|
On January 18 2012 21:02 Squeegy wrote:
Nawe:
1. Nope. Results disagree. There are probably more WC3 foreigners though but that is just because there actually were more players.
2. But I did follow the scene.
3. By competetive I mean the talent pool. That is Grubby and Moon were so dominating because there weren't that many players of high enough talent.
Fams:
1. Actually, I mentioned them just once. I don't see your point though. Stephano and Naniwa are quite a bit better than Tod, Grubby or Moon. We were talking about WC3 foreigners results. If you wish to use the former, BW foreigner's will outshine them quite clearly.
2. I am not sure what your point is with this either. I don't think anyone of them would make a big difference in the Korean SC2 scene. There are so many known and unknown BW Koreans that are as good or better.
3. I didn't say it wasn't competetive. That is of course rather subjective. I am saying it wasn't anywhere near as competetive as BW. Insulting or not, that is what I believe. You may find it ironic that I found your comment about Moon dominating SC2 quite insulting too. (I have not seen any BW professional ever mention Moon though. Well, Nada maybe, through acquantaince.)
4. I think that is quite the overstatement. Boxer is someone you could say that about. But that is because he is far more than just a gamer. Moon was of course very popular, succesful and idol to many. But I can comprehend that.
You are an idiot.
User was warned for this post
|
Moon is a player i really like because his games are exciting. I hope that Fnatic can give him the support and practise partners to let Moon become a more robust and solid player, without making him lose his unique and cool moments.
|
Well not real suprise there, grats to Moon and Fnatic. I think Moon will do rather well in Sc2.
|
Always enjoyed Moon's sc2 games while he wasn't playing full-time, now that he is I'm sure he'll play fantastic. Some of his unit compositions (Ultralisk/Bane/Muta) are so off the wall, I love it. If he gets to play with some good practice partners consistently he'll certainly get to Code S, he has too much talent not to.
|
Wtf is with you guys - moon has switched to sc2 fulltime - as a moon and starcraft2 fan I think this is awesome. All this comparing bw and wc3 and sc2 and different players from each is pointless.
I look forward to seeing what he will accomplish now that he is full-time. How successful he will be is anyone's guess - and not something worth debating.
|
On January 18 2012 21:02 Squeegy wrote:
Nawe:
1. Nope. Results disagree. There are probably more WC3 foreigners though but that is just because there actually were more players.
2. But I did follow the scene.
3. By competetive I mean the talent pool. That is Grubby and Moon were so dominating because there weren't that many players of high enough talent.
Fams:
1. Actually, I mentioned them just once. I don't see your point though. Stephano and Naniwa are quite a bit better than Tod, Grubby or Moon. We were talking about WC3 foreigners results. If you wish to use the former, BW foreigner's will outshine them quite clearly.
2. I am not sure what your point is with this either. I don't think anyone of them would make a big difference in the Korean SC2 scene. There are so many known and unknown BW Koreans that are as good or better.
3. I didn't say it wasn't competetive. That is of course rather subjective. I am saying it wasn't anywhere near as competetive as BW. Insulting or not, that is what I believe. You may find it ironic that I found your comment about Moon dominating SC2 quite insulting too. (I have not seen any BW professional ever mention Moon though. Well, Nada maybe, through acquantaince.)
4. I think that is quite the overstatement. Boxer is someone you could say that about. But that is because he is far more than just a gamer. Moon was of course very popular, succesful and idol to many. But I can comprehend that.
Even though I was never much of a WC3 fan... Talent means very little in the grand scheme of things. Moon practiced and he practiced hard. Harder than most BW A-teamers from everything I've read/heard. If he had the same dedication he had in WC3 during his rise to the top in BW I don't think it's ludicrous to say he would have been a top-tier BW player as well. The fact of the matter is that we'll never know - so it's kind of pointless to debate.
|
On January 18 2012 21:02 Squeegy wrote:
Nawe:
1. Nope. Results disagree. There are probably more WC3 foreigners though but that is just because there actually were more players.
