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On January 31 2012 07:00 Tobberoth wrote:
I wonder if the people claiming forfeiting is an acceptable part of the game would feel the same way if MVP decided to forfeit in a GSL final vs Nestea. Probably not.
it being acceptable; and the fans being happy, are two completely unrelated things. i think its acceptable for stephano to forfeit, but I am upset that I couldnt watch kas demolish him.
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On January 31 2012 07:00 Tobberoth wrote:
I wonder if the people claiming forfeiting is an acceptable part of the game would feel the same way if MVP decided to forfeit in a GSL final vs Nestea. Probably not.
Irrelevant. If you're in the GSL any other tournament is probably lesser in Korea, and that said other tournament would be the one MVP would most likely forfeit.
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It is regrettable that Stephano forfeited and I can sympathize with the tournament organizers. I think that they made a good decision by moving him to fourth place and not paying him 2nd place prize money.
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He forfeited. At least he didn't drone rush.
Respect to Stephano and to the French.
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This is an unfortunate situation, but something that was bound to happen eventually, I think, given the current abundance of tournaments.
There's no doubt in my mind that Stephano should have honored his agreement and participated in the finals, regardless of his state of mind, how tired he was, or what else was going on; but at the same time, I can definitely sympathize with him. Players have a lot of pressure on them to perform, and they don't always plan well for themselves; it's not surprising that Stephano got in over his head and reacted badly.
Sooo...hopefully, we can take from this two things. Players should take more care about their schedules, and they should also have the professionalism to perform when they have agreed to perform...and the community should be aware of both of these things.
Moving on...
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On January 31 2012 07:02 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:54 arQ wrote:On January 31 2012 05:49 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 05:46 cyclone25 wrote:
What is the purpose of this thread? The incident has been discussed a lot on the ONOG thread. The purpose of the thread is to provide information that summarizes a bunch of sources. Do you really feel its more appropriate for users to dig through 200+ pages to find information in a live report thread? Besides, this thread includes information and links that you can't find in the ONOG LR thread anyway. Since when is more information, especially information that is easily accessible, and reporting with actual sources a bad thing? Are you serious? You cant be this naive. First of all I dont think I ever have seen TL themselves create a thread about a small little incident like this, and put it at the top of Community News. Why now? Second, the obvious incredible over-publicity of this tiny incident creates nothing but unnecessary drama, and unjustified hate towards Stephano to the point that members of this site now call out for "punishment", "banning from more tournaments", and even racist slurs against his nation. You still think this is a good way to go? This is newsworthy because of the reaction and circumstances surrounding it. It's not a "tiny incident" it's the finals of a 3k community driven barcraft funded event. It's the opposite of a "tiny incident" and if you look at the community reaction you'd see that. Misinformation, aka people speculating what happened and why is what is bad, and this thread is to clarify that so people didn't have to look around to multiple sites and dig through a 200 page LR thread.
Hot_Bid I think you've justified your position enough and should just start warning/banning people that continue this charade with you
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Reading these comments about how this isn't news worthy is funny. Clearly if it causes this big a stir in the community its news worthy. Anything that happens in the pro scene is news worthy with varying degrees of worthiness depending on how much the community cares about it. The job of the reporter is to report, not to try and steer the community to a specific point of view by censoring.
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On January 31 2012 06:56 zdfgucker wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:52 andis35 wrote:On January 31 2012 06:49 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 06:46 magnaflow wrote:On January 31 2012 06:45 Hot_Bid wrote:
I don't understand how people can say its hypocrisy that there is no thread about Tyler when if it was anyone else who forfeits first round (literally anyone, doesn't have to be Liquid) we wouldn't make a thread about it.
To summarize:
1. Anyone forfeiting first round, no thread, not newsworthy
2. One of the best foreigners forfeiting invitational right before finals, yes thread So Tylers excuse is far worse then Stephano's and nobody wants to come out and say it because all the hate will get directed towards one of your team members, I get it. Honestly I have no idea why he forfeited, I can't imagine he'd say "I had to go out and kill puppies" or something, I assume it's for some reason, the absolute worst it could be is "I didn't feel like it." You take off your tin foil conspiracy hat now. But Stephano had a reason too, and only because he was deeper in tournament this threat was made? Does not sound reasonable tbh. There's a difference between forfeiting the finals and forfeiting first round. If you can't see that, then stop discussing because we hit a dead end. Especially since that was 100% Stephano's fault for scheduling two tournaments on the same day, delaying this whole tournament first and then embarrassing the casters, Kas and the viewers like that.
Between the stuff I've read on reddit and TL it honestly shocks me that people are having such a hard time understanding this point. The problem isn't just that stephano forfeited a series, it's that he forfeited the finals of a tournament. I mean, really, come on guys... it's okay to like him as a person and/or a player and still be able to admit that's a dick move.
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ONOG would have been just another subpar, un-interesting online tournament that nobody would have watched and/or remembered if it wasnt for Stephano and Kas participating. The production was horrible, with a laggy stream, casters that prided themselves in NOT watching GSL and saying stupind non-sense all the time, and with scheduling issues.
Stephano did not act really professionally but most people over-react to this so much, it's unbelievable. Gosh, the kid was probably just sleeping over his keyboard. Want to punish him? Dont invite him again. But he landed top 2, he should stay top 2, dont invent rules to demote him to the 4th place because you dont like him.
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On January 31 2012 07:00 Laurens wrote:
if it's 2:45 AM and he has to wait for a 3rd place game, then play a BO7...
vs a macro player like Kas that'd take until at least 4 AM >.>
I suppose if Kas can stay up for it, so can Stephano, but still..
