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On January 26 2012 06:59 meltingmykohchoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 04:53 The Final Boss wrote:On January 26 2012 04:38 meltingmykohchoo wrote:On January 26 2012 04:34 NMHU. wrote:
''Terran Can’t Beat Protoss''
''Ghost EMP is Too Weak''
As a protoss player, I only have to say : ''lol''
- NMHU. Thank you  hmmm Terran cant beat protoss lololol Emp... Same aoe as storm. Does damage instantly, impossible to dodge also takes energy in aoe / feed back only does 1 unit and costs 2/3rds of the gas. ghosts take 75 gas to tech to. (tech lab n ghost academy) Fuck lets all just play terran!! Ghosts take 40 seconds to build. High Templar take 5. Ghosts can only build from a Barracks that has a Tech Lab attached to it. High Templar can build anywhere within a pylon radius. EMP does a good job against HT tech--if you micro better than the Protoss--while Ghosts are much less useful against builds in which the Protoss gets Colossi sooner. If a Terran tries to get Ghosts, and the Protoss gets Colossi, timing attacks off of two bases can be devastating because there's almost no way that the Terran can have Vikings to deal with Colossi and upgrades to deal with the massive army. High Templar, on the other hand, do very well against everything in the Terran arsenal. Against Ghosts, you have to micro better, but Ghosts are not a "hard counter" to HTs; it all comes down to who controls better (unless Protoss makes a mistake, in which case that's their fault). Not only do Storm and Archon deal well with any sort of bio push, but Feedback devastates all Terran tech. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecruisers, Medivacs. All of them get demolished by Feedback in the same way that Snipe can demolish Zerg tech late game; the difference: Feedback is a one click wonder that takes next to nothing to do. EMP targets ground, meaning that in an HT vs Ghost 1v1 fight, while the EMP can hit first, for all intents and purposes the Terran has to control far better and control well. The Protoss just has to click to Feedback the Ghost, then it flies to the Ghost and the second it's in range, the Ghost dies. Plus, if the HT has 150+ energy, then the Feedback is near impossible to stop, even if it does not do the killing blow to the Ghost. Try putting your High Templar in a Warp Prism; it's not the hardest micro, it's not like controlling a big Chargelot/Colossi ball is that difficult, and frankly it almost guarantees that you will get off some storms. Good storms in conjunction with Chargelots will beat Terran. LOL high templar take 5 seconds to build MYBIG FAT HAIRY ANUS!... u know protoss have the reverse build time mechanic right???? U still have to macro correctly and wait for your warp ins and cool downs. Yes, ghosts are much less useful against collosi But they require a commitment of 50 gas and 150 minerals to tech to. It is extremely easy to outmicro templar with ghosts if they clump up and if u see weakness emp. If they are being smart and putting an obs over ur army sending out 1 or 2 templar at a time? just snipe or send tiny bits of your army to kill those templar. It's extremely easy to snipe templar without getting fed back u just gotta micro as well as a plat but have diamondish game awareness. ur argument about feed back is invalid... the feed back barely does anything against thors and battle cruisers, but if you're going mass banshee or raven, of course im gonna get templar to counter them... What kind of idiot wouldnt get templar or pheonix to counter mass banshee? thats the point of a counter... And you're saying shit about controlling a chargelot colossi ball being easy.. u know.. protoss and zerg units are much harder to micro than marine marauder ghost viking... 1 marine marauder medivacs, 2 ghosts, 3 vikings. The late game protoss go something like this 1. zeal sentry 2. ht 3. collosus. 4. stalkers. We have to cast forcefields, storms, micro the collosus back run the zealots back when u start kiting. while all u do is scan. emp a move w/ stim step shoot step shoot step shoot step shoot step shoot. You're fuckin conclusion to your post is so stupid as well... Good storms in conjunction with chargelots will beat terran... THANK YOU CAPTAIN FUCKING OBVIOUS. Hmm I bet good macro with good micro and just overall superior mechanics will beat an opponent and I guess good emps with good viking control will also rape a protoss anally. you're a f ucking stupid piece of shit. just saying... last 2 seasons i was top 25 masters toss (this season have been slacking on sc2 because of college so about 50ish). Also mid masters terran and mid masters zerg. Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 06:15 The Final Boss wrote:On January 26 2012 05:20 flowSthead wrote:On January 26 2012 04:53 The Final Boss wrote:On January 26 2012 04:38 meltingmykohchoo wrote:On January 26 2012 04:34 NMHU. wrote:
