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On January 26 2012 06:26 redechelon wrote:
Complaints of mass Muta vs. Protoss is confusing to me. Templar tech shreds Mutas. Quit massing stalker.
I'm also confused by the want to buff Terran at lower levels... The concept of Terran seems easiest to grasp by new players, and they're extremely versatile.
the problem is that you have to go 2-base templar while maintaining enough production of stalkers to fend off mutalisks.
he is expanding. probably takign a 4th base.
the mutas either hit you without scouting OR you invested in robo and got an obs (that is a ton of money just to create 1 obs).
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On January 26 2012 06:26 redechelon wrote:
Complaints of mass Muta vs. Protoss is confusing to me. Templar tech shreds Mutas. Quit massing stalker.
I'm also confused by the want to buff Terran at lower levels... The concept of Terran seems easiest to grasp by new players, and they're extremely versatile.
Templar tech shreds mutas if the zerg is stupid enough to clump mutas and fly them over archons/templar... Archons are way to slow/low ranged to deal with muta harras, and if Templars all zerg player has to do is sit them over top mineral line, Toss isn't going to storm and kill all his own probes.. I'm not saying Mutas are super OP its just that Toss really doesn't have a good way to properly deal with mass mutas. Templar tech is too immobile and blink stalkers are way to weak/inefficient
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To fix mutas vs protoss I would give either +1 range or very small splash damage to phoenixes. Phoenixes just aren't able to kill clumped up mutas well enough.
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who the fuck said emp was weak
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Buffing phoenix to defeat mass muta does not seem like the best idea to me. If Blizzard did, then more situations would occur where Protoss had enough Phoenix to cut through his opponent's Mutalisks. When this happens, Zerg can't do anything with his mutalisks because one wrong flight pattern and they're all dead. Because of this huge cost, he would keep them at home this game, and simply not make them the next.
I think the best solution would be to make guardian shield extremely effective against air attacks. Even though the glave worm bounces, and guardian shield does negate quite a bit of damage already, it's not enough damage that Protoss can leave a contingent of Stalkers and Sentries in his main, while at the same time having enough troops to seriously assault an entrenched Zerg force.
Frankly, there are not many air to ground situations in vs P matchups. I think guardian shield is an interesting spell, but it's not efficacious enough to where a Protoss player can rationalize spending time moving a sentry to specific position in his army in order to maximize the buff. Increasing its power against air would have not serious effect in big battles in TvP (unless TLO is playing an air terran build) or ZvP (with the exception of making Broodlord air to ground slightly weaker, which would have a minimal effect on the BL's dps considering most of it comes from Broodlings).
Additionally, buffing air to ground guardian shield might make the 1-1-1 banshee variation easier to stop.
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On January 26 2012 06:29 architecture wrote:
Why are people such idiots about Feedback?
For PvT, Feedback COUNTERS drops. You're right, Feedback doesn't stack up in HT vs Ghost. But that DOESN'T matter, because the PRIMARY usage is to shut down Medivacs, which let me remind you are nearly as expensive as any caster.
It's like saying why does EMP suck, it can't kill units like Storm. That's because that's not its usage. The PURPOSE of ghost is to nullify templar.
Feedback only counters drops if the Medivacs have full energy. If they have less than full, then you need other units there like Stalkers and Zealots.
Also, how do you know what the primary usage of Feedback is? Was there a memo from Blizzard and the pro players on how Feedback is primarily supposed to be used on drops and not on Ghosts? Because I missed that one obviously.
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David Kim always makes a lot if sense when it comes to balance, he is a high level player himself, he has concerns much like we do on TL. Most of the things he mentioned are pretty much what I have been hearing for the last few months and I am glad to hear they are thinking about a Nydus change to make it most viable as Zerg. Also I am glad to hear about the Carrier too, I wouldn't want to see it go without them trying to make it work with a few changes, if they can't find a way I guess it's for the best that they find a different unit in HotS. I know they are doing a great job searching through all the positive and negative feedback and ignoring the trolls and whiners you find through various community's out there.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2012 06:24 Roxy wrote:
If there was ever a thread that blizzard my read my opinions, this is probably it (given they stated they do browse some non-blizzard forums once in a while.
