EPTOther than that, it will be too hard to reach a critical mass of BC's w/o getting stomped in the process. The critical mass does exist though.
Why Battlecruisers Arent Used Often In Top Tier? - Page 6
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ejozl
Denmark3472 Posts
Other than that, it will be too hard to reach a critical mass of BC's w/o getting stomped in the process. The critical mass does exist though. | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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jliu
282 Posts
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
It is actually ridiculously strong vs zerg, You have to have 30+ corruptors to counter 5 BC sice 10+ corruptors will die to snipes and yamato before the first BC falls. Also if you add vikings to the group the corruptors can't really wittle down BCs since they have low range. | ||
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
QxC did that vs whitra | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:04 Kluey wrote: Tier 3 units for both Protoss and Terran are very weak but strong tier 1 units make up for it. Wait, what? Mothership, Colossus, HT/Archon are all insanely strong. It's Stalkers/Sentries that get weak in lategame. Protoss relies on T3 units because their T1 units (apart from Chargelots) can't survive past midgame. | ||
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HackBenjamin
Canada1094 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:00 TheDwf wrote: Are you seriously telling us that Thors are efficient against BattleCruisers? Thors are terrible against BattleCruisers. Given equal upgrades, Thors deal something like 4 dps to them... edit: Removed, I was talking out my ass  | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
Battlecruiser 46.3 Marine (stim shield) 89.6 Seige tank 77.2 Banshee 43.6 These units got their overall effectiveness tweaked to account for fighting BCs: Stalker 51.9 Void ray (charged) 45.9 (53) Hydras 48.3 Corruptors 47.8 (counted the increased damage with the spell) + Show Spoiler + The effectiveness number doesnt mean anything by itself (since its the squre root of the units core stats multiplied and divided by costs) but it does have meaning if you compare it to the number of some other unit. If some unit's effectiveness number is twice better than some others than it basicly means you need to have twice less resources invested in that army to have it the same strength. There are a lot of exceptions though for which i didnt account for: speed and mobility, ability to shoot air, ground or both and others. So basicly the BCs are not much better or worse than the units supposed to counter it. But since other terran units have much better stats its prefferable to get those instead of BCs. | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
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blah_blah
346 Posts
On January 31 2012 11:03 Psilo wrote: The DPS on Battlecruisers is top 3 in the game, and that's without Yamato cannon. The DPS per cost isn't anywhere near top 3 in the game though. On February 01 2012 02:20 HackBenjamin wrote: BC = 400 Min 300 Gas Thor = 300 Min 200 Gas BC = Yamato Cannon - 300 dmg Thor = 250mm Strike Cannon - 500 dmg over 6 seconds BC = Air-to-Ground Range - 6 Thor = Ground-Air-Range - 10 I'm understanding your disbelief, but take into account the range advantage, the cost difference, and the abilities. Properly used, I firmly believe that the Thor can be used efficiently in this matchup to counter Battlecruisers. I think it's how you use it. Strike Cannon doesn't hit air, and battlecruisers have 3 base armor which literally cuts thor air DPS in half (already very low per cost against single targets). The thor air cooldown is also among the longest cooldowns in the game (in fact I think it is the longest, period). If you don't know these basic facts you probably shouldn't post in this thread. | ||
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HackBenjamin
Canada1094 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:28 blah_blah wrote: The DPS per cost isn't anywhere near top 3 in the game though. Strike Cannon doesn't hit air, and battlecruisers have 3 base armor which literally cuts thor air DPS in half (already very low per cost against single targets). The thor air cooldown is also among the longest cooldowns in the game (in fact I think it is the longest, period). If you don't know these basic facts you probably shouldn't post in this thread. You are correct I'll remove my posts | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:20 HackBenjamin wrote: BC = 400 Min 300 Gas Thor = 300 Min 200 Gas BC = Yamato Cannon - 300 dmg Thor = 250mm Strike Cannon - 500 dmg over 6 seconds BC = Air-to-Ground Range - 6 Thor = Ground-Air-Range - 10 I'm understanding your disbelief, but take into account the range advantage, the cost difference, and the abilities. Properly used, I firmly believe that the Thor can be used efficiently in this matchup to counter Battlecruisers. I think it's how you use it. Lol you can't use strike cannon against air but I think that thors can SITUATIONALLY cuonter BCs. If you have superior +1 upgrades to the BCs armor upgrades in large numbers thors can really kill bcs which tend to clump up alot. | ||
