have kind of similar names with players that I don't know. Seriously if BW scene had been like SC2 is nowadays, I would have never bothered to watch it. And I would have certainly not paid to have my OSL vods. I am a huge fan and I still wouldn't. I wouldn't have started BW by watching the foreign scene, and as much as I wanted to see Boxer instead of Idra or Fenix, I am kind of curious to see the final of a GSL but really not by random people in a random cup. You get into these things later. You sir are a huge troll bent on doing as much missinformation and spewing dumb false arguments everywhere. GSL stream is free, VOD's are not. You don't have to register on some obscure website to watch GSL ( u can log in with twitter/facebook) or MLG. I get that you don't like SC2 so just don't bother doing missinformation and ignore it. We don't really need a "huge fan" who can't pay 5$ for VOD's and can't be arsed to watch free streams even thou his so called heroes Boxer/nada are playing in those cups. Foreginer cups actually are usually filled with nothing but VERY well know sc2 players. There are actually tons of threads about people complaining that other players don't get a chance to play in foreign cups due to the fact there are no free spots/qualificatins. TL;DR Stop spreading false information, and if u don't like SC2 stop posting in SC2 General. LOL. Hey dude, I've been there for four years and I have 35 times more post than you on this website. So maybe don't talk to me as if I just arrived there and knew nothing. I don't say that the scene is this way or that way. I say that, as much as I have been caught in BW because precisely the biggest league were easy to access and free, I didn't get into watching SC2 because: 1- The biggest league is not free. Ok, maybe it is IF you register on GOMIdon'tknnowwhat and catch the exact time, and if you don't you won't find the VOD on youtube anyway. 2- It's not exciting to watch small leagues when you don't know the game well. That's not misinformation, it's not true or false, it's just my experience. Maybe I am wrong, but still, I am not a SC2 fan, the scene didn't catch me, while it should. I would have watched the GSL if it was on youtube, because that's the one I know (don't know any other cup name), and maybe from then, I would have started to get interested. Starting with EWN (?) or IMBA (?), that's a bit harder than by a huge korean tournament. I didn't start watching BW because of Idra. Actually, I never watched him at all, except in TSL. I got interested because, as a clueless noob, I found OSL final with people like Savior, Bisu or Oov. From then, I started to learn more. But it had to be OSL. Had it been BW equivalent of Zotac (?) cup, I wouldn't have bothered. So my point is that if on top of that, you had to pay to watch EWN and IMBA (whatever they are), people like me would be even more unlikely to get interested. GOM locking the GSL and asking people to pay is hurting esports. So you don't know anything about the SC2 scene. That's fine. Your opinion on it really has no value in this thread then. Times have changed since OSL and Youtube VODs and that model doesn't work for SC2.
I have absolutely no opinion about the scene that I don't know. I just know that the one league I would have been vaguely interested watching without knowing the game and the zillion different events is GSL and that their locked up system is the reason I didn't start watching it.
From then, I guess SC2 would lose a lot of potential viewer by being all organized like GSL or by working on a paying basis. And I said that, had BW been organized like GOM organizes SC2, I wouldn't have discovered it at all.
Maybe it makes no sense at all, but that's just the way it has been for me.
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On February 10 2012 07:57 LunaSea wrote:
Just my two cents on this topic :
When I consider buyuing a ticket for a live stream from an event/tournament in eSports I look at those things :
- content
- production quality
- how big of a deal the event is (excitement factor)
- casters
and very important (in my eyes) :
- Who runs the tournament ?
It seems really stupid but when I see the CEO of MLG (Sundance DiGiovanni) on State of the Game answering the question : "What race do you play ?" says "Well, in Starcraft II I play as the marine" ?!
I'm sorry but at that moment MLG loses all my support ..., I refuse to pay for a tournament where it's own CEO doesn't know the game / doesn't care about the game.
At that point Sundance just lets everyone know that he's only there for the money. ($_$)
I hope that in the future we will see more tournaments run by ex-players / casters (à la Shoutcraft Cup / HDInvitanional even HomeStory cup which is related to ESL) because your actually paying for content that will reward players and make eSports grow and not the year-end "bonus" for some tournament staff that isn't part of the community.
You realize they play other games at MLGs right? Do you expect Sundance to be intimately familiar with every single game played at his tournaments? I certainly don't. He can be part of the community (and frequently is) without playing the game. He's not casting the games, he's organizing the event.
