• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:31
CEST 03:31
KST 10:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
Soulkey on ASL S20 A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 General Discussion Pros React To: SoulKey's 5-Peat Challenge
Tourneys
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch [ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1592 users

Intimate ZvX with Stoic - Page 26

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 24 25 26 27 28 53 Next
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
May 09 2012 18:08 GMT
#501
On May 10 2012 02:58 smwatkin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 02:45 ixi.genocide wrote:
On May 09 2012 21:45 Hairy wrote:
Here's one then - cannon rushing, walling in, pylon blocking. What is the zerg's best 'reply' and how best to defend these?

at 16 supply send down 1 drone to patrol the area below your ramp, if you are going gasless expand send another drone down to try and get the hatch early, this way you can use both drones to fight the probe for the hatch as well.


Regret never wants to sacrifice a drone (and thus, econ) so he doesn't do this. That would be the hard counter or 'hard prevention' though. There is, however, a way to play against this. I'll see if we can arrange a "CombatEX" style cannon cheese to make a VOD. iMpDuster should be game.

I regret to inform you that replay would be MAGIKL.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
smwatkin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada399 Posts
May 09 2012 18:31 GMT
#502
On May 10 2012 03:08 Holcan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 02:58 smwatkin wrote:
On May 10 2012 02:45 ixi.genocide wrote:
On May 09 2012 21:45 Hairy wrote:
Here's one then - cannon rushing, walling in, pylon blocking. What is the zerg's best 'reply' and how best to defend these?

at 16 supply send down 1 drone to patrol the area below your ramp, if you are going gasless expand send another drone down to try and get the hatch early, this way you can use both drones to fight the probe for the hatch as well.


Regret never wants to sacrifice a drone (and thus, econ) so he doesn't do this. That would be the hard counter or 'hard prevention' though. There is, however, a way to play against this. I'll see if we can arrange a "CombatEX" style cannon cheese to make a VOD. iMpDuster should be game.

I regret to inform you that replay would be MAGIKL.


I see what you did there...... HAH.

Also, guys. Buy your NASL tickets. I live close by... maybe I'll have an Intimate ZvX with stoic Party at the Landing strip.
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
May 09 2012 18:35 GMT
#503
On May 10 2012 02:58 smwatkin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 02:45 ixi.genocide wrote:
On May 09 2012 21:45 Hairy wrote:
Here's one then - cannon rushing, walling in, pylon blocking. What is the zerg's best 'reply' and how best to defend these?

at 16 supply send down 1 drone to patrol the area below your ramp, if you are going gasless expand send another drone down to try and get the hatch early, this way you can use both drones to fight the probe for the hatch as well.


Regret never wants to sacrifice a drone (and thus, econ) so he doesn't do this. That would be the hard counter or 'hard prevention' though. There is, however, a way to play against this. I'll see if we can arrange a "CombatEX" style cannon cheese to make a VOD. iMpDuster should be game.

Sounds great!
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 09 2012 18:41 GMT
#504
On May 10 2012 03:00 RyanRushia wrote:
david tran is hot

glad to see he's still around and that stoic is alive and kicking


We make sexy time.

Veddy nice.
smwatkin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada399 Posts
May 09 2012 19:55 GMT
#505
On May 10 2012 03:04 Drumz wrote:
*stoic zergs are alive xD


all 2 of us. Haha
joshie0808
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1024 Posts
May 09 2012 22:07 GMT
#506
Hey guys,
I just have a question about how I approach the flow of ZvZ and whether my though process is correct.
Basically my approach is: hatch first (drone scout on 13) then pool and focus on getting overlords to opponent’s natural and along the main attack path. I scout for pool timing and hatch timing. If he opened super early pool I cancel hatch make spines and try to hold with drones and stall till my lings come. If he opened speed I get a spine and double queen to block ramp. If he went for hatch first then I drone up and try to match his ling count but be a ‘rotation’ ahead (so make drones until he moves out to attack me then stay even on army units).

