• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:21
CET 07:21
KST 15:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion5Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 105
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Fantasy's Q&A video BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion
Tourneys
[BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1093 users

Intimate ZvX with Stoic - Page 26

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 24 25 26 27 28 53 Next
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
May 09 2012 18:08 GMT
#501
On May 10 2012 02:58 smwatkin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 02:45 ixi.genocide wrote:
On May 09 2012 21:45 Hairy wrote:
Here's one then - cannon rushing, walling in, pylon blocking. What is the zerg's best 'reply' and how best to defend these?

at 16 supply send down 1 drone to patrol the area below your ramp, if you are going gasless expand send another drone down to try and get the hatch early, this way you can use both drones to fight the probe for the hatch as well.


Regret never wants to sacrifice a drone (and thus, econ) so he doesn't do this. That would be the hard counter or 'hard prevention' though. There is, however, a way to play against this. I'll see if we can arrange a "CombatEX" style cannon cheese to make a VOD. iMpDuster should be game.

I regret to inform you that replay would be MAGIKL.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
smwatkin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada399 Posts
May 09 2012 18:31 GMT
#502
On May 10 2012 03:08 Holcan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 02:58 smwatkin wrote:
On May 10 2012 02:45 ixi.genocide wrote:
On May 09 2012 21:45 Hairy wrote:
Here's one then - cannon rushing, walling in, pylon blocking. What is the zerg's best 'reply' and how best to defend these?

at 16 supply send down 1 drone to patrol the area below your ramp, if you are going gasless expand send another drone down to try and get the hatch early, this way you can use both drones to fight the probe for the hatch as well.


Regret never wants to sacrifice a drone (and thus, econ) so he doesn't do this. That would be the hard counter or 'hard prevention' though. There is, however, a way to play against this. I'll see if we can arrange a "CombatEX" style cannon cheese to make a VOD. iMpDuster should be game.

I regret to inform you that replay would be MAGIKL.


I see what you did there...... HAH.

Also, guys. Buy your NASL tickets. I live close by... maybe I'll have an Intimate ZvX with stoic Party at the Landing strip.
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
May 09 2012 18:35 GMT
#503
On May 10 2012 02:58 smwatkin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 02:45 ixi.genocide wrote:
On May 09 2012 21:45 Hairy wrote:
Here's one then - cannon rushing, walling in, pylon blocking. What is the zerg's best 'reply' and how best to defend these?

at 16 supply send down 1 drone to patrol the area below your ramp, if you are going gasless expand send another drone down to try and get the hatch early, this way you can use both drones to fight the probe for the hatch as well.


Regret never wants to sacrifice a drone (and thus, econ) so he doesn't do this. That would be the hard counter or 'hard prevention' though. There is, however, a way to play against this. I'll see if we can arrange a "CombatEX" style cannon cheese to make a VOD. iMpDuster should be game.

Sounds great!
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 09 2012 18:41 GMT
#504
On May 10 2012 03:00 RyanRushia wrote:
david tran is hot

glad to see he's still around and that stoic is alive and kicking


We make sexy time.

Veddy nice.
smwatkin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada399 Posts
May 09 2012 19:55 GMT
#505
On May 10 2012 03:04 Drumz wrote:
*stoic zergs are alive xD


all 2 of us. Haha
joshie0808
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1024 Posts
May 09 2012 22:07 GMT
#506
Hey guys,
I just have a question about how I approach the flow of ZvZ and whether my though process is correct.
Basically my approach is: hatch first (drone scout on 13) then pool and focus on getting overlords to opponent’s natural and along the main attack path. I scout for pool timing and hatch timing. If he opened super early pool I cancel hatch make spines and try to hold with drones and stall till my lings come. If he opened speed I get a spine and double queen to block ramp. If he went for hatch first then I drone up and try to match his ling count but be a ‘rotation’ ahead (so make drones until he moves out to attack me then stay even on army units).

My problem is I often get lost after this point. I’m not sure when to get gas.. the number to get and lair and macro hatch timings. I feel most comfortable with roach/infestor roach/hydra/infestor compositions but getting to that composition is what im fuzzy with. Currently I’ve just been trying to get lings into the opponent’s main and if he took gas then I take gas. I throw down a baneling nest defensively usually (because I don’t know what to scout that can tell me to skip this). Also in the games I play I usually feel like im ahead in drone count/macro and I take a third base only to find that I’m stuck with a roach army and he went mutas which kill my 3rd and drones and I cant bust his nat due to spines and lings.

