• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:05
CEST 01:05
KST 08:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster11Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2
StarCraft 2
General
HSC 27 players & groups The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Jumy Talks: Dedication to SC2 in 2025, & more... Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 - 27th July 2025 $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1 SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series EWC 2025 Online Qualifiers (May 28-June 1, June 21-22)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Preserving Battlereports.com Where is effort ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - LB Round 4 & 5
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Social coupon sites UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Pro Gamers Cope with Str…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 728 users

31,500 Replays - A look at balance in Starcraft II - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 17 Next All
acrimoneyius
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States983 Posts
February 04 2012 14:35 GMT
#181
T must be cheesing the shit out of protoss to have winrates like that.
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
February 04 2012 14:35 GMT
#182
Hey Playhem guys. And the guys who run daily tourneys. All of you should get in contact with map makers to test there maps! I see you already were using Cloud Kingdom which is good.
lyrlian
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands257 Posts
February 04 2012 14:52 GMT
#183
On February 04 2012 23:35 -_- wrote:
Hey Playhem guys. And the guys who run daily tourneys. All of you should get in contact with map makers to test there maps! I see you already were using Cloud Kingdom which is good.


We do get in contact with mapmakers and leave them feedback through e-mail or here on TL (: It's up to them to actually do something with our data.
@lyrlian on twitter! Caster for ESET, WCS and various other events.
magnaflow
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1521 Posts
February 04 2012 14:53 GMT
#184
On February 04 2012 20:32 felisconcolori wrote:
People seem to be surprised by the "short" average of the games, but...

Watching various tournaments, it seems that the long "epic" games are less common than we tend to think. I mean, for the top level players, I'm surprised to see games that run for 30+ minutes - even when they are macro games without cheese. Granted, this is just perception and opinion. But players in tournaments shouldn't really be trying to draw games out - they have games to play, and if they can shorten their games leading to the finals they will be better off when the get towards the end of the tournament in terms of game fatigue. (People that slog their way through open brackets to get into the top 8 get props for me, especially when they show up to face "fresher" opponents that only were in pool play or were direct seeds.)

Also, since it's an "average" game length, you have to realize that the time for each game just means that there are more ,or shorter, "quick" games and fewer, or longer, "long" games. As even the pros can tell you, good cheese sometimes is an effective way of just bashing your way up to the point where you're playing opponents that will take all your skill to beat.

(Then again, my average personal game times are pretty short, but I'm faaar lower league and the first push from a 3rax can still end a game outright in 9 minutes.)



I believe the 10min average is based upon real minutes, not the Blizzard style.
Firkraag8
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1006 Posts
February 04 2012 14:57 GMT
#185
On February 04 2012 23:53 magnaflow wrote:
I believe the 10min average is based upon real minutes, not the Blizzard style.

Most definitely real time.

Blizzard needs to get rid of their silly in-game time, I really don't see the point. "Faster" is the default time for ladder so that's not an excuse either.
Too weird to live, too rare to die.
MHT
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1026 Posts
February 04 2012 15:06 GMT
#186
On February 04 2012 23:57 Firkraag8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2012 23:53 magnaflow wrote:
I believe the 10min average is based upon real minutes, not the Blizzard style.

Most definitely real time.

Blizzard needs to get rid of their silly in-game time, I really don't see the point. "Faster" is the default time for ladder so that's not an excuse either.

Should have done it from the beginning now its too late imo. All our timings and measurements are now in blizzardtime and would throw everyone off if it was changed now. Similar to what happened to APM it was wrong both before and after but now that they changed it, its useless because its not what we've become accustomed to.

And if these charts are in real time then it suddenly becomes hard to figure out how long the games really are because its not in the format we normally see them as.
CPTBadAss
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States594 Posts
February 04 2012 15:18 GMT
#187
Looooove the stats <3. Also, that word cloud is a lot of fun
I'll keep on struggling, 'cause that's the measure of a man | "That was the plan: To give him some hope, and then crush him" -Stephano
Tiazi
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands761 Posts
February 04 2012 15:19 GMT
#188
Nice post.

Tal'darim! ♥
"A brilliant yet deluded man once said, 'Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.' Gumiho is that agent of chaos." -monk
Purind
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Canada3562 Posts
February 04 2012 15:20 GMT
#189
On February 04 2012 17:27 godulous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2012 17:23 Roxy wrote:
More losing records for protoss
...not surprised

also, these statistics dont account for how gay tal'darim is for mirror matchups.


If it makes you feel any better, Protoss have a 100% win rate on Tal'Darim in PvP.


50%? One guy wins, one guy loses. If everyone 1 gas 4 gates on Tal Darim, then that should pull the 1 gas build stat closer to 50%.

