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On January 16 2012 19:09 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 19:06 hmunkey wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. Yeah, in the short-term. The thing is, time spent developing a career or getting an education generally pays off far more, but in the long-term. A progamer might make more than the average 18-23 year old, but if you add up the total amount earned in say 20 years, the average 18-23 year old will be leagues ahead. Of course, by average 18-23 year old, I mean the average educated person in that group. The point is being a progamer is a risk because it involves sacrificing your long-term future for a short burst of cash (which may not even come). Yeah they can go to school later in life, but let's be honest here -- no one is getting a job if they're 30, just graduated, and have no work experience. This is especially true in professional fields. Read up. Destiny cleaned carpets before this, incontrol worked in a gamestop and HD worked in McDonalds. Fruitdealer sold fruit at his parents shop. The pro Sc2 world is not full of would be Doctors, Lawyers and accountants.
Well, Stephano is thinking of becoming a doctor...
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On January 16 2012 19:06 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. Yeah, in the short-term. The thing is, time spent developing a career or getting an education generally pays off far more, but in the long-term. A progamer might make more than the average 18-23 year old, but if you add up the total amount earned in say 20 years, the average 18-23 year old will be leagues ahead. Of course, by average 18-23 year old, I mean the average educated person in that group. The point is being a progamer is a risk because it involves sacrificing your long-term future for a short burst of cash (which may not even come). Yeah they can go to school later in life, but let's be honest here -- no one is getting a job if they're 30, just graduated, and have no work experience. This is especially true in professional fields.
Money is a big part of life but it is not everything. As long as they are happy and getting by, good for them.
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On January 16 2012 19:24 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 19:09 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 19:06 hmunkey wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. Yeah, in the short-term. The thing is, time spent developing a career or getting an education generally pays off far more, but in the long-term. A progamer might make more than the average 18-23 year old, but if you add up the total amount earned in say 20 years, the average 18-23 year old will be leagues ahead. Of course, by average 18-23 year old, I mean the average educated person in that group. The point is being a progamer is a risk because it involves sacrificing your long-term future for a short burst of cash (which may not even come). Yeah they can go to school later in life, but let's be honest here -- no one is getting a job if they're 30, just graduated, and have no work experience. This is especially true in professional fields. Read up. Destiny cleaned carpets before this, incontrol worked in a gamestop and HD worked in McDonalds. Fruitdealer sold fruit at his parents shop. The pro Sc2 world is not full of would be Doctors, Lawyers and accountants. Well, Stephano is thinking of becoming a doctor...
Big difference between thinking about it and actually qualifying as one but even then he's one guy, every other example is the opposite.
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Some people live their whole life playing piano in bars, being a forester, traveling around the world on a boat with their family.
Talking about money when talking about progaming just show how little you understand these guys you cheer for.
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In terms of pure content per post, this is probably the most informative thread I've seen in this section of the forums since...I can't remember.
I wish there were more threads like this.
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On January 16 2012 19:26 W2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 19:06 hmunkey wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. Yeah, in the short-term. The thing is, time spent developing a career or getting an education generally pays off far more, but in the long-term. A progamer might make more than the average 18-23 year old, but if you add up the total amount earned in say 20 years, the average 18-23 year old will be leagues ahead. Of course, by average 18-23 year old, I mean the average educated person in that group. The point is being a progamer is a risk because it involves sacrificing your long-term future for a short burst of cash (which may not even come). Yeah they can go to school later in life, but let's be honest here -- no one is getting a job if they're 30, just graduated, and have no work experience. This is especially true in professional fields. Money is a big part of life but it is not everything. As long as they are happy and getting by, good for them.
100% agreed. If something makes you happy, do it. I'm just talking about the financial aspect.
I can't really fault anyone for following their dreams even if it isn't the best way to lead their life and it would be foolish of me to do so. What I can do is comment on why or how it isn't the ideal path though.