Why the hell did he sign up for the tournament than if he knew it might run that late?
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I'm pretty sure plenty of players play anyway, even though they are jet-lagged. If they lose, oh well.
Better than having too much pride to play sleepy.
I'm sure any player who has tried their ass off not to tilt from jet-lag would think this is rediculous.
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Stephano made a commitment; he participated in SCAN and ONOG, causing delays in the first place. Stephano himself has said that he's in it for the money, but that doesn't mean you enter as many as possible hoping to get as much out of each as possible. Nope. WIth a small-ish punishment (compared to say a ban or fine or immediate DQ) next time, Stephano will go, geez I guess ONOG and SCAN might cause me to have to play for too many hours in row. Sorry SCAN, i gotta decline.
Imagine being the tournament organizer. Its a big boner killer when your finals never materialize. Its the finals: the culmination of a player pool- the tip top (theoretically; lol gsl) of who you invited. NOPE. Dropping 2 places for being a massive boner-killer I think is pretty ok... in fact I don't think he should boner kill at all...
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On January 31 2012 06:58 Apom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:46 fourColo wrote:
Professionalism: (n) a state in which someone should do what ever I want them to do for pretty much no reason. So much truth in these words. I regret that Stephano forfeited in the finals of a $3K tournament. I regret that the tournament organizers enforced a penalty that was not pre-determined, but established on spot. I regret that Tyler forfeited without without so much as a reason, regardless of the round he played in. Above all, I regret that "Team Liquid ESPORTS" considers any of this newsworthy.
You're joking right? Any time any player overtly does something disrespectful to the community or during a tournament, it's clearly newsworthy. Naniwa, Coca, Stephano, etc.
And for good reason too. There need to be standards and players need to learn to follow rules and respect protocols. That's how e-sports is going to flourish.
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On January 31 2012 07:00 Laurens wrote:
if it's 2:45 AM and he has to wait for a 3rd place game, then play a BO7...
vs a macro player like Kas that'd take until at least 4 AM >.>
I suppose if Kas can stay up for it, so can Stephano, but still..
Minor point, but the event organizers offered him to start the game while the 3rd place game was played and then cast from replay.
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On January 31 2012 07:04 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:00 Laurens wrote:
if it's 2:45 AM and he has to wait for a 3rd place game, then play a BO7...
vs a macro player like Kas that'd take until at least 4 AM >.>
I suppose if Kas can stay up for it, so can Stephano, but still.. Why the hell did he sign up for the tournament than if he knew it might run that late?
Maybe not THAT late, most of the time, late mean 1am....
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Come on forfeiting a final? Finals are by far the most imporant match of a tournament and the one people tend to remember. I think stephano's action was really disrespectful to the ppl that actually put a lot of effort in organising and funding these tournaments. If he was not sure he could play both tournaments or isn't willing to play tired or simply doesn't want to underperfom he shouldn't have accepted both inviations to start with. Also i don't get how naniwa got so much hate for throwing away a meaningless game yet stepahno forfeiting a final because he was tired is allright to so many people. Just because it isn't a big tournament like mlg or gsl doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people working hard to put it together.
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On January 31 2012 07:00 Tobberoth wrote:
I wonder if the people claiming forfeiting is an acceptable part of the game would feel the same way if MVP decided to forfeit in a GSL final vs Nestea. Probably not.
The hell? If MVP's CTS started acting up and he forfeited would you complain? Really? I guess he should know better than to enter tournaments when he knows he has CTS.
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On January 31 2012 07:01 Melange wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:53 Chill wrote:
I think this needs to be addressed by tournament organizers in the future. Major tournaments should make it clear that forfeit matches will incur predetermined penalties. Then everyone is completely aware of the pros and cons. Exactly. If people expect the players to act professional, then the tournament organizers must be professional as well. By this I mean clearly delineating rules dealing with situations such as this. Tournaments must address the consequences of a player forfeiting. Many people here are blaming Stephano for only thinking of himself and disrespecting the fans/organizers. The tournament was not a professional one if they did not account for forfeitures, so why should Stephano have to act professional in response. A player's right to forfeit for ANY reason is absolute. They alone can decide whether they are in good enough shape to play. Stephano did not complain about not getting his 2nd place money. He accepted WHATEVER consequences the tournament would've given to him. What if they completely disqualified him? Would he have complained? Unlikely. He couldve have easily left every game of the finals, taken $1350, and left the viewers with a terrible finals series. Instead, he forfeited his spot and let the tournament organizers decide what happens next. The crux of this situation is that Stephano put too much on his plate, as EVERYONE has done in the past. He's likely never put himself in this situation before and he'll likely not do it again. That's the end of it, there's no need for bickering over one mistake.
Instead of arguing with a respected member of the community in capitals, perhaps you should first read the two threads on the topic. You'll find your points covered and quite mistaken.
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Don't really see the big deal in this. I asume he was really tired, since there was quite a bit of money on the line. And i've been really tired my self, and i asume most of you have been as well, and i can say that i would not be able to play a game in that state. When you can't even keep your eyes open, then what are you gonna do?
I do agree, though, that it was sort of unproffesional to schedule 2 relatively big online tournaments on the same day. But come on, hes still a kid, and everyone makes misstakes. Hopefully he learned something from it for the next time.
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thread posted at 5:30 a.m. KST.
17 pages of "discussion" at 7:10 a.m. KST.
clearly not newsworthy. /sarcasm/
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EPT
