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Active: 7929 users

We Must Fight For The Carrier - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
January 26 2012 21:11 GMT
#201
"Carrier has Arrived" has been the sound my phone plays when receiving a text message for several years and several phones. There's no chance I'm changing it to "Tempest has Arrived"

I really hope the Carrier sticks around- but people need to realize the colossus-carrier relationship is not the issue at hand here remotely.
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
Champi
Profile Joined March 2010
1422 Posts
January 26 2012 21:15 GMT
#202
I agree.

The carrier needs to stay. end of story

they havnt even made an effort to patch it, instead they wanna bring in their newly invented tempest bullshit

theres some things u shouldnt mess with dustin browder, the carrier is one of these things.

if you remove it you will regret it, the carrier is the face of starcraft. make a god damn effort please.
Vansetsu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1454 Posts
January 26 2012 21:16 GMT
#203
I am in the fullest support of NOT getting rid of the carrier. There needs to be at least a patch or something, and getting rid of it to make space for some shitty wannabe corsair is not acceptable.
Only by overcoming many obstacles does a river become - デイヴィ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ド
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
January 26 2012 21:19 GMT
#204
if carriers had +2 armor built into their shields as well as their armor they could easily weather the first volley or two to deploy interceptors and then pull back. and heal.
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
January 26 2012 21:20 GMT
#205
On January 27 2012 04:58 Arisen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 04:28 infinity2k9 wrote:
Oh and i thought maybe peoples desire for the reaver and the carrier could be combined... wouldn't the carrier's interceptors changing to single powerful air to air AOE shots as a counter to mutas be quite interesting?


No; this is basically the tepest. This is the very epitome of non-interesting game design. Unit A complely shits on unit B so you might as well not make unit B. This is the reason a lot of zergs won't make hydras. He gets 1 or 2 colossus out and you wasted a ton of resources on something that's about to get shit on. THe tepest and this idea would just make it so you can't make more than a handful of muta per game.

This design philosophy is seen all over SC2 and I hope to not see any more in the expansions.


No because the tempest does not have production of it's shots.. and is nothing like a reaver. That's precisely what it would NOT be. You wouldn't be able to just waste shots a-moving if you produced the ammo.
Chewie
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark708 Posts
January 26 2012 21:37 GMT
#206
My biggest problem with the SC2 Carrier:

It looks immensely cooler from the side.
xpldngmn
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria265 Posts
January 26 2012 22:40 GMT
#207
+1

Give it a shield-battery-like ability.
Non-native speaker, those prepositions are so hard to know.
Mikelius
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany517 Posts
January 26 2012 22:51 GMT
#208
What I would love to see on a PTR is making the Carrier have the same stats and AI it did in BW and see how it feels in SC2. I don't think it's fair to say "The Carrier sucks, let's remove it." when it is actually worse than it was in BW and there has been literally nothing done to it to make it better.
Less QQ, more PewPew
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
January 26 2012 22:55 GMT
#209
On January 27 2012 05:36 BeeNu wrote:
Can we fight for the Lurker while we're at it?


Why not? Swarm host is exactly a crawling brood lord. Atleast the lurker has a different attack.
starleague forever
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-26 22:59:05
January 26 2012 22:56 GMT
#210
They haven't even tried to make it viable as far as I remember. At least they tweaked a few times the thor, ultra, BC...

I'm not gonna buy HoTS anyway, but the carrier should stay.

PD: With the nexus recall ability the slow-ass carrier would be able to actually leave a lost fight or when all the interceptors are going down.
Revolutionist fan
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-26 23:40:55
January 26 2012 23:03 GMT
#211
if we can make the carrier a vital part of the deathball, everyone would be happy? I wouldn't. I don't want another a-move death ball unit. The carrier is nothing like it was in SCBW and it can never be thanks to the improved AI and mechanics of SC2.

Think of how you'd use the carrier if it was buffed. It would be a death ball unit. It would be a big risk to tech to carriers instead of colossus/templar and wouldn't add much value to your ground army (with forge upgrades). If you TRIED to make it a mid-game unit I guarantee you die to a good scout. If it doesn't add mid-game value then all it can be is a late game investment to turtle on. HOLY CHECK, I thought that's what you guys didn't want?

Look at how blizzard is looking at HotS. They want less units in a death ball, this is what the replicant, the oracle and tempest are designed as. Protoss has probably the most units that do well in a death ball because most of them are ground based and all benefit from forge upgrades, so it's ok to me that their 3 new units don't add to this. The tempest to me is NOT a death ball unit (it may very well turn out to be one) but I feel like it's going to serve mostly as a defensive muta deterrent for the late game, and with recall you'll be able to use ONE of these for the entire defense of your all your bases.

and I don't agree that you need a speed buff for carriers. You complain that infestors allow brood lords to escape, well storm does the same
Antares_
Profile Joined October 2011
Poland269 Posts
January 26 2012 23:11 GMT
#212
Carrier definetly needs to stay. But also requires a few buffs. I am playing Terran, was just trying out Mecha in TvP and was camping in the middle of The Shattered Temple, had quite a lot of Siege Tanks, some Ghosts, Banshees, 1 raven and 5 Thors. Then the cloud of Carriers appeared and I was about to type in "GG" but then I lol'd... Thors literally two-shoted all interceptors, so I had time to build enough vikings to win the game. Then I've checked replays. It seems like 5 Thors counter 12 Carriers, and in my opinion something's broken here.
If you make no mistake, yet still lose - you don't understand the game. Spiral out, keep going.
Fleshcut
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany592 Posts
January 26 2012 23:20 GMT
#213
I don't see the point of fighting for a unit nobody uses just because it was good in BW or something...
Kharnage
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia920 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-26 23:34:33
January 26 2012 23:33 GMT
#214
The carrier as it stands is a very very expensive broodlord.
Not only is it more expensive to build, but it costs more supply and has ongoing costs to keep it functioning and lacks the broodlings blocking ability to help keep units back from it.
In a nut shell, it sucks.