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Entteri
Finland108 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:20 HackBenjamin wrote: BC = 400 Min 300 Gas Thor = 300 Min 200 Gas BC = Yamato Cannon - 300 dmg Thor = 250mm Strike Cannon - 500 dmg over 6 seconds BC = Air-to-Ground Range - 6 Thor = Ground-Air-Range - 10 I'm understanding your disbelief, but take into account the range advantage, the cost difference, and the abilities. Properly used, I firmly believe that the Thor can be used efficiently in this matchup to counter Battlecruisers. I think it's how you use it. Thors are countered by BCs and assuming somewhat standard unit copositions countering thors is the only reason to ever build a BC. I don't know why you brought up strike cannon which can't even hit air. Also thor's range vs BCs is really pointless since they simply do so little damage that you dont have to care if you get hit. The reason is Thor's multiple low-damage anti-air missiles and BC's high armor. In TvT every other unit but thors are going to be killed by tanks and vikings. Tanks obviously kill thors too, but the problem is you can't take advantage of your air dominance without taking hits from thors. | ||
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chadissilent
Canada1187 Posts
On January 31 2012 11:08 Psilo wrote: Im not trolling. I watched all 152 matches in recent GSL up'and'downs and Code S ro.32 this month, and in only 2 games out of the 152, a fusion core was built. And one of those 2 was the hilarious accident that (Gumiho i think?) did, when he was meaning to build a factory in that spot. The recent terran GSL play is the reason for this thread. That was vileIllusion vs FXOLucky in IPL TAC, not GSL. The most recent ONOG finals, vileIllusion and Kas got into a long game on Bel-shir and after a long base trade/stabilization period, Kas busted out a few BCs to snipe tanks and ended up winning the game. | ||
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yoigen
Germany369 Posts
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Entteri
Finland108 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:33 statikg wrote: Lol you can't use strike cannon against air but I think that thors can SITUATIONALLY cuonter BCs. If you have superior +1 upgrades to the BCs armor upgrades in large numbers thors can really kill bcs which tend to clump up alot. I'm pretty sure that BCs are still easily cost effecient against pure thors. With Yamato Cannon especially. Obviously they still lose if you clump them up on purpose, but anything is going to lose like that. Thors have their place in viking vs viking wars. They are good in viking thor vs viking BC fights, but that's simply because they allow your vikings to overpower his and counter those BCs. | ||
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aaycumi
England265 Posts
ZvT, 2 Corruptors to a BC is not considered worth it as Terrans have to push aggressively to deny additional expansions of Zerg how do BCs help this? PvT, mass Stalker is the standard, Marine Marauder is the standard counter how do BCs assist the high mobility and harass strength of MMM or the damage output of ghosts? Its just not the metagame style BCs dont fit in anywhere except for TvT. | ||
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Motoorhead
Poland67 Posts
BC cost >> Infestor cost. | ||
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acrimoneyius
United States983 Posts
Mass vikings are good against them, but vikings can't kill turrets...BC's can. Marine/Tank/Ghost in TvZ is so efficient that battlecruisers are almost a waste of money (but not necessarily bad, just very unnecessary). In PvT, feedback, voidrays, blink stalkers, etc, make them a less than ideal choice. Boxer vs HasuObs in the NASL is a classic example of why they are bad in the matchup. The new ability in HotS should revive their usage. | ||
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ArcticRaven
France1406 Posts
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