Monetizing Starcraft / LordJerith rant. Thoughts? - Page 21

On February 10 2012 05:25 ChoboFreek wrote:
I personally think that if competitions want to start charging for their services, then they are going to have to make them worth paying for. There's so many free tournaments to watch all the time.
And people are content with watching a lower quality stream if it is free.

GSL charges to watch VODs, and because it's on at a time where most people aren't able to watch it, people are willing to pay for a month's worth of a tournament because it's pretty much the best run tournament there is so far imo.

I feel like if MLG or similar foreign events were a PPV thing, and you could not watch it at all unless you paid for it, then I believe that the numbers would drop significantly.

I feel like it works a lot better in Korea for BW because they have much bigger sponsors behind the events and teams.

On February 10 2012 05:42 gnatinator wrote:
PPV is likely not the right business model for esports. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole just reaks of corporate laziness.

The numbers for UFC are massively inflated due to its broadcast in gyms, bars, etc. These numbers do not directly translate into $20-$30 each.

On February 10 2012 05:41 Hinanawi wrote:


Sure, I can do that. To be fair though, to monetize something it IS helpful to have a good product.

However, there is still hope for SC2, because many not-so-good products have been successfully monetized. SC2 is beginning to experience the inevitable complete domination of Korean players over foreigners, and this is bad news because the foreign scene (aka potential money sources) thrives on foreign player drama and personalities. No whitey = no green, and god knows Korea isn't going to support the SC2 scene itself.

I recommend making a shift to professional-wrestling style full-time official player drama coverage. Maybe you could put Idra, Stephano, Naniwa, Ret, HuK, and InControl in a house together and film their wacky adventures, where they describe their daily proceedings using SC2 terms like Big Bang Theory humor. At the end of each episode a player gets knocked out of the GSL again, but it's a heartwarming learning experience about passion and friendship and everyone's got eachother's backs so it leaves you with a fuzzy good feeling.

On February 10 2012 05:41 karpo wrote:


People here are so defensive. I'm pretty sure there's a smaller percentage of people with the economic means and the drive to actually pay for SC2 compared to NFL football. The gaming crowd is just very fickle and the "sport" isn't stable in the slightest. Other sports have a very solid amateur base, i'm pretty sure SC2 is just losing ground every month in actual casual/amateur players. People watch the tournaments because it's fun and something to do but there's not really much in organized low level play.

Also video games as a medium isn't really ideal for supporting a stable sound economical ground for competitive gaming. There's new games all the time, stuff doesn't age that well and everything depends on the devs actually balancing the game. Compared to most sports a "esports" game is very fickle and doesn't really have a long term.

On February 10 2012 02:20 LordJerith wrote:


I disagree that SC2 will die or NOT grow if you charge for quality streams. The fans grow because they play the game or are brought on by other fans. This happens regardless.

On February 10 2012 05:42 gnatinator wrote:
PPV is likely not the right business model for esports. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole just reaks of corporate laziness.

The numbers for UFC are massively inflated due to its broadcast in gyms, bars, etc. These numbers do not directly translate into $20-$30 each.

On February 10 2012 05:35 ishyishy wrote:



Hundreds of thousands of viewers doesnt make money for sponsers? I doubt that lol. If the sponsers were actually LOSING money, then they would pull out.

Look how many sponsers EG has. Do you think for 1 second that, if they were not getting some sort of profit/value out of EG, they would still continue to support them? No lol. They dont support "esports" for the sake of charity. No sponser would be willing to take a direct hit to their wallet just to be a "nice guy".

If I never knew about sc2, do you think I would have bought all of the sc2-related clothing that I currently have? No. Would

I hate energy drinks because of the carbonated and soda-like nature of them, but then I heard of Monster Rehab from Geoff and now I love that drink. WOuld I have bought that drink if I didnt hear it from him? Most likely not.

Players, teams, and events influence fans to buy things that they otherwise wouldnt have if they never knew about these games. And if I havent heard of MLG before, would I take a risk and purchase a ticket to watch it? Hell no I wouldnt. All of the FREE content is allowing me to get deeper into this community, influencing the things I spend money on AND what I spend my free time watching/doing. "Free" isnt always a bad thing.

On February 10 2012 05:49 skipdog172 wrote:


Yay another person screaming "PPL DONT CARE ABOUT STARCRAFT THEY JUST WATCH AS A HOBBY!!!" Watching something as a hobby is the same as watching SC2 as a hobby. I don't see your point. I don't pay for the NFL. I WOULD happily pay for the NFL if my cable provider had the NFL network I watch advertisements and companies pay to show them to me. That is what is happening with SC2 already but there MUST be something wrong with the pricemodel or there are too many people abusing adblock. There are so many cable network shoes that get <100k/viewers and thers 25-30k SC2 viewers watching These networks are running ads. They are surviving and they MUST have a higher cost of operation compared to the cost required to run SC2 tournaments.

