On January 03 2012 09:58 Marconos wrote: You options are actually incorrect.
I'm 40 years old, still play SC2. The cognitive part of the game is so easy for me. It's getting my fingers and hands to move fast enough to keep up that is the problem. I have early arthritis in my finger joints and it makes a big difference. Cognitive is not an issue.
Err... Then that sort of implies your choice would be the "I'm getting older but haven't noticed cognitive decline". The poll inquires about your experience (good or bad) with cognitive decline -- not your experience with arthritis, joint pains, constipation, broken heart, or any other unrelated things that might ail you
Jokes aside, you bring up a good point about physical limitations on playing.
On January 03 2012 09:30 Kaien wrote: Nestea is 29 BoxeR is 32 Nada is 27 July is 25 Whitera is 31
Im only 20, so i cant tell from personal exeperiance, but when we look at the age of some pro players. i think we can conclude that your age will not pervent you from becoming an sc2 celeb
The talent pool for SC2 is so abysmally small and the players so relatively mediocre to what the world has to offer that players will be able to excel at advanced ages. If the talent pool was remotely as large as Basketball, Soccer, Football, baseball, etc I believe you'd see the domination of younger players and the slow regression of those past their 30's-- the same with all sports.
Unlike Chess, which is solely a cerebral game (you could make your moves with your feet if you wanted to), SC2 requires a remarkable amount of reaction time and coordination. It is proven that both of these decline with age. The shelf life for a SC2 pro gamer will definitely be longer than other sports, but do you honestly think a 50 year old could play this game at a pro level? Hell, the oldest people in our community are in their early 30's-- and white ra, boxer, and nestea aren't currently known for their insane mechanics and micro, but their decision making.
Yes. Or do you think every professional pianist at age 50 is no longer able to play technically demanding repertoire?
On January 03 2012 09:30 Kaien wrote: Nestea is 29 BoxeR is 32 Nada is 27 July is 25 Whitera is 31
Im only 20, so i cant tell from personal exeperiance, but when we look at the age of some pro players. i think we can conclude that your age will not pervent you from becoming an sc2 celeb
The talent pool for SC2 is so abysmally small and the players so relatively mediocre to what the world has to offer that players will be able to excel at advanced ages. If the talent pool was remotely as large as Basketball, Soccer, Football, baseball, etc I believe you'd see the domination of younger players and the slow regression of those past their 30's-- the same with all sports.
Unlike Chess, which is solely a cerebral game (you could make your moves with your feet if you wanted to), SC2 requires a remarkable amount of reaction time and coordination. It is proven that both of these decline with age. The shelf life for a SC2 pro gamer will definitely be longer than other sports, but do you honestly think a 50 year old could play this game at a pro level? Hell, the oldest people in our community are in their early 30's-- and white ra, boxer, and nestea aren't currently known for their insane mechanics and micro, but their decision making.
A big factor in MLB, NFL, and NHL is injuries and the accumulation of their damage. RSI is probably a large contributor in people "losing a step" in their micro rather than age. It seems like players like BoxeR and Nestea are absolutely godly when it comes to the cognitive side of the game. BoxeR definitely lacks the speed he once has, which I'm sure is part age thing, but he also has RSI as far as I know and I would think that has more an impact on his ability to play as compared to the fact that he's 32.
If anything, Boxer is faster than he ever was. I would say he's at the highest of his mechanical abilities right now. It was stated numerous times during his BW time that at the end of his career he was the best boxer, but others were simply better.
A big problem i assume between older and younger generations are the shifts that take place in games. The older you get, the more difficult it gets to change your grown habits. Starcraft evolves all the time, also mechanically in terms of how you execute stuff. If you've played Starcraft for 7 years for instance, and now your 30, and you've never used camera keys, you most likely won't start, even though it's more efficient. Newer, younger generations will adapt MUCH faster to such changes, or more likely, start already with them. So they're more efficient. Also the passion / motivation is another key issue. But just in terms of hand / eye coordination i don't think you get necessarily worse, but you'll get slower in adapting your style / habits as well as reacting to unknown situations. It's a common concept that the older you get, the more you think within a certain box.
I am 27...and I am a plat toss.and i feel the only reason why i am plat is because i play like a max of 30 games or 50 games per season on 1v1..thts it...otherwise i think if i prac..i cud atleast be low masters.. but i think if ur under 35...i dnt think u wud b slow unless u dnt exercise and have a decent diet
Its been said time and time again, age is not affecting people's ability to play. Honestly 30 is not old and your brain is not rotting. Its more to do with people's responsibilities switching away from games and onto other things. When you return to the game with less practice time of course you are going to have slower reaction times.
I don't see an issue with cognitive decline until you get a neurological illness. As op wrote, if you eat healthy and exercise your brain, you won't have issues for a long time.
Furthermore, you just need to train your muscle memory like a pianist does and the rest is decision making.
I'm 26-27, Master, and getting better every day and can't see any limit yet. Personally I think the calmness and analytical skills I learned in the last years are far more important than hyperactively clicking the shit out of everything.
you know you can train your brain and your body ... if you do that you will be at full potential until maybe 70th unless some illness or an accident affects that. But competitive sports in general are really unhealthy for the body. And i think your hands will fail before your brain does when you play computer games. The real problems gamer face is real life, a job takes away alot of time and unlike school for example you don't train your brain in most jobs. Also when you move away from home you have to take care of the household. The free time is cut, that you don't have enough time to train like you used to, thats why people get slower. Well and because the metabolism changes a bit, so you need to be a bit more extra healthy.
That being said gamers only get slower if they play less and thats what happens in most cases. Right now there are already gamers that are in their 40th and played games since turrican. And they are far away from having issues playing games. So don't worry, you can play games forever, but better read up on RSI if you don't do any physical sports, not something you wanna get.
