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TSL claims Fnatic tampered with Alive, Fnatic denies - Pag…

Forum Index > SC2 General
1081 CommentsPost a Reply
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Discussing the controversy and stating your opinions in a constructive way is fine, but there will be bans for any player/organization bashing without anything to substantiate it.
emraaa
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany505 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 14:04:36
January 18 2012 14:04 GMT
#681

But you aren't right in accusing him because we don't know anything. Of course we know what they are saying publicly, but not everything will be certain until everything is settled.


So how will it be settled, if u dont accept the anouncement of the involved party
Sure as the dust that floats high and true, when movin through kashmir
BasilForSkin
Profile Joined June 2011
United States115 Posts
January 18 2012 14:06 GMT
#682
On January 18 2012 23:04 emraaa wrote:
Show nested quote +

But you aren't right in accusing him because we don't know anything. Of course we know what they are saying publicly, but not everything will be certain until everything is settled.


So how will it be settled, if u dont accept the anouncement of the involved party

It will be settled when Coach Lee, aLive, and Fnatic come to some sort of terms. As of now, it's all still an ongoing conflict.
sup
Proko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1022 Posts
January 18 2012 14:06 GMT
#683
On January 18 2012 23:03 BasilForSkin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 23:00 Proko wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:55 BasilForSkin wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:45 emraaa wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:40 BasilForSkin wrote:
I like how so many of you are accusing TSL of having some sort of internal problem, as if you know anything whatsoever. Stop accusing Coach Lee of wrong doing and allow things to work out before you pass judgement.


he should stop accusing fnatic ....

Perhaps he is right to accuse them. We don't know anything. He has a much better idea of what is going on, so again, people should wait for things to play out before passing judgement.
On January 18 2012 22:45 ReboundEU wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:44 BasilForSkin wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:42 ReboundEU wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:40 BasilForSkin wrote:
I like how so many of you are accusing TSL of having some sort of internal problem, as if you know anything whatsoever. Stop accusing Coach Lee of wrong doing and allow things to work out before you pass judgement.


Oh u must be this guy

Wow, you sure got me. I'm not going to even bother trying to be sensible here, that would be outrageous!


hahaha :D thumbs up m8

I don't even know how to respond to this without getting banned.
On January 18 2012 22:45 Junichi wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:40 BasilForSkin wrote:
I like how so many of you are accusing TSL of having some sort of internal problem, as if you know anything whatsoever. Stop accusing Coach Lee of wrong doing and allow things to work out before you pass judgement.


People are not saying they know, they assume or guess, based on what has happened this time and in the past. (Namely being that a few players left TSL out of their own will.)

If we are giving out opinions based on previous events, then why would TSL be the one to blame here? They have come out as the victim pretty much every time a player has left and caused controversy after (that is, not with cases like JYP, Killer, or Clide because no actual drama happened with them).


I think the point is that we can all see that TSL has a lot of trouble keeping players on their roster, and Coach Lee is really good at causing drama. Thus people are becoming suspicious of TSL and Coach Lee.

Really good at causing drama? He is trying to protect his team. If that means making public statements about people wrongdoing him and his team, then that shouldn't be considered a bad thing.


The first couple times I could see that point of view, but you really have to start wonder why nobody but TSL is having these problems. Once again, players leave TSL at a much higher rate than your average team.
Caster duos should compliment each others' strengths. "You look very handsome today, Tasteless."
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 14:18:27
January 18 2012 14:10 GMT
#684
Here's a list of why various players left TSL:
Rain: Was moving to US with his father
PuMa: Dirty money, as Clide described it
Fruitdealer & TricksteR: disagreement with Coach Lee
JYP: Left because of the new and tougher practice regiment Coach Lee implemented some months ago
SangHo: Same as JYP
Clide: Asked to be released of his contract so he could play with his friend in SlayerS, Coach Lee released him from his contract, and Clide joined Slayers.