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On February 10 2012 07:40 xSixGeneralHan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 07:34 MHT wrote:
There is no way I would pay PPV especially when there's so many tournaments. Either some go PPV and I stop watching them since there's free once, or they all go PPV and I quit watching all-together. One thing is sure and that is the scene will shrink heavily and ad&sponsor money will be worth much less and therefore smaller companies wont be able to establish since they cant just slam a PPV worthy tournament right from the get-go. Not to mention streamer wont be able to make as much money either.
I'd much rather see many smaller tournaments with a big scene rather than a few big PPV tournaments and a tiny scene divided into the tournaments they like, were I have to pay to watch. Even with the PPV model I just cant pay 20 bucks a month for EACH tournament! The competition will be fierce since you pretty much have to fight for the viewers money and its likely many companies will just fall. In the end there may just be like 3 major tournaments and so much less content. And by then the scene will most likely just be a fraction of what it once was, sure those big companies will make big money but esports will be just dead for hundreds of thousands of people. Its destructive, not for the companies of esports but for the fans. Who says IEM should exist, or NASL. It's a dog eat dog world. We can't live in this stupid assumption that all these live events can co-exist and all make money. It's the same for esports teams. I'd rather see two huge tournaments that I know are sustainable and not going anywhere, that I can depend on. And then fun online tournaments for filler. Than the current terrible over saturation we have now.
We got here just fine without PPV and we will keep growing and increasing sponsor money, but if you start charging new people just wont ever get into it cause why risk throwing money at something your not sure you like. For instance I cant really convince my brother to start watching starcraft if its gonna cost him but if its free he'll can go "sure why it wont hurt to try! This system doesn't support growth, when people quit watching there wont be anyone to replace them because no one gave it chance since it would cost them to even try. Its like milking the the community dry, a temporary boom in money then a never ending decline. Sure Sc2 wont last forever but I think it will sustain way longer in the current model than it would in a PPV one.
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On February 10 2012 08:00 Smackzilla wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 07:47 Kanil wrote:On February 10 2012 07:36 xSixGeneralHan wrote:
If you refuse to pay that, then all I can do is shake my head. MLG has a poor tournament, from a spectator's perspective, as opposed to GSL. GSL regularly provides daily content, of the best players in the world, playing live matches, of which you get to see every single one. MLG provides three days of content every other month, of high (but not quite GSL) quality, all live (like GSL), but you only see a fraction of the games. I realize it's not viable for MLG to get players to show up in one place for an entire month, and MLG will never be the GSL, but what I want, and am willing to pay for, is the GSL. The experience of following the GSL is so vastly superior to any other SC2 tournament out there. 1) MLG provides vods too so you can watch all the games. You can watch a fraction live, but for north american timezones, its easier/more convenient to watch MLG live. I've watched far more live MLG games than GSL. 2) Vastly superior is in the eye of the beholder. MLG is often far more entertaining than GSL, if you ask me. I love seeing high level play but I also love the drama you see at MLGs which frankly just doesnt happen at GSL. 3) What does it have to be treated as an either/or? GSL and MLG are both good values as far as the price of entertainment goes.
1) VODs aren't live, so... yeah. Bad? No. As good? No.
2) Matter of preference, I suppose.
3) It doesn't. But if I had to choose, I'd pick GSL.
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On February 10 2012 07:51 Smackzilla wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 07:43 Thombur wrote:
Seems to me like E-sports are growing at a huge rate, and I think it is much thanks to easily available and free high quality content. If we started to have to pay for content the community would shrink to a small percentage of what it currently is. Then the fees would be required since the viewer base would be so small and all advertisment would diminish. Why would the viewership shrink to nothing? Seriously, I have a hard time wrapping my head around this. If you are an sc2 fan who likes MLG right now, why wouldn't you pay $5 or $10 for watching a tournament? Seems like a better deal than a movie at the theater. Why is $5 or $10 a bad deal for three days of entertainment focused on one of your hobbies or passions?
Because there are so many cups and online tournaments I can view that are free. If none of them were free I might settle for one I like and only view that. Maybe I'd stop watching and find something else that is fun to watch since it would be more difficult keeping up with the general development of the sport.
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I have no problem and highly encourage companies/leagues/corporations to charge for their content Providing it is something worth paying for So far, GSL and MLG are in my opinion the only ones so far who provide high enough quality to charge, which they do but also nicely offer lower quality for free <3
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I already pay for my internet Bandwith and face penalities if I over download. I restrain myself to max 360p on streams not to bust and pay astronomical fees.
If I had to pay for a MLG streaming, I would just go to Barcraft Montreal!
PS: Too keep it free, I would just require people to create an account, be forced to answer a 1-2 pages survey that would then be sold to compagnies so they can send "personnalised" advertisements based on the answers.