''Terran Can’t Beat Protoss''
''Ghost EMP is Too Weak''
As a protoss player, I only have to say : ''lol''
- NMHU. Thank you hmmm Terran cant beat protoss lololol Emp... Same aoe as storm. Does damage instantly, impossible to dodge also takes energy in aoe / feed back only does 1 unit and costs 2/3rds of the gas. ghosts take 75 gas to tech to. (tech lab n ghost academy) Fuck lets all just play terran!! Ghosts take 40 seconds to build. High Templar take 5. Ghosts can only build from a Barracks that has a Tech Lab attached to it. High Templar can build anywhere within a pylon radius. EMP does a good job against HT tech--if you micro better than the Protoss--while Ghosts are much less useful against builds in which the Protoss gets Colossi sooner. If a Terran tries to get Ghosts, and the Protoss gets Colossi, timing attacks off of two bases can be devastating because there's almost no way that the Terran can have Vikings to deal with Colossi and upgrades to deal with the massive army. High Templar, on the other hand, do very well against everything in the Terran arsenal. Against Ghosts, you have to micro better, but Ghosts are not a "hard counter" to HTs; it all comes down to who controls better (unless Protoss makes a mistake, in which case that's their fault). Not only do Storm and Archon deal well with any sort of bio push, but Feedback devastates all Terran tech. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecruisers, Medivacs. All of them get demolished by Feedback in the same way that Snipe can demolish Zerg tech late game; the difference: Feedback is a one click wonder that takes next to nothing to do. EMP targets ground, meaning that in an HT vs Ghost 1v1 fight, while the EMP can hit first, for all intents and purposes the Terran has to control far better and control well. The Protoss just has to click to Feedback the Ghost, then it flies to the Ghost and the second it's in range, the Ghost dies. Plus, if the HT has 150+ energy, then the Feedback is near impossible to stop, even if it does not do the killing blow to the Ghost. Try putting your High Templar in a Warp Prism; it's not the hardest micro, it's not like controlling a big Chargelot/Colossi ball is that difficult, and frankly it almost guarantees that you will get off some storms. Good storms in conjunction with Chargelots will beat Terran. Sure, it all depends on micro, but the comparison is still ridiculous. Feedback is single use while emp can work on every single one of your High Templar. Snipe against Zerg is better than Feedback against Terran. As a Zerg, you cannot stop Ghosts from sniping you without killing them. There is literally no way to stop them from sniping you unless you kill them. If you lose all of the energy on your Thors/Banshees/Battlescruisers, then Feedback does nothing (obviously Medivacs and Ravens need energy to do anything so Feedback is a good counter to those, but it also means you are microing your Raven poorly if it keeps on getting Feedbacked). See if more Terrans would say EMP their Thors and Battlecruisers, maybe Feedback wouldn't be so powerful against late game Terran tech. Look at that. I just solved your Feedback problem for half of your race. Try doing the same for Zerg and snipe. On January 26 2012 05:14 The Final Boss wrote:On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that. Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL? Taeja is one of the top Terran players in the world and he has claimed that he thinks Protoss is the strongest race. Just sayin'... ^^ This is a ridiculous argument. Many players can have many different opinions, but their expertise does not make their opinions true. The fact that Terrans have won the last 3 GSLs and the Blizzard Cup which consisted of 2 TvTs and 2 TvZs should point to the idea that no, Protoss is not the strongest race. Either that or Protoss players suck, but in either case the other races shouldn't have a problem with this. Banshees need their energy or else they'll get picked out of the sky in no time. And honestly, I understand that you can do that, except that: 1. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecrusiers, and other tech all happen to be extremely gas intensive. 