That doesn't change the part of me that's worried for some lower-tier progamers though. :\
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On January 16 2012 19:09 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 19:06 hmunkey wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. Yeah, in the short-term. The thing is, time spent developing a career or getting an education generally pays off far more, but in the long-term. A progamer might make more than the average 18-23 year old, but if you add up the total amount earned in say 20 years, the average 18-23 year old will be leagues ahead. Of course, by average 18-23 year old, I mean the average educated person in that group. The point is being a progamer is a risk because it involves sacrificing your long-term future for a short burst of cash (which may not even come). Yeah they can go to school later in life, but let's be honest here -- no one is getting a job if they're 30, just graduated, and have no work experience. This is especially true in professional fields. Read up. Destiny cleaned carpets before this, incontrol worked in a gamestop and HD worked in McDonalds. Fruitdealer sold fruit at his parents shop. The pro Sc2 world is not full of would be Doctors, Lawyers and accountants.
sure it is not full of them. but you should read up yourself.
fruitdealer was selling fruit because his father was ill and he substituded him, so to say.
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noo not dragon 
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Ok here is a problem with the analogy between pro sports risks and esports risks. Many good highschool players get a SCHOLARSHIP to a good University, get a degree, and never go Pro. You cannot get a scholarship for esports. You completely postpone your education, and playing esports is of no benefit to it even if you wish to do both. The amount of players who go Pro straight out of highschool is incredibly small, and that is what you are comparing esports to. The risk in traditional sports is much much lower, and I would never advise any young person to put 100% effort into esports.
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On January 16 2012 17:39 Duravi wrote:
I understand that, but in some countries like here in the united states you are required to pay a minimum hourly wage (or equivalent salary) for a fulltime (40+ hours a week) job. So there is a bottom net which even the worst player can't fall below, assuming they are classified as a full-time employee.
"assuming they are classified as a full time employee" by that you mean, assuming that something would happen which isn't possible or true? do you know how jobs work?
if you're going pro in esports, you are self employed. there are no labor laws which protect you against anything, no one gives you health insurance except your parents or your wife, and your tax liability is probably worse in most countries than a typical job.
the only way there will be minimum wages for esports players is if they form a union which enforces it like other american pro sports, and that's not going to happen anytime soon.
On January 16 2012 17:58 Xeris wrote:
eSports isn't legal enough to enforce this. Yes technically, if you own a business here in the USA, you are legally obligated to pay minimum wage. You need special government / school board approval to be able to have unpaid internships (you must offer school credit, which you need approval from a school board to do). So technically, 99% of eSports jobs, like almost all of TL staff, is illegal.
It's a huge grey area though, the internet seems to not abide by the same laws an office building does. So it's really unrealistic to expect real world scenarios to apply to this very new, infant, industry.
technically is something you say if you know you are right. you mean to say arguably, which is something you say when you are pulling shit out of your ass that rings vaguely of truth. mobilising volunteer staff on websites which are run for profit is done in plenty of companies larger than tl or esports and the hammer has not come down on anyone yet.
On January 16 2012 17:17 Xeris wrote:
Yea of course, for 90% of people, it makes more sense to go to school, get a "normal" job, and make money that way. But if everyone thought that way, there's be only 10 progamers and SC2 would be really, really boring!
Plus, if eSports ever grows to become mainstream and players start making millions of dollars... then it WILL become a viable dream and it WILL become possible for players to retire off salary/tournament winnings.
It's that dream that drives people, I"m sure
i think the dream that drives people is that they get to do something they would do for free and get paid for it. that's why this website was around for a decade supporting a community of players for a game no one would pay a cent for outside of korea.
tens of thousands of people watch the major tournament that shows up each weekend. esports is already mainstream. suggesting it's a pipe dream until players are getting paid millions of dollars is ludicrous -- esports is pretty close to putting up numbers that rival the minor leagues of mainstream sports, or at least it will be once the industry realizes that it's much better to have 150 players making 30,000-50,000 a year rather than tripling the salaries of the three guys who are already making six figures while everyone else lives in their moms basement.
iirc, aa/aaa minor league baseball pay starts out at about 1500-2500/mo.