The carrier needs to be faster and micro-able and the interceptors need to be stronger and stay in combat while the carrier is manoeuvring.

Reading the latest battle net blog on balance it looks like their hots testing isn't going particularly well. If they are looking at buffing the pheonix to deal with mutas before hots and keeping the carrier as was implied, then they are probably ditching the tempest. Honestly I can't see them keeping the replicator, and if someone can tell me how terran is meant to open with anything other than MM+ stim vs a protoss going 2gate robo observer, replicator that would be great.

The carrier needs to be re purposed so that it integrates into the protoss army.
Should it be an AA unit?
Should we be getting 3 colossus and 2 carriers to protect them from vikings?.
Should interceptors also function like pdd's sacrificing themselves to eat viking volleys (that would be pretty cool actually)?
Or should we be thinking there are 2 protoss armies, robo and stargate like terran bio and mech where we pursue one tech path?

The problem right now is that for what it is the carrier costs waaaay too much. it really is very similar to a broodlord except totally shit and expensive.

On January 27 2012 08:20 Fleshcut wrote:
I don't see the point of fighting for a unit nobody uses just because it was good in BW or something...

The concept of the carrier is great. It's the execution that sucks.
TheRealPaciFist
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1049 Posts
January 26 2012 23:49 GMT
#215
Adding a Shield Battery ability to the Carrier would be neat. It could potentially provide an alternative to the ghost / high temp battle by restoring the shields taken from EMP, and it could potentially add to micro, if say it was an AoE skill that you have to target and it could be used on interceptors. If there were fewer interceptors but were more unit-like, like broodlings, they might be able to do something with that too... but yeah I like the shield battery idea, although it might be hard to balance
Second favorite strategy game of all time: Starcraft. First: Go (aka Wei Qi, Paduk, or Igo)
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-27 00:02:49
January 27 2012 00:00 GMT
#216
hell giving carrier hardened shields alone would make it pretty damn good and a definite alternative to collosus.

collosus: high damage high risk

Carrier: longer lasting against anti collosus units, more maneuverable, no splash but high damage.

hardened shields would reduce viking damage against it by like 8-10 a volley per viking, and vs corruptors by 10-16 damage per volley per corruptor. it'd encourage good placement, and protecting them, as well as weaving them in and out on combat (to get shield regen). it wouldn't do much vs void rays, but it'd reduce stalker damage a little.

plus it'd make even more synergy with carrier/sentry, which allows guardian shield to protect interceptors, and carriers pretty well.
MandoRelease
Profile Joined October 2010
France374 Posts
January 27 2012 00:27 GMT
#217
I don't really mind the carrier being gone. Because I didn't play the original starcraft, I have no attachment whatsoever to the unit.
From what I understand the carrier was a symbol for the original starcraft, but SC2 being a different game, I find it OK to remove it. It's not being remove from the original starcraft, it's just removed from a game in which it is heavily underused though balanced (that's right, I said it). And in order to replace it by a unit we'll see more of, hopefully.
So I don't really understand, nobody uses the carrier, why keep it ? + Show Spoiler +
It's a rethorical question, because nothing in this topic has convinced me so far.
When you play the game of drones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground. Huge IMLosirA fan.
DrGreen
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland708 Posts
January 27 2012 00:33 GMT
#218
occupy blizzard anyone?

I would delete colossus over carrier any time.
Biggun69
Profile Joined December 2010
187 Posts
January 27 2012 00:38 GMT
#219
Blizzard should definately replace the colossus with a reaver style unit and improve the micro ability of the carrier.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
January 27 2012 00:39 GMT
#220
On January 27 2012 09:27 MandoRelease wrote:
I don't really mind the carrier being gone. Because I didn't play the original starcraft, I have no attachment whatsoever to the unit.
From what I understand the carrier was a symbol for the original starcraft, but SC2 being a different game, I find it OK to remove it. It's not being remove from the original starcraft, it's just removed from a game in which it is heavily underused though balanced (that's right, I said it). And in order to replace it by a unit we'll see more of, hopefully.
So I don't really understand, nobody uses the carrier, why keep it ? + Show Spoiler +
It's a rethorical question, because nothing in this topic has convinced me so far.

the main stupidity i see in removing the carrier, is because "there is no reason to build it over the collosus" according to kim, and so if thats the reason, why not just do something about the collosus make the collosus start dealing damage faster (not overal dps increase but make it a little more front loaded) and take away some of it's speed so that it needs to be used in prisms make it have more shields than regular armor, stuff like that removes the role overlap alot.
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