I probably got a little carried away, but I had fun doing it.
These are some changes that I think could make the game more interesting and dynamic.
i know it wont happen, but indulge me
General:
I think upgrade combinations would be very nice. Say, combining the (neosteel/bunker upg. 150/150), (overlord speed/drop 150/150), (observer/prism speed 150/150)
Protoss:
Protoss needs a unit that can deal with heavy early game aggression from Zerg/Terran.
- I propose this unit cost enough gas to be used INSTEAD of, not in addition to sentries
- I propose this unti cost enough food to not be used in addition to the death ball (as the death ball as a whole would be weaker because of supply factors)
- It may very well be justified that this unit only be possible out of a gateway (not warp gate)
- This unit should be strong and cost effective. Potentially require gas, but not cyber core.
Zealot
- Move charge to cyber core
- Charge upgrade should allow zealot to move 0.05 faster than stalker
- Make it either take longer or require a twilight/robo/stargate
Stalker
- Stalker should be able to kite non-stimmed marines indefinitely if micro’d perfectly. A 6 range unit should never get a shot off after a 5 range unit.
- Does not scale well in late game. I suggest +1 vs armor per upgrade.
Observer
- Require twilight/robo/stargate
- Build from nexus
- Speed upgrade from cyber core
Pheonix
- Should splash air units (small)
- Add researchable disruption web (smaller area than BW one because phoenix have other utility than corsair)
- Add energy upgrade for pheonix
High Templar
- Given 7 range attack/ability that does 7 (+3 damage to light) - (chain lightning to 4 units)
- Attack is an autocast spell that attacks as any attack from other units would.
- It costs 10 energy per shot.
- It ignores all shields but does not get bonuses from upgrades.
- Researchable from Templar archives (100/100)
- HT received movement speed buff if charge is researched.
- Archon merge time reduced to same as warp in time. This will allow it to actually be used in battle instead of after.
Sentry
- increase range to 7(casters should be in back)
Nexus
- Abiltiy within 20 range to be used as a shield battery.
- 1 energy = 2 sheild
DT
- Receive a researchable upgrade for 1 of these 2 abilities (can not research both.)
- Can sprint. Is not cloaked while sprinting. Timed ability lasts for 10 seconds. 50% increase move speed. 1 minute cooldown.
- Can phase out for 10 seconds. Immobilized for 5 seconds after phasing back in. still cloaked.
Carrier
- Comes with graviton catapult whatever it is called already researched
- Allow it to research attack while moving ability.
- Reduce cost
- Give extra starting armor (marine should not > carrier)
Immortal
- Researchable siege mode that changes it from anti-ground to anti-air. Cannot move while in siege mode. Same deployment time as siege tank. No splash. 9 range. No hardened shield.
Mothership
- Remove vortex. Archon toilet is lame.
- probably just remove this unit. mega units liek this are dumb.
Terran:
Tech switching against terran can be pretty deadly.
I really think that terran should be able to get those reactor things from the campaign to be able to produce double of any unit they like.
- I think it should require armory
- I think it should cost 50/50
- I think it should disable building untis for 45 seconds while it is upgrading
- I think it should upgrade from a tech lab or a reactor.
Terran repair is really strong. I propose that each scv should have 90% of the repair effectiveness of the last one told to repair. I think it is unreasonable for someone to have to bring their entire army to kill an otherwise undefended expansion (planetary).
Mule
- Replace with SCV calldown. No term of life.
Marauder:
- These units are not good against zealots. Concussion shell is necessary or early terran would just lose to all-zealot pressure.
- I do have a problem with concussion against non-bio units (particularly stalker). I think protoss should be able to poke around with a stalker for scouting intel in the early game without losing it because it takes 1 hit from a marauder.
- Researchable ability on tech lab. Requires armory. Can lay 1 spider mine.
Medivac
- I think a very interesting dynamic for this would for it to have a speed boost that uses up energy.