It's not generally the best decision to be a progamer unless you can reach the highest tier. If you're putting years into your game, you're letting the clock tick on the time you have left to actually get an education and have it be financially useful.
to this and all other arguments like it:
no one is getting into starcraft for the money or career prospects. every single player making decent money was a serious amateur gaming competitor in the years and games before and getting paid peanuts, if anything. if you love to play war3 or starcraft or cs or whatever so much you were one of the best players in the world, you'd be stupid or a coward not to jump at the chance to pay your bills doing the same thing for a few years unless you had a REALLY pressing reason not to (like, your baby sister has cancer and your parents are dead and you have to work three jobs to pay for chemo).
regardless, if you are smart enough and have the drive and persistence to be one of the best in the world at something, you won't starve. yeah, maybe a five or ten year handicap might prevent you from getting an MBA and rising in the ranks in a fortune 500, but if that was your idea of the good life you wouldn't have spent week after week playing starcraft 2 to begin with.
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Best of luck to dragon and golden, figured more people would say similar things considering the thread is 13 pages long but w.e
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On January 16 2012 19:31 Duravi wrote:
Ok here is a problem with the analogy between pro sports risks and esports risks. Many good highschool players get a SCHOLARSHIP to a good University, get a degree, and never go Pro. You cannot get a scholarship for esports. You completely postpone your education, and playing esports is of no benefit to it even if you wish to do both. The amount of players who go Pro straight out of highschool is incredibly small, and that is what you are comparing esports to.
Only in the US. It doesn't work like that in any other country.
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On January 16 2012 19:29 SevenShots wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 19:09 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 19:06 hmunkey wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. Yeah, in the short-term. The thing is, time spent developing a career or getting an education generally pays off far more, but in the long-term. A progamer might make more than the average 18-23 year old, but if you add up the total amount earned in say 20 years, the average 18-23 year old will be leagues ahead. Of course, by average 18-23 year old, I mean the average educated person in that group. The point is being a progamer is a risk because it involves sacrificing your long-term future for a short burst of cash (which may not even come). Yeah they can go to school later in life, but let's be honest here -- no one is getting a job if they're 30, just graduated, and have no work experience. This is especially true in professional fields. Read up. Destiny cleaned carpets before this, incontrol worked in a gamestop and HD worked in McDonalds. Fruitdealer sold fruit at his parents shop. The pro Sc2 world is not full of would be Doctors, Lawyers and accountants. sure it is not full of them. but you should read up yourself. fruitdealer was selling fruit because his father was ill and he substituded him, so to say.
Are you serious? Fruitdealer was a Brood War B Teamer and an alcoholic who lacked the dedication to make it despite being talented so he quit and worked for his parents (illness not withstanding). Sc2 was the best thing to ever happen to Fruit Dealer.