Now if i we look upon all these reasons, none of them really stated any problem with Coach Lee personally (if we exclude the FD/TesteR issue). Some people couldnt handle the practice regmiment (Remember Coach Lee is in fact the former MBC Hero coach, and BW schedules is said to be a lot tougher than sc2 schedules). Puma & Rain both said that they were on good terms with coach lee after their transfer, and Rain even stayed at the TSL house just a couple of weeks ago. I think the real problem with TSL might be the though practice schedule.
sVnteen
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2238 Posts
January 18 2012 14:13 GMT
#685
wow this is really silly lol

why did coach lee even think that alive signed a contract with fnatic? just because of this one conversation? and how did he even know about that conversation?
MY LIFE STARTS NOW ♥
babybell
Profile Joined June 2011
776 Posts
January 18 2012 14:15 GMT
#686
Now this is getting ridiculous.
Coach Lee is becoming a total joke from my perspective as a casual esports fan.
There is no way all these can be true:
1) Puma has been STOLEN from TSL by EG without him knowing
2) Trickster and Fruitdealer lied about being treated badly/ not being paid.
3) JYP, Killer, Clide (3 of the 5 best players, possibly top 3) were sent off as part of a master plan.
4) Fnatic attempted to STEAL aLive from them.
BasilForSkin
Profile Joined June 2011
United States115 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 14:17:33
January 18 2012 14:16 GMT
#687
On January 18 2012 23:06 Proko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 23:03 BasilForSkin wrote:
On January 18 2012 23:00 Proko wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:55 BasilForSkin wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:45 emraaa wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:40 BasilForSkin wrote:
I like how so many of you are accusing TSL of having some sort of internal problem, as if you know anything whatsoever. Stop accusing Coach Lee of wrong doing and allow things to work out before you pass judgement.


he should stop accusing fnatic ....

Perhaps he is right to accuse them. We don't know anything. He has a much better idea of what is going on, so again, people should wait for things to play out before passing judgement.
On January 18 2012 22:45 ReboundEU wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:44 BasilForSkin wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:42 ReboundEU wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:40 BasilForSkin wrote:
I like how so many of you are accusing TSL of having some sort of internal problem, as if you know anything whatsoever. Stop accusing Coach Lee of wrong doing and allow things to work out before you pass judgement.


Oh u must be this guy

Wow, you sure got me. I'm not going to even bother trying to be sensible here, that would be outrageous!


hahaha :D thumbs up m8

I don't even know how to respond to this without getting banned.
On January 18 2012 22:45 Junichi wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:40 BasilForSkin wrote:
I like how so many of you are accusing TSL of having some sort of internal problem, as if you know anything whatsoever. Stop accusing Coach Lee of wrong doing and allow things to work out before you pass judgement.


People are not saying they know, they assume or guess, based on what has happened this time and in the past. (Namely being that a few players left TSL out of their own will.)

If we are giving out opinions based on previous events, then why would TSL be the one to blame here? They have come out as the victim pretty much every time a player has left and caused controversy after (that is, not with cases like JYP, Killer, or Clide because no actual drama happened with them).


I think the point is that we can all see that TSL has a lot of trouble keeping players on their roster, and Coach Lee is really good at causing drama. Thus people are becoming suspicious of TSL and Coach Lee.

Really good at causing drama? He is trying to protect his team. If that means making public statements about people wrongdoing him and his team, then that shouldn't be considered a bad thing.


The first couple times I could see that point of view, but you really have to start wonder why nobody but TSL is having these problems. Once again, players leave TSL at a much higher rate than your average team.

Plenty of teams are dealing with players leaving for other teams. Have you seen the players that ZeNEX has lost? TSL has lost plenty of players as well, but a lot of them left on seemingly even terms (Rain, JYP, Killer, and Clide for example). They were upset when Puma left because EG had apparently not talked to TSL at all, which was fine from a legal stand point but not really fair from a Korean culture standpoint. Fruitdealer and Tester also left and caused drama, but they were basically complaining about not getting paid, while apparently not practicing and thereby not doing their jobs, and TSL came out as the clear victim in this case.

In this case, it seems that aLive was contracted unlike Puma, so there is also actual legal concern. We shall see what happens.
sup
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
January 18 2012 14:18 GMT
#688
On January 18 2012 23:15 Abrafred wrote:
3) JYP, Killer, Clide (3 of the 5 best players, possibly top 3) were sent off as part of a master plan.

He has never claimed this, read my post above!
On January 18 2012 23:15 Abrafred wrote:
2) Trickster and Fruitdealer lied about being treated badly/ not being paid.