What is the point? We know the model works. Look at South Korea and stop ignoring it by constantly screaming that people don't 'care about watching SC2'. The number of people watching streams/VoDs is getting closer and closer to many many shows on many networks that still manage to stay on the air. It's just a matter of raising viewership. So many obscure sports that get moderate views(<100k) are ON TV RIGHT NOW. Same with many obscure shows.

On February 10 2012 05:42 gnatinator wrote:
PPV is likely not the right business model for esports. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole just reaks of corporate laziness.

The numbers for UFC are massively inflated due to its broadcast in gyms, bars, etc. These numbers do not directly translate into $20-$30 each.

On February 10 2012 05:51 Carnagath wrote:


A guy like you whose approach towards the community is, and I quote, "I'm sick of every one of these whiny little monkeys hanging around on a free stream. Fuck'em. Start chargin'em.", has no position speaking about fans. You belong as far away from the SC2 community as possible and WILL be ostracized and filtered out like the raw sewage that you are sooner rather than later. Don't worry though, there's always a spot for people like you in Kotick's personal marketing posse.

On February 10 2012 04:39 Liquid`NonY wrote:
...
I'll be damned if most esports fans don't have $30/month to spend for the many hours of entertainment they get from esports. They just feel entitled (not entirely their fault) and they feel some irrational hatred for anyone who is trying to turn a profit, pay their employees and guarantee that the content that everyone loves continues to be produced.
...

On February 09 2012 15:09 Chill wrote:
I think people have gotten used to this charity model where the majority is given away for free. I think there's this perception that companies are making money, but I doubt they are.

It's a tough spot. Monetize and people revolt and you die. Don't monetize and you slowly drown. I don't know how it's going to work. Maybe you have to completely level up the broadcast to a completely different place where people expect to pay for that quality? No idea.

Edit: No one seems to treat this as a business. There's a feeling things should be free because they want it to grow. Until we get past that and make it a business, it'll never be more than a niche market, which is fine, but it is what it is.

On February 10 2012 05:44 Boblhead wrote:

this is soo true, I don't know anyone who actually orders UFC through ppv, all my friends usually just head to the bar

On February 10 2012 05:57 Scribble wrote:


So apparently wanting competitive SC2 to be sustainable makes you a greedy corporate shill?

As a fan with no financial stake in the success or failure of SC2 or e-sports as a whole, I agree with him. What's weird to me is that you are so defensive of the types of people who bitch endlessly in stream chat while they enjoy a free stream.

On February 10 2012 06:00 hoby2000 wrote:


It's a pity that a majority of people aren't going to read this post, because what most need to understand is that the spectators are going to have to put forth more money to keep esports like Starcraft 2 alive. There's a reason BW never caught on in the US and that's because no one was willing to put forth the money, which meant that everyone just lived with the Korean streams.

At the current moment, we fans have a great opportunity to start supporting esports by giving these organizations more money, but a lot of people don't act on it. I'm not going to count myself out here, because I'm guilty as the rest of you, but now that I realize that if I don't do something, what has become one of my favorite things to watch will fizzle out into obscurity... just like I thought it was before I knew it was there.

I think what we need is a picture and rant to be done by either players or Day[9] or someone to show that while there are certain parts of this whole thing that are making money (aka single user streaming like Day[9], Destiny, Dragon), the bigger companies with multiple people behind the scenes working their asses off are actually losing money.... or breaking even.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that most people see Starcraft 2 as a hobby, which is why they don't care to pay for premimum streams and would prefer to watch everything for free. The problem I see with this argument is that every other hobby you have, like stamp collecting, or magic the gathering, or playing music all require some sort of investment in both time and money. You can't just get your stamps for free, or your magic cards, or your guitar - None of these things are free and will eventually require not just one investment, but future investments to continue this hobby.

The same is for watching Starcraft 2 - If you like watching SC2, why is it so bad to commit money to this hobby? Not just a one time purchase, but future purchases to go with it just like any other hobby. It seems to me that people are just being selfish, most likely due to a lack of understanding, when they claim that they shouldn't need to spend money to watch Starcraft 2.


What it boils down to is that if you truly support something, the amount of money it costs should be mostly irrelevant. If you don't have the money, then I'm not really sure how you have the time.