My problem is I often get lost after this point. I’m not sure when to get gas.. the number to get and lair and macro hatch timings. I feel most comfortable with roach/infestor roach/hydra/infestor compositions but getting to that composition is what im fuzzy with. Currently I’ve just been trying to get lings into the opponent’s main and if he took gas then I take gas. I throw down a baneling nest defensively usually (because I don’t know what to scout that can tell me to skip this). Also in the games I play I usually feel like im ahead in drone count/macro and I take a third base only to find that I’m stuck with a roach army and he went mutas which kill my 3rd and drones and I cant bust his nat due to spines and lings.

TLDR:
Gas timings – when and how many when trying to reach roach/infestor or roach/hydra infestor
Tech timing – how do I know its safe to lair? Safe to put down infestation pit or hydra den?
3rd base – when to take (given no significant losses) when going for said composition?
Scouting – How to know hes not doing a banelig allin, or going mutas?

Thanks a bunch you guys
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 09 2012 22:23 GMT
#507
Accepting replays of all levels. Send them to nuvostarcraft@gmail.com. We're looking to do some VODs going over others' replays.
smwatkin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada399 Posts
May 09 2012 22:30 GMT
#508
right now.....
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 10 2012 00:36 GMT
#509
Just finished the VODs for ZvP week! Uploading now...
Valravn
Profile Joined January 2009
Sweden64 Posts
May 10 2012 03:04 GMT
#510
You guys are exceptionally awesome. Thanks a lot for all your work!
Idra rage makes me moist
DoctorHot
Profile Joined September 2011
United States42 Posts
May 10 2012 04:11 GMT
#511
Hey here's a potential question for next week - when you're a Best of 3 or 5 situation, I assume you might want to switch up your build orders somewhat. I suppose for most lower-tier guys like myself this isn't too important, but how would you deal with something like that?
smwatkin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada399 Posts
May 10 2012 04:28 GMT
#512
On May 10 2012 13:11 DoctorHot wrote:
Hey here's a potential question for next week - when you're a Best of 3 or 5 situation, I assume you might want to switch up your build orders somewhat. I suppose for most lower-tier guys like myself this isn't too important, but how would you deal with something like that?


That's an excellent question... David will be able to answer this perfectly. He has an extensive amount of experience with professional mind games. Played pro BW and WC3 and a Bo3/Bo5 is a completely different type of beast that just Bo1 on the ladder.
sanctuz
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway184 Posts
May 10 2012 06:01 GMT
#513
Yey new update, loved the BM @ ImpBalls ! Haha, btw Nuvo, is it possible to either say on stream, or put the name of the music you play in each clip in the description ? <3
romelako
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States373 Posts
May 10 2012 06:06 GMT
#514
A very picky question but when watching players like Stephano, NesTea and DRG, I notice that they wait until they get optimal saturation (16) and just rally the rest of the drones to their other bases. Is this the most optimal way to go about this? I notice that you, David, just transfer like a few drones and even out your saturation later on. Is this just a preference/stylistic thing or is there really a benefit to maynarding as opposed to rallying new drones to new bases?
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 10 2012 06:12 GMT
#515
On May 10 2012 15:06 romelako wrote:
A very picky question but when watching players like Stephano, NesTea and DRG, I notice that they wait until they get optimal saturation (16) and just rally the rest of the drones to their other bases. Is this the most optimal way to go about this? I notice that you, David, just transfer like a few drones and even out your saturation later on. Is this just a preference/stylistic thing or is there really a benefit to maynarding as opposed to rallying new drones to new bases?


It is a styalistic thing. Stephano does both, because Stephano does whatever he feels like... literally. DRG will only maynard drones on maps where the 1st and 3rd base are close to each other; on maps such as entombed valley, he builds the 3rd queen at the 3rd base, and rallies drones over instead of maynarding. Nestea transfers the way i do, 1-2 at a time, or if you are over saturated, 6-7. Also, when building drones in the heat of battle, oversaturation will force you to maynard drones regardless of your preference.