TLDR:
Gas timings – when and how many when trying to reach roach/infestor or roach/hydra infestor
Tech timing – how do I know its safe to lair? Safe to put down infestation pit or hydra den?
3rd base – when to take (given no significant losses) when going for said composition?
Scouting – How to know hes not doing a banelig allin, or going mutas?

Thanks a bunch you guys
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 09 2012 22:23 GMT
#507
Accepting replays of all levels. Send them to nuvostarcraft@gmail.com. We're looking to do some VODs going over others' replays.
smwatkin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada399 Posts
May 09 2012 22:30 GMT
#508
right now.....
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 10 2012 00:36 GMT
#509
Just finished the VODs for ZvP week! Uploading now...
Valravn
Profile Joined January 2009
Sweden64 Posts
May 10 2012 03:04 GMT
#510
You guys are exceptionally awesome. Thanks a lot for all your work!
Idra rage makes me moist
DoctorHot
Profile Joined September 2011
United States42 Posts
May 10 2012 04:11 GMT
#511
Hey here's a potential question for next week - when you're a Best of 3 or 5 situation, I assume you might want to switch up your build orders somewhat. I suppose for most lower-tier guys like myself this isn't too important, but how would you deal with something like that?
smwatkin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada399 Posts
May 10 2012 04:28 GMT
#512
On May 10 2012 13:11 DoctorHot wrote:
Hey here's a potential question for next week - when you're a Best of 3 or 5 situation, I assume you might want to switch up your build orders somewhat. I suppose for most lower-tier guys like myself this isn't too important, but how would you deal with something like that?


That's an excellent question... David will be able to answer this perfectly. He has an extensive amount of experience with professional mind games. Played pro BW and WC3 and a Bo3/Bo5 is a completely different type of beast that just Bo1 on the ladder.
sanctuz
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway184 Posts
May 10 2012 06:01 GMT
#513
Yey new update, loved the BM @ ImpBalls ! Haha, btw Nuvo, is it possible to either say on stream, or put the name of the music you play in each clip in the description ? <3
romelako
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States373 Posts
May 10 2012 06:06 GMT
#514
A very picky question but when watching players like Stephano, NesTea and DRG, I notice that they wait until they get optimal saturation (16) and just rally the rest of the drones to their other bases. Is this the most optimal way to go about this? I notice that you, David, just transfer like a few drones and even out your saturation later on. Is this just a preference/stylistic thing or is there really a benefit to maynarding as opposed to rallying new drones to new bases?
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 10 2012 06:12 GMT
#515
On May 10 2012 15:06 romelako wrote:
A very picky question but when watching players like Stephano, NesTea and DRG, I notice that they wait until they get optimal saturation (16) and just rally the rest of the drones to their other bases. Is this the most optimal way to go about this? I notice that you, David, just transfer like a few drones and even out your saturation later on. Is this just a preference/stylistic thing or is there really a benefit to maynarding as opposed to rallying new drones to new bases?


It is a styalistic thing. Stephano does both, because Stephano does whatever he feels like... literally. DRG will only maynard drones on maps where the 1st and 3rd base are close to each other; on maps such as entombed valley, he builds the 3rd queen at the 3rd base, and rallies drones over instead of maynarding. Nestea transfers the way i do, 1-2 at a time, or if you are over saturated, 6-7. Also, when building drones in the heat of battle, oversaturation will force you to maynard drones regardless of your preference.

Just a note: 16 drones on minerals is not optimal saturation, forget what the people say about the math. Optimal saturation is based on # of bases and what you are trying to build and transition into. What I am saying is the # of drones you get should not dictate what you are going to produce, rather what you are trying to produce should determine how many drones you get. 16 drones on minerals over 3 bases is "optimal" vs X push at X time vs X match-up on X map. Also, if you have 19 drones at one base, and 13 on another, it will hinder you more to transfer 3 drones over, since the game is played on Faster speed, and you are probably going to be buidling more bases / drones in the near future, before this 3 drone transfer actually does anything beneficial (if you did the math, the maynarding of 3 drones will probably only kick into affect 10 minutes later).

romelako
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States373 Posts
May 10 2012 06:34 GMT
#516
Another question regarding spotting the Protoss gasses. My general rule of thumb is at 6:30 I'll check his gasses in the natural (this is assuming he opens FFE) and if there are none, I'll immediately drop my roach warren and delay my evo chamber a bit. If there are gasses, then I go for the standard 7-minute roach warren. Is this a proper rule of thumb?