- This reduces its ability to heal, but may very well save its life.
- Make it fast enough to get away from mutalisks. Perhaps the same speed as phoenix.
Raven
- Raven sucks. I don’t think it is just unexplored, I think it is just bad.
- I recommend replacing raven with science vessel abilities (irradiate/emp/ppd)
- EMP on raven instead of ghost (huge buff. 1 more range than feedback, double the size of current emp, fully deplete all energy and shield)
Ghost
- EMP should be moved to raven (See above)
- As replacement for emp, ti should have something similar to lockdown. Affects mech units and reduces their attack speed by 50% for 3 seconds. (alternative to going Viking vs colo).
- Stun ability should require research
- Ghost should come with cloak
Thor
- Max energy should be 125 (can use its ability once), to reduce feedback effectiveness
Multiple SCV to build a building
- Engine Bay Upgrade
- Require armory
Viking
Air mode is good vs broodlord and colossus. Ground mode sucks whent hey tech swtich. Likeley tech switch is either ling/ultra or zealot/archon
Either (not sure, perhaps a terran could shed more light):
- +dmg to bio (vs zealots/ultra in landed mode)
- +Pierce to bio (ignore armor/shield of bio units in landed mode)
Zerg:
I really think zerg should be more about evolution. As such, they should get small bonuses for having lair or hive tech.
Infestor
- stun is bad mechanics. fungal should slow units similar to marauder.
- Taking control of other units is bad game design. Remove neural. Add dark swarm for sam AOE as fungal would be.
- Re-think the viper as it would be redundant.
- Can research increased move speed for infested terrans
Hive/Lair
- If you possess these, your creep should spread faster (+20% if lair and another +20% compounded with hive).
- If you possess these, your untis move faster on creep (+extra 5% for lair, and compounded 5% for hive).
- If you possess these, your untis regen faster on creep (+extra 20% for lair, and compounded 20% for hive).
- Hive now requires either hydra den, spire, or infestation pit
- Hive should allow overlords to drop creep while moving. Move at reduced rate when activated.
- Hive upgrade 100/100. Muta get 1 extra glaive bounce
- Increase hive and lair cost each by 50/50 and increase time by 40 seconds
Queen
- Ability to upgrade to massive unit
- Require lair
- Spreads creep as it moves (always moves as if on creep as well)
- Same speed as hydra on creep.
- 45 second morph time
- No AA
Zergling
- Auto upgraded for free if you are on lair tech
- If a zergling kills a unit, its attack speed increases by 20% for the rest of its life.
Roach
- Given on lair tech ability (no research required) to have acid stay on ground for 3 seconds. Deal 1 dps to anything standing on it
- Hive upgrade 200/200– reduce roach psi cost to 1.
Hydralisk
- Upgrade 100/100 to have 25% to knock back unit 1 space when hit
Corrupter
- Receives 2 new abilities. All affected by same cooldown time (you can only use 1 of the 3 each 10 seconds)
- Corruption – target takes 25% more damage for 10 seconds
- Reduces range of target by 50% for 10 seconds
- Prevents unit from activating abilities or casting spells for 10 seconds
- Units affected by these are identified in the unit selection bar (lets say they turn purple)
Brood Lord
- All non-light units can push broodlings out of the way as they move.
- Gets ability to turn into a cocoon. Raises armor by 10. Can not attack or move. Loses attack priority in case someone is a-moving. 3 seconds to undo cocoon (activated same as burrow)
Ultralisk
- Can walk over units similar to colossus.
- Can not walk up cliffs
- Researchable ability to do reverse graviton beam (jump up and grab non-massive air unit and bring to ground)
UI/general Suggestions:
- whenever a unit is killed holding minerals or gas, those resources drop onto the ground campaign style. can be picked up by anyone.
- separate rally point for overlords
- main base should show how many workers you currently have.
- a timer (larva inject/mule style) for chronoboost.
- a timer on warpgates (same style as above, in the selection bar).
- ability to inject and chronoboost from the control(selected unit) panel
- range being displayed on all spellcasters (some show range, some dont. be consistent).