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On January 16 2012 19:04 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 18:59 Jojo131 wrote:On January 16 2012 18:51 Tnerb wrote:On January 16 2012 18:44 Inori wrote:On January 16 2012 18:31 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:26 Inori wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. You're forgetting that "your standard 18-23 year old" is getting actual real-world experience in a field of his choice. 10-15 years from now they will be working as lead specialists in that field. I can't imagine anyone still playing video games for a living at 35-40 (I mean there certainly will be somebody doing so, but it will be very RARE), so those pro-gamers 10-15 years from now will be way behind. Unless of course they play it smart and be both a pro-gamer and finish education (ex. qxc). On January 16 2012 18:19 Diamond wrote:On January 16 2012 18:15 Zzoram wrote:On January 16 2012 18:13 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:10 rUiNati0n wrote:
[quote]
I think many Players, though they might be grateful to be making a living doing something they love, would disagree on their situations being called great I don't know how anyone can not consider earning $20,000 a year or more from playing Starcraft to be a great situation. Because these people are screwing up their education and the opportunity cost of playing SC2 professionally is very high. These guys would almost certainly make a lot more money if they went to university and then got a normal job. When these guys finish SC2, many of them will not even have a high school diploma, and most won't have a university degree either, so it will be hard to get a good paying normal job after SC2. Every industry has a risk. Some people end up making it like HuK or Boxer, some people don't. However if people like HuK did not take said risks we would have no pros......... Yeah, difference is that in any given field (programming for examle) all you need to do is break top50% to start earning as much, if not more, than top 0.005% in gaming. Don't pretend that every pro gamer would otherwise be a Doctor, accountant, engineer etc.. I'm guessing most would either be working retail or something to do with IT. Which isn't exactly something where it matters that you get in there a few years late. I'll willing to bet that not a single pro gamer would have made more money this year than the top Sc2 players have done if they got a 'normal job' and certainly none would have made more than Mvp. Actually, with the amount and variety of skills required to break even $20k/y, I'm pretty sure they might as well be a doctor, accountant, engineer, etc. Not that hard. Difference between pro-gaming and real-life careers is that in real-life talented people earn shit-tons, but even when you're not talented and just put in decent hours into education/experience, you will be earning huge amounts. In pro-gaming it's literally all or nothing. TL;DR: 100% good salary vs 0.005% great salary. What you seem to be forgetting or just ignoring is that making the most money possible isn't the top priority for everyone. Some people (myself included) would be perfectly happy living on 20k a year doing something that they love. Kind of sad to me to see so many people caught up in making as much money as possible so that they can have "stuff" a fancy car that talks to them or some piece of jewelry that sparkles. Gotta have that 52" plasma cause it would just be impossible to enjoy life while watching a 32" tv. Or you know, hopes of supporting a family one day... Kinda hard to do on 20k/yr, not impossible though, but I imagine its kinda hard. Depends where you live. There's tons of kids in this thread who really don't know what the real world is like. Making 20k a year at 18-21 years old is extremely good in the UK and I imagine most of Europe nevermind how good it is in a country like Poland or Ukraine. Nevermind that while you earn 20k a year you're always only one good tournament a way from increasing that massively in only a weekend of play. Nor do any players live in the world of 1984 which a lot of people here seem to think where you're bound for life to the career you pick at 16. Pro gamers have their entire lives before them, nothing wrong at all in taking a few years out to get paid more than their friends for playing games and travelling the world. They're getting a great deal.
question: is making 20k a year good in the uk because it is 20k pounds? or is making 20k $ a year good as well?
Because I assume that the numbers that have been thrown around all have an (invisible) dollar sign behind them.
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On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
Depends where you live. There's tons of kids in this thread who really don't know what the real world is like. Making 20k a year at 18-21 years old is extremely good in the UK and I imagine most of Europe nevermind how good it is in a country like Poland or Ukraine. Nevermind that while you earn 20k a year you're always only one good tournament a way from increasing that massively in only a weekend of play.
Nor do any players live in the world of 1984 which a lot of people here seem to think where you're bound for life to the career you pick at 16.
Pro gamers have their entire lives before them, nothing wrong at all in taking a few years out to get paid more than their friends for playing games and travelling the world.
They're getting a great deal.
this.
the arguments in this thread are really weird. it's like the demographic i'd assume makes up tl has disappeared because everyone's immigrant grandma or guidance counselor stole their laptops and are typing replies.