2. Ghosts cost a lot of gas 3. EMPing Thors is going to take a lot of EMPs since the radius got decreased and Thors happen to be huge. The fact that Terran can do that is different than what I'm saying. I'm merely pointing out that High Templar happen to be extremely good against both Terran bio and Terran tech, while Ghosts are not. I'm not saying that it's some impossible feat to counter, there are plenty of ways (Jjakji used cannons on rocks, which I thought was really clever since most Thor builds result in only a single attack anyways). In the same way, Protoss can just load their High Templar into a Warp Prism and drop them to Storm/Feedback without having to risk getting EMPed. Look at that, I just solved your whole EMP problem (wow that sounded really dumb, just like your post). Maybe you should read what I was quoting instead of blindly writing something. It wasn't an argument, it was an answer to the question. The guy asked who doesn't want to play Protoss players in the GSL, Taeja doesn't... nice job writing that cute paragraph about how "stupid" I am while making an ass out of yourself. A little bit off-topic: from a game design's point of view, isn't it kind of stupid that a player is using offensive spells on their own units? Maybe it's just me but that seems like a really stupid thing to have happen. Banshees and thors will trade cost efficiently with any protoss army unless there is storm and feedback and even then the thor army can trade equally. emping thors is stupid i gotta agree w/ u there. your argument for high templar into a warp prism is fucking awful too... no risk ofgetting empd? oh just risk losing a warp prism and 2-4 high templars without even getting 1 storm off. Mutas arent over powered.. just accept that you're bad at the game and learn from there... If u cant deal with mutas figure out a way to prevent it. double stargate is really really easy to prevent a quick 3rd be safe from most all ins and force hydras (at least against shitty mid to high masters players). And w/ sentries the void rays will rape the hydras, u just gotta know when and how to transition and that just comes from playing. pheonix w/ splash is stupid op.. Collosus pheonix balls would be the only thing played in pvt.
You, sir, should be awarded the TASSADAR PRIZE FOR MOST HONORABLE BROTOSS ALIVE.
Thank you ♥
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On January 26 2012 07:08 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 06:35 -_- wrote:
Buffing phoenix to defeat mass muta does not seem like the best idea to me. If Blizzard did, then more situations would occur where Protoss had enough Phoenix to cut through his opponent's Mutalisks. When this happens, Zerg can't do anything with his mutalisks because one wrong flight pattern and they're all dead. Because of this huge cost, he would keep them at home this game, and simply not make them the next.
I think the best solution would be to make guardian shield extremely effective against air attacks. Even though the glave worm bounces, and guardian shield does negate quite a bit of damage already, it's not enough damage that Protoss can leave a contingent of Stalkers and Sentries in his main, while at the same time having enough troops to seriously assault an entrenched Zerg force.
Frankly, there are not many air to ground situations in vs P matchups. I think guardian shield is an interesting spell, but it's not efficacious enough to where a Protoss player can rationalize spending time moving a sentry to specific position in his army in order to maximize the buff. Increasing its power against air would have not serious effect in big battles in TvP (unless TLO is playing an air terran build) or ZvP (with the exception of making Broodlord air to ground slightly weaker, which would have a minimal effect on the BL's dps considering most of it comes from Broodlings).
Additionally, buffing air to ground guardian shield might make the 1-1-1 banshee variation easier to stop. While it sounds really nice I think it would really change the collossus vs viking dynamic which completely changes the way bio works in larger battles. The most efficient way to kill collossus then goes out the window, requiring even more vikings and making collossus stronger in a timing attack in the early mid game and making them even more powerful in the lategame when less supply is on the ground. Reducing ground units makes drops harder, defending attacks a little more difficult, makes mech even less viable than it is currently as well.