- idle creep tumor button
- attack/rally points
- a button you can press that drops 1 unit from your army (for ling/baneling micro, and transfering workers to each mineral patch/gas)
- click on your main building and have it show you your income.
- resource/unit counting bar position above minimap
- option of hiding hitpoint bars of full/health allied units
- fix ultralisk pathing (imo all massive units should push non-massive units out of the way – particularly issue with ultra and archon.. sometimes thor. Broodlings should not stop these massive units from moving.)
- stalker warpin size should actually reflect the size of the unit
- fix colossus pathing over the mineral lines and ramps
- pylon power radius back to what it used to be
- pylon does not power high ground. (think of it powering like a hose would leak water)
- can warp units in on ramps again.
- if you have a PF and OC selected, they create SCV evenly.
-burrow/unburrow / supply depot up/down is different hotkey.
- Ability to rebind ctrl key to the ` key.
- ability to hotkey the team tab so you can quickly see what race your opponent is when you weren’t paying attention in loading screen.
Some really cool ideas in here, would love to play your version of the game. Disagree with the terran tech switching though, as that's an intended weakness of the race. Wish upgrades would be more forgiving though.
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The reason that Z couldn't just always mass mutas in BW was because
1. irradiate + firebats (so that MM would shit on mass ling so hard that lurkers were necessary)
2. corsairs
Flying around with 20-30 fast units, ignoring terrain is NOT good game design. The entire purpose of a flying unit is to trade strength for mobility. But somehow Blizzard forgot all about how the original game worked.
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On January 26 2012 06:35 Garth wrote:
who the fuck said emp was weak
And I quote “pro players at the G Star event in Korea via a Q & A.”
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On January 26 2012 06:37 p1cKLes wrote:And I quote “pro players at the G Star event in Korea via a Q & A.”
as in what pro players, what where they smoking, and g star? can you direct me to an informational thread on it because I Can't find it :O.
If tt1 says that voidrays were wayyyy too strong, doesn't mean he's even close to right despite being a proffesional player. Same with lower tiered korean pros.
edit: Even then some of these responses couldn't have possibly been form established KOREAN pros. Terran can't beat protoss? Really, terrans fucking annihlate protosses in korea specifically, and the carrier comment I also don't believe would come form a pro.
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hopefully they don't make any drastic changes until hots
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I can't really see anything new in his responses.
We already know
1) "we have our own numbers"
2) "we look into it"
3) "HotS"
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Roxy, you just broke the game so badly nobody will ever pick up another RTS ever again x.x
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On January 26 2012 06:31 ampson wrote:
To fix mutas vs protoss I would give either +1 range or very small splash damage to phoenixes. Phoenixes just aren't able to kill clumped up mutas well enough.
+1 Range would do it I think, much easier to micro but still you can't just a-move or something like that. It will still be difficult and if you are not paying attention to a big mutalisk cloud they can one-two shot you.
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On January 26 2012 06:36 architecture wrote:
The reason that Z couldn't just always mass mutas in BW was because
1. irradiate + firebats (so that MM would shit on mass ling so hard that lurkers were necessary)
2. corsairs
Flying around with 20-30 fast units, ignoring terrain is NOT good game design. The entire purpose of a flying unit is to trade strength for mobility. But somehow Blizzard forgot all about how the original game worked.
I deal with Mutas fine right now but my problem with it is that Phoenix is supposed to be a hard counter but they are so bad at killing Mutas.
This is a major issue because both in SC2 and BW the same dynamic exists where Protoss (being the slow and costly race) can CHOOSE to hard counter either air or ground but this is offset by Zerg's ability to tech switch seamlessly. As I see it in SC2 Protoss cannot hard counter Zerg air. Blizz tried to make Phoenix more versatile and cooler than the Corsair (which they largely succeeded with) but they forgot WHY the Corsair even existed, to hard counter light air.
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You are just handwaving.
No race is slow and costly. All army values converge to be about the same in engagements. The only differences are timings. It takes protoss 2-4m per complete tech switch. It takes Z 1-3m.