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On January 16 2012 19:35 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 19:04 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:59 Jojo131 wrote:On January 16 2012 18:51 Tnerb wrote:On January 16 2012 18:44 Inori wrote:On January 16 2012 18:31 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:26 Inori wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. You're forgetting that "your standard 18-23 year old" is getting actual real-world experience in a field of his choice. 10-15 years from now they will be working as lead specialists in that field. I can't imagine anyone still playing video games for a living at 35-40 (I mean there certainly will be somebody doing so, but it will be very RARE), so those pro-gamers 10-15 years from now will be way behind. Unless of course they play it smart and be both a pro-gamer and finish education (ex. qxc). On January 16 2012 18:19 Diamond wrote:On January 16 2012 18:15 Zzoram wrote:On January 16 2012 18:13 Seraphone wrote:
[quote]
I don't know how anyone can not consider earning $20,000 a year or more from playing Starcraft to be a great situation. Because these people are screwing up their education and the opportunity cost of playing SC2 professionally is very high. These guys would almost certainly make a lot more money if they went to university and then got a normal job. When these guys finish SC2, many of them will not even have a high school diploma, and most won't have a university degree either, so it will be hard to get a good paying normal job after SC2. Every industry has a risk. Some people end up making it like HuK or Boxer, some people don't. However if people like HuK did not take said risks we would have no pros......... Yeah, difference is that in any given field (programming for examle) all you need to do is break top50% to start earning as much, if not more, than top 0.005% in gaming. Don't pretend that every pro gamer would otherwise be a Doctor, accountant, engineer etc.. I'm guessing most would either be working retail or something to do with IT. Which isn't exactly something where it matters that you get in there a few years late. I'll willing to bet that not a single pro gamer would have made more money this year than the top Sc2 players have done if they got a 'normal job' and certainly none would have made more than Mvp. Actually, with the amount and variety of skills required to break even $20k/y, I'm pretty sure they might as well be a doctor, accountant, engineer, etc. Not that hard. Difference between pro-gaming and real-life careers is that in real-life talented people earn shit-tons, but even when you're not talented and just put in decent hours into education/experience, you will be earning huge amounts. In pro-gaming it's literally all or nothing. TL;DR: 100% good salary vs 0.005% great salary. What you seem to be forgetting or just ignoring is that making the most money possible isn't the top priority for everyone. Some people (myself included) would be perfectly happy living on 20k a year doing something that they love. Kind of sad to me to see so many people caught up in making as much money as possible so that they can have "stuff" a fancy car that talks to them or some piece of jewelry that sparkles. Gotta have that 52" plasma cause it would just be impossible to enjoy life while watching a 32" tv. Or you know, hopes of supporting a family one day... Kinda hard to do on 20k/yr, not impossible though, but I imagine its kinda hard. Depends where you live. There's tons of kids in this thread who really don't know what the real world is like. Making 20k a year at 18-21 years old is extremely good in the UK and I imagine most of Europe nevermind how good it is in a country like Poland or Ukraine. Nevermind that while you earn 20k a year you're always only one good tournament a way from increasing that massively in only a weekend of play. Nor do any players live in the world of 1984 which a lot of people here seem to think where you're bound for life to the career you pick at 16. Pro gamers have their entire lives before them, nothing wrong at all in taking a few years out to get paid more than their friends for playing games and travelling the world. They're getting a great deal. question: is making 20k a year good in the uk because it is 20k pounds? or is making 20k $ a year good as well? Because I assume that the numbers that have been thrown around all have an (invisible) dollar sign behind them.
I don't know if he is talking pounds or dollars, but making $20k a year in the US is bad, and what unskilled labor can earn.
