EPTUser was warned for this post
aLive, "I want to resolve this issue" - Page 11
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
By swallowing evil words unsaid, no one has ever harmed his stomach. ~Winston Churchill | ||
|
Vadrigar
Bulgaria2379 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 19 2012 04:03 Jimmeh wrote: Since everyone wants to play e-lawyer ("IN AMERICA IT'S LEGAL SO IT'S FINE" "BUT IN EUROPE IT'S ILLEGAL SO IT'S NOT FINE", seriously could you not just Google without assuming your own laws apply everywhere?) without actually doing any proper research, I'm going to quote myself from the other thread: After reading up quite a bit, whilst there's no specific laws regarding it it seems it could possibly break a few laws: http://www.mcafee.com/us/regulations/apac/republic-of-korea.aspx Nicely done. This was a skype conversation, but could likely be covered under the same law since it deal with electronic communications. I was not a fan of that part of the story. The fact that he coach Lee was actively camping their skype discussions is not encouraging and slightly creepy. After all, these players and family and girlfriends. Even though they are TSL's computers, it is super unprofessional. If you don't trust someone, don't hire them. | ||
|
scronaldo
United States19 Posts
I don't get why it's poor Alive. Alive fucked up. It's not like he was a slave on TSL. Even if he didn't like staying there anymore, he signed a professional contract and was getting paid actual money (not Monopoly money) to represent TSL and their sponsors until July. Which is especially important since he was their only current player in Code S and would be the most seen out of all the TSL players at the moment. I know Alive is young and all, but I don't think it's that hard to understand a contract. If Alive wanted to leave, he should have went to Lee directly and left like JYP, Killer and Clide who all got permission to leave without any fuss. JYP and Clide both joined new teams with no problem and are happy where they are. Alive and the translator, who seemed to have started talks of signing a deal before even the Fnatic team knew about it, from my view point, are the ones to blame most harshly in this matter. It makes Fnatic look bad. It makes TSL look bad. Shit, it makes e-sports in general look bad. How is anyone supposed to take this seriously when we have players breaching contracts left and right? That pretty much sums it all up. Well said. | ||
|
DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
| ||
|
woody60707
United States1863 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:41 Chill wrote: This seems like the smallest deal in the world. Someone wants to get out of their contract, which is fine as there is a pay-out clause. Someone else says they will hire that person after they're contract-free. They mistakenly announce they've signed him before the contract is in place. So the only mistake here was announcing they signed him before they had. Honestly, who cares? Alive will pay the buy-out fee and then sign with fnatic. People leave companies to join other ones all the time. They have signed offer letters before they quit their existing job. On January 19 2012 02:49 Chill wrote: Oh, fnatic didn't even announce they signed him? LOL then what is this thread? They casually talked to him and said they would contract him if he got out of his existing contract? Right, that's how business works. I couldn't agree with this more. I'm kinda new to "Esports", but when did a buyout mean the same thing as poaching and backstabbing? When this happens in "Real sports", no one calls it backstabbing (not counting the 1% of hardcore fans who think players should only be paid in "love of the game" and unicorn kisses). http://www.uhnd.com/articles/nfl-irish/weiss-buyout-21-million/ http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-02-27/wizards-still-looking-at-possibility-of-bibby-buyout This is his life. This is how he feeds him self. He isn't cheating TSL, he's fairly living up to his end of the contract. While doing what's best for your self may be "selfish", it isn't immoral if your not cheating or doing anything illegal. | ||
|
00Visor
4337 Posts
I begin to think that the way Coach Lee acts actually is a big part of why so many players are leaving TSL. | ||
|
xsevR
United States324 Posts
Anyways, contracts are voluntary and its perfectly acceptable for Alive to seek other opportunities, especially since he seems willing to pay the fee. Unless he actually signed a contract with Fnatic, I still don't see what he's done wrong yet. Is it a breach of contract to even speak with other teams? | ||
|
zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On January 19 2012 01:32 Jackle wrote: Although Coach Lee overreacted and went to the Korean press too early, isn't this the same situation with Puma, a foreign team contacted the player first before talking with management. Coach Lee always overreacting o.O | ||
|
Fraidnot
United States824 Posts
| ||
|
Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On January 19 2012 04:08 Plansix wrote: Fnatic's translator, who happened to also be aLive's friend, talks about being signed by Fnatic. I do not know if they directly employee him or if he is just the translator they normally hire, but he is not the head of team. That is not reaching out in any terms, legal or otherwise. No offer was made(the first part of a contract) and I don't think the translator could have made the offer by himself. If the translator isn't employeed directly by Fnatic, it is just two friends talking about what team aLive will go to when he leaves. So Alive was already planning to leave Fnatic before asking around? If so, why is coach Lee making such a big deal about it? Surely there is some suspicion or evidence that Alive left because he found another team. I guess we'll just have to wait for more information for this thing to clear up, if it ever will. | ||
|
Hrrrrm
United States2081 Posts