Corsairs didn't prevent mutas from being made, it simply prevented 40 mutas from being more effective than 15.
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On January 26 2012 04:53 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 04:38 meltingmykohchoo wrote:On January 26 2012 04:34 NMHU. wrote:
''Terran Can’t Beat Protoss''
''Ghost EMP is Too Weak''
As a protoss player, I only have to say : ''lol''
- NMHU. Thank you  hmmm Terran cant beat protoss lololol Emp... Same aoe as storm. Does damage instantly, impossible to dodge also takes energy in aoe / feed back only does 1 unit and costs 2/3rds of the gas. ghosts take 75 gas to tech to. (tech lab n ghost academy) Fuck lets all just play terran!! Ghosts take 40 seconds to build. High Templar take 5. Ghosts can only build from a Barracks that has a Tech Lab attached to it. High Templar can build anywhere within a pylon radius. EMP does a good job against HT tech--if you micro better than the Protoss--while Ghosts are much less useful against builds in which the Protoss gets Colossi sooner. If a Terran tries to get Ghosts, and the Protoss gets Colossi, timing attacks off of two bases can be devastating because there's almost no way that the Terran can have Vikings to deal with Colossi and upgrades to deal with the massive army. High Templar, on the other hand, do very well against everything in the Terran arsenal. Against Ghosts, you have to micro better, but Ghosts are not a "hard counter" to HTs; it all comes down to who controls better (unless Protoss makes a mistake, in which case that's their fault). Not only do Storm and Archon deal well with any sort of bio push, but Feedback devastates all Terran tech. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecruisers, Medivacs. All of them get demolished by Feedback in the same way that Snipe can demolish Zerg tech late game; the difference: Feedback is a one click wonder that takes next to nothing to do. EMP targets ground, meaning that in an HT vs Ghost 1v1 fight, while the EMP can hit first, for all intents and purposes the Terran has to control far better and control well. The Protoss just has to click to Feedback the Ghost, then it flies to the Ghost and the second it's in range, the Ghost dies. Plus, if the HT has 150+ energy, then the Feedback is near impossible to stop, even if it does not do the killing blow to the Ghost. Try putting your High Templar in a Warp Prism; it's not the hardest micro, it's not like controlling a big Chargelot/Colossi ball is that difficult, and frankly it almost guarantees that you will get off some storms. Good storms in conjunction with Chargelots will beat Terran.
LOL high templar take 5 seconds to build MYBIG FAT HAIRY ANUS!... u know protoss have the reverse build time mechanic right???? U still have to macro correctly and wait for your warp ins and cool downs. Yes, ghosts are much less useful against collosi But they require a commitment of 50 gas and 150 minerals to tech to. It is extremely easy to outmicro templar with ghosts if they clump up and if u see weakness emp. If they are being smart and putting an obs over ur army sending out 1 or 2 templar at a time? just snipe or send tiny bits of your army to kill those templar. It's extremely easy to snipe templar without getting fed back u just gotta micro as well as a plat but have diamondish game awareness. ur argument about feed back is invalid... the feed back barely does anything against thors and battle cruisers, but if you're going mass banshee or raven, of course im gonna get templar to counter them... What kind of idiot wouldnt get templar or pheonix to counter mass banshee? thats the point of a counter... And you're saying shit about controlling a chargelot colossi ball being easy.. u know.. protoss and zerg units are much harder to micro than marine marauder ghost viking... 1 marine marauder medivacs, 2 ghosts, 3 vikings. The late game protoss go something like this 1. zeal sentry 2. ht 3. collosus. 4. stalkers. We have to cast forcefields, storms, micro the collosus back run the zealots back when u start kiting. while all u do is scan. emp a move w/ stim step shoot step shoot step shoot step shoot step shoot. You're fuckin conclusion to your post is so stupid as well... Good storms in conjunction with chargelots will beat terran... THANK YOU CAPTAIN FUCKING OBVIOUS. Hmm I bet good macro with good micro and just overall superior mechanics will beat an opponent and I guess good emps with good viking control will also rape a protoss anally. you're a f ucking stupid piece of shit. just saying... last 2 seasons i was top 25 masters toss (this season have been slacking on sc2 because of college so about 50ish). Also mid masters terran and mid masters zerg.
