Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm pretty sure that the Pheonix change is just a temporary solution until HotS comes out. Still think Carriers will go out and Tempest will go in.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

February 10 2012 19:53 GMT

#342

On February 11 2012 04:47 Spicy_Curry wrote:
carriers need scarabs

and i agree here ! air to air scarabs (interceptor with a special color so the opponent can snipe it) and the aoe issue is solved !

Mohdoo

United States15690 Posts

February 10 2012 20:27 GMT

#343

On February 11 2012 04:49 HaXXspetten wrote:
Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm pretty sure that the Pheonix change is just a temporary solution until HotS comes out. Still think Carriers will go out and Tempest will go in.

Blizzard has never been the type to do things like this and they didn't specify that this was the case. I'm going to assume that this Phoenix change is here to stay ^_^

miniwheats

Canada187 Posts

February 17 2012 20:14 GMT

#344

Even when HOTS comes out they are still going to update WOL (so they have said). Have seperate multiplayer games sucks IMO(splits players) but doesn't that mean the carrier will always exist in WOL?

llKenZyll

United States853 Posts

February 17 2012 20:24 GMT

#345

I would like to point out that the Carrier has way too many hard counters coming from all three races. Blink stalkers, corruptors and vikings. Corruptors and Vikings are already in play if the protoss has chosen to go down the colossus tech path. This means that the corruptors and vikings are already there, the zerg/terran just has to produce more of them.
Second, mass corruptor will deal with any protoss-oriented gameplay. Just targeting the carriers then maxing on Hydra/Ling will do the trick, simply put.
The carrier also costs way too much. You may think "herp derp we can just patch this and make it cost less". Well if that is done, then we have dug ourselves into a hole because carrier all ins would become more popular, making it a gimmicky unit such as the banshee or the void ray.
As terran, marine can counter the carrier easily. Stimming under the carriers and target firing will kill a carrier very fast with the DPS of 50-60 marines.
I also realize that the carrier has not been patched or balanced at all, because carriers are splash-damage dealers, a role that the Templar, Colossus and archon all fulfill. The reason those three are used over the carrier are simply because they come from Robos and Gateways, which are used in 90% of protoss games. They also cost less, take less time to make and they arent so deep in supply.
The carrier also has a fundamental flaw in which it is way too slow. Any terran or zerg can use drop play or nydus play in order to abuse the immobility of the carrier. The only way to deal with that is to make a lot of cannons everywhere, like a Zerg does. The problem with this is that getting to the stage where you can poop out 20 cannons like it is no big deal is very hard as a Protoss player. The fact that you even need to create another thing just to deal with a carrier flaw is flat out silly. It's different than when a zerg goes Infestor/Brood because those units are very gas dependant, making the Zerg have a lot of left over minerals. They have no idea what to spend it on, so they go mass spines in order to make them more safe to attacks.
I know that carriers cost a lot of gas, so you will always have a lot of minerals but those minerals are used elsewhere such as Warp Prism harass, expansions, pylons, gateways/stargates.
If you really want this piece of crap still in the game, then that is slipping my mind because I see no hope for this unit and no reason to keep it in other than "its iconic lolol". Hydras and Carriers are iconic, but fucking hell they both suck ultralisk dick! Which, by the way, sucks as well.

sinii

England989 Posts

February 17 2012 20:27 GMT

#346

Iv no idea what Blizz want to do, however how stupidly awesome would it be if they just removed the collosus and put the reaver back in?

As they say. Collosus/Carrier rolls overlap, so just remove the boring one of the two, and balance it out with some changes.

1st_Panzer_Div.

United States621 Posts

February 17 2012 20:47 GMT

#347

Reaver would be comically imbalanced based on the new unit clumping, especailly worker system. Or it would be comically useless as it would need to take 3-4 scarabs to kill workers.

An air-to-air scarab for the carrier is a totally awesome idea however. Except that collossi+carrier would beat everything.

Nevermind, it's an awesome idea.

NoobSkills

United States1598 Posts

February 17 2012 21:04 GMT

#348

Is he suggesting that we Occupy Blizzard? If so we should get a list going of things that should have been in the game a long time ago.

Kharnage

Australia920 Posts

February 18 2012 01:09 GMT

#349

On February 18 2012 05:47 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Reaver would be comically imbalanced based on the new unit clumping, especailly worker system. Or it would be comically useless as it would need to take 3-4 scarabs to kill workers.

An air-to-air scarab for the carrier is a totally awesome idea however. Except that collossi+carrier would beat everything.

Nevermind, it's an awesome idea.

This is also the problem with the tempest. Imagine 6 colossus and 8(?) tempest and a the rest gateway units. How do you kill that? If 8 tempest can 1-shot a corrupter or viking the colossus will never die.