Then again, maybe PvP Tal Darim lowers 2 gas win percentages.
Trucy Wright is hot
whatthefat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States918 Posts
February 04 2012 15:20 GMT
#190
Very interesting. I had no idea Dual Sight was so bad for Protoss.
SlayerS_BoxeR: "I always feel sorry towards Greg (Grack?) T_T"
Tortious_Tortoise
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States944 Posts
February 04 2012 15:24 GMT
#191
On February 05 2012 00:20 Purind wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2012 17:27 godulous wrote:
On February 04 2012 17:23 Roxy wrote:
More losing records for protoss
...not surprised

also, these statistics dont account for how gay tal'darim is for mirror matchups.


If it makes you feel any better, Protoss have a 100% win rate on Tal'Darim in PvP.


50%? One guy wins, one guy loses. If everyone 1 gas 4 gates on Tal Darim, then that should pull the 1 gas build stat closer to 50%.

Then again, maybe PvP Tal Darim lowers 2 gas win percentages.


Well I mean, Protoss will win 100% of the PvPs on Tal'Darim Altar. I think that was the joke.
Treating eSports as a social science since 2011; Credo: "The system is never wrong"-- Day9 Daily #400 Part 3
Firkraag8
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1006 Posts
February 04 2012 15:26 GMT
#192
On February 05 2012 00:06 MHT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2012 23:57 Firkraag8 wrote:
On February 04 2012 23:53 magnaflow wrote:
I believe the 10min average is based upon real minutes, not the Blizzard style.

Most definitely real time.

Blizzard needs to get rid of their silly in-game time, I really don't see the point. "Faster" is the default time for ladder so that's not an excuse either.

Should have done it from the beginning now its too late imo. All our timings and measurements are now in blizzardtime and would throw everyone off if it was changed now. Similar to what happened to APM it was wrong both before and after but now that they changed it, its useless because its not what we've become accustomed to.

And if these charts are in real time then it suddenly becomes hard to figure out how long the games really are because its not in the format we normally see them as.

Better late than never, people will adapt quicker than you think.
Too weird to live, too rare to die.
Gyro_SC2
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada540 Posts
February 04 2012 15:28 GMT
#193
can you put the link for download all the replay ?
Nomad123
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
95 Posts
February 04 2012 15:37 GMT
#194
On February 05 2012 00:28 Gyro_SC2 wrote:
can you put the link for download all the replay ?



you really want to download 31,500 replays? :O
FoeHamr
Profile Joined December 2010
United States489 Posts
February 04 2012 15:41 GMT
#195
wow its strange that TA is the most balanced. Never would have guessed that,

Anyways thanks for sharing cool finds.
I got 99 problems and a Terran ain't one
Darkfrog
Profile Joined December 2011
Austria211 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-04 15:43:33
February 04 2012 15:43 GMT
#196
Like every other statistic you have to take it with a grain of salt but I feel like this is about as good of a picture as we are going to get. Not necessarily of the 0.0001% of players but like top 3% is good enough for me as an average joe starcraft player.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Stress
Profile Joined February 2011
United States980 Posts
February 04 2012 15:47 GMT
#197
This is awesome! You should try doing it every month though and see how it changes from month to month.
"Touch my gosu hands." - Tastosis | | fOrGG // MC // Jaedong
Smackzilla
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States539 Posts
February 04 2012 16:02 GMT
#198
On February 05 2012 00:47 Stress wrote:
This is awesome! You should try doing it every month though and see how it changes from month to month.


Yeah, it would be great to see some statistics by month and by patch. Very interesting stuff
You see a mousetrap. I see free cheese and a f&%*ing challenge - Scroobius Pip
-TesteR-
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1165 Posts
February 04 2012 16:10 GMT
#199
On February 04 2012 22:58 Mysti_ wrote:
Feels like TvP is more often T favored :o


ZvP also looks a bit Z favoured.
Thombur
Profile Joined January 2012
95 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-04 16:26:39
February 04 2012 16:22 GMT
#200
Hot damn that's almost unbelievably well balanced imo, not to say there are no balance issues but still, cool statistics to see.

Note that 5 moths ago = from september
Last real patch was 20 September 2011
The 8 November 2011 made only minor balance changes (lower EMP radius, lower protoss upgrade costs)
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 17 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 55m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft458
Livibee 161
NeuroSwarm 92
ProTech65
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 775
Aegong 62
LancerX 35
Dota 2
capcasts231
League of Legends
Grubby4129
Counter-Strike
summit1g8862
Stewie2K1246
Foxcn287
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox524
AZ_Axe78
Liquid`Ken53
Other Games
FrodaN2015
shahzam708
Maynarde115
ViBE113
monkeys_forever66
Mew2King61
Trikslyr32
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick416
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 59
• RyuSc2 50
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV565
• Ler48
League of Legends
• Doublelift4999
Other Games
• imaqtpie1300
• Scarra703
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
55m
The PondCast
10h 55m
Replay Cast
1d
HomeStory Cup
1d 11h
HomeStory Cup
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
SOOP
3 days
SHIN vs ByuN
HomeStory Cup
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV European League
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Rose Open S1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.