2. But I did follow the scene.
3. By competetive I mean the talent pool. That is Grubby and Moon were so dominating because there weren't that many players of high enough talent.
Fams:
1. Actually, I mentioned them just once. I don't see your point though. Stephano and Naniwa are quite a bit better than Tod, Grubby or Moon. We were talking about WC3 foreigners results. If you wish to use the former, BW foreigner's will outshine them quite clearly.
2. I am not sure what your point is with this either. I don't think anyone of them would make a big difference in the Korean SC2 scene. There are so many known and unknown BW Koreans that are as good or better.
3. I didn't say it wasn't competetive. That is of course rather subjective. I am saying it wasn't anywhere near as competetive as BW. Insulting or not, that is what I believe. You may find it ironic that I found your comment about Moon dominating SC2 quite insulting too. (I have not seen any BW professional ever mention Moon though. Well, Nada maybe, through acquantaince.)
4. I think that is quite the overstatement. Boxer is someone you could say that about. But that is because he is far more than just a gamer. Moon was of course very popular, succesful and idol to many. But I can comprehend that.
Stubborn in stupidity, I cant imagine other name for you. 1)Where are proof's from your side? Its easy to say results disagree. Write me why Ret,Dimaga,Bratok,Whitera had better results than Kas,Stephano,titan,Satiini,Thorzain,Naniwa or others.
2)Yes but those players didnt made impact on wc3 scene aswell. Thats why I think Moon,Grubby or ToD will make it for sure. With proper korean training. I didnt saw any other top wc3 player from korea competing, as some guy previously mentioned and listed
3)You are saying, and what is facts are 2 unrelated threads. I could say bw is crap because I never play it and that wc3 is greatest RTS ever but I'm not ignorant fool as you are showing you are. So better get some facts or gtfo. You are only owning yourself in this thread.
|
I hope Moon has the time and the open mind to do this well.
I remember the infamous baneling detonation blunder, it was obvious how little time Moon spent on the game back then. Still, despite mistakes like that, he competed with the elite. Pretty amazing.
|
I hope moon does well now , he will be better because he will practice SC2 only and Zerg is much more stronger than it was when he played on the GSL !
good luck moon !
|
I like Moon, he has a lot of cute tricks but his raw mechanics are weak and need a hell of a lot of work. He should do well in foreign tournaments but he's well short of Code S level.
Lots of delusional Wc3 fanboys in this thread who think Grubby and Moon stack up to Flash. They are good for a laugh.
On January 18 2012 22:32 tapk69 wrote:
I hope moon does well now , he will be better because he will practice SC2 only and Zerg is much more stronger than it was when he played on the GSL !
good luck moon !
He won't be better because standards have leaped ahead of Moon. Last time he played GSL it was mostly SCV all in's and he could keep up while training part time. Nowadays you have extremely refined players like MMA, Nestea, DRG, MVP, Leenock etc.. and Moon has so much catching up to do.
If he makes it into Code S in 2012 that will be an extremely good result for him.
|
On January 18 2012 22:06 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 21:02 Squeegy wrote:
Nawe:
1. Nope. Results disagree. There are probably more WC3 foreigners though but that is just because there actually were more players.
2. But I did follow the scene.
3. By competetive I mean the talent pool. That is Grubby and Moon were so dominating because there weren't that many players of high enough talent.
Fams:
1. Actually, I mentioned them just once. I don't see your point though. Stephano and Naniwa are quite a bit better than Tod, Grubby or Moon. We were talking about WC3 foreigners results. If you wish to use the former, BW foreigner's will outshine them quite clearly.
2. I am not sure what your point is with this either. I don't think anyone of them would make a big difference in the Korean SC2 scene. There are so many known and unknown BW Koreans that are as good or better.
3. I didn't say it wasn't competetive. That is of course rather subjective. I am saying it wasn't anywhere near as competetive as BW. Insulting or not, that is what I believe. You may find it ironic that I found your comment about Moon dominating SC2 quite insulting too. (I have not seen any BW professional ever mention Moon though. Well, Nada maybe, through acquantaince.)