On January 19 2012 04:19 xsevR wrote: Seems like Alive got a pretty raw deal on that contract (then again I don't know his salary), but it makes perfect sense to me from his PoV--Would you want to pay 9000USD to quit your job before even trying to find a new one? Anyways, contracts are voluntary and its perfectly acceptable for Alive to seek other opportunities, especially since he seems willing to pay the fee. Unless he actually signed a contract with Fnatic, I still don't see what he's done wrong yet. Is it a breach of contract to even speak with other teams? It is frowned upon simply due to the fact that it creates nonstop turmoil. Do you want to worry every single day that a team can at any moment come to a player of yours with an offer and lose him immediately? Instead of worrying about your players performance and practice you now have this constant worry. That's why in most major sports there are periods where talks between all parties are allowed to occur. So that you have these limited windows and then you get back to worrying 100% about the competition until the next period. | ||
|
GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
| ||
|
alhazrel
98 Posts
'you want to sign him after his contract ends, so we don't make any money from the transfer despite having invested financially in his training and having our sponsorships resting on an ever weakening roster - no, i don't think so' 'hey alive, your contract ends in july, where you gonna live bro? either sign a new one with us or move out and good luck making a living' 'oh maaan, but then I won't have any income and I don't know if anyone else even wants me - I don't like this team particularly but I do like to eat' 'so are you going to sign on? obviously if an offer comes in for you we'll pass it on - we aren't going to force you to stay hahaha' 'oh sure then, I'll sign on with you for another year' 'oh he signed on for another year with them - must want to stay.. well we won't try to prise him away then' 'hey fnatic bro's, you can have him if you want but it'll cost you muchos won' 'sorry, now we have to pay you a fee in addition to the wages alive wants it isn't a worthwhile investment for us' | ||
|
Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
| ||
|
dragoon
United States695 Posts
 but yay for Moon having another teammate on fnatic! :D | ||
|
Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
On January 19 2012 04:12 Vadrigar wrote: What kind of a douche sniffs on his players' chat logs!?! Is "coach" Lee North Korean? And then goes to the media crying they didn't contact me first! They don't have to! Having a contract with a player doesn't make him the coach's slave. He can negotiate with other teams if he wants to. The only thing that Fnatic had to do is pay/do whatever is needed to get him out of his old contract. Which I'm sure they would've done quietly, if it wasn't for coach Lee's public whining. This is also the second time he has done this. Clearly something's wrong with the guy. User was warned for this post There are cultural boundaries that make these types of negotiations a sensitive issue. In Korean culture, it is proper to talk to the coach first before contacting the player. Also, you don't know if it stated in the contract that Alive had whether it prohibited talking to other teams. If it did, then Alive would be in breach of contract and Coach Lee would have every right to pursue legal recourse and be upset. | ||
|
EnderCraft
United States1746 Posts
| ||
|
woody60707
United States1863 Posts
On January 19 2012 04:34 alhazrel wrote: 'hey coach, we'd like to talk to alive about signing him when his contract ends with you, do you mind?' 'you want to sign him after his contract ends, so we don't make any money from the transfer despite having invested financially in his training and having our sponsorships resting on an ever weakening roster - no, i don't think so' 'hey alive, your contract ends in july, where you gonna live bro? either sign a new one with us or move out and good luck making a living' 'oh maaan, but then I won't have any income and I don't know if anyone else even wants me - I don't like this team particularly but I do like to eat' 'so are you going to sign on? obviously if an offer comes in for you we'll pass it on - we aren't going to force you to stay hahaha' 'oh sure then, I'll sign on with you for another year' 'oh he signed on for another year with them - must want to stay.. well we won't try to prise him away then' 'hey fnatic bro's, you can have him if you want but it'll cost you muchos won' 'sorry, now we have to pay you a fee in addition to the wages alive wants it isn't a worthwhile investment for us' Sir, I wouldn't want to call what you posted as made up BS, but I would ask how you come about such a conclusion of facts? | ||
|
scronaldo
United States19 Posts
aLive was talking with his friend (who also happens to be the translator for fnatic) on skype. aLive was probably discussing his desire to leave TSL as things for the team have been going a bit down hill with player transfers and all around discomfort in the house. His friend (fnatic translator) could have mentioned that he could be a good fit for fnatic blah blah blah and it would be fun/cool for aLive to be a part of fnatic as he could be with his friend, in a sense. aLive very well could have agreed that that sounded like a good idea.... etc etc. From Fnatic's point of view it sounds like they never contacted their translator to start prodding at aLive. although it is important before this all blows out of proportion (oops too late).... THAT LEE SHOULD PROBABLY RELEASE THE SKYPE CONVO although he probably won't do that because he feels like a fool for assuming the fnatic translator was sent to poach aLive from TSL. When in reality it was probably just a theoretical suggestion from one friend to another. gg | ||
|
zz_
Sweden1022 Posts
On January 19 2012 01:23 Pandemona wrote: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ SPOILER TAG MAYBE FML t.t These comments piss me off something immensely. If you don't want to be spoiled about recent results from the biggest SC2 tournament there is, how about you don't go to a site that calls itself a "Starcraft 2 and Brood War Pro Gaming News" website before checking out the matches yourself. Christ. On topic: As often is the case with the TSL affairs, accusations are flying everywhere and it's hard to tell who's done what wrong. After how aLive played today though I hope it works out alright for him, would be a real shame for him not to end up on a team seeing how good he is. | ||
| ||