Great points. But what I was thinking was air to ground would be reduced, but not air to air. However, considering I wasn't able to make that clear, it might be too complicated for blizzard, considering they've said they don't like big tooltips.
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Canada13389 Posts
On January 26 2012 07:11 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 07:08 ZeromuS wrote:On January 26 2012 06:35 -_- wrote:
Buffing phoenix to defeat mass muta does not seem like the best idea to me. If Blizzard did, then more situations would occur where Protoss had enough Phoenix to cut through his opponent's Mutalisks. When this happens, Zerg can't do anything with his mutalisks because one wrong flight pattern and they're all dead. Because of this huge cost, he would keep them at home this game, and simply not make them the next.
I think the best solution would be to make guardian shield extremely effective against air attacks. Even though the glave worm bounces, and guardian shield does negate quite a bit of damage already, it's not enough damage that Protoss can leave a contingent of Stalkers and Sentries in his main, while at the same time having enough troops to seriously assault an entrenched Zerg force.
Frankly, there are not many air to ground situations in vs P matchups. I think guardian shield is an interesting spell, but it's not efficacious enough to where a Protoss player can rationalize spending time moving a sentry to specific position in his army in order to maximize the buff. Increasing its power against air would have not serious effect in big battles in TvP (unless TLO is playing an air terran build) or ZvP (with the exception of making Broodlord air to ground slightly weaker, which would have a minimal effect on the BL's dps considering most of it comes from Broodlings).
Additionally, buffing air to ground guardian shield might make the 1-1-1 banshee variation easier to stop. While it sounds really nice I think it would really change the collossus vs viking dynamic which completely changes the way bio works in larger battles. The most efficient way to kill collossus then goes out the window, requiring even more vikings and making collossus stronger in a timing attack in the early mid game and making them even more powerful in the lategame when less supply is on the ground. Reducing ground units makes drops harder, defending attacks a little more difficult, makes mech even less viable than it is currently as well. Great points. But what I was thinking was air to ground would be reduced, but not air to air. However, considering I wasn't able to make that clear, it might be too complicated for blizzard, considering they've said they don't like big tooltips.
The problem is that collossi are still ground units that happen to be targettable by air. Not only would it be completely counter intuitive and confusing the mechanic would technically reduce damage from vikings on collossus because of their classification as ground.
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On January 26 2012 06:39 Garth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 06:37 p1cKLes wrote:On January 26 2012 06:35 Garth wrote:
who the fuck said emp was weak And I quote “pro players at the G Star event in Korea via a Q & A.” as in what pro players, what where they smoking, and g star? can you direct me to an informational thread on it because I Can't find it :O. If tt1 says that voidrays were wayyyy too strong, doesn't mean he's even close to right despite being a proffesional player. Same with lower tiered korean pros. edit: Even then some of these responses couldn't have possibly been form established KOREAN pros. Terran can't beat protoss? Really, terrans fucking annihlate protosses in korea specifically, and the carrier comment I also don't believe would come form a pro.
I'm not saying is comments were right or wrong only that that's where he got his info. Link is below from his original post. But I will add, that when he was referring to Terran not being able to beat Protoss Kim clearly disagreed this isn't the case at higher levels. This is only visible at the lower levels which are indicative of the win/loss ratio’s for silver, gold, platinum and diamond. Once you master Terran the Skill cap is extremely high, but they are difficult to master.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4135187/Q__A_With_David_Kim-12_15_2011#blog
"At the recent G-Star event in Korea, we had an opportunity to talk to some of the GSL’s top competitors and get their feedback on the current state of StarCraft II. This was also a good opportunity to show our players around the world how pro player feedback influences the act of balancing StarCraft II. "
The new post from what I gather given some of the points he made in his last blog is a combination of pros from Korea and some of the comments in the forums.
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On January 26 2012 05:45 RogerChillingworth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that. Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL? You clearly didn't watch the Code S Ro16 group nominations. No one wants to face toss right now.