Just a note: 16 drones on minerals is not optimal saturation, forget what the people say about the math. Optimal saturation is based on # of bases and what you are trying to build and transition into. What I am saying is the # of drones you get should not dictate what you are going to produce, rather what you are trying to produce should determine how many drones you get. 16 drones on minerals over 3 bases is "optimal" vs X push at X time vs X match-up on X map. Also, if you have 19 drones at one base, and 13 on another, it will hinder you more to transfer 3 drones over, since the game is played on Faster speed, and you are probably going to be buidling more bases / drones in the near future, before this 3 drone transfer actually does anything beneficial (if you did the math, the maynarding of 3 drones will probably only kick into affect 10 minutes later).

romelako
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States373 Posts
May 10 2012 06:34 GMT
#516
Another question regarding spotting the Protoss gasses. My general rule of thumb is at 6:30 I'll check his gasses in the natural (this is assuming he opens FFE) and if there are none, I'll immediately drop my roach warren and delay my evo chamber a bit. If there are gasses, then I go for the standard 7-minute roach warren. Is this a proper rule of thumb?

If they don't have gasses, I assume 4-gate with lots of zealots, which hits around 8 minutes. Am I building lings to counter this or am I saving up the larva for roaches? Is it too greedy to even try to grab ling-speed, lair or +1 attack? I've seen higher-leveled players get lings to pre-emptively stop the pylon/zealots from coming up--what are your opinions on this?

I know, lots of questions. Thanks in advanced! ^^
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 10 2012 07:08 GMT
#517
On May 10 2012 15:34 romelako wrote:
Another question regarding spotting the Protoss gasses. My general rule of thumb is at 6:30 I'll check his gasses in the natural (this is assuming he opens FFE) and if there are none, I'll immediately drop my roach warren and delay my evo chamber a bit. If there are gasses, then I go for the standard 7-minute roach warren. Is this a proper rule of thumb?

If they don't have gasses, I assume 4-gate with lots of zealots, which hits around 8 minutes. Am I building lings to counter this or am I saving up the larva for roaches? Is it too greedy to even try to grab ling-speed, lair or +1 attack? I've seen higher-leveled players get lings to pre-emptively stop the pylon/zealots from coming up--what are your opinions on this?

I know, lots of questions. Thanks in advanced! ^^


Building your roach warren at 6:30 every game is viable as well. It really comes down to how comfortable you are on specific maps. Do not forget, in order for protoss to apply pressure, they need to place down a forward pylon. It is possible to delay pressure by simply being annoying with lings.

I recommend placing a spine down if you suspect 4-5 gate heavy zealot/stalker pressure. Your roaches will not be out in time to efficiently stop these pushes without a spine, and you would be forced to skip lair or speed in order to get out 4 roaches (which is really taxing on your economy).
ErrorNA
Profile Joined November 2010
United States86 Posts
May 10 2012 08:08 GMT
#518
Man i hate laddering, i just lose the the gayest stuff.

how are you supposed to come back in a game where the guy blocks the natural and the third? or do you have to do a sucky all in that he is going to be prepared for?

and how are you supposed to deal with random stuff that is done completely blind?

man i guess thats zerg.... but seriously im raging Ha.
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 10 2012 09:49 GMT
#519
Episode 19 is up on youtube. When shawn wakes up, he will update the thread. Thanks for watching everyone!
smwatkin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada399 Posts
May 10 2012 13:06 GMT
#520
On May 10 2012 17:08 ErrorNA wrote:
Man i hate laddering, i just lose the the gayest stuff.

how are you supposed to come back in a game where the guy blocks the natural and the third? or do you have to do a sucky all in that he is going to be prepared for?

and how are you supposed to deal with random stuff that is done completely blind?

man i guess thats zerg.... but seriously im raging Ha.


I If he blocks the natural you should get your overlord on 15 and 4 lings while running to the third with your drone. If he's dropping 2 pylons it puts him more behind than you.
Prev 1 24 25 26 27 28 53 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
19:00
Mid Season Playoffs
Spirit vs PercivalLIVE!
Cham vs TBD
ByuN vs Jumy
SteadfastSC963
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 963
RuFF_SC2 109
Nathanias 100
ProTech61
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2353
Artosis 799
Shuttle 644
Light 124
Sharp 95
NaDa 33
Icarus 4
Dota 2
monkeys_forever932
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Fnx 358
Other Games
summit1g7108
JimRising 362
C9.Mang0295
Maynarde128
NeuroSwarm105
Trikslyr50
ViBE44
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick871
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH116
• davetesta35
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1260
• imaqtpie1197
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
8h 29m
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
Map Test Tournament
9h 29m
The PondCast
11h 29m
RSL Revival
1d 8h
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Online Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.