Honeybadger

United States821 Posts

February 18 2012 07:09 GMT

#350

The colossus needs to be reworked if the carrier is to become a viable transition, really. As it is, the terran already has the production to react to any amount of carriers properly.

The colossus is the reason protoss is so monumentally dull and is the sole reason for the deathball. Get rid of it and give those protoss jerks something else! I personally want to fight buffed carriers, the matchup would suddenly become much, much cooler.

Bulkers

Poland509 Posts

February 18 2012 07:16 GMT

#351

To fix carriers Blizzard would have to change Viking and Corruptor, because they hard counters them very cost effectively, and thats not gonna happen. So instead they gonna replace it, and I think its good idea.

XenoX101

Australia729 Posts

February 18 2012 18:36 GMT

#352

In my opinion as well as the carrier being buffed slightly, the interceptor's health really needs a buffed. In Brood War attacking interceptors was bad because you would never kill them all and the carriers would just rebuild them. Where-as in SC2 the interceptors melt ever so quickly that it's almost preferred to attack them over the carriers themselves. Try it in unit tester and be amazed at how quickly interceptors die to say 20 hydras.

tarodotoxin

United States110 Posts

February 18 2012 18:38 GMT

#353

the phonenix isnt a solution for mutas, its a complete counter....

Xiphos

Canada7507 Posts

February 18 2012 18:43 GMT

#354

The DEVs can totally insert Reavers in SC2, they are just not trying hard enough. Each scarab is a blob of energy that can sustain itself for a certain period of time before it disappears. So the argument that it will be broken is fallacious as they just need to add a time for the scarab shot. The shot can only explode if it right on the target. This will add more dynamics into the game because it forces the opponents to strategically place their buildings for anti-scarab shot and this will bring more micro options to block the scarab with your units. Much better than the A-Move collosus.

Stratos_speAr

United States6959 Posts

February 18 2012 18:56 GMT

#355

On February 18 2012 16:16 Bulkers wrote:
To fix carriers Blizzard would have to change Viking and Corruptor, because they hard counters them very cost effectively, and thats not gonna happen. So instead they gonna replace it, and I think its good idea.

I really don't think this is the case. I feel like the OP made two great points - let the Carrier attack while moving (again) and increase their speed slightly. I've never seen Vikings as the be-all ultimate counter to Carriers - Carriers have a long range and can take out a lot of Vikings very quickly, so it's not like Vikings just completely faceroll a group of Carriers unless you have a LOT of Vikings. Corruptors do take out Carriers very well, but if Carriers can attack/move a little faster combined with the lack of Corruption (which I think is a BIG change) in HotS, this will change quite a bit. I also agree that the Carrier is a cultural icon for the Protoss like the Siege Tank/Marine/Battlecruiser are for Terran and Zerglings/Hydralisks/Mutalisks are for Zerg.

i)awn

United States189 Posts

February 18 2012 19:39 GMT

#356

There is a lot that can be done to bring the carrier into the game; though nothing is guaranteed to work. One thing I would like to see on the carrier though is the initial attack range increase. I think blizzard can take advantage of the fact that the carrier is almost never used and just throw in some interesting changes and see how things go.

chestnutcc

India429 Posts

February 19 2012 01:54 GMT

#357

In honour of the carrier, I humbly present these two replays I found of the mighty warship decimating the heathen races:
The Dominion is driven from Shakuras by the carrier
The Swarm bows to the carrier

GPThunder

Canada53 Posts

March 04 2012 02:12 GMT

#358

GSL SPOILER
+ Show Spoiler +

Genius tries to turtle up to mass carrier on 3 base while keeping drg in the dark on his tech. Regardless of how the match ended, the crowd absolutely went mental when Genius teched carrier. The community loves the carrier. If the reaction from the crowd was not enough to warrant the carrier, I don't know what is. We need the to keep the carrier and hopefully make it more viable.

ODKStevez

Ireland1225 Posts

March 04 2012 02:16 GMT

#359

The new phoenix upgrade is a good sign as it encourages more Protoss players to go for the Fleet Beacon for the upgrade rather than just for the Mothership. It may allow carriers to come out to play again but as they already stated, Carriers just don't fill the role they were meant to fill.

I love the carrier and I hope they just upgrade it to do what they need.

Radison

Poland44 Posts

March 04 2012 02:30 GMT

#360

It's funny how every change Blizzard made to the game compared to BW made it worse...

.

I wolud say - remove collosai, bring reaver back, bring old carrier back. With plus damage to air units (ground units would need to be kited using cliffs). Interceptors should have more health.

This said, I doubt Blizzard is gonna admit that collosai were a mistake.