Wasn't it also MarineKing during the Group Nominations that said that any Terran that thinks Protoss is imba is just an average Terran? That was a fairly confident statement.
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On January 26 2012 07:11 SonOfBoxer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 06:59 meltingmykohchoo wrote:On January 26 2012 04:53 The Final Boss wrote:On January 26 2012 04:38 meltingmykohchoo wrote:On January 26 2012 04:34 NMHU. wrote:
''Terran Can’t Beat Protoss''
''Ghost EMP is Too Weak''
As a protoss player, I only have to say : ''lol''
- NMHU. Thank you hmmm Terran cant beat protoss lololol Emp... Same aoe as storm. Does damage instantly, impossible to dodge also takes energy in aoe / feed back only does 1 unit and costs 2/3rds of the gas. ghosts take 75 gas to tech to. (tech lab n ghost academy) Fuck lets all just play terran!! Ghosts take 40 seconds to build. High Templar take 5. Ghosts can only build from a Barracks that has a Tech Lab attached to it. High Templar can build anywhere within a pylon radius. EMP does a good job against HT tech--if you micro better than the Protoss--while Ghosts are much less useful against builds in which the Protoss gets Colossi sooner. If a Terran tries to get Ghosts, and the Protoss gets Colossi, timing attacks off of two bases can be devastating because there's almost no way that the Terran can have Vikings to deal with Colossi and upgrades to deal with the massive army. High Templar, on the other hand, do very well against everything in the Terran arsenal. Against Ghosts, you have to micro better, but Ghosts are not a "hard counter" to HTs; it all comes down to who controls better (unless Protoss makes a mistake, in which case that's their fault). Not only do Storm and Archon deal well with any sort of bio push, but Feedback devastates all Terran tech. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecruisers, Medivacs. All of them get demolished by Feedback in the same way that Snipe can demolish Zerg tech late game; the difference: Feedback is a one click wonder that takes next to nothing to do. EMP targets ground, meaning that in an HT vs Ghost 1v1 fight, while the EMP can hit first, for all intents and purposes the Terran has to control far better and control well. The Protoss just has to click to Feedback the Ghost, then it flies to the Ghost and the second it's in range, the Ghost dies. Plus, if the HT has 150+ energy, then the Feedback is near impossible to stop, even if it does not do the killing blow to the Ghost. Try putting your High Templar in a Warp Prism; it's not the hardest micro, it's not like controlling a big Chargelot/Colossi ball is that difficult, and frankly it almost guarantees that you will get off some storms. Good storms in conjunction with Chargelots will beat Terran. LOL high templar take 5 seconds to build MYBIG FAT HAIRY ANUS!... u know protoss have the reverse build time mechanic right???? U still have to macro correctly and wait for your warp ins and cool downs. Yes, ghosts are much less useful against collosi But they require a commitment of 50 gas and 150 minerals to tech to. It is extremely easy to outmicro templar with ghosts if they clump up and if u see weakness emp. If they are being smart and putting an obs over ur army sending out 1 or 2 templar at a time? just snipe or send tiny bits of your army to kill those templar. It's extremely easy to snipe templar without getting fed back u just gotta micro as well as a plat but have diamondish game awareness. ur argument about feed back is invalid... the feed back barely does anything against thors and battle cruisers, but if you're going mass banshee or raven, of course im gonna get templar to counter them... What kind of idiot wouldnt get templar or pheonix to counter mass banshee? thats the point of a counter... And you're saying shit about controlling a chargelot colossi ball being easy.. u know.. protoss and zerg units are much harder to micro than marine marauder ghost viking... 1 marine marauder medivacs, 2 ghosts, 3 vikings. The late game protoss go something like this 1. zeal sentry 2. ht 3. collosus. 4. stalkers. We have to cast forcefields, storms, micro the collosus back run the zealots back when u start kiting. while all u do is scan. emp a move w/ stim step shoot step shoot step shoot step shoot step shoot. You're fuckin conclusion to your post is so stupid as well... Good storms in conjunction with chargelots will beat terran... THANK YOU CAPTAIN FUCKING OBVIOUS. Hmm I bet good macro with good micro and just overall superior mechanics will beat an opponent and I guess good emps with good viking control will also rape a protoss anally. you're a f ucking stupid piece of shit. just saying... last 2 seasons i was top 25 masters toss (this season have been slacking on sc2 because of college so about 50ish). Also mid masters terran and mid masters zerg. On January 26 2012 06:15 The Final Boss wrote:On January 26 2012 05:20 flowSthead wrote:On January 26 2012 04:53 The Final Boss wrote:On January 26 2012 04:38 meltingmykohchoo wrote:On January 26 2012 04:34 NMHU. wrote:
''Terran Can’t Beat Protoss''
''Ghost EMP is Too Weak''
As a protoss player, I only have to say : ''lol''
- NMHU. Thank you hmmm Terran cant beat protoss lololol Emp... Same aoe as storm. Does damage instantly, impossible to dodge also takes energy in aoe / feed back only does 1 unit and costs 2/3rds of the gas. ghosts take 75 gas to tech to. (tech lab n ghost academy) Fuck lets all just play terran!! Ghosts take 40 seconds to build. High Templar take 5. Ghosts can only build from a Barracks that has a Tech Lab attached to it. High Templar can build anywhere within a pylon radius. EMP does a good job against HT tech--if you micro better than the Protoss--while Ghosts are much less useful against builds in which the Protoss gets Colossi sooner. If a Terran tries to get Ghosts, and the Protoss gets Colossi, timing attacks off of two bases can be devastating because there's almost no way that the Terran can have Vikings to deal with Colossi and upgrades to deal with the massive army. High Templar, on the other hand, do very well against everything in the Terran arsenal. Against Ghosts, you have to micro better, but Ghosts are not a "hard counter" to HTs; it all comes down to who controls better (unless Protoss makes a mistake, in which case that's their fault). Not only do Storm and Archon deal well with any sort of bio push, but Feedback devastates all Terran tech. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecruisers, Medivacs. All of them get demolished by Feedback in the same way that Snipe can demolish Zerg tech late game; the difference: Feedback is a one click wonder that takes next to nothing to do. EMP targets ground, meaning that in an HT vs Ghost 1v1 fight, while the EMP can hit first, for all intents and purposes the Terran has to control far better and control well. The Protoss just has to click to Feedback the Ghost, then it flies to the Ghost and the second it's in range, the Ghost dies. Plus, if the HT has 150+ energy, then the Feedback is near impossible to stop, even if it does not do the killing blow to the Ghost. Try putting your High Templar in a Warp Prism; it's not the hardest micro, it's not like controlling a big Chargelot/Colossi ball is that difficult, and frankly it almost guarantees that you will get off some storms. Good storms in conjunction with Chargelots will beat Terran. Sure, it all depends on micro, but the comparison is still ridiculous. Feedback is single use while emp can work on every single one of your High Templar. Snipe against Zerg is better than Feedback against Terran. As a Zerg, you cannot stop Ghosts from sniping you without killing them. There is literally no way to stop them from sniping you unless you kill them. If you lose all of the energy on your Thors/Banshees/Battlescruisers, then Feedback does nothing (obviously Medivacs and Ravens need energy to do anything so Feedback is a good counter to those, but it also means you are microing your Raven poorly if it keeps on getting Feedbacked). See if more Terrans would say EMP their Thors and Battlecruisers, maybe Feedback wouldn't be so powerful against late game Terran tech. Look at that. I just solved your Feedback problem for half of your race. Try doing the same for Zerg and snipe. On January 26 2012 05:14 The Final Boss wrote:On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that. Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL? Taeja is one of the top Terran players in the world and he has claimed that he thinks Protoss is the strongest race. Just sayin'... ^^ This is a ridiculous argument. Many players can have many different opinions, but their expertise does not make their opinions true. The fact that Terrans have won the last 3 GSLs and the Blizzard Cup which consisted of 2 TvTs and 2 TvZs should point to the idea that no, Protoss is not the strongest race. Either that or Protoss players suck, but in either case the other races shouldn't have a problem with this. Banshees need their energy or else they'll get picked out of the sky in no time. And honestly, I understand that you can do that, except that: 1. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecrusiers, and other tech all happen to be extremely gas intensive. 2. Ghosts cost a lot of gas 3. EMPing Thors is going to take a lot of EMPs since the radius got decreased and Thors happen to be huge. The fact that Terran can do that is different than what I'm saying. I'm merely pointing out that High Templar happen to be extremely good against both Terran bio and Terran tech, while Ghosts are not. I'm not saying that it's some impossible feat to counter, there are plenty of ways (Jjakji used cannons on rocks, which I thought was really clever since most Thor builds result in only a single attack anyways). In the same way, Protoss can just load their High Templar into a Warp Prism and drop them to Storm/Feedback without having to risk getting EMPed. Look at that, I just solved your whole EMP problem (wow that sounded really dumb, just like your post). Maybe you should read what I was quoting instead of blindly writing something. It wasn't an argument, it was an answer to the question. The guy asked who doesn't want to play Protoss players in the GSL, Taeja doesn't... nice job writing that cute paragraph about how "stupid" I am while making an ass out of yourself. A little bit off-topic: from a game design's point of view, isn't it kind of stupid that a player is using offensive spells on their own units? Maybe it's just me but that seems like a really stupid thing to have happen. Banshees and thors will trade cost efficiently with any protoss army unless there is storm and feedback and even then the thor army can trade equally. emping thors is stupid i gotta agree w/ u there. your argument for high templar into a warp prism is fucking awful too... no risk ofgetting empd? oh just risk losing a warp prism and 2-4 high templars without even getting 1 storm off. Mutas arent over powered.. just accept that you're bad at the game and learn from there... If u cant deal with mutas figure out a way to prevent it. double stargate is really really easy to prevent a quick 3rd be safe from most all ins and force hydras (at least against shitty mid to high masters players). And w/ sentries the void rays will rape the hydras, u just gotta know when and how to transition and that just comes from playing. pheonix w/ splash is stupid op.. Collosus pheonix balls would be the only thing played in pvt. You, sir, should be awarded the TASSADAR PRIZE FOR MOST HONORABLE BROTOSS ALIVE. Thank you ♥
NO, thank you my good sir
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On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed
This solves the problem in PvZ, but it creates a new problem in PvT. If the phoenix were to deal splash damage to air units, they would be too good vs vikings, and then Colossus pushes would be so imba.
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On January 26 2012 07:18 flowSthead wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 05:45 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that. Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL? You clearly didn't watch the Code S Ro16 group nominations. No one wants to face toss right now. Wasn't it also MarineKing during the Group Nominations that said that any Terran that thinks Protoss is imba is just an average Terran? That was a fairly confident statement.
people in gsl nominations tend to troll/joke around with each other.
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Haha give carriers air shield, while ground shields suck. That way they would be 2 total different siege units with opposite conters and probably totally op together xD.
But would be nice to see a phoenix buff, i considered the faster build time before imba, so i wouldn't mind as they are on of my favorite units. And that just because people forgot how to fight mutas lol.
About the nydus, just make the network unload fast again then you would see them every lategame after a while. (note not the worm just the network  )
Didn't expected less from Blizzard being ontop of everything again and hoping players can solve the problems themselfs. Just their no random thing makes it hard for them to solve things (like different nydus unload times heh)
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On January 26 2012 07:18 flowSthead wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 05:45 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that. Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL? You clearly didn't watch the Code S Ro16 group nominations. No one wants to face toss right now. Wasn't it also MarineKing during the Group Nominations that said that any Terran that thinks Protoss is imba is just an average Terran? That was a fairly confident statement.
Most of what they say about balance at the Nominations is bullshit anyway.
Nestea: "Protoss is really strong, I don't know any way to beat them. But since I have to overcome my weakness, I came here to pick a Protoss. *picks a Zerg*".
Really Nestea? /rolleyes
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On January 26 2012 07:32 Vague wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed This solves the problem in PvZ, but it creates a new problem in PvT. If the phoenix were to deal splash damage to air units, they would be too good vs vikings, and then Colossus pushes would be so imba.
You could just make it so Phoenixes only splash light if this is the only problem.
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Coming from a guy who plays like 50/50 Zerg/Protoss on ladder.
The solution to mass Mutas in PvZ is to simply move out and kill zerg. Just double forge and lots of Zealots, Stalkers, and a few sentries. If the Z player tries to base race you he's going to lose, because a well upgraded gateway army puts out a lot more dps than mutalisks do. Not to mention after several warp ins with upgraded stalkers you can eventually hold them off.
I can't even count the number of times I've lost like 30 probes in a game against a 3-4 base zerg and just taken my 2/2 gateway army and killed him. Often times resulting in balance whine that Protoss is OP.
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On January 26 2012 07:36 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 07:18 flowSthead wrote:On January 26 2012 05:45 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that. Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL? You clearly didn't watch the Code S Ro16 group nominations. No one wants to face toss right now. Wasn't it also MarineKing during the Group Nominations that said that any Terran that thinks Protoss is imba is just an average Terran? That was a fairly confident statement. people in gsl nominations tend to troll/joke around with each other.
On January 26 2012 07:37 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 07:18 flowSthead wrote:On January 26 2012 05:45 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that. Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL? You clearly didn't watch the Code S Ro16 group nominations. No one wants to face toss right now. Wasn't it also MarineKing during the Group Nominations that said that any Terran that thinks Protoss is imba is just an average Terran? That was a fairly confident statement. Most of what they say about balance at the Nominations is bullshit anyway. Nestea: "Protoss is really strong, I don't know any way to beat them. But since I have to overcome my weakness, I came here to pick a Protoss. *picks a Zerg*". Really Nestea? /rolleyes
I'm aware. I was more pointing out that it wasn't a 100% consensus on Protoss being difficult from every player there. Even if it is a joke/troll, if you say the same thing often enough there must be some amount of truth in it, or at least that seems to be what a lot of viewers think.
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On January 26 2012 07:37 rUiNati0n wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 07:32 Vague wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed This solves the problem in PvZ, but it creates a new problem in PvT. If the phoenix were to deal splash damage to air units, they would be too good vs vikings, and then Colossus pushes would be so imba. You could just make it so Phoenixes only splash light if this is the only problem.
Yes, you could...but it would be a very artificial solution; splash damage doesn't work that way (if vikings were massive unitis, it would make sense, but it makes no sense to say that they don't get splash damage just because they are armored). Maybe the solution is to give the phoenix a bonus damage vs light units, rather than splash damage.
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some good questions asked, very interested in the nydus and the FFE answers.
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Same old same old..
Doesn't really tell us anything besides which units they are currently looking at >_< Anyways, i think any changes right before HOTS comes out would be a waste, since the meta game and the balance will go up-side-down once beta goes live.
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On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed
I think that would be a good fix but I would make the gravaton beem cost more energy just so you cant spam all your phoenix to lift and have 1 phoenix splash all the workers like 10 times. It'd then become like flying hellions...oh how thatd be fun to play against.
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He could just make a blog saying: "We are aware of some balance issues right now and we are planning on fixing them with the release of the Heart of the Swarm".
Seriously, they are using HotS as the answer to all the problems in SC2. T_T
At the Blizzcon 2011, it was just "Yeah, we know this is a huge problem right now, but you can wait 6 months, because we are releasing a new unit that will solve your problems".
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EPT