I'm pretty sure that this whole topic is a hoax i.e. bullshit. I've never read about any study that would suggest a decline in videogameskill as you grow older.
Look at that guy, he's showing amazing precision and speed at the age of 70. What you guys are talking about suggests that this is impossible. I think it's more of a scapegoat thing, age is always an easy excuse. Bad at videogames because you're 30? Come on, people climb everest at 70.
I have noticed my apm slipped a good bit, not sure I believe it's due to age so much as time off between BW and Sc2, was ~200apm BW, now ~120apm Sc2, I don't cycle as much as I should and generally don't spam mouse clicks for movements, only in fights.
Senior citizens may be more mentally capable than previously thought
Not all health studies released on senior citizens are negative, as recent research from Ohio State University reveals the elderly can be as fast as their younger peers when it comes to accomplishing mental tasks.
Historically, children and the elderly have slower response times when it comes to making quick decisions in certain situations, but recent research implies that the slower response could be a conscious decision as seniors are wise enough to emphasize accuracy over speed.
“Many people think that it is just natural for older people’s brains to slow down as they age, but we’re finding that isn’t always true,” said Roger Ratcliff, professor of psychology at OSU and co-author of the studies.
The contrary is true in some cases, as healthy senior citizens can be trained to respond faster in some decision-making situations without risking their accuracy, meaning their cognitive skills are not worse than younger adults'.
What this article is saying, is 1) we don't know as much as we think we do on the cognitive development of brains, and 2) accuracy over speed is a trait people pick up as they get older.
I don't think you're severely disadvantaged when you're older because of handspeed or something.
The big difference is the amount of time you can sink in. When SC1 was hot, I was in university and played it 6-7 hours a day. As a result, I was pretty good at it by (C+ Iccup) . Now that SC2 is the thing, I have a wife, a lovely 2-year old daughter and a job. There is no way I can commit the time I need to commit if I want to get to GM. My Brood War mechanics is what keeps me in high Diamond, but I really have no clue about timings and all those little important things that stuff Tastosis and Day9 like to talk about. I just make drones and build stuff.
On January 03 2012 10:40 PepperoniPiZZa wrote: I'm pretty sure that this whole topic is a hoax i.e. bullshit. I've never read about any study that would suggest a decline in videogameskill as you grow older.
Look at that guy, he's showing amazing precision and speed at the age of 70. What you guys are talking about suggests that this is impossible. I think it's more of a scapegoat thing, age is always an easy excuse. Bad at videogames because you're 30? Come on, people climb everest at 70.
That's not at all what the topic says. Heh, I'm not sure how many more times I need to snake it into the OP that cognitive decline is different among people, and that some people show no cognitive decline for a long long time. Maybe the 70 year old dude in your video hasn't experienced cognitive decline? That's great for him, but it doesn't mean the topic is "a hoax", whatever you meant by that. If you think the data in the topic drawn from various sources (Nature, etc) is bullshit, that's okay I guess. Nowhere in there do I suggest age as the scapegoat for loss of ability. Am I not arguing the opposite -- that although cognitive decline is real, it probably doesn't impact SC2 success?
Age is usually something that (in progaming, and some sports) is looked at as - the older you get, the less physically able you become. But so many people in history have defied this: Michael Jordan, Cal Ripken Jr., Jackie Chan even (filming movies into his 50s). I think there is a misconception when it comes to age and gaming. Yes it is a young man's game, but not for the reason that they're physically unable. It's more that the older you get, the more real life responsibilities you need to own up to- girlfriends, families, financial burdens, long term thinking. A 15 year old is less likely to have to pay bills, support others (in fact they get supported in most cases), have relationships obligations (serious ones). The major difference is younger people have more time to put into a craft.
The older you get, the more guilty you feel about playing.
What age does affect is the ability to learn something new (which is why it's easier to learn a new language when you are young rather than when you are old).
Hmm, I will just aim to beat the system and keep going up until I hit 90 and then I can relax a bit =) As always with these population means there are people who increase in the ability instead of the decline. From 25 to 90 may be kind of unlikely but... at least most of the tests.
I would be very interested to see some of the sources. Do you know if there are any longitudinal studies that have looked at cognitive decline (and not only in the very elderly)? Would be interesting. There are a lot of possible sources of variance from the sample collection like generational aspects and differences in medication, access to food etc instead of biological aging.
Regarding the mice I would like to add that just having fun and being stimulated appears to have a big effect on "brain health" as well. Basically mice with access to a playground with tunnels and stuff have more well developed brains compared to those just the usual boring labcages (that could possibly make the brain of anyone shrink in size). So that and other things like mentally challenging stuff for elderly showing good effects makes me think that stimulation is a very important thing.
Oh and nice post, always nice with some pictures and interesting stuff.
I think there are many reasons there is this stigma attached to people slumping or getting worse around 25.
First, mandatory military service for koreans basically = gg to their familiar practice/training hours and schedule = slump.
On top of that, many people are reevaluating their life at that age, getting jobs, getting married, and life simply gets in the way of playing a game for 14 hours a day.
I have no doubt that mid 20's to even 30's can be very successful at gaming, it really comes down to practice, time investment and mindset.
On January 03 2012 08:29 ThatGuy89 wrote: Look at whitera. He plays slow, he knows he does, hes even said so himself a few times. But if you know the game well enough and know what you're doing, make good decisions and what not, speed doesnt matter imo.
As long as youre not on like 20 apm then it shouldnt matter. I think its more of a mental game then physically playing, if you get me
speed does matter though....look at whitera's tournament performance/results. He isnt exactly winning any titles lately in major tournaments. whitera is good dont get me wrong. hes a great player and im a big fan but his speed is holding him back imo
EPT