If they don't have gasses, I assume 4-gate with lots of zealots, which hits around 8 minutes. Am I building lings to counter this or am I saving up the larva for roaches? Is it too greedy to even try to grab ling-speed, lair or +1 attack? I've seen higher-leveled players get lings to pre-emptively stop the pylon/zealots from coming up--what are your opinions on this?

I know, lots of questions. Thanks in advanced! ^^
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 10 2012 07:08 GMT
#517
On May 10 2012 15:34 romelako wrote:
Another question regarding spotting the Protoss gasses. My general rule of thumb is at 6:30 I'll check his gasses in the natural (this is assuming he opens FFE) and if there are none, I'll immediately drop my roach warren and delay my evo chamber a bit. If there are gasses, then I go for the standard 7-minute roach warren. Is this a proper rule of thumb?

If they don't have gasses, I assume 4-gate with lots of zealots, which hits around 8 minutes. Am I building lings to counter this or am I saving up the larva for roaches? Is it too greedy to even try to grab ling-speed, lair or +1 attack? I've seen higher-leveled players get lings to pre-emptively stop the pylon/zealots from coming up--what are your opinions on this?

I know, lots of questions. Thanks in advanced! ^^


Building your roach warren at 6:30 every game is viable as well. It really comes down to how comfortable you are on specific maps. Do not forget, in order for protoss to apply pressure, they need to place down a forward pylon. It is possible to delay pressure by simply being annoying with lings.

I recommend placing a spine down if you suspect 4-5 gate heavy zealot/stalker pressure. Your roaches will not be out in time to efficiently stop these pushes without a spine, and you would be forced to skip lair or speed in order to get out 4 roaches (which is really taxing on your economy).
ErrorNA
Profile Joined November 2010
United States86 Posts
May 10 2012 08:08 GMT
#518
Man i hate laddering, i just lose the the gayest stuff.

how are you supposed to come back in a game where the guy blocks the natural and the third? or do you have to do a sucky all in that he is going to be prepared for?

and how are you supposed to deal with random stuff that is done completely blind?

man i guess thats zerg.... but seriously im raging Ha.
stoicRegret
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada206 Posts
May 10 2012 09:49 GMT
#519
Episode 19 is up on youtube. When shawn wakes up, he will update the thread. Thanks for watching everyone!
smwatkin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada399 Posts
May 10 2012 13:06 GMT
#520
On May 10 2012 17:08 ErrorNA wrote:
Man i hate laddering, i just lose the the gayest stuff.

how are you supposed to come back in a game where the guy blocks the natural and the third? or do you have to do a sucky all in that he is going to be prepared for?

and how are you supposed to deal with random stuff that is done completely blind?

man i guess thats zerg.... but seriously im raging Ha.


I If he blocks the natural you should get your overlord on 15 and 4 lings while running to the third with your drone. If he's dropping 2 pylons it puts him more behind than you.
Prev 1 24 25 26 27 28 53 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
All-Star Invitational
03:00
Day 2
herO vs SolarLIVE!
Clem vs Reynor
Rogue vs Oliveira
WardiTV1505
PiGStarcraft792
BRAT_OK 197
EnkiAlexander 101
3DClanTV 99
IntoTheiNu 24
LiquipediaDiscussion
AI Arena Tournament
20:00
Swiss - Round 2
Laughngamez YouTube
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft792
WinterStarcraft774
BRAT_OK 203
IndyStarCraft 150
UpATreeSC 55
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 4431
Shuttle 633
EffOrt 311
Pusan 163
ggaemo 140
yabsab 35
ZergMaN 30
ajuk12(nOOB) 25
Models 9
Dota 2
febbydoto68
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 781
C9.Mang0575
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King23
Other Games
summit1g7489
RuFF_SC286
minikerr34
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1757
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 86
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt534
Other Games
• Scarra1677
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 39m
OSC
5h 39m
Shameless vs NightMare
YoungYakov vs MaNa
Nicoract vs Jumy
Gerald vs TBD
Creator vs TBD
BSL 21
13h 39m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs DuGu
Dewalt vs Bonyth
IPSL
13h 39m
Dewalt vs Sziky
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Wardi Open
1d 5h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 10h
The PondCast
3 days
Big Brain Bouts
5 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.