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On January 16 2012 19:35 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 19:04 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:59 Jojo131 wrote:On January 16 2012 18:51 Tnerb wrote:On January 16 2012 18:44 Inori wrote:On January 16 2012 18:31 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:26 Inori wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. You're forgetting that "your standard 18-23 year old" is getting actual real-world experience in a field of his choice. 10-15 years from now they will be working as lead specialists in that field. I can't imagine anyone still playing video games for a living at 35-40 (I mean there certainly will be somebody doing so, but it will be very RARE), so those pro-gamers 10-15 years from now will be way behind. Unless of course they play it smart and be both a pro-gamer and finish education (ex. qxc). On January 16 2012 18:19 Diamond wrote:On January 16 2012 18:15 Zzoram wrote:On January 16 2012 18:13 Seraphone wrote:
[quote]
I don't know how anyone can not consider earning $20,000 a year or more from playing Starcraft to be a great situation. Because these people are screwing up their education and the opportunity cost of playing SC2 professionally is very high. These guys would almost certainly make a lot more money if they went to university and then got a normal job. When these guys finish SC2, many of them will not even have a high school diploma, and most won't have a university degree either, so it will be hard to get a good paying normal job after SC2. Every industry has a risk. Some people end up making it like HuK or Boxer, some people don't. However if people like HuK did not take said risks we would have no pros......... Yeah, difference is that in any given field (programming for examle) all you need to do is break top50% to start earning as much, if not more, than top 0.005% in gaming. Don't pretend that every pro gamer would otherwise be a Doctor, accountant, engineer etc.. I'm guessing most would either be working retail or something to do with IT. Which isn't exactly something where it matters that you get in there a few years late. I'll willing to bet that not a single pro gamer would have made more money this year than the top Sc2 players have done if they got a 'normal job' and certainly none would have made more than Mvp. Actually, with the amount and variety of skills required to break even $20k/y, I'm pretty sure they might as well be a doctor, accountant, engineer, etc. Not that hard. Difference between pro-gaming and real-life careers is that in real-life talented people earn shit-tons, but even when you're not talented and just put in decent hours into education/experience, you will be earning huge amounts. In pro-gaming it's literally all or nothing. TL;DR: 100% good salary vs 0.005% great salary. What you seem to be forgetting or just ignoring is that making the most money possible isn't the top priority for everyone. Some people (myself included) would be perfectly happy living on 20k a year doing something that they love. Kind of sad to me to see so many people caught up in making as much money as possible so that they can have "stuff" a fancy car that talks to them or some piece of jewelry that sparkles. Gotta have that 52" plasma cause it would just be impossible to enjoy life while watching a 32" tv. Or you know, hopes of supporting a family one day... Kinda hard to do on 20k/yr, not impossible though, but I imagine its kinda hard. Depends where you live. There's tons of kids in this thread who really don't know what the real world is like. Making 20k a year at 18-21 years old is extremely good in the UK and I imagine most of Europe nevermind how good it is in a country like Poland or Ukraine. Nevermind that while you earn 20k a year you're always only one good tournament a way from increasing that massively in only a weekend of play. Nor do any players live in the world of 1984 which a lot of people here seem to think where you're bound for life to the career you pick at 16. Pro gamers have their entire lives before them, nothing wrong at all in taking a few years out to get paid more than their friends for playing games and travelling the world. They're getting a great deal. question: is making 20k a year good in the uk because it is 20k pounds? or is making 20k $ a year good as well? Because I assume that the numbers that have been thrown around all have an (invisible) dollar sign behind them.
It depends where you live. If you live in London then $20k is about minimum wage. $20k goes a lot further in anywhere other than London, especially in smaller citys.
£20k is okay in London and not bad at all outside of London.
Keep in mind that your standard graduate job in the UK starts at about £14-20k a year.
The exchange rate is really favourable for Pounds to dollars since you guys started spending all your money invading the world, so it makes $20k seem like less than it used to be and skews the comparison.
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On January 16 2012 19:15 hmunkey wrote:
It's not generally the best decision to be a progamer unless you can reach the highest tier. If you're putting years into your game, you're letting the clock tick on the time you have left to actually get an education and have it be financially useful.
The pro SC2 would could easily be full of would-be doctors, lawyers, etc. These are intelligent people who have shown they can dedicate themselves to a task. It's going to come back and hurt a lot of progamers in a few years if/when esports has either died down or they're unable to stay even at the mid/low-level of progaming. It sucks, but it's inevitable.
True, especially how the competition is exploding without the formation of many new teams and sponsors. For every new SC2 e-athlete more money is required, bigger tournaments, prize pools, and so on. Otherwise those at the bottom won't be able to survive.
Many organizations have been sizing down recently, so it looks like the valves are closing on e-sports. It's a scary thing, especially when you think how many gamers are jumping on the Starcraft II wave believing wealth and fame await them.
Sure if you go college, you lessen to chance of becoming e-famous. But at least you will have a foreseeable future.