If you ask people to be honest as it helps to keep the stream free, alot of us would cooperate I'm sure.
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On February 10 2012 07:57 LunaSea wrote:
It seems really stupid but when I see the CEO of MLG (Sundance DiGiovanni) on State of the Game answering the question : "What race do you play ?" says "Well, in Starcraft II I play as the marine" ?!
I'm sorry but at that moment MLG loses all my support ..., I refuse to pay for a tournament where it's own CEO doesn't know the game / doesn't care about the game.
At that point Sundance just lets everyone know that he's only there for the money. ($_$)
I'm sorry but if you take one answer to a question over what he has done for SC2 this year, you are clearly an ignorant person. Actions speak louder than words, and it is clear that he is committed to improving SC2 as an e-sport based on what has happened this past year and what is to come this year.
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On February 10 2012 08:04 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 07:57 LunaSea wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Just my two cents on this topic :
When I consider buyuing a ticket for a live stream from an event/tournament in eSports I look at those things :
- content
- production quality
- how big of a deal the event is (excitement factor)
- casters
and very important (in my eyes) :
- Who runs the tournament ?
It seems really stupid but when I see the CEO of MLG (Sundance DiGiovanni) on State of the Game answering the question : "What race do you play ?" says "Well, in Starcraft II I play as the marine" ?!
I'm sorry but at that moment MLG loses all my support ..., I refuse to pay for a tournament where it's own CEO doesn't know the game / doesn't care about the game.
At that point Sundance just lets everyone know that he's only there for the money. ($_$)
I hope that in the future we will see more tournaments run by ex-players / casters (à la Shoutcraft Cup / HDInvitanional even HomeStory cup which is related to ESL) because your actually paying for content that will reward players and make eSports grow and not the year-end "bonus" for some tournament staff that isn't part of the community.
You realize they play other games at MLGs right? Do you expect Sundance to be intimately familiar with every single game played at his tournaments? I certainly don't. He can be part of the community (and frequently is) without playing the game. He's not casting the games, he's organizing the event.
I don't expect Sundance to be a pro in every game they play at MLG but a basic knowledge of the game (randomly : the three playable races of the game) is just obviously needed in my opinion, because then you would actually what your talking about when your organising events.
Plus I don't think he can be part of the Starcraft community for example without playing the game.
He maybe organizes the tournament but the fact that someone coms up with money doesn't makes that person part of whatever community, it's just wrong.
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Not getting into the topic at hand, I do not respect Lord Jerith. He is very ignorant about many of the older (mostly PC) games, and really likes to inflate his knowledge and influence.
I used to listen to The Loser's Bracket to learn more about the console competitive players. I did learn a lot, but I also got sad many a time, hearing his words and knowing that he's considered worthy of listening to by some.
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I think Chill summed it up pretty well on the first page. If the community cannot support a more business oriented approach, gaming was never destined to be more than a niche market.
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On February 10 2012 08:12 LunaSea wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 08:04 ZasZ. wrote:On February 10 2012 07:57 LunaSea wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Just my two cents on this topic :
When I consider buyuing a ticket for a live stream from an event/tournament in eSports I look at those things :
- content
- production quality
- how big of a deal the event is (excitement factor)
- casters
and very important (in my eyes) :
- Who runs the tournament ?
It seems really stupid but when I see the CEO of MLG (Sundance DiGiovanni) on State of the Game answering the question : "What race do you play ?" says "Well, in Starcraft II I play as the marine" ?!
I'm sorry but at that moment MLG loses all my support ..., I refuse to pay for a tournament where it's own CEO doesn't know the game / doesn't care about the game.
At that point Sundance just lets everyone know that he's only there for the money. ($_$)
I hope that in the future we will see more tournaments run by ex-players / casters (à la Shoutcraft Cup / HDInvitanional even HomeStory cup which is related to ESL) because your actually paying for content that will reward players and make eSports grow and not the year-end "bonus" for some tournament staff that isn't part of the community.
You realize they play other games at MLGs right? Do you expect Sundance to be intimately familiar with every single game played at his tournaments? I certainly don't. He can be part of the community (and frequently is) without playing the game. He's not casting the games, he's organizing the event. I don't expect Sundance to be a pro in every game they play at MLG but a basic knowledge of the game ( randomly : the three playable races of the game) is just obviously needed in my opinion, because then you would actually what your talking about when your organising events. Plus I don't think he can be part of the Starcraft community for example without playing the game. He maybe organizes the tournament but the fact that someone coms up with money doesn't makes that person part of whatever community, it's just wrong.
I'd prefer for him to run the business better rather than learning build orders. It's not like he's a commentator...
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EPT