4. I think that is quite the overstatement. Boxer is someone you could say that about. But that is because he is far more than just a gamer. Moon was of course very popular, succesful and idol to many. But I can comprehend that. Even though I was never much of a WC3 fan... Talent means very little in the grand scheme of things. Moon practiced and he practiced hard. Harder than most BW A-teamers from everything I've read/heard. If he had the same dedication he had in WC3 during his rise to the top in BW I don't think it's ludicrous to say he would have been a top-tier BW player as well. The fact of the matter is that we'll never know - so it's kind of pointless to debate.
Talent means very much. That is why we have plenty of people who play SC2 all day long and they are not even close to be able to be top players. That is why Huk could never have had the success in BW he has had in SC2. But talent alone won't lead people very far. It is the combination of talent and practise that makes the difference. Also, I doubt Moon practised harder than most BW A-teamers. I've certainly never heard anything that would hint at that. In fact, I think it is quite difficult to actually physically be able to do it. We also will never know what (if anything) happened before the Big Bang. I don't think it is pointless to debate that, do you?
Nawe:
1. You can find the proof by going to liquipedia and simply going through the list of tournament results. Start counting the amount of BW players doing well and WC3 players doing well. Overall you will find them represented in quite equal amounts. My guess is that you will find some patches where WC3 players did clearly better and some where BW players did clearly better (particularly early on in SC2).
2. I don't think Stephano needed any Korean training to take out Tod or Grubby. Neither of which, I might add, have been very impressive. Even despite Korean training when it comes to Grubby. If I were you, I'd use players such as Stephano and Naniwa as the ones representing WC3 simply because they have indeed been very good in the foreigner scene. I actually believe even Grubby said in his recent interview that SC2 is more competetive than WC3 and that he will not be able to reproduce his success due to this.
3. Yes, I like to think that I own myself.
|
I think the key is that Moon's work ethic dwarfs any current or past BW pro's...he should succeed.
|
I do think SCII has much more talent then WC3 had, however the training intensity lays just way higher for a bigger amount of people. In WC3 there were a few Koreans, ToD, Grubby and a few other who trained each day for 8 hours+, now in SC2 there are like 200+ persons in Europe training this way, perhaps 100+ people in the US, 400+ people in Korea.
This is what makes the competition so much harder currently, and there is no doubt Moon got quite a bit of talent and with the same amount practise as the most other players he should be able to reach the top....
|
On January 18 2012 22:58 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 22:06 Skwid1g wrote:On January 18 2012 21:02 Squeegy wrote:
Nawe:
1. Nope. Results disagree. There are probably more WC3 foreigners though but that is just because there actually were more players.
2. But I did follow the scene.
3. By competetive I mean the talent pool. That is Grubby and Moon were so dominating because there weren't that many players of high enough talent.
Fams:
1. Actually, I mentioned them just once. I don't see your point though. Stephano and Naniwa are quite a bit better than Tod, Grubby or Moon. We were talking about WC3 foreigners results. If you wish to use the former, BW foreigner's will outshine them quite clearly.
2. I am not sure what your point is with this either. I don't think anyone of them would make a big difference in the Korean SC2 scene. There are so many known and unknown BW Koreans that are as good or better.
3. I didn't say it wasn't competetive. That is of course rather subjective. I am saying it wasn't anywhere near as competetive as BW. Insulting or not, that is what I believe. You may find it ironic that I found your comment about Moon dominating SC2 quite insulting too. (I have not seen any BW professional ever mention Moon though. Well, Nada maybe, through acquantaince.)