Was proven at sc2 con that this was infact true. And as far as I'm aware FD/TesteR never said anything about beeing treated badly?
Vul
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States685 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 14:23:43
January 18 2012 14:22 GMT
#689
On January 18 2012 23:16 BasilForSkin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 23:06 Proko wrote:
On January 18 2012 23:03 BasilForSkin wrote:
On January 18 2012 23:00 Proko wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:55 BasilForSkin wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:45 emraaa wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:40 BasilForSkin wrote:
I like how so many of you are accusing TSL of having some sort of internal problem, as if you know anything whatsoever. Stop accusing Coach Lee of wrong doing and allow things to work out before you pass judgement.


he should stop accusing fnatic ....

Perhaps he is right to accuse them. We don't know anything. He has a much better idea of what is going on, so again, people should wait for things to play out before passing judgement.
On January 18 2012 22:45 ReboundEU wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:44 BasilForSkin wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:42 ReboundEU wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:40 BasilForSkin wrote:
I like how so many of you are accusing TSL of having some sort of internal problem, as if you know anything whatsoever. Stop accusing Coach Lee of wrong doing and allow things to work out before you pass judgement.


Oh u must be this guy

Wow, you sure got me. I'm not going to even bother trying to be sensible here, that would be outrageous!


hahaha :D thumbs up m8

I don't even know how to respond to this without getting banned.
On January 18 2012 22:45 Junichi wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:40 BasilForSkin wrote:
I like how so many of you are accusing TSL of having some sort of internal problem, as if you know anything whatsoever. Stop accusing Coach Lee of wrong doing and allow things to work out before you pass judgement.


People are not saying they know, they assume or guess, based on what has happened this time and in the past. (Namely being that a few players left TSL out of their own will.)

If we are giving out opinions based on previous events, then why would TSL be the one to blame here? They have come out as the victim pretty much every time a player has left and caused controversy after (that is, not with cases like JYP, Killer, or Clide because no actual drama happened with them).


I think the point is that we can all see that TSL has a lot of trouble keeping players on their roster, and Coach Lee is really good at causing drama. Thus people are becoming suspicious of TSL and Coach Lee.

Really good at causing drama? He is trying to protect his team. If that means making public statements about people wrongdoing him and his team, then that shouldn't be considered a bad thing.


The first couple times I could see that point of view, but you really have to start wonder why nobody but TSL is having these problems. Once again, players leave TSL at a much higher rate than your average team.

Plenty of teams are dealing with players leaving for other teams. Have you seen the players that ZeNEX has lost? TSL has lost plenty of players as well, but a lot of them left on seemingly even terms (Rain, JYP, Killer, and Clide for example). They were upset when Puma left because EG had apparently not talked to TSL at all, which was fine from a legal stand point but not really fair from a Korean culture standpoint. Fruitdealer and Tester also left and caused drama, but they were basically complaining about not getting paid, while apparently not practicing and thereby not doing their jobs, and TSL came out as the clear victim in this case.

In this case, it seems that aLive was contracted unlike Puma, so there is also actual legal concern. We shall see what happens.


No, plenty of other teams are not dealing with this particular problem. TSL seems to be the only team that chronically has players "stolen" from them.
babybell
Profile Joined June 2011
776 Posts
January 18 2012 14:24 GMT
#690
On January 18 2012 23:18 Eee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 23:15 Abrafred wrote:
3) JYP, Killer, Clide (3 of the 5 best players, possibly top 3) were sent off as part of a master plan.

He has never claimed this, read my post above!
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 23:15 Abrafred wrote:
2) Trickster and Fruitdealer lied about being treated badly/ not being paid.

Was proven at sc2 con that this was infact true. And as far as I'm aware FD/TesteR never said anything about beeing treated badly?

this is from the tl article:
In order to rebuild a strong team, the coach of TSL had no choice but to release his ace players, but his voice was still calm.

and not being paid your contract is a pretty bad treatment. i don't care if it was proven false but it's just one more accusation against coach lee. he can't be on the right side of all these shenanigans.
jellyjello
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)664 Posts
January 18 2012 14:24 GMT
#691
I'm hearing that Alive wanted to leave when Clide and JYP left (when TSL was going through restructuring), but decided to delay it because of his personal circumstance. Not sure if this was agreed between coach Lee and aLive, but nontheless, he decided to stay in TSL and effectively missed his opportunity. But remember that all those who left during that time did so in good terms.