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On January 16 2012 19:38 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 19:35 JustPassingBy wrote:On January 16 2012 19:04 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:59 Jojo131 wrote:On January 16 2012 18:51 Tnerb wrote:On January 16 2012 18:44 Inori wrote:On January 16 2012 18:31 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:26 Inori wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. You're forgetting that "your standard 18-23 year old" is getting actual real-world experience in a field of his choice. 10-15 years from now they will be working as lead specialists in that field. I can't imagine anyone still playing video games for a living at 35-40 (I mean there certainly will be somebody doing so, but it will be very RARE), so those pro-gamers 10-15 years from now will be way behind. Unless of course they play it smart and be both a pro-gamer and finish education (ex. qxc). On January 16 2012 18:19 Diamond wrote:On January 16 2012 18:15 Zzoram wrote:
[quote]
Because these people are screwing up their education and the opportunity cost of playing SC2 professionally is very high. These guys would almost certainly make a lot more money if they went to university and then got a normal job.
When these guys finish SC2, many of them will not even have a high school diploma, and most won't have a university degree either, so it will be hard to get a good paying normal job after SC2.
Every industry has a risk. Some people end up making it like HuK or Boxer, some people don't. However if people like HuK did not take said risks we would have no pros......... Yeah, difference is that in any given field (programming for examle) all you need to do is break top50% to start earning as much, if not more, than top 0.005% in gaming. Don't pretend that every pro gamer would otherwise be a Doctor, accountant, engineer etc.. I'm guessing most would either be working retail or something to do with IT. Which isn't exactly something where it matters that you get in there a few years late. I'll willing to bet that not a single pro gamer would have made more money this year than the top Sc2 players have done if they got a 'normal job' and certainly none would have made more than Mvp. Actually, with the amount and variety of skills required to break even $20k/y, I'm pretty sure they might as well be a doctor, accountant, engineer, etc. Not that hard. Difference between pro-gaming and real-life careers is that in real-life talented people earn shit-tons, but even when you're not talented and just put in decent hours into education/experience, you will be earning huge amounts. In pro-gaming it's literally all or nothing. TL;DR: 100% good salary vs 0.005% great salary. What you seem to be forgetting or just ignoring is that making the most money possible isn't the top priority for everyone. Some people (myself included) would be perfectly happy living on 20k a year doing something that they love. Kind of sad to me to see so many people caught up in making as much money as possible so that they can have "stuff" a fancy car that talks to them or some piece of jewelry that sparkles. Gotta have that 52" plasma cause it would just be impossible to enjoy life while watching a 32" tv. Or you know, hopes of supporting a family one day... Kinda hard to do on 20k/yr, not impossible though, but I imagine its kinda hard. Depends where you live. There's tons of kids in this thread who really don't know what the real world is like. Making 20k a year at 18-21 years old is extremely good in the UK and I imagine most of Europe nevermind how good it is in a country like Poland or Ukraine. Nevermind that while you earn 20k a year you're always only one good tournament a way from increasing that massively in only a weekend of play. Nor do any players live in the world of 1984 which a lot of people here seem to think where you're bound for life to the career you pick at 16. Pro gamers have their entire lives before them, nothing wrong at all in taking a few years out to get paid more than their friends for playing games and travelling the world. They're getting a great deal. question: is making 20k a year good in the uk because it is 20k pounds? or is making 20k $ a year good as well? Because I assume that the numbers that have been thrown around all have an (invisible) dollar sign behind them. It depends where you live. If you live in London then $20k is about minimum wage. $20k goes a lot further in anywhere other than London, especially in smaller citys. £20k is okay in London and not bad at all outside of London. Keep in mind that your standard graduate job in the UK starts at about £14-20k a year.
Graduate of what? Even humanities major in the US make an average over $30k a year
Source:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/12/pf/college/salaries/index.htm
Average college grad in the US makes over $40k a year starting. Engineers as much as $70k+
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EPT