4. I think that is quite the overstatement. Boxer is someone you could say that about. But that is because he is far more than just a gamer. Moon was of course very popular, succesful and idol to many. But I can comprehend that. Even though I was never much of a WC3 fan... Talent means very little in the grand scheme of things. Moon practiced and he practiced hard. Harder than most BW A-teamers from everything I've read/heard. If he had the same dedication he had in WC3 during his rise to the top in BW I don't think it's ludicrous to say he would have been a top-tier BW player as well. The fact of the matter is that we'll never know - so it's kind of pointless to debate. Talent means very much. That is why we have plenty of people who play SC2 all day long and they are not even close to be able to be top players. That is why Huk could never have had the success in BW he has had in SC2. But talent alone won't lead people very far. It is the combination of talent and practise that makes the difference. Also, I doubt Moon practised harder than most BW A-teamers. I've certainly never heard anything that would hint at that. In fact, I think it is quite difficult to actually physically be able to do it. We also will never know what (if anything) happened before the Big Bang. I don't think it is pointless to debate that, do you? Nawe: 1. You can find the proof by going to liquipedia and simply going through the list of tournament results. Start counting the amount of BW players doing well and WC3 players doing well. Overall you will find them represented in quite equal amounts. My guess is that you will find some patches where WC3 players did clearly better and some where BW players did clearly better (particularly early on in SC2). 2. I don't think Stephano needed any Korean training to take out Tod or Grubby. Neither of which, I might add, have been very impressive. Even despite Korean training when it comes to Grubby. If I were you, I'd use players such as Stephano and Naniwa as the ones representing WC3 simply because they have indeed been very good in the foreigner scene. I actually believe even Grubby said in his recent interview that SC2 is more competetive than WC3 and that he will not be able to reproduce his success due to this. 3. Yes, I like to think that I own myself.
If you made a list of the best 20 players in the world at the absolute best 2/3 of them would be Wc3 players (Polt, Stephano) and I'd argue none of them are Warcraft 3 players.
Sure Wc3 players do well in Europe but that's not the highest level of the game. Players who were good in Wc3 like Grubby, Moon, Tod, Sase or the lesser players like Thorzain, Naniwa, Check have achieved very little at the games highest level. In Europe you have ex top class Wc3 players playing on a similar level to ex Brood War players who were way, way short of even making a BW B team.
Now obviously this is in large part because of the Korean factor. But if Wc3 players are/were as skilled as Brood War players like you claim, why have some of the absolute best Wc3 players been raped in Sc2 by a bunch of BW practice partners, part timers and B teamers?
|
On January 18 2012 23:00 Jeremyy wrote:
I think the key is that Moon's work ethic dwarfs any current or past BW pro's...he should succeed.
So he practices 18 hours a day or something?
|
On January 18 2012 23:00 Jeremyy wrote:
I think the key is that Moon's work ethic dwarfs any current or past BW pro's...he should succeed.
From what I understand he practises around the same time as BW progamers do. I would be interested to read if there are any interviews or such that go deeper into his training regime.
|
On January 18 2012 23:00 Jeremyy wrote:
I think the key is that Moon's work ethic dwarfs any current or past BW pro's...he should succeed.
This is impossible.
|
On January 18 2012 23:20 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 23:00 Jeremyy wrote:
I think the key is that Moon's work ethic dwarfs any current or past BW pro's...he should succeed. From what I understand he practises around the same time as BW progamers do. I would be interested to read if there are any interviews or such that go deeper into his training regime.
There was a documentary with Sky and he was talking about the time he stayed in the same house as Moon to practice.
He was shocked when he saw Moons schedule, as Sky himself already was known to be a practice machine. Anyways, Sky said when he went to bed around at midnight, Moon was still playing and when he woke up at 7 am or something, Moon was already up and practicing again 
|
Just as with Grubby, you've always seen the potential in Moon's gameplay.
Looking forward to see him in a lot of western tournaments in the future.
|
On January 18 2012 23:19 SC2NeCro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 23:00 Jeremyy wrote:
I think the key is that Moon's work ethic dwarfs any current or past BW pro's...he should succeed. So he practices 18 hours a day or something? He used to. Probs cannot now with kid and wife.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