Here is what I think probably went down. (this is all my own speculation to fuel the drama) Fnatic translator finds out that aLive's been looking to get out of TSL. He tells aLive that Fnatic can offer him a spot. aLive packs his bag and tells coach Lee that he's leaving. At the same time, coach Lee is told from Fnatic that their "almost done deal" is now off. Coach Lee connects A and B together and you know the rest.
Invoker
Profile Joined October 2010
Belgium686 Posts
January 18 2012 14:28 GMT
#692
lol TSL again
There is no fate, but what we make.
NuclearJudas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
6546 Posts
January 18 2012 14:28 GMT
#693
Oh darn, even more drama. TSL losing another player makes me sad, as TSL is one of my favourite teams. Hopefully the issue between these two teams can be resolved.

As a side note; If aLive has indeed joined Fnatic, their team is starting to look damn good (Moon, ToD, Nightend, aLive).
Life is like Tetris. Your errors pile up but your accomplishments disappear. - Robert Ohlén | http://railroaddiary.wordpress.com/ - My words about stuff.
ninjamyst
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1903 Posts
January 18 2012 14:28 GMT
#694
Coach Lee sounds like a whiner that likes to point fingers and create drama to get sympathy from the community. Sorry buddy...doesn't work when you keep doing it. Fix your management so your players dont have reasons to leave on bad terms.
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
January 18 2012 14:28 GMT
#695
On January 18 2012 23:24 Abrafred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 23:18 Eee wrote:
On January 18 2012 23:15 Abrafred wrote:
3) JYP, Killer, Clide (3 of the 5 best players, possibly top 3) were sent off as part of a master plan.

He has never claimed this, read my post above!
On January 18 2012 23:15 Abrafred wrote:
2) Trickster and Fruitdealer lied about being treated badly/ not being paid.

Was proven at sc2 con that this was infact true. And as far as I'm aware FD/TesteR never said anything about beeing treated badly?

this is from the tl article:
Show nested quote +
In order to rebuild a strong team, the coach of TSL had no choice but to release his ace players, but his voice was still calm.

and not being paid your contract is a pretty bad treatment. i don't care if it was proven false but it's just one more accusation against coach lee. he can't be on the right side of all these shenanigans.

that is not from an article, that's from a community members translation of korean interview. lol. Coach Lee said to Virgil that was the reason those three players were set free of their contracts.

Not showing up to your job is pretty much deserving it.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44257 Posts
January 18 2012 14:31 GMT
#696
On January 18 2012 22:40 BasilForSkin wrote:
I like how so many of you are accusing TSL of having some sort of internal problem, as if you know anything whatsoever. Stop accusing Coach Lee of wrong doing and allow things to work out before you pass judgement.


Well based on Fnatic's statement, it seems Coach Lee jumped to the conclusion that a player of his was stolen and a player contract was breached when no such things happened. I could see Coach Lee making a big deal out of nothing simply in hopes that all communication breaks down and he keeps his player (good for him, not good for his player- pretty selfish).

Granted, that's assuming you believe Fnatic and not believe TSL, and I don't know about Fnatic's history, but TSL has already had plenty of problems because Coach Lee can't keep track of his players. The two versions of the story are very different, so I don't know if one is completely right, the truth is somewhere in the middle, or if we should just hear what aLive has to say...
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
January 18 2012 14:34 GMT
#697
I'm not surprised that TSL can't keep their players and a lot of their roster are searching for better opportunities elsewhere.
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
January 18 2012 14:37 GMT
#698
seriously, not again >.<
all this drama is killing me, it's just runing e-sports
how
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States538 Posts
January 18 2012 14:38 GMT
#699
I think Coach Lee might just be upset that this is just one of many of his better players that has left the team. TSL has been in a weird stage for a while now. To me, it seems as they are in an eternal "young team" where they have a lot of talent that just needs to develop, but for one reason or another, once the players start to mature, they leave. I am not saying that this has all been going down behind his back, but still, it must be very stressful for him. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if many of the BW pro's go to TSL just because they know he is a solid coach if/when they make the switch (assuming it is player by player, and not an entire team switching at once.)
http://twitter.com/howsc
Wheva
Profile Joined April 2011
United States13 Posts
January 18 2012 14:40 GMT
#700
Rofl, Coach Lee is lying little turd, everytime we turn around TSL has some issues with players or what not, its not the people involved, its Coach Lee, he obviously lies to try to get his way, then refuses to contact afterwards so people cant call out his lies, I honestly dont see TSL lasting much longer, good riddens too
wheh-vuh as in whatever
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