On January 26 2012 06:15 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 05:20 flowSthead wrote:On January 26 2012 04:53 The Final Boss wrote:On January 26 2012 04:38 meltingmykohchoo wrote:On January 26 2012 04:34 NMHU. wrote:
''Terran Can’t Beat Protoss''
''Ghost EMP is Too Weak''
As a protoss player, I only have to say : ''lol''
- NMHU. Thank you hmmm Terran cant beat protoss lololol Emp... Same aoe as storm. Does damage instantly, impossible to dodge also takes energy in aoe / feed back only does 1 unit and costs 2/3rds of the gas. ghosts take 75 gas to tech to. (tech lab n ghost academy) Fuck lets all just play terran!! Ghosts take 40 seconds to build. High Templar take 5. Ghosts can only build from a Barracks that has a Tech Lab attached to it. High Templar can build anywhere within a pylon radius. EMP does a good job against HT tech--if you micro better than the Protoss--while Ghosts are much less useful against builds in which the Protoss gets Colossi sooner. If a Terran tries to get Ghosts, and the Protoss gets Colossi, timing attacks off of two bases can be devastating because there's almost no way that the Terran can have Vikings to deal with Colossi and upgrades to deal with the massive army. High Templar, on the other hand, do very well against everything in the Terran arsenal. Against Ghosts, you have to micro better, but Ghosts are not a "hard counter" to HTs; it all comes down to who controls better (unless Protoss makes a mistake, in which case that's their fault). Not only do Storm and Archon deal well with any sort of bio push, but Feedback devastates all Terran tech. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecruisers, Medivacs. All of them get demolished by Feedback in the same way that Snipe can demolish Zerg tech late game; the difference: Feedback is a one click wonder that takes next to nothing to do. EMP targets ground, meaning that in an HT vs Ghost 1v1 fight, while the EMP can hit first, for all intents and purposes the Terran has to control far better and control well. The Protoss just has to click to Feedback the Ghost, then it flies to the Ghost and the second it's in range, the Ghost dies. Plus, if the HT has 150+ energy, then the Feedback is near impossible to stop, even if it does not do the killing blow to the Ghost. Try putting your High Templar in a Warp Prism; it's not the hardest micro, it's not like controlling a big Chargelot/Colossi ball is that difficult, and frankly it almost guarantees that you will get off some storms. Good storms in conjunction with Chargelots will beat Terran. Sure, it all depends on micro, but the comparison is still ridiculous. Feedback is single use while emp can work on every single one of your High Templar. Snipe against Zerg is better than Feedback against Terran. As a Zerg, you cannot stop Ghosts from sniping you without killing them. There is literally no way to stop them from sniping you unless you kill them. If you lose all of the energy on your Thors/Banshees/Battlescruisers, then Feedback does nothing (obviously Medivacs and Ravens need energy to do anything so Feedback is a good counter to those, but it also means you are microing your Raven poorly if it keeps on getting Feedbacked). See if more Terrans would say EMP their Thors and Battlecruisers, maybe Feedback wouldn't be so powerful against late game Terran tech. Look at that. I just solved your Feedback problem for half of your race. Try doing the same for Zerg and snipe. On January 26 2012 05:14 The Final Boss wrote:On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that. Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL? Taeja is one of the top Terran players in the world and he has claimed that he thinks Protoss is the strongest race. Just sayin'... ^^ This is a ridiculous argument. Many players can have many different opinions, but their expertise does not make their opinions true. The fact that Terrans have won the last 3 GSLs and the Blizzard Cup which consisted of 2 TvTs and 2 TvZs should point to the idea that no, Protoss is not the strongest race. Either that or Protoss players suck, but in either case the other races shouldn't have a problem with this. Banshees need their energy or else they'll get picked out of the sky in no time. And honestly, I understand that you can do that, except that: 1. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecrusiers, and other tech all happen to be extremely gas intensive. 2. Ghosts cost a lot of gas 3. EMPing Thors is going to take a lot of EMPs since the radius got decreased and Thors happen to be huge. The fact that Terran can do that is different than what I'm saying. I'm merely pointing out that High Templar happen to be extremely good against both Terran bio and Terran tech, while Ghosts are not. I'm not saying that it's some impossible feat to counter, there are plenty of ways (Jjakji used cannons on rocks, which I thought was really clever since most Thor builds result in only a single attack anyways). In the same way, Protoss can just load their High Templar into a Warp Prism and drop them to Storm/Feedback without having to risk getting EMPed. Look at that, I just solved your whole EMP problem (wow that sounded really dumb, just like your post). Maybe you should read what I was quoting instead of blindly writing something. It wasn't an argument, it was an answer to the question. The guy asked who doesn't want to play Protoss players in the GSL, Taeja doesn't... nice job writing that cute paragraph about how "stupid" I am while making an ass out of yourself. A little bit off-topic: from a game design's point of view, isn't it kind of stupid that a player is using offensive spells on their own units? Maybe it's just me but that seems like a really stupid thing to have happen.
Banshees and thors will trade cost efficiently with any protoss army unless there is storm and feedback and even then the thor army can trade equally. emping thors is stupid i gotta agree w/ u there.
your argument for high templar into a warp prism is fucking awful too... no risk ofgetting empd? oh just risk losing a warp prism and 2-4 high templars without even getting 1 storm off.
Mutas arent over powered.. just accept that you're bad at the game and learn from there... If u cant deal with mutas figure out a way to prevent it. double stargate is really really easy to prevent a quick 3rd be safe from most all ins and force hydras (at least against shitty mid to high masters players). And w/ sentries the void rays will rape the hydras, u just gotta know when and how to transition and that just comes from playing.
pheonix w/ splash is stupid op.. Collosus pheonix balls would be the only thing played in pvt.
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just bring the corsair back lol. It would totaly break zergs like stephano that play heavy static defense + muta until broodlord infestor ling mass upgrades comes out.
Yeah, maybe it would be a terrible unit in pvp, now that fenix is getting some space in the matchup... but I dont know, the whole concept of the fenix is not working that well in the game right now.
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Canada13389 Posts
On January 26 2012 06:35 -_- wrote:
Buffing phoenix to defeat mass muta does not seem like the best idea to me. If Blizzard did, then more situations would occur where Protoss had enough Phoenix to cut through his opponent's Mutalisks. When this happens, Zerg can't do anything with his mutalisks because one wrong flight pattern and they're all dead. Because of this huge cost, he would keep them at home this game, and simply not make them the next.
I think the best solution would be to make guardian shield extremely effective against air attacks. Even though the glave worm bounces, and guardian shield does negate quite a bit of damage already, it's not enough damage that Protoss can leave a contingent of Stalkers and Sentries in his main, while at the same time having enough troops to seriously assault an entrenched Zerg force.
Frankly, there are not many air to ground situations in vs P matchups. I think guardian shield is an interesting spell, but it's not efficacious enough to where a Protoss player can rationalize spending time moving a sentry to specific position in his army in order to maximize the buff. Increasing its power against air would have not serious effect in big battles in TvP (unless TLO is playing an air terran build) or ZvP (with the exception of making Broodlord air to ground slightly weaker, which would have a minimal effect on the BL's dps considering most of it comes from Broodlings).
Additionally, buffing air to ground guardian shield might make the 1-1-1 banshee variation easier to stop.
While it sounds really nice I think it would really change the collossus vs viking dynamic which completely changes the way bio works in larger battles. The most efficient way to kill collossus then goes out the window, requiring even more vikings and making collossus stronger in a timing attack in the early mid game and making them even more powerful in the lategame when less supply is on the ground. Reducing ground units makes drops harder, defending attacks a little more difficult, makes mech even less viable than it is currently as